2022 ZiPS Projections: Cleveland Guardians
After having typically appeared in the hallowed pages of Baseball Think Factory, Dan Szymborski’s ZiPS projections have now been released at FanGraphs for a decade. The exercise continues this offseason. Below are the projections for the Cleveland Guardians.
Batters
The overlying theme here is a state of averageness, and that’s not so bad. For a number of years, Cleveland’s outfield situation has been rather bleak, generally toward the bottom of the league, with little investment to make it better. This is the first time in a while that ZiPS sees some hope there. No, the Guardians didn’t pull a 180 and sign Starling Marte and Michael Conforto, but the likely players manning the outfield have better projections than most of those used out there in recent years. The most notable are Myles Straw and Steven Kwan, both of whom get projections that, in an entire season, put them a skosh above average. ZiPS doesn’t think they likely get any surprise star performances, but it’s a better situation.
The two likely meaningful breakouts in the roster are Nolan Jones and George Valera. ZiPS is happy with the latter’s entrance into the high minors, but there is concern about the former; that ceiling gets a lot lower if he doesn’t improve on 2021 and an unexciting .787 OPS for Triple-A Columbus. One can’t blame the ankle injury that ended Jones’ season, either, which was significant enough that he couldn’t play through it.
The middle infield is a similar story as the outfield. ZiPS sees more upside remaining for Andrés Giménez, and Amed Rosario is far from a problem. First base is a weak spot, with the computer holding out little hope for Bobby Bradley. It was a lot easier to excuse his underwhelming numbers when he was 22, but he’ll be 26 next season, and he didn’t even hit Triple-A pitchers all that convincingly last year. Speaking of players with offense that displeased ZiPS, let’s just say “Austin Hedges” and leave it there.
I was quite surprised to see a very aggressive projection for Richie Palacios, but Steamer appears to be on board here as well. Add in Gabriel Arias, and Cleveland actually may have some middle infield surplus they can trade to upgrade elsewhere.
José Ramírez is, of course, José Ramírez. After two calendar years of MVP-type numbers, I think we can safely stop worrying about that ugly first half of 2019. He is the best thing about the Guardians’ offense, and even if he’s at the age where there’s probably not another gear remaining, that would be kind of greedy.
Pitchers
Shane Bieber didn’t win a second AL Cy Young award, but he was in the hunt until shoulder pain cost him half a season. Luckily, there was no serious damage at the time, but with Cleveland falling out of playoff contention when the White Sox pulled away for good, there thankfully wasn’t any need to push his return too quickly; he came back in September, but the team was rightfully very conservative about his use. He’s the José Ramírez of the pitching staff, the shining light in the field of averageness.
ZiPS and Steamer differ on Cal Quantrill, with ZiPS the more optimistic this time, pegging Q as a solid No. 2 starter behind Bieber. The rest of the rotation is generally unimpressive but respectable, with a lot of options in case of emergency. After Zach Plesac, Triston McKenzie, and Aaron Civale, ZiPS sees five or six options that wouldn’t entirely fall on their face. It’s most intrigued by Peyton Battenfield, a 2019 draftee out of Oklahoma State who didn’t get significant professional time until this year thanks to the “not-so-fun size” 2020 season. He shot up very quickly through the minors, and if he had more professional time to look at, ZiPS would be even more optimistic than it is.
Like the rest of the team, the bullpen is middle-of-the-pack, with two big highlights at the top. ZiPS is all-in on Emmanuel Clase, and he is likely to have one of the (if not the) best ERA+ projections for any pitcher this year; last year’s was Aroldis Chapman at 170. ZiPS isn’t quite as ecstatic about James Karinchak, but that’s near the practical ceiling of what you can expect from a pitcher who walks five or six batters per nine innings. If he cuts off a walk or two, his upside is frightening.

Ballpark graphic courtesy Eephus League. Depth charts constructed by way of those listed here.
| Player | B | Age | PO | PA | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | SB | CS |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| José Ramírez | B | 29 | 3B | 594 | 513 | 96 | 141 | 34 | 4 | 32 | 102 | 70 | 83 | 25 | 5 |
| Andrés Giménez | L | 23 | SS | 479 | 437 | 58 | 110 | 22 | 3 | 15 | 47 | 22 | 115 | 20 | 5 |
| Myles Straw | R | 27 | CF | 603 | 539 | 79 | 146 | 24 | 3 | 4 | 39 | 58 | 117 | 31 | 6 |
| Franmil Reyes | R | 26 | RF | 524 | 470 | 66 | 122 | 20 | 1 | 34 | 94 | 47 | 164 | 3 | 1 |
| Gabriel Arias | R | 22 | SS | 542 | 500 | 65 | 131 | 27 | 3 | 14 | 53 | 31 | 134 | 5 | 1 |
| Amed Rosario | R | 26 | SS | 630 | 591 | 80 | 163 | 28 | 7 | 14 | 65 | 32 | 125 | 17 | 4 |
| Steven Kwan | L | 24 | CF | 465 | 425 | 58 | 122 | 19 | 5 | 10 | 43 | 34 | 52 | 7 | 4 |
| Richie Palacios | L | 25 | 2B | 441 | 390 | 60 | 105 | 25 | 3 | 8 | 40 | 41 | 79 | 14 | 2 |
| George Valera | L | 21 | RF | 410 | 351 | 62 | 84 | 6 | 2 | 21 | 57 | 47 | 117 | 7 | 4 |
| Nolan Jones | L | 24 | 3B | 473 | 411 | 57 | 95 | 20 | 1 | 14 | 46 | 54 | 158 | 8 | 2 |
| Brayan Rocchio | B | 21 | SS | 517 | 480 | 67 | 123 | 22 | 3 | 13 | 57 | 25 | 118 | 15 | 7 |
| Bradley Zimmer | L | 29 | CF | 383 | 330 | 50 | 73 | 11 | 1 | 9 | 37 | 33 | 135 | 16 | 4 |
| Tyler Freeman | R | 23 | SS | 372 | 346 | 42 | 95 | 19 | 3 | 3 | 27 | 12 | 44 | 8 | 4 |
| Oscar Mercado | R | 27 | LF | 511 | 460 | 65 | 112 | 25 | 3 | 12 | 49 | 38 | 98 | 18 | 4 |
| Owen Miller | R | 25 | 2B | 482 | 447 | 49 | 111 | 21 | 2 | 10 | 44 | 28 | 112 | 3 | 2 |
| Jose Tena | L | 21 | SS | 471 | 447 | 59 | 104 | 21 | 1 | 14 | 50 | 19 | 126 | 8 | 4 |
| Bobby Bradley | L | 26 | 1B | 443 | 397 | 52 | 85 | 17 | 1 | 24 | 63 | 36 | 161 | 0 | 0 |
| Wilson Ramos | R | 34 | C | 361 | 335 | 34 | 90 | 14 | 0 | 12 | 49 | 22 | 63 | 0 | 0 |
| Alex Call | R | 27 | CF | 424 | 380 | 47 | 86 | 17 | 2 | 11 | 40 | 34 | 92 | 7 | 4 |
| Ryan Lavarnway | R | 34 | C | 216 | 196 | 24 | 46 | 9 | 0 | 8 | 26 | 16 | 60 | 0 | 0 |
| Yu Chang | R | 26 | 1B | 336 | 310 | 41 | 74 | 17 | 2 | 12 | 45 | 20 | 95 | 2 | 2 |
| Josh Naylor | L | 25 | RF | 426 | 391 | 50 | 101 | 21 | 1 | 14 | 48 | 32 | 75 | 2 | 1 |
| Jhonkensy Noel | R | 20 | 3B | 345 | 324 | 53 | 78 | 14 | 1 | 14 | 62 | 14 | 82 | 5 | 2 |
| Jose Fermin | R | 23 | 3B | 405 | 371 | 55 | 95 | 14 | 2 | 8 | 37 | 21 | 52 | 6 | 5 |
| Bryan Lavastida | R | 23 | C | 359 | 322 | 57 | 80 | 17 | 1 | 8 | 40 | 28 | 75 | 11 | 5 |
| Austin Hedges | R | 29 | C | 324 | 294 | 31 | 57 | 10 | 0 | 12 | 39 | 19 | 93 | 1 | 0 |
| Oscar Gonzalez | R | 24 | RF | 516 | 496 | 55 | 131 | 21 | 1 | 22 | 66 | 16 | 119 | 2 | 2 |
| Ernie Clement | R | 26 | 2B | 375 | 345 | 38 | 83 | 17 | 2 | 3 | 23 | 19 | 50 | 7 | 5 |
| Daniel Schneemann | L | 25 | SS | 228 | 211 | 25 | 48 | 7 | 1 | 4 | 18 | 14 | 59 | 6 | 2 |
| Will Brennan | L | 24 | CF | 446 | 406 | 60 | 106 | 22 | 2 | 5 | 36 | 29 | 75 | 10 | 5 |
| Trenton Brooks | L | 26 | 1B | 438 | 394 | 50 | 92 | 24 | 1 | 11 | 44 | 35 | 90 | 2 | 1 |
| Bo Naylor | L | 22 | C | 395 | 362 | 44 | 70 | 12 | 2 | 12 | 42 | 28 | 128 | 8 | 1 |
| Beau Taylor | L | 32 | C | 260 | 227 | 29 | 46 | 10 | 1 | 4 | 19 | 27 | 73 | 0 | 0 |
| Mike Rivera | R | 26 | C | 192 | 174 | 19 | 32 | 7 | 0 | 3 | 14 | 13 | 51 | 0 | 0 |
| Gavin Collins | R | 26 | C | 286 | 260 | 29 | 54 | 10 | 1 | 7 | 26 | 18 | 63 | 1 | 2 |
| Sandy León | B | 33 | C | 214 | 195 | 17 | 35 | 5 | 0 | 5 | 16 | 14 | 61 | 0 | 0 |
| Jonathan Lopez | L | 22 | C | 87 | 79 | 6 | 14 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 5 | 28 | 1 | 0 |
| Connor Marabell | L | 28 | LF | 438 | 413 | 51 | 106 | 23 | 2 | 8 | 43 | 18 | 76 | 4 | 2 |
| Aaron Bracho | B | 21 | 2B | 326 | 292 | 38 | 53 | 10 | 0 | 10 | 32 | 26 | 103 | 1 | 1 |
| Michael Amditis | R | 24 | C | 141 | 129 | 15 | 24 | 7 | 0 | 3 | 12 | 11 | 36 | 1 | 0 |
| Jonathan Engelmann | R | 25 | 1B | 293 | 265 | 31 | 52 | 10 | 1 | 7 | 24 | 21 | 89 | 4 | 2 |
| Micah Pries | L | 24 | LF | 317 | 294 | 37 | 66 | 11 | 1 | 10 | 32 | 15 | 93 | 8 | 1 |
| Victor Nova | L | 22 | 3B | 407 | 370 | 52 | 78 | 11 | 2 | 5 | 28 | 32 | 109 | 8 | 4 |
| Julian Escobedo | L | 24 | CF | 285 | 267 | 30 | 54 | 11 | 1 | 5 | 23 | 16 | 84 | 6 | 4 |
| Marcos Gonzalez | R | 22 | 1B | 267 | 248 | 22 | 51 | 10 | 0 | 8 | 20 | 15 | 92 | 0 | 2 |
| Will Benson | L | 24 | RF | 481 | 419 | 51 | 75 | 16 | 3 | 18 | 51 | 53 | 182 | 13 | 4 |
| Tyler Krieger | B | 28 | 2B | 246 | 229 | 22 | 45 | 8 | 1 | 3 | 15 | 13 | 72 | 5 | 3 |
| Player | BA | OBP | SLG | OPS+ | ISO | BABIP | RC/27 | Def | WAR | No. 1 Comp |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| José Ramírez | .275 | .365 | .544 | 141 | .269 | .274 | 7.7 | 3 | 5.4 | Ian Kinsler |
| Andrés Giménez | .252 | .306 | .419 | 93 | .167 | .309 | 4.9 | 7 | 2.5 | John Wehner |
| Myles Straw | .271 | .342 | .349 | 88 | .078 | .340 | 4.8 | 7 | 2.5 | Jerry Mumphrey |
| Franmil Reyes | .260 | .326 | .523 | 124 | .264 | .324 | 6.3 | -4 | 2.3 | Craig Wilson |
| Gabriel Arias | .262 | .310 | .412 | 93 | .150 | .332 | 4.7 | 1 | 2.0 | Tony Batista |
| Amed Rosario | .276 | .315 | .418 | 96 | .142 | .330 | 5.1 | -5 | 2.0 | Julio Franco 프랑코 |
| Steven Kwan | .287 | .343 | .426 | 106 | .139 | .309 | 5.5 | -2 | 1.9 | Jeremy Reed |
| Richie Palacios | .269 | .346 | .410 | 104 | .141 | .320 | 5.5 | -4 | 1.8 | Ken Boswell |
| George Valera | .239 | .334 | .447 | 109 | .208 | .296 | 5.3 | 4 | 1.7 | Matt Winters |
| Nolan Jones | .231 | .326 | .387 | 92 | .156 | .339 | 4.5 | 3 | 1.7 | Ian Stewart |
| Brayan Rocchio | .256 | .306 | .396 | 88 | .140 | .315 | 4.4 | 0 | 1.4 | Ronny Cedeno |
| Bradley Zimmer | .221 | .321 | .342 | 80 | .121 | .344 | 4.1 | 4 | 1.2 | Damon Mashore |
| Tyler Freeman | .275 | .316 | .373 | 86 | .098 | .308 | 4.4 | 1 | 1.0 | Matt Macri |
| Oscar Mercado | .243 | .308 | .389 | 87 | .146 | .286 | 4.5 | 5 | 1.0 | Rontrez Johnson |
| Owen Miller | .248 | .297 | .371 | 79 | .123 | .311 | 3.9 | 4 | 0.9 | Juan Melo |
| Jose Tena | .233 | .268 | .378 | 72 | .145 | .293 | 3.6 | 6 | 0.8 | Dean DeCillis |
| Bobby Bradley | .214 | .287 | .443 | 93 | .229 | .288 | 4.4 | 4 | 0.8 | Steve Carver |
| Wilson Ramos | .269 | .316 | .418 | 96 | .149 | .300 | 4.9 | -7 | 0.7 | Jamie Burke |
| Alex Call | .226 | .295 | .368 | 78 | .142 | .271 | 3.8 | 4 | 0.7 | Jeff Barry |
| Ryan Lavarnway | .235 | .298 | .403 | 87 | .168 | .297 | 4.2 | 0 | 0.7 | Robert Machado |
| Yu Chang | .239 | .292 | .423 | 90 | .184 | .305 | 4.3 | 4 | 0.5 | Greg Litton |
| Josh Naylor | .258 | .317 | .425 | 98 | .166 | .288 | 4.9 | -3 | 0.5 | Brian Traxler |
| Jhonkensy Noel | .241 | .279 | .420 | 85 | .179 | .281 | 4.2 | 1 | 0.5 | Chad Spann |
| Jose Fermin | .256 | .308 | .369 | 82 | .113 | .280 | 4.0 | 0 | 0.5 | Jesus Merchan |
| Bryan Lavastida | .248 | .312 | .382 | 86 | .134 | .301 | 4.3 | -6 | 0.4 | John Jaso |
| Austin Hedges | .194 | .248 | .350 | 59 | .156 | .238 | 2.9 | 7 | 0.4 | Mike Ryan |
| Oscar Gonzalez | .264 | .291 | .444 | 94 | .179 | .307 | 4.7 | -3 | 0.4 | Jose Guillen |
| Ernie Clement | .241 | .284 | .328 | 65 | .087 | .274 | 3.2 | 5 | 0.1 | Luis Ordaz |
| Daniel Schneemann | .227 | .281 | .327 | 64 | .100 | .297 | 3.3 | 0 | 0.0 | David Howard |
| Will Brennan | .261 | .318 | .362 | 84 | .101 | .310 | 4.2 | -8 | -0.1 | Jeff Abbott |
| Trenton Brooks | .234 | .299 | .383 | 83 | .150 | .276 | 4.0 | 0 | -0.1 | Gary Burnham |
| Bo Naylor | .193 | .254 | .337 | 58 | .144 | .261 | 3.0 | 0 | -0.2 | Lee Evans |
| Beau Taylor | .203 | .293 | .308 | 63 | .106 | .280 | 3.1 | -3 | -0.3 | Jerry Goff |
| Mike Rivera | .184 | .247 | .276 | 41 | .092 | .242 | 2.3 | 3 | -0.3 | Brian Moon |
| Gavin Collins | .208 | .270 | .335 | 62 | .127 | .247 | 3.0 | -2 | -0.3 | Brandon Marsters |
| Sandy León | .179 | .241 | .282 | 41 | .103 | .233 | 2.2 | 2 | -0.4 | Charlie Greene |
| Jonathan Lopez | .177 | .244 | .215 | 26 | .038 | .275 | 1.8 | 0 | -0.4 | Matt Pagnozzi |
| Connor Marabell | .257 | .291 | .380 | 80 | .123 | .298 | 4.0 | -4 | -0.5 | Quinn Mack |
| Aaron Bracho | .182 | .248 | .318 | 52 | .137 | .240 | 2.6 | 3 | -0.6 | Scott Powers |
| Michael Amditis | .186 | .255 | .310 | 52 | .124 | .233 | 2.7 | -4 | -0.6 | Nicholas Derba |
| Jonathan Engelmann | .196 | .264 | .321 | 57 | .125 | .266 | 2.8 | 4 | -0.6 | Edward Lowery |
| Micah Pries | .224 | .275 | .371 | 72 | .146 | .293 | 3.8 | -4 | -0.6 | Carmen Castillo |
| Victor Nova | .211 | .276 | .292 | 54 | .081 | .285 | 2.8 | 1 | -0.7 | Demetrish Jenkins |
| Julian Escobedo | .202 | .253 | .307 | 50 | .105 | .275 | 2.5 | -1 | -0.8 | Erold Andrus |
| Marcos Gonzalez | .206 | .256 | .343 | 60 | .137 | .291 | 2.8 | 1 | -0.9 | Manelik Pimentel |
| Will Benson | .179 | .273 | .360 | 69 | .181 | .260 | 3.4 | -4 | -1.0 | Duane Singleton |
| Tyler Krieger | .197 | .245 | .279 | 42 | .083 | .273 | 2.3 | -1 | -1.0 | Jason Camilli |
| Player | T | Age | W | L | ERA | G | GS | IP | H | ER | HR | BB | SO | FIP |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Shane Bieber | R | 27 | 10 | 5 | 3.11 | 23 | 23 | 139.0 | 117 | 48 | 17 | 33 | 180 | 2.98 |
| Cal Quantrill | R | 27 | 11 | 9 | 4.27 | 28 | 28 | 154.0 | 155 | 73 | 22 | 46 | 131 | 4.41 |
| Emmanuel Clase | R | 24 | 7 | 3 | 2.45 | 71 | 0 | 69.7 | 54 | 19 | 4 | 20 | 82 | 2.48 |
| Zach Plesac | R | 27 | 9 | 9 | 4.55 | 27 | 27 | 146.3 | 146 | 74 | 24 | 39 | 118 | 4.62 |
| Triston McKenzie | R | 24 | 8 | 7 | 4.53 | 29 | 27 | 129.0 | 109 | 65 | 23 | 54 | 151 | 4.51 |
| Peyton Battenfield | R | 24 | 4 | 4 | 4.38 | 23 | 20 | 98.7 | 98 | 48 | 15 | 31 | 93 | 4.37 |
| Cody Morris | R | 25 | 4 | 3 | 4.08 | 18 | 17 | 70.7 | 66 | 32 | 9 | 26 | 75 | 3.99 |
| Tobias Myers | R | 23 | 7 | 7 | 4.63 | 25 | 21 | 107.0 | 109 | 55 | 17 | 35 | 97 | 4.58 |
| James Karinchak | R | 26 | 7 | 4 | 3.13 | 61 | 0 | 54.7 | 36 | 19 | 6 | 28 | 87 | 3.07 |
| Aaron Civale | R | 27 | 8 | 9 | 4.86 | 23 | 23 | 124.0 | 128 | 67 | 23 | 32 | 100 | 4.85 |
| Konnor Pilkington | L | 24 | 7 | 7 | 4.73 | 24 | 23 | 97.0 | 98 | 51 | 14 | 44 | 91 | 4.73 |
| Xzavion Curry | R | 23 | 5 | 5 | 4.71 | 20 | 20 | 91.7 | 95 | 48 | 15 | 27 | 78 | 4.62 |
| Eli Morgan | R | 26 | 6 | 7 | 5.14 | 24 | 24 | 115.7 | 122 | 66 | 23 | 36 | 105 | 5.04 |
| Enyel De Los Santos | R | 26 | 4 | 4 | 4.64 | 35 | 10 | 77.7 | 75 | 40 | 13 | 32 | 88 | 4.52 |
| Logan Allen | L | 25 | 6 | 7 | 5.15 | 26 | 21 | 101.3 | 110 | 58 | 15 | 45 | 82 | 5.00 |
| Joey Cantillo | L | 22 | 3 | 3 | 4.70 | 12 | 8 | 38.3 | 36 | 20 | 6 | 19 | 40 | 4.77 |
| Oliver Pérez | L | 40 | 2 | 1 | 3.55 | 39 | 0 | 25.3 | 23 | 10 | 3 | 8 | 26 | 3.85 |
| Shane McCarthy | R | 25 | 2 | 2 | 4.85 | 10 | 10 | 39.0 | 40 | 21 | 6 | 19 | 34 | 5.05 |
| Adam Scott | L | 26 | 5 | 7 | 5.22 | 18 | 18 | 79.3 | 83 | 46 | 16 | 32 | 72 | 5.35 |
| Alex Young | L | 28 | 6 | 6 | 5.01 | 42 | 10 | 91.7 | 96 | 51 | 18 | 35 | 84 | 5.18 |
| Brett Daniels | R | 26 | 6 | 7 | 5.28 | 23 | 17 | 92.0 | 95 | 54 | 15 | 50 | 82 | 5.31 |
| Nic Enright | R | 25 | 4 | 4 | 4.24 | 34 | 0 | 51.0 | 47 | 24 | 7 | 20 | 54 | 4.20 |
| Nick Sandlin | R | 25 | 1 | 1 | 3.98 | 33 | 0 | 31.7 | 25 | 14 | 4 | 19 | 41 | 4.32 |
| Blake Parker | R | 37 | 2 | 2 | 4.22 | 53 | 0 | 49.0 | 46 | 23 | 7 | 18 | 49 | 4.26 |
| Trevor Stephan | R | 26 | 3 | 4 | 4.96 | 36 | 8 | 74.3 | 71 | 41 | 14 | 35 | 87 | 4.86 |
| Juan Mota | R | 26 | 5 | 5 | 5.00 | 33 | 8 | 68.3 | 68 | 38 | 9 | 38 | 64 | 4.86 |
| Kirk McCarty | L | 26 | 6 | 8 | 5.43 | 23 | 23 | 109.3 | 122 | 66 | 21 | 40 | 83 | 5.42 |
| Nick Wittgren | R | 31 | 5 | 4 | 4.47 | 57 | 1 | 58.3 | 56 | 29 | 10 | 19 | 60 | 4.48 |
| Aaron Pinto | R | 25 | 3 | 2 | 4.41 | 31 | 0 | 51.0 | 48 | 25 | 8 | 19 | 53 | 4.43 |
| Alex Royalty | R | 25 | 3 | 5 | 5.48 | 16 | 16 | 67.3 | 74 | 41 | 10 | 35 | 49 | 5.39 |
| Heath Fillmyer | R | 28 | 5 | 6 | 5.46 | 24 | 17 | 87.3 | 93 | 53 | 16 | 40 | 71 | 5.45 |
| Nick Mikolajchak | R | 24 | 3 | 3 | 4.54 | 30 | 0 | 37.7 | 36 | 19 | 7 | 13 | 40 | 4.67 |
| Sam Hentges | L | 25 | 3 | 4 | 5.42 | 30 | 16 | 88.0 | 96 | 53 | 15 | 46 | 80 | 5.25 |
| Tanner Tully | L | 27 | 6 | 8 | 5.56 | 25 | 20 | 115.0 | 138 | 71 | 23 | 31 | 74 | 5.48 |
| Robert Broom | R | 25 | 2 | 3 | 4.86 | 47 | 2 | 53.7 | 54 | 29 | 9 | 24 | 48 | 5.08 |
| Juan Hillman | L | 25 | 6 | 8 | 5.60 | 22 | 21 | 106.0 | 124 | 66 | 19 | 39 | 67 | 5.52 |
| Bryan Shaw | R | 34 | 5 | 5 | 4.70 | 71 | 0 | 67.0 | 65 | 35 | 9 | 33 | 62 | 4.69 |
| Nathan Ocker | R | 25 | 3 | 3 | 4.98 | 34 | 1 | 68.7 | 73 | 38 | 11 | 25 | 54 | 4.96 |
| Eli Lingos | L | 26 | 2 | 3 | 5.66 | 19 | 8 | 55.7 | 62 | 35 | 11 | 23 | 41 | 5.68 |
| Jake Miednik | L | 26 | 1 | 1 | 5.01 | 31 | 0 | 41.3 | 42 | 23 | 7 | 19 | 39 | 5.02 |
| Ben Krauth | L | 28 | 2 | 3 | 5.27 | 29 | 1 | 42.7 | 43 | 25 | 7 | 25 | 41 | 5.29 |
| Andrew Misiaszek | L | 24 | 3 | 3 | 4.98 | 32 | 0 | 59.7 | 61 | 33 | 9 | 28 | 52 | 5.01 |
| Thomas Ponticelli | R | 25 | 4 | 6 | 5.77 | 27 | 12 | 82.7 | 92 | 53 | 15 | 42 | 59 | 5.82 |
| Anthony Gose | L | 31 | 2 | 4 | 5.91 | 32 | 1 | 32.0 | 28 | 21 | 5 | 28 | 39 | 5.59 |
| Matt Koch | R | 31 | 4 | 5 | 5.79 | 30 | 10 | 82.3 | 96 | 53 | 19 | 27 | 59 | 5.95 |
| Jordan Stephens | R | 29 | 4 | 5 | 5.85 | 32 | 9 | 75.3 | 85 | 49 | 17 | 30 | 62 | 5.82 |
| Justin Garza | R | 28 | 3 | 5 | 5.99 | 31 | 8 | 67.7 | 71 | 45 | 13 | 41 | 62 | 5.80 |
| Manuel Alvarez | R | 26 | 2 | 2 | 5.98 | 39 | 1 | 46.7 | 46 | 31 | 7 | 40 | 46 | 5.92 |
| Player | K/9 | BB/9 | HR/9 | BB% | K% | BABIP | ERA+ | ERA- | WAR | No. 1 Comp |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Shane Bieber | 11.7 | 2.1 | 1.1 | 5.9% | 32.0% | .304 | 141 | 71 | 3.6 | Ben Sheets |
| Cal Quantrill | 7.7 | 2.7 | 1.3 | 7.0% | 19.8% | .294 | 102 | 98 | 2.0 | Bobby Jones |
| Emmanuel Clase | 10.6 | 2.6 | 0.5 | 7.1% | 29.3% | .289 | 178 | 56 | 1.9 | Huston Street |
| Zach Plesac | 7.3 | 2.4 | 1.5 | 6.3% | 19.1% | .282 | 96 | 104 | 1.6 | Oil Can Boyd |
| Triston McKenzie | 10.5 | 3.8 | 1.6 | 9.9% | 27.7% | .274 | 96 | 104 | 1.4 | Rob Bell |
| Peyton Battenfield | 8.5 | 2.8 | 1.4 | 7.3% | 22.0% | .297 | 100 | 100 | 1.2 | Slightly Better Jeff Robinson |
| Cody Morris | 9.6 | 3.3 | 1.1 | 8.6% | 24.8% | .302 | 107 | 93 | 1.1 | Jack Armstrong |
| Tobias Myers | 8.2 | 2.9 | 1.4 | 7.6% | 21.0% | .299 | 94 | 106 | 1.1 | Rich Bordi |
| James Karinchak | 14.3 | 4.6 | 1.0 | 12.3% | 38.3% | .288 | 140 | 72 | 1.0 | Armando Benitez |
| Aaron Civale | 7.3 | 2.3 | 1.7 | 6.1% | 19.0% | .285 | 90 | 111 | 0.9 | Bill Wegman |
| Konnor Pilkington | 8.4 | 4.1 | 1.3 | 10.2% | 21.1% | .303 | 92 | 108 | 0.9 | Danny Jackson |
| Xzavion Curry | 7.7 | 2.7 | 1.5 | 6.9% | 19.8% | .296 | 93 | 108 | 0.8 | Justin Germano 저마노 |
| Eli Morgan | 8.2 | 2.8 | 1.8 | 7.2% | 20.9% | .297 | 85 | 118 | 0.5 | Mark Brownson |
| Enyel De Los Santos | 10.2 | 3.7 | 1.5 | 9.4% | 25.9% | .307 | 94 | 106 | 0.5 | Esteban Yan 얀 |
| Logan Allen | 7.3 | 4.0 | 1.3 | 9.8% | 17.9% | .307 | 85 | 118 | 0.4 | Danny Borrell |
| Joey Cantillo | 9.4 | 4.5 | 1.4 | 11.2% | 23.7% | .294 | 93 | 107 | 0.3 | Ricky Horton |
| Oliver Pérez | 9.2 | 2.8 | 1.1 | 7.5% | 24.3% | .294 | 123 | 81 | 0.3 | Chris Hammond |
| Shane McCarthy | 7.8 | 4.4 | 1.4 | 10.9% | 19.4% | .298 | 90 | 111 | 0.3 | Dallas Braden |
| Adam Scott | 8.2 | 3.6 | 1.8 | 9.1% | 20.5% | .295 | 84 | 119 | 0.3 | Ryan Karp |
| Alex Young | 8.2 | 3.4 | 1.8 | 8.7% | 20.8% | .297 | 87 | 115 | 0.2 | Buddy Groom |
| Brett Daniels | 8.0 | 4.9 | 1.5 | 11.9% | 19.6% | .300 | 83 | 121 | 0.2 | Greg Aquino |
| Nic Enright | 9.5 | 3.5 | 1.2 | 9.1% | 24.5% | .294 | 103 | 97 | 0.2 | Chad Ricketts |
| Nick Sandlin | 11.7 | 5.4 | 1.1 | 13.6% | 29.3% | .288 | 110 | 91 | 0.2 | Jose Valverde |
| Blake Parker | 9.0 | 3.3 | 1.3 | 8.6% | 23.3% | .291 | 103 | 97 | 0.2 | Mike Timlin |
| Trevor Stephan | 10.5 | 4.2 | 1.7 | 10.7% | 26.5% | .303 | 88 | 114 | 0.2 | Kurt Knudsen |
| Juan Mota | 8.4 | 5.0 | 1.2 | 12.3% | 20.6% | .303 | 87 | 115 | 0.2 | Steve Curry |
| Kirk McCarty | 6.8 | 3.3 | 1.7 | 8.2% | 17.0% | .299 | 80 | 124 | 0.2 | John Rheinecker |
| Nick Wittgren | 9.3 | 2.9 | 1.5 | 7.6% | 24.1% | .293 | 98 | 102 | 0.2 | Mark Huismann |
| Aaron Pinto | 9.4 | 3.4 | 1.4 | 8.6% | 24.1% | .292 | 99 | 101 | 0.1 | Mark Brandenburg |
| Alex Royalty | 6.5 | 4.7 | 1.3 | 11.3% | 15.8% | .302 | 80 | 125 | 0.1 | Jake Joseph |
| Heath Fillmyer | 7.3 | 4.1 | 1.6 | 10.2% | 18.1% | .294 | 80 | 125 | 0.1 | Sean Lowe |
| Nick Mikolajchak | 9.6 | 3.1 | 1.7 | 8.0% | 24.7% | .290 | 96 | 104 | 0.0 | Terry Clark |
| Sam Hentges | 8.2 | 4.7 | 1.5 | 11.4% | 19.9% | .313 | 81 | 124 | 0.0 | Matt Perisho |
| Tanner Tully | 5.8 | 2.4 | 1.8 | 6.1% | 14.5% | .305 | 79 | 127 | 0.0 | Randy Marshall |
| Robert Broom | 8.0 | 4.0 | 1.5 | 10.1% | 20.2% | .292 | 90 | 111 | 0.0 | Kirk Bullinger |
| Juan Hillman | 5.7 | 3.3 | 1.6 | 8.2% | 14.0% | .303 | 78 | 128 | 0.0 | Chris Rojas |
| Bryan Shaw | 8.3 | 4.4 | 1.2 | 11.1% | 20.9% | .295 | 93 | 108 | 0.0 | Jim Czajkowski |
| Nathan Ocker | 7.1 | 3.3 | 1.4 | 8.3% | 17.8% | .297 | 88 | 114 | -0.2 | Larry Hrynko |
| Eli Lingos | 6.6 | 3.7 | 1.8 | 9.2% | 16.3% | .295 | 77 | 129 | -0.2 | Paul Kilgus |
| Jake Miednik | 8.5 | 4.1 | 1.5 | 10.3% | 21.2% | .299 | 87 | 115 | -0.2 | Andy Paul |
| Ben Krauth | 8.6 | 5.3 | 1.5 | 12.8% | 21.0% | .300 | 83 | 121 | -0.2 | Mike Kinnunen |
| Andrew Misiaszek | 7.8 | 4.2 | 1.4 | 10.4% | 19.4% | .297 | 88 | 114 | -0.2 | Jeff Yoder |
| Thomas Ponticelli | 6.4 | 4.6 | 1.6 | 11.0% | 15.5% | .296 | 76 | 132 | -0.3 | Enemencio Pacheco |
| Anthony Gose | 11.0 | 7.9 | 1.4 | 18.4% | 25.7% | .295 | 74 | 135 | -0.4 | Brad Pennington |
| Matt Koch | 6.4 | 3.0 | 2.1 | 7.3% | 15.9% | .297 | 75 | 133 | -0.4 | Danny Graves |
| Jordan Stephens | 7.4 | 3.6 | 2.0 | 8.8% | 18.3% | .301 | 75 | 134 | -0.5 | Alan Fowlkes |
| Justin Garza | 8.2 | 5.5 | 1.7 | 13.1% | 19.8% | .299 | 73 | 137 | -0.5 | Jonathan Johnson |
| Manuel Alvarez | 8.9 | 7.7 | 1.4 | 17.7% | 20.4% | .300 | 73 | 137 | -0.6 | Jeff Smith |
Players are listed with their most recent teams wherever possible. This includes players who are unsigned, players who will miss 2022 due to injury, and players who were released in 2021. So yes, if you see Joe Schmoe, who quit baseball back in August to form a big band orchestra that only plays nu-metal versions of baroque cantatas, he’s still listed here intentionally. ZiPS is assuming a league with an ERA of 4.36, similar to the post-June substance-enforcement environment.
Both hitters and pitchers are ranked by projected zWAR, which is to say, WAR values as calculated by me, Dan Szymborski, whose surname is spelled with a z. WAR values might differ slightly from those that appear in the full release of ZiPS. Finally, I will advise anyone against — and might karate chop anyone guilty of — merely adding up WAR totals on a depth chart to produce projected team WAR. ZiPS is assuming that the designated hitter will continue in force in 2022.
ZiPS is agnostic about future playing time by design. For more information about ZiPS, please refer to this article, or get angry at Dan on Twitter.
Dan Szymborski is a senior writer for FanGraphs and the developer of the ZiPS projection system. He was a writer for ESPN.com from 2010-2018, a regular guest on a number of radio shows and podcasts, and a voting BBWAA member. He also maintains a terrible Twitter account at @DSzymborski.
Thank you Dan, very cool!
I was wondering where you got off to. Why weren’t the previous ZiPS posts very cool? I need to know what I’m doing right here that was wrong elsewhere, or I’ll never learn.
I’ll never reveal the secrets to my cool formula. One might say I’m a guardian of it.
Always look forward to this series. Thanks so much for the excellent content and hard work!
…also, this article lacks Soto. Needs more Soto.
Next up: The Dodgers and Elliot Soto!
One of the more depressing things to do in sports is watch the days tick down on a star player on a team that isn’t committed to building around them, but rather leaning on them so that they’re not totally terrible. On November 1st, 2022, the Cleveland Guardians will take offers on Jose Ramirez and deal him to a team that has hopes of signing him to a long-term deal (like Mookie Betts or Francisco Lindor). On November 1st, 2023, the same thing will happen with Shane Bieber.
The window is shut, and there’s nothing left to do but watch them slowly drift into mediocrity until the next wave of prospects come into their own.
The best thing for them long-term would probably be for the entire team to implode, much like the Brewers did in the mid 2010s and the Pirates did a few years after that, forcing them to take a look in the mirror and make some hard choices. That’s probably the only way they’d start thinking about what the next good Cleveland team will look like. But they’ve been good enough at avoiding that outcome that it doesn’t seem likely.
Yeah I don’t find the Brewers and Pirates rebuilds to be particularly analogous. The Brewers in the mid teens be ear bottomed out to the Bucs degree or for that length of time. They started to drop in 2013, but had a surprise contending year in 2014 (if memory serves, they were in first or near it for much of the season until fading late), dropped sharply in 15 and 16 (but not too 100 loss territory like these Bucs are), rebounded to 86 wins in 17 and then pulled off the Yelich trade to slam their window open for a few solid years here. I’m as confused as others in terms of how the Brewers do it. But they’ve developed well, known which prospects to pump and dump, and make astute pickups.
The Pirates are just a lethal cocktail of cheap, unimaginative, and failing at development.
Let’s be honest here. Cleveland needs a new owner. And part of that is MLB doing a better job of screening potential owners and making sure that they can and will support the team.
I know it can be difficult to compare across sports but the Cleveland Cavaliers are running a $136 million payroll this year, which puts them significantly over the NBA salary cap. And well above what the Guardians are spending. Dan Gilbert, the owner of the Cavs, has consistently shown a willingness to spend on the team in an attempt to win. And my guess is that he’s using at least some of his own money to do that. But it’s fairly easy for him to do that considering he’s listed as having a net worth of $37.6 billion, making him the 36th richest person in the world. I’ve done a lot of research on how much the Guardians’ owners are worth and it’s hard to find any information at all. But I’d ballpark it around $500 million, excluding the value of the team itself. Now obviously the Guardians don’t need someone at Gilbert’s financial level but they definitely need someone who is well above the level of the Dolans’.
One of the things that I thought was interesting was the number of people close to the Cleveland front office who insisted that after spending almost no money on the team last year that they would reinvest in the team now. But right now they’re under $50M for their opening day payroll. That’s embarrassingly low and there’s not a ton of players who are worth investing in on the FA market anymore. Maybe if they think Kyle Schwarber can play first base (or has enough mobility to cover right field) he’d be good but even that has qualifiers on it.
I kind of think that the team has spent so much time trying to strike gold by signing a top player to a cheap contract like they did with Ramirez that they’ve missed how much the value of these players has changed. Apparently the team has made multiple extension offers to Shane Bieber, which is good, but a deal hasn’t come together yet and it’s not hard to guess what’s happening. They’re trying to win the deal, but by not being more aggressive earlier each year it gets more expensive. He’s projected for 4.8M in arbitration this year.
To be fair, the top of the free agent market this year was heavily tilted to shortstops and starting pitchers, Which obviously wasn’t a big need for Cleveland. And Cleveland has never been about signing free agents. The last three major free agents they signed were Encarnacion, Swisher, and Bourn. And they only signed them because the market dropped for them. Even with that, they definitely regretted signing the latter two. Encarnacion worked out a bit better but still didn’t put them where they wanted to be.
But year, ponying up to sign Bieber and/or Ramirez to an extension would create a lot of goodwill with the fans.
Cleveland Pittsburgh and Cincy probably shouldn’t all have teams
Maybe Cleveland and Pittsburgh, since they’re only a couple hours away from each other. Cincy is a long way away and is operating in a very different market. But it’s really hard to tell what’s due to them being in a smaller market and what’s due to the team so obviously pinching pennies and signaling to the fans that they’re not going to invest in the team. MLB has to find a way to make franchises in these smaller cities work because otherwise they’re ceding large swathes of the country to other sports.
I also think the team may have mis-calibrated its ticket prices a bit. I was shocked when I learned how expensive MLB tickets in Cleveland were–I seem to recall they were more expensive than each of the Pirates, Brewers, Tigers, Reds, or Twins tickets when I was looking for deals in the rust belt / midwest.
“MLB has to find a way to make franchises in these smaller cities work because otherwise they’re ceding large swathes of the country to other sports.”
This is hardly an unsolvable problem since you don’t have this issue in basketball or football (no idea about hockey since I don’t follow it). In basketball this year team spending ranges from a low of $79 million to a high of $179 million. But that’s a bit misleading because you have an extreme outlier (Oklahoma) at the low end. Set them aside and the range is between $115 million to $179 million with some small market teams such as Milwaukee (#5) and Utah (#6) near the top of spending and some large market teams such as New Yerk (#25) and Houston (#21) near the bottom.
The problem is that MLB simply lacks the will to solve the problem.
revenue sharing and national media etc deals have made all teams more or less guaranteed to be profitable. however at some point a population base has to exist on the margins. Cuyahoga county’s population is now lower than it was in the 1950 and relative to the rest of the country’s growth that is an even more massive drop
It’s not like we’re talking about a tiny place, though. Cleveland’s metro area is about the same population as places commonly listed as expansion teams (Nashville, Portland, Las Vegas, Austin) and other small markets in MLB (Kansas City, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati). Cleveland also competes with the Reds for market share in Columbus, which is not in either metro area, so it’s not like there aren’t other population centers nearby to draw from either.
If MLB is giving up on population centers of this size they’d have to contract 5 teams, and Tampa and Oakland would probably have to fold too. That’s not good! The heart of the problem is that MLB teams are more interested in rent collection than market share, so they’ll keep presiding over ever-shrinking revenues.
“MLB has to find a way to make franchises in these smaller cities work ” Um, Cleveland has more wins from 2013 – 2021 than every team but one in the AL, the NYY have won 759 and Cleveland has won 759 in that time. In the NL the Dodgers have 820 and St Louis has 755. What’s your definition of making a franchise in a smaller city “work” than being one of the winningest teams in the past 8 years? It’s not like they’re BAD right now either.
I’m a little confused what you’re referring to here. joelbarlow’s argument was that baseball in all of Cleveland, Cincinnati, and Pittsburgh is not financially viable because the metro areas aren’t big enough anymore and the markets aren’t distinct from each other. I don’t think I really buy that. It sounds like you’re talking about something else.
Thinking in terms of windows is so binary and not completely accurate. More like waves. If you looked at any of the prospects on this list of projections, there are some very promising hitters and pitchers in the high-minors.
Cleveland should absolutely extend Jose Ramirez after the lockout is over (hoping a salary floor forces them to!).
But they were already mediocre this year and they might be in 2022. If their farm system pans out, they won’t be. But they should re-up Ramirez regardless.
Also, as long as we’re at it, Dan and Eric should get in a room and talk a bit about how they view pitchers. And they should film it for our entertainment. Here Dan has called Cal Quantrill a solid #2 starter because he got a 2-win projection. In “The New Fangraphs Scouting Primer”, Eric and Kiley state a #2 starter is a guy who lands in the 5-7 win range. Maybe if they argue about it for an hour they can move a bit closer to each other?
If a number 2 starter is in the 5-7 win range, doesn’t that mean only like 10 teams have a number 2 starter? And how does that measure up with most of the fangraphs staff referring to Robbie Ray, a 4-win pitcher, as a “legitimate ace”?
Yeah, I don’t know where Eric and Kiley are coming from. Only two starters exceeded 7 wins last year which would imply there were only two #1 starters in all of baseball. Then there were another 5 between 5-7 wins which gives us five #2 starters. So I guess the rest are #3 starters or worse???
It doesn’t line up. This more or less why I think the concepts of a #1, #2, etc should come with alongside an explicit definition because otherwise everyone is using the same terms to mean different things.
I actually very much commend Eric for laying out his criteria so explicitly. But I also would like Eric to defend the specific system he’s laid out because it’s so alien to how other people use it. It’s so high that the entire league consists of #4 starters. I mean, my ideal system is higher than anyone else’s, and Eric’s is even higher than that.
In terms of war, would 5-4-3-2-1 be over simplistic? Meaning a guy puts up 5 war, he’s a 1. He puts up 4, he’s a 2 and so on. And if you’re over 6, you’re an ace? Or call it a Gibson.
EDIT: D’oh! I didn’t scroll enough and just saw ST putting forth the same theory!
I think this is evidence that the 5-4-3-2-1 theory of pitching has a lot of resonance. Easy to remember, and serves as a plausible benchmark for team construction.
Oh it’s super simple for a Luddite like me, so it gets my vote.
I believe when they talk about prospects and where they fit in future rotations they are referring to the player’s likely one-year ceiling; a solid #2 starter is not a guy posting 5 WAR seasons every year, but rather a guy whose career year is something around 5-7 WAR with typical seasons in the range of a #3 starter’s peak season. A #3 starter doesn’t post 3-5 WAR seasons every year, but their career year would be over 3 WAR. That’s how I always interpreted it anyway, and it holds pretty well.
FWIW, I prefer a system that is the rotation you’d feel good about going into the playoffs. That would be something like this:
5+ wins: #1, a league ace
4+ wins: #2, a staff ace
3+ wins: #3, a mid-rotation starter
2+ wins: #4, a borderline mid-rotation starter
1+ wins: #5-#6, a back end starter, guys who hopefully would never start in a playoff game.
Eric’s system is basically one whole level up from this, with a #1 being someone who has more than seven (!!!!) wins. I don’t know that it’s worth even defining what a seven win pitcher is like compared to a six win pitcher.
That seems reasonable though it also needs to be balanced with IP, particularly in this era of declining innings by starters.
This is always tricky. So Carlos Rodon threw something like 130-135 innings this year and put up almost 5 wins. Do we prorate that out to 180 innings or so, or is his availability part of the deal? I have seen arguments for both sides that make sense. I think that to some extent the rate matters because you see teams doing things like signing pitchers who have pitched at that level in the past coming off Tommy John surgery for big money, but if you’re not available by the time the playoffs come it’s moot.
I think the availability is part of it. It’s awesome work to do that in 135 innings, but it still ain’t a full season so I don’t think you’d judge him as a 1 that way.
Ya I like the 5-4-3-2-1 system. It more or less fits and it’s easy to understand and remember. If you want to have a category for 6 = HOF Prime, 7 = HOF Peak, 8 = Inner Circle Peak, 11 = Hoss Radbourne Peak, I’d be Ok with that too.
9= Randy Johnson prime
10=Randy Johnson peak
15=Randy Johnson striking out 20 batters and walking zero against the Reds
Also, I went to go find the box score from that game and forgot that he didn’t get the win for that because it went to extra innings and he left after 9 innings.
I like this idea a lot.
For 2021, that means there are 7 true #1s:
Burnes
Wheeler
Eovaldi
Buehler
Scherzer
Cole
Urias
Plus Rodon and Degrom when healthy (just under 5 WAR but way fewer innings)
13 #2s
Gausman
…
Peralta
22 #3s
Ray
…
Ohtani
(You could easily argue Ray and Ohtani as a 2)
24 #4s
Miley
…
Taillon
At some point, you might want to use some kind of WAR/180 to account for guys with lower innings through no fault of their own, like Gilbert and Manoah.
I think these are, as someone said below, aspirational and based on what a contending team would want.
If you had a rotation of Buehler, Gausman, Stroman, Miley, Yarborough, you’d be quite happy with that going into the season or the playoffs. In fact, that’s probably about as good as a rotation can get in 2021.
The Brewers finished just behind the Dodgers for the league lead in starting pitcher WAR (the Dodgers aren’t a great example because of Scherzer, Kershaw, and Bauer all pitching a lot fewer innings).
And the Brewers have basically this:
1 (Burnes)
2 (Woodruff)
3 (Peralta)
5 (Lauer)
5 (Houser)
Now if you want to apply a multi year requirement to call someone a true 1 or 2, that’s fine. They just need to average the above WAR over a 3 or 4 year span.
These are good elaborations. Also, I think I was the one who said they were aspirational and what a contending team would want, so it makes sense that this is in agreement with that. 🙂
This is part of why I think the Brewers should be going for it, hard. As far as I can tell they’ve managed to a particularly hard thing, which is assembling an ideal playoff rotation. Add in the fact that they now have a top shortstop, and they’re all under control for a few more years…that screams “go for it”.
I like the idea of rolling it into multiple years for pitchers to get a more complete picture. Maybe that’s overthinking it, but I feel they’re so volatile you see guys bust and break out so frequently.
I use the more traditional approach. I see a #1 as the average best pitcher on a team. And so on down the line.
I think Eric is pretty high on this too, but I am going to argue with you about this anyway.
Aside from the fact that the #30-#60 starter is probably going to be projected for…2.5 wins? Maybe as high as 3 wins? I don’t necessarily think that term serves you well because so much of your other writing makes the case elegantly for when to buy and when to sell, that teams should take advantage of their windows of opportunity and move guys when they have zero chance. In this worldview, which I think has a lot going for it, a 2.5 win starter cannot be your #2 pitcher. He’s more like your #4 pitcher, because otherwise you’re going to get pasted. So I think there’s an argument that in a lot of what you’ve written, the concept of a #1 or #2 makes more sense as an aspirational slot rather than a literal distribution of what the #30-#60 pitchers are projected as.
But a 2.5 win projected starter is somewhere between a 2 and a 3. Projections are inherently conservative, and I’d consider a solid #3 starter to be your “average” starter, so a 2-2.5 win pitcher. If you’re projected at 2.5 wins, doesn’t take much of an overperformance to bump your real world performance into solid #2 territory, and if you meet that projection, your team is doing pretty good if you’re the #3. Very few teams have a #4 who’s a projected as 2.5 win player. Cleveland circa 2019 probably
I don’t know what you’re arguing for or against here. But I do know that if I click over to Steamer right now the #31 pitcher (Blake Snell) is projected for 3.2 wins and #60 is projected at 2.5. So unless ZiPs is considerably more conservative than Steamer it seems unlikely Quantrill would be in that range.
To be fair, I think Dan was saying that ZiPS sees him as a #2. He didn’t really specify if he agrees or not.
I actually like him a little more than ZiPS. I think of a #2 as in the 110 ERA+ range.
only 7 pitchers had a 5 win or better season in 2021, in 2019 it was 11, and 10 in 2018.
5-7 wins seems like a bar that’s wildly too high for a #2 starter. I’d comfortably put it around 3 WAR
I don’t know what I’m more surprised by: the fact that Plesac’s closest comp is Oil Can Boyd or the fact that a guy named Oil Can Boyd played in the 80’s rather than the 20’s
I’m old enough to remember Oil Can Boyd. All I can say is that if COVID had been around during the mid 80’s, I can see Oil Can as one of the most likely to get suspended for violating the COVID-related rules.
(Dan – did this somehow factor into the comp for Plesac?)
I remember him too. Everything about him made more sense when I realized he was a drug addict, abusing everything from booze to cocaine. Incredibly fun, energetic, life of the party. Also totally unreliable. I knew a guy like this in college, we laughed about him and all his silly antics, but a couple of years later we realized we should had gotten him some help instead and taken everything more seriously.
I was never sure if this story was true, but I thought I heard Boyd was so upset at finding out he wouldn’t start game 7 in 1986 he got hammered and was in no condition to pitch when they needed him. Who knows, Boston didn’t want for scapegoats back then.
Oil Can was due to his love of beer. An ominous portent.
And if you heard that name, you’d likely think 1880s before 1980s.
Great stuff as always. I find it humorous that a closer known for super high velo (Clase) gets a top comp as a closer who was known for being a soft tosser (Street).
Yeah, ZiPS *tries* but can’t always. Before 2002, it uses a model for inferring velocity. Though that doesn’t affect Street.
The great irony is that when looking at their same age seasons compared to their eras, Street was more of a strikeout pitcher than Clase! From 05-07 Street ran a K% of 25.4% which was well above the rate of the day of around 16.7%. Clase has a career K% of 25.5% (almost identical to Street’s during his same age seasons) but of course the league is striking out of 23% of the time now.
I will take the under on Kwan. I am not bullish on Nolan Jones either. I’ll take the over on Rosario’s WAR projection, and I think he still has another gear in him.
I think these articles should come with an integrated over/under poll for each player. And a leaderboard.
I would build this for free.
what could “another gear” conceivably look like for Jose Ramirez? When you’re that good there’s limited room for improvement
2017, where he sacrifices a small amount of power and pulls the ball a bit less, so he runs a more normal BABIP with even fewer strikeouts, which results in a much better average.
Or 2018, where he is a touch more patient and walks a huge amount, while also hitting into almost zero double plays.
Those are the max, I think.
Bo Naylor
Beau Taylor
Neau Baylor
No Bailer
I’m not exactly sure why public discourse has Gimenez at second and Rosario at short. I suppose it’s the precedent that’s been set, but mostly because Gimenez was in AAA for the majority of the season while Rosario “won” the job. Gimenez is far and away the more talented defender–why wouldn’t the Guardians swap them?
No one knows, but they have said that Rosario will be the short stop. Maybe trying to pump Rosario’s trade value? It makes no sense
I never knew Franmil Reyes was this good! He’s way more awesome than Hunter Renfroe or Franchy Cordero.
Battenfield was first with Houston, then Tampa Bay, and now Cleveland, which are probably 3 of the 5 best teams in the league at developing pitching— Milwaukee, the Dodgers, and maybe the White Sox the only others in that conversation— which probably means that he has some significant pitch data that those analytically-inclined teams really love.
Why is he bouncing then?
Cleveland’s staff has some of the best pitcher names and nobody is even in second place.
Curious where Steven Kwan popped up as a solid looking player. He was a 35 grade prospect who hadn’t done much. Be a real boon for them if he reaches this.
Pre-pandemic he didn’t look like much. Had good bat to ball skills but showed little to no power and I think is considered more of a corner OF than someone with the defense to stick in CF. After the lost season though, last year his numbers were terrific. More walks than Ks as he went to AA and then AAA and had a big power boost those it’s doubles power and not home runs. 11.7 BB and 6.7 K rate in AAA, with an ISO around .200?
Dan Espino didn’t make the list. What does he look like if he was called up?
with Bieber and Ramirez this is a .500 team. both are off the charts valuable and could return a ton in trade. If the Indians are not going to bring in more starting pitching, a better catcher, and a first basemen, then they will likely reach the world series faster if they trade both of them for a ton of prospects. This team could win 70 without them.