2024 Trade Value: Nos. 21-30

As is tradition at FanGraphs, we’re using the lead-up to the trade deadline to take stock of the top 50 players in baseball by trade value. For a more detailed introduction to this year’s exercise, as well as a look at the players who fell just short of the top 50, be sure to read the Introduction and Honorable Mentions piece, which can be found in the widget above.
For those of you who have been reading the Trade Value Series the last few seasons, the format should look familiar. For every player, you’ll see a table with the player’s projected five-year WAR from 2025-2029, courtesy of Dan Szymborski’s ZiPS projections. The table will also include the player’s guaranteed money, if any, the year through which their team has contractual control of them, last year’s rank (if applicable), and then projections, contract status, and age for each individual season through 2029 (assuming the player is under contract or team control for those seasons). Last year’s rank includes a link to the relevant 2023 post. Thanks are due to Sean Dolinar for his technical wizardry. At the bottom of the page, there is a grid showing all of the players who have been ranked up to this point.
A note on the rankings: As we ascend towards the top of the list, the tiers matter more and more. There are clear gaps in value. Don’t get too caught up on what number a player is, because who they’re grouped with is a more important indicator. The gap between no. 20 and 19 is next to nothing; between 12 and 11, it’s much steeper. I’ll note places where I disagreed meaningfully with people I spoke with in calibrating this list, and I’ll also note players whose value was the subject of disagreement among my contacts. As I mentioned in the Introduction and Honorable Mentions piece, I’ll indicate tier breaks between players where appropriate, both in their capsules and bolded in the table at the end of the piece.
With that out of the way, let’s get to the next batch of players.
| Five-Year WAR | 15.1 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2027 |
| Previous Rank | – |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2025 | 27 | 3.6 | Arb 1 |
| 2026 | 28 | 3.2 | Arb 2 |
| 2027 | 29 | 3.0 | Arb 3 |
Arguably, Kwan doesn’t belong in this tier, which yesterday I deemed “young hitters at up-the-middle positions.” He’s 26 and plays the corner outfield. I think he’s a broadly similar player, though, and I consider his value roughly in line with those guys, so I stretched my definition a bit. Like many players who ranked similarly, Kwan does a lot of things well. Unlike those players, he has one tool that I feel comfortable calling his best: I think he’s one of the few true-talent .300 hitters in baseball, which means he gets on base at a phenomenal rate.
Like Luis Arraez, Kwan’s bat control is such that you basically can’t throw a pitch by him – he actually has a higher contact rate than Arraez does. Unlike Arraez, who has never seen a pitch he doesn’t want to flare the other way for a single, Kwan is a discerning hitter who will take a walk. He’s hitting for more power this year, and the result is a 156 wRC+, downright phenomenal for someone with below-average raw pop. Oh yeah, he’s probably the best defensive left fielder in the game too.
No one, myself included, thinks that Kwan will keep hitting at this rate. He doesn’t have to, though. ZiPS has him down for three-ish wins a season, and it’s lower on him than pretty much everyone else. The biggest downside here is that he’s been doing it for a few years already, which means he only has three years of team control left after this season. On the flip side, did you hear the part where I said he’s been producing for years already? He’s already up to almost 12 WAR in the majors! Kwan is a plug-and-play option for any lineup, and he’s so good defensively that I can overlook where he stands on the field. Sign me up, please.
| Five-Year WAR | 19.5 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2029 |
| Previous Rank | – |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2025 | 26 | 3.9 | Pre-Arb |
| 2026 | 27 | 4.0 | Pre-Arb |
| 2027 | 28 | 4.0 | Arb 1 |
| 2028 | 29 | 4.1 | Arb 2 |
| 2029 | 30 | 3.5 | Arb 3 |
Not the Orioles second baseman you expected to see on this list, huh? I guess Jackson Holliday is on here too (albeit further down), but I don’t think many people expected Westburg to be the young standout putting up spectacular major league numbers halfway through the season. Here’s some inside dirt on the making of this list: I ranked Westburg aggressively high so that I could learn what people really thought of him when they told me to move him lower. It didn’t work, though. Everyone just agreed with where I had him and moved on. In that sense, maybe it actually worked very well.
If you put Westburg’s numbers under a microscope, nothing looks particularly weird or unsustainable. He comes up to the plate looking to do damage, putting his solid sense of the strike zone to work proactively. He hits a ton of fly balls and pops homers to all fields. Camden Yards is a terrible home park for him, in fact, thanks to the new left field cutout, but he’s slugging his way through it. Projection systems have seen all they need to; they universally think Westburg is going to continue to be a plus bat going forward.
There were some early questions about his defensive viability, but he looks perfectly acceptable to me. I’d call Westburg an average defender at second and third, and that versatility is nice. That goes a long way towards describing his overall game, really. He can play a few spots defensively, he’s a reasonable bat up and down the lineup, he runs the bases well — every team could use more Westburgs. He’s 25, he won’t be a free agent until after the 2029 season, he’s mashing in the majors right now, and he’s projected to keep doing so. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
| Five-Year WAR | 13.9 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | $15.0 M |
| Team Control Through | 2027 |
| Previous Rank | #14 |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2025 | 27 | 2.9 | $15.0 M |
| 2026 | 28 | 2.9 | $20.0 M |
| 2027 | 29 | 2.9 | $20.0 M |
Robert is the highest-ranked player in this tier, and he’s also one of the players who sparked the most disagreement in this entire exercise. I’ll give you a quick rundown of his bona fides first, then take you through what people disagreed about, broadly speaking. Robert is the kind of guy who can rip off a five-win season and have it feel like there’s more in the tank, like he did just last year. He’s a spectacular center field defender, with great routes, great speed, and a plus throwing arm. He boasts top-shelf power, and it’s not wasted on grounders, either. There have been 176 players who have racked up at least 1,000 batted balls since Robert’s debut; he’s seventh in wOBA on contact out of that group.
Sounds like an MVP candidate, right? Now let’s get to the downsides. Robert’s approach at the plate leaves something to be desired. This is the first year his chase rate has been better than the fifth percentile (95% of hitters chase less frequently, in other words). His newfound patience hasn’t worked, though; he’s striking out a third of the time, the worst mark of his career, because he’s added enough called strikes to offset the decline in whiffs. He’s had trouble staying healthy; since his 2020 debut, he’s 126th in plate appearances. He’s averaging 425 PAs per 162-game season. He has fewer plate appearances than Fernando Tatis Jr. in that stretch, and Tatis missed more than a full season thanks to injury and then a suspension. Robert is Schrödinger’s center fielder: He might be the best player on your team, or he might make very little impact.
His contract is certainly a mark in his favor as far as teams are concerned; he’s set to make $15 million next year, then has two $20 million team options after that. Those are reasonable rates, and Robert is in the prime of his career. That’s solid, but there are center fielders on better deals, and center fielders who play more frequently. If you think he’s worth the kind of return that would put him in this spot on the list, you have to think he’ll be mostly healthy. You can see from the projections that ZiPS isn’t so sure about that.
Now, the takes. Oh boy, the takes. I don’t think a single person liked where I had Robert on the list. Fifteen spots lower! Ten spots higher! He’s too much of an injury risk! You have to take a gamble on talent like this! The exclamation marks weren’t always explicit, but they were always at least implied. No one has a measured take about Robert. They love him or hate him. I feel like such a wimp putting him right around the middle of the list, but despite his spectacular ceiling, I just couldn’t move him any higher than the seven-player tier that started with Gabriel Moreno.
| Five-Year WAR | 16.1 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2027 |
| Previous Rank | HM |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2025 | 27 | 3.6 | Arb 1 |
| 2026 | 28 | 3.5 | Arb 2 |
| 2027 | 29 | 3.2 | Arb 3 |
How you feel about the stickiness of catcher framing informs how you’ll feel about Contreras. In 2023, every imaginable system graded him as one of the best receivers in the game. This year, every one agrees he’s below average. If 2023 is the truth, I’m too low on him. If 2024 is right, I’m too high. I’m splitting the difference and leaning towards his 2024 numbers as a tiebreaker, because even last year, I didn’t quite believe he’d become an elite defender overnight.
Now, offense? That he has in spades. Contreras is a bat speed deity. He’s the patron saint of an entire new Statcast measure. Over the past three seasons, he’s posted a 127 wRC+, behind only Adley Rutschman (128) and his brother (136) among catchers. He doesn’t need to be a great defender to be a great player; average will suffice.
He’s here, the lesser-ranked of two catchers in a mini-tier, because he’s only under team control for three more years after this one. That sounds like a ton, but only one player higher on the list has less control remaining, and only two are tied with him. The other 23 are going to be around for longer, which means there’s a high bar to clear here.
| Five-Year WAR | 16.2 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2029 |
| Previous Rank | HM |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2025 | 26 | 3.4 | Pre-Arb |
| 2026 | 27 | 3.4 | Arb 1 |
| 2027 | 28 | 3.3 | Arb 2 |
| 2028 | 29 | 3.3 | Arb 3 |
| 2029 | 30 | 2.9 | Arb 4 |
Here’s the catcher defense counterpoint. Bailey was the best overall defender in baseball last year. This year, he’s still the best, and he’s lapping the field. He does everything well other than blocking, but I expect that to improve in short order because he’s just so good behind the plate. His pop times beggar belief. He’s a naturally gifted receiver who led baseball by everyone’s version of the metric despite only catching 765.2 innings last year, and he’s comfortably in first again this year. There just aren’t better defenders out there at the moment — period.
I don’t expect that to continue – it would be wild to forecast something so superlative to continue without any regression towards the mean. But even 80% of that level would be overwhelmingly valuable, and you can dream on Bailey’s offense as well. He’s walking more than league average, striking out less, and hitting for credible power this year. His game is probably always going to be OBP over slug, but there’s nothing wrong with that; it’s just somewhat unusual for a catcher. At just 25 years old, he’s not about to careen off of the age cliff, which means he’ll probably produce around this level for a while.
“For a while” also refers to his team control. Bailey didn’t accrue a full year of service time last year, which means he has five more years after this one before reaching free agency. Only my fundamental uncertainty about how best to handle defense-first catchers (see Sean Murphy from 2023 for corroborating evidence) keeps him this low.
| Five-Year WAR | 12.9 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | $83.8 M |
| Team Control Through | 2033 |
| Previous Rank | – |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2025 | 21 | 2.0 | $4.3 M |
| 2026 | 22 | 2.5 | $7.3 M |
| 2027 | 23 | 2.6 | $8.3 M |
| 2028 | 24 | 2.8 | $9.3 M |
| 2029 | 25 | 3.0 | $15.3 M |
I labeled the player tiers I created when I was making this list, and most of them had descriptive names: “playoff-caliber starters with team control,” “top prospects who haven’t broken out yet,” “wait ‘til you see him play shortstop defense,” etc. This tier was just called “Tier Seven: Jackson Chourio.” I tried and failed to find players of roughly comparable value, so I ended up placing him on the list by process of elimination as much as anything else.
Chourio’s potential is off the charts. He’s 20 years old and on pace for a three-win season. He’s hitting major league pitching as well as or better than plenty of more advanced hitting prospects. He’s adding value on the basepaths. He’s getting better as the year goes along. I wouldn’t be shocked if he posted a 20/20 season. He’s a difference maker on defense, too. The Brewers are awash in good defensive center fielders and I understand why Chourio ended up in right, but he’s one of the best defensive corner outfielders in the majors already.
Chourio’s contract is also enticing; it’s in the Goldilocks zone where all the terms are just right. The AAV is low enough that even if he ends up as merely an average regular in the long run, his deal won’t significantly impact a team’s cherished financial flexibility. The two team options (2032 and 2033) are nice kickers if he’s a star, and those will be his age-28 and 29 seasons, so it’s not like they’re unlikely to be exercised because he’ll be in the midst of his decline phase. The extra years relative to the normal arbitration process feel extra valuable because he’s so young – how many players are 27 in the eighth year of their contract? If he’s a superstar, this deal will make Chourio the best bargain in baseball for years to come.
I don’t think he fits with the other 2024 prospect debuts because he’s signed for longer and is doing more in the majors already. But there’s still uncertainty here; it’s a long deal, and he isn’t great yet, just potentially so. Chourio vs. Bailey made me think for a looooooong time. In the end, I decided that Chourio’s combination of high defensive floor and breakout potential, combined with his contract, put him over the top.
| Five-Year WAR | 17.6 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2026 |
| Previous Rank | – |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2025 | 28 | 3.8 | Arb 2 |
| 2026 | 29 | 3.6 | Arb 3 |
Skubal is the only player on this entire list who will hit free agency after the 2026 season. Baseball decision-makers value team control more than ever. They’re not wrong to; as everyone gets better at hunting draft and development inefficiencies, keeping your own success stories in town for a while matters more and more. Guys who are a long way from free agency are also more willing to sign mutually beneficial extensions. None of this is rocket science.
Speaking of rocket science: Skubal breaks this mold because he’s throwing rockets past opposing batters with the regularity of a replicable science project. He’s one of the top two pitchers in baseball right now (the other guy is higher up on this list). In the last calendar year, he’s a WAR clear of the field, and just so we’re clear, this isn’t some FIP creation; he has a 2.35 ERA and 2.33 FIP in that span. He throws five pitches, and they’re all average or better. He has pinpoint command and generates swinging strikes like most people breathe.
Does he carry injury risk? You saw the part up above where I said he’s a pitcher, right? Of course he carries injury risk. Trading for pitchers requires plugging your ears a little bit when models like ZiPS quote you projected WAR. But you don’t get to build your team without pitchers, and there’s real scarcity value to someone who gives you an edge in every game they pitch.
Skubal, and the three players immediately above him, represent my attempt at quantifying that tradeoff. Each of them will likely be very good so long as they’re healthy. Each of them could go up in a puff of smoke at any moment. Good luck building a good team without some guys like that, though. Whether via free agency, short-term rental, drafting and developing, or backing up a truck full of top-tier prospects for years of control, you can’t really get by without them.
| Five-Year WAR | 17.2 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2027 |
| Previous Rank | #33 |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2025 | 28 | 4.2 | Arb 2 |
| 2026 | 29 | 3.8 | Arb 3 |
| 2027 | 30 | 3.4 | Arb 4 |
Gilbert versus Skubal was a tough debate for me. Every year, when I’m not doing this exercise, I forget how good Gilbert is. He’s outrageously consistent, and at a high level too. He’s never hit the IL. He doesn’t miss turns in the rotation. He’s had two or three bad starts all year. He debuted in May 2021, and he’s three starts shy of the major league lead in starts since then, 30 innings short of the leader. He posts ERAs and ERA estimators in the 3.00s with monotonic regularity. His player page makes me wonder if we’re duplicating lines, but we’re not. He’s just that steady.
He’s pretty clearly not the best pitcher in baseball right now, unlike Skubal. But it’s not like he’s some slouch. He’s 18th in ERA- among all starters to throw 500 innings since his debut – and he’s thrown 630 innings (he’s 17th in FIP-, for you true-outcome truthers). He’s kind of boring (sorry Logan), which makes all of this fly under the radar; not walking anybody isn’t the kind of thing that gets you GIF’ed endlessly. But man, taking the ball every fifth day and putting up a credible effort is not something you can count on in modern baseball.
I wouldn’t fault anyone for switching these two. It’s like splitting luxurious, flowing hairs. I don’t think you can realistically pick between them with confidence. I definitely don’t think that picking between them means much of anything; it’s not like they’re getting swapped for one another, and their overall value is quite close. I solicited feedback on the list with these two flip-flopped more than once, and no one ever corrected me in either direction.
| Five-Year WAR | 17.6 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2028 |
| Previous Rank | #26 |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2025 | 27 | 3.9 | Arb 1 |
| 2026 | 28 | 3.7 | Arb 2 |
| 2027 | 29 | 3.6 | Arb 3 |
| 2028 | 30 | 3.3 | Arb 4 |
Can we do callbacks between days in Trade Value blurbs? Because my number one consultant, Count von Count, is still on hand, and he has a message for everyone wondering why Kirby is ahead of Skubal and Gilbert: “Four! Four years of team control remaining, ah ha ha!” But there’s more to it than that. Kirby isn’t just an 80-command guy anymore. Pitching models across the board agree with what my eyes are telling me: He’s harnessing his stuff better than ever and growing into a strikeout pitcher by understanding when it’s acceptable to leave the zone.
My biggest hangup with Kirby in previous years was that he cared too much about never walking anyone. He flooded the zone, even in advantageous counts and even without bat-missing stuff, and it occasionally came back to bite him. His zone rate has fallen by 3.4 percentage points this year, and it’s much to his benefit. Now he’s throwing nastier pitches and throwing them less predictably. His swinging strike rate is ticking up in lockstep with his strikeout rate, and his walk rate hasn’t budged because he’s still so dang precise when it matters.
I’m not sure Kirby will ever put together a best-pitcher-in-baseball stretch. The guys who do that are usually striking out 30-40% of opponents when they’re truly locked in. But like Gilbert, Kirby’s consistency boosts his ranking significantly. I’m not worried about him falling off a cliff performance-wise. His game is too stable for that.
The reason Kirby isn’t higher on the list is simple: There aren’t many pitchers higher on the list. If you’re looking for consistency in pitching, call the Mariners. They might laugh at you and hang up the phone, sure, but they have what everyone else wants in that particular category.
| Five-Year WAR | 12.5 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2028 |
| Previous Rank | – |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2025 | 27 | 2.7 | Pre-Arb |
| 2026 | 28 | 2.7 | Arb 1 |
| 2027 | 29 | 2.6 | Arb 2 |
| 2028 | 30 | 2.4 | Arb 3 |
Distinguishing between Ragans and Kirby was really difficult. I have them and the Skubal/Gilbert duo in the same tier, but I definitely think there’s a gap between the top two and the bottom two. I think there’s almost nothing separating Ragans and Kirby, though. They’re the same age. They’ll both hit free agency after the 2028 season. In the past calendar year, Ragans has a 3.23 ERA to Kirby’s 3.20, and a 2.75 FIP to Kirby’s 2.74. He’s pitched 122.2 innings; Kirby has pitched 123.2. Results-wise, they’re mirror images.
Ragans gets to his statistics differently, obviously. He’s a strikeout pitcher learning command, rather than the inverse. Our stuff models love almost all of his pitches, and I think they’re probably underestimating him even still. Ragans attacks with everything, throwing five pitches 10% of the time or more. Guys with kitchen-sink pitch mixes are usually using quantity to replace quality; Ragans has both, which means I think there’s room to refine his arsenal even further.
ZiPS hasn’t bought into his rise just yet, but I’m a lot more interested in overriding the model when it comes to pitchers. Ragans is pretty clearly a different guy than he was in Texas, and he’s been extremely consistent for 33 starts now, a chunky sample. I’d buy that his range of outcomes is wider than Kirby, but I don’t think it’s lower, just tail-ier, for lack of a better word. There are more worlds where Ragans is the best pitcher in baseball and more worlds where he’s average or unavailable.
This group of pitchers makes for another nice breakpoint in the list. All four of them are pretty clearly ahead of everyone behind them on the list in my eyes. I didn’t have any of them much higher at any point in this exercise, either. I’ve mentioned that bright dividing lines are rare when you’re lining up trade value, but for me at least, there’s one right here, between the top 20 and the four elite pitchers who are knocking on the door.
| Rk | Pv | Player | Age | 2025 | 2026 | 2027 | 2028 | 2029 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 21 | – | Cole Ragans | 26 | 2.7 Pre-Arb |
2.7 Arb 1 |
2.6 Arb 2 |
2.4 Arb 3 |
|
| 22 | 26 | George Kirby | 26 | 3.9 Arb 1 |
3.7 Arb 2 |
3.6 Arb 3 |
3.3 Arb 4 |
|
| 23 | 33 | Logan Gilbert | 27 | 4.2 Arb 2 |
3.8 Arb 3 |
3.4 Arb 4 |
||
| 24 | – | Tarik Skubal | 27 | 3.8 Arb 2 |
3.6 Arb 3 |
|||
| 25 | – | Jackson Chourio | 20 | 2.0 $4.3 M |
2.5 $7.3 M |
2.6 $8.3 M |
2.8 $9.3 M |
3.0 $15.3 M |
| 26 | HM | Patrick Bailey | 25 | 3.4 Pre-Arb |
3.4 Arb 1 |
3.3 Arb 2 |
3.3 Arb 3 |
2.9 Arb 4 |
| 27 | HM | William Contreras | 26 | 3.6 Arb 1 |
3.5 Arb 2 |
3.2 Arb 3 |
||
| 28 | 14 | Luis Robert Jr. | 26 | 2.9 $15.0 M |
2.9 $20.0 M |
2.9 $20.0 M |
||
| 29 | – | Jordan Westburg | 25 | 3.9 Pre-Arb |
4.0 Pre-Arb |
4.0 Arb 1 |
4.1 Arb 2 |
3.5 Arb 3 |
| 30 | – | Steven Kwan | 26 | 3.6 Arb 1 |
3.2 Arb 2 |
3.0 Arb 3 |
||
| 31 | – | Masyn Winn | 22 | 3.1 Pre-Arb |
3.2 Pre-Arb |
3.4 Arb 1 |
3.8 Arb 2 |
3.8 Arb 3 |
| 32 | – | CJ Abrams | 23 | 3.2 Arb 1 |
3.4 Arb 2 |
3.4 Arb 3 |
3.5 Arb 4 |
|
| 33 | 23 | Francisco Alvarez | 22 | 2.5 Pre-Arb |
2.8 Arb 1 |
3.0 Arb 2 |
3.3 Arb 3 |
|
| 34 | – | Gabriel Moreno | 24 | 3.8 Pre-Arb |
3.8 Arb 1 |
3.7 Arb 2 |
3.7 Arb 3 |
|
| 35 | 50 | James Wood | 21 | 2.4 Pre-Arb |
2.8 Pre-Arb |
3.1 Pre-Arb |
3.5 Arb 1 |
3.6 Arb 2 |
| 36 | – | Wyatt Langford | 22 | 2.6 Pre-Arb |
2.9 Pre-Arb |
3.0 Arb 1 |
3.1 Arb 2 |
2.9 Arb 3 |
| 37 | HM | Jackson Holliday | 20 | 3.3 Pre-Arb |
3.7 Pre-Arb |
4.1 Pre-Arb |
4.4 Arb 1 |
4.7 Arb 2 |
| 38 | 27 | Anthony Volpe | 23 | 3.0 Pre-Arb |
3.2 Arb 1 |
3.4 Arb 2 |
3.5 Arb 3 |
|
| 39 | HM | Ezequiel Tovar | 22 | 3.1 $4.2 M |
3.3 $5.2 M |
3.7 $8.2 M |
3.8 $11.2 M |
3.9 $14.2 M |
| 40 | 38 | Zach Neto | 23 | 2.6 Pre-Arb |
2.9 Arb 1 |
3.2 Arb 2 |
3.2 Arb 3 |
3.4 Arb 4 |
| 41 | – | Bryce Harper | 31 | 3.8 $27.5 M |
3.2 $27.5 M |
2.5 $27.5 M |
1.9 $27.5 M |
1.3 $23.5 M |
| 42 | HM | Corey Seager | 30 | 4.7 $32.5 M |
4.1 $31.5 M |
3.3 $31.5 M |
2.5 $31.5 M |
1.7 $31.5 M |
| 43 | HM | Ketel Marte | 30 | 4.5 $16.6 M |
3.8 $16.6 M |
3.0 $14.6 M |
2.4 $13.0 M |
|
| 44 | HM | Francisco Lindor | 30 | 5.4 $34.1 M |
4.9 $34.1 M |
4.2 $34.1 M |
3.2 $34.1 M |
2.4 $34.1 M |
| 45 | – | Jared Jones | 22 | 2.2 Pre-Arb |
2.4 Pre-Arb |
2.4 Arb 1 |
2.4 Arb 2 |
2.4 Arb 3 |
| 46 | – | Grayson Rodriguez | 24 | 2.2 Pre-Arb |
2.2 Pre-Arb |
2.2 Arb 1 |
2.1 Arb 2 |
2.0 Arb 3 |
| 47 | – | Tanner Bibee | 25 | 2.9 Pre-Arb |
2.8 Arb 1 |
2.7 Arb 2 |
2.5 Arb 3 |
|
| 48 | 41 | Hunter Greene | 24 | 2.5 $6.3 M |
2.5 $8.3 M |
2.5 $15.3 M |
2.3 $16.3 M |
2.3 $21.0 M |
| 49 | HM | Justin Steele | 28 | 3.2 Arb 2 |
2.9 Arb 3 |
2.7 Arb 4 |
||
| 50 | – | MacKenzie Gore | 25 | 2.1 Arb 1 |
2.1 Arb 2 |
2.0 Arb 3 |
Ben is a writer at FanGraphs. He can be found on Bluesky @benclemens.
I think Ohtani is top 20 since he wasn’t mentioned yet and was on the list last year, but is Judge top 20 as well? How do you account for the downside risk of those contracts if they go Mike Trout or worse?
Judge is putting up a season comparable to his 2022 season that is going to shift his future projections to some degree.
I think the injury issues for the two above are less deleterious than they were for Trout, as well. Ohtani is always available as a DH and produces so much value that even without his pitching WAR, he’s still valuable on that deal. He’s also the youngest of the three. Judge has injury issues too, but they seem like less red-flag issues than Trout had with his back.
Judge has huge red flag injury issues, but much like Trout before him, he’s the best hitter in baseball at the moment so you’re willing to overlook it.
Outside of the hbp broken wrist (a freak injury) that took him out in 2018, all of Judges’ injuries have been typical strains and sprains. Sure, he’s an injury risk due to his sheer size, but it’s not a red flag. He hasn’t shown any signs of things like Stanton’s brittle bones or Trout’s degenerative back condition. And he hasn’t had repetitive injuries like the concussion issues that can fell catchers, or repeated arm or shoulder strains.
I don’t consider that “red flag” injury issues. Issues yes. But Trout’s back is on a different level.
Soft tissue injuries like typical strains and sprains are absolutely red flags because those are essentially engine warning lights that something will break down soon.
Spoken like someone who is under 35 😉
Perhaps the Angels should think of Trout as a DH moving forward? He’s probably still a top-5 hitter in the league. Top-10 for sure.
Yes but he’d have to agree.
Crazy to think that Judge signed this massive contract after his Mantle-esque season. Yet, what he’s done since then is still probably in the top 10% of possible outcomes at the time of signing.
I don’t think you worry about downside. You worry about what is the best way to spend $45 million per year in a $250 million budget. Aaron Judge or Shohei Ohtani or 2 of JT Realmuto or Teoscar Hernandez or Pete Alonso. The downside is the same in spending $250 million on injured players whether it’s one all-time great or 2 above average but not great dudes.
Jackson Chourio’s spot… that’s the discussion item. If he just took the Apr/May to figure out MLB, and is that guy since ~June 1st, which would be consistent with his performance at new levels while in the minors, he might be a star now. Since June started, his wOBA, K%, hard hit %, Contact %, BB %, LD %, etc are all impressive. If he’s already that level player, with that contract, he’d be #1 on this list. And of course the floor, if he’s the April / May player.
I think it’s fair to rank him here precisely because of that uncertainty. There’s encouraging signs galore, but he did take a small step back from the absolutely blistering pace he set in June, largely in the power department. And that’s where you can quibble.
He has all the speed and defensive instincts you could ever ask for in an outfielder plus a solid arm, and he makes good contact at a high rate. The raw power and chase rate are the sticking points.
Chourio is not a patient hitter and doesn’t necessarily hit much harder than the average, and he’s currently hitting the ball into the ground half the time. Nothing that’s a red or even yellow flag (and he’s making adjustments), but there’s enough questions that it’s fair to not rank him super aggressively this early in his career. This is a kid with only 341 PA above AA-ball.
The only real concern I have is that he seems to have some issues with velocity. Not terrible issues, and he’s improved from the start of the year, but he hasn’t hit well against fastballs at all. Not in that he can’t hit them, but that he hits them into the ground or as an easy flyout a lot.
He’s definitely late on fastballs a lot. and has pulled just one for a homer. Of course that was a 440 foot bomb just this week on an up and in 98mph heater, and he certainly has plus bat speed, so I’m hopeful that he’ll start to do more damage.
I know there’s a lot of control here and he’s currently a monster, but I have a hard time believing teams would be willing to trade more for Ragans than the rest of the guys in this tier given his injury history (not to mention recent declining fastball velocity). This is a guy who not only had TJ but needed an immediate revision, who also underwent a massive velo spike as he moved to the rotation.
I see his injury risk in a very similar way I see Crochet, and while he has an additional 2 years of control, the risk is so high and track record is so short that I think you have to value him a bit lower. Even knowing how hard pitcher injuries are to predict, I’d much rather hitch my wagon to guys like Kirby or Gilbert.
My thoughts exactly. Kirby’s track record is so much longer that I (and projections) still prefer him skills-wise but I can see how some could view them similarly in terms of true talent. But to rank Ragans above Kirby seems to be ignoring any evaluation of injury risk entirely. And there’s the fact that Ragans new talent-level is linked to the 2023 velo increase that seems tenuous at the moment.
I’m piggybacking off your comment to talk more about Ragans, but not actually disagreeing with you.
I just think it’s remarkable that the Rangers, who were led by a former pitcher, misunderstood Ragans to the degree that a guy in the top 25 for trade value was traded for Rental Aroldis Chapman. He became this guy more or less immediately upon trading and my understanding is that he had already done the work and learned the skills, the Rangers just weren’t giving him an opportunity. Wonder what kind of learning has taken place in that front office after that.
Justin Slaten was just Rule 5’d from a very thin Rangers bullpen group and is putting up a very good rookie season in Boston, too.
Agreed. I’d take every other pitcher in this tier over Ragans. Ragans just doesn’t have a track record.
Ragans injury history really isnt any worse than any other pitchers though. He had TJ in 2018, the graft tore during rehab so he had to have it again. Thats really it. I’m not sure why there is this stigma around him that he is made of glass. He hasnt had any injuries for like 5 years.
His injury history isn’t awful, but his numbers in the majors so far are quite a bit better than anything he did in the minors.
Not much I really feel like quibbling about here. I’m one of the people lowest on Robert, because the injury risk and variability don’t inspire a lot of faith as someone I’d like to trade for, but this ranking feels appropriate given the disparate evaluations and results he’s put up over the years, plus the injury risk (the floor is high enough that I don’t think you can rank him any lower; he’s still a strong defender with an above-average bat). Ragans seems a little aggressive? But I don’t think I’d want to move him down much at all; the talent is undeniable and obvious and he’s essentially repeating last season’s results, but better. With pitchers, injury risk feels baked-in, so that’s not something I’m going to get into unless I feel they’re wildly misranked.
Kwan being lower than Contreras makes sense, but I’d personally swap them. Catcher defense is finnicky in shorter windows and for guys with spotty track records, and Kwan is the better hitter by a little bit (plus an elite, utterly stable defender and baserunner), with the same amount of team control. Might just be Guardians’ bias, since Kwan is one of my all-time favorites, but it was something I felt I should mention. Catchers are inherently more valuable as trade chips, but I’m cautious for most of them. Bailey feels right given that his defense is unquestionably great, and the bat’s development looks real and similar to his minor league performance.
I agree on Robert, not just because of the injury risk but because I don’t know how long his (lack of) approach at the plate is going to work given that even in his prime it’s a barely acceptable OBP.
Whether it’s Tim Anderson or Javy Baez, we know that guys without any thought process at the plate fall off a cliff early, and when they fall they fall hard.
To be fair, unlike those guys, he is at least trying to make adjustments. And he has more power than both of them (Baez could hit the ball similarly hard, but didn’t do it enough outside of his peak years), and makes more contact than Baez. That is his floor, but he seems less likely to sink that far, if that makes any sense.
Really enjoying this series–thanks Ben!
The Murphy-Contreras trade is so interesting.
Process Wise
Brewers: Make that trade 100 times out of 100. Insert yourself in to another team’s trade to send out a middling outfield prospect for 5 years of control of a catcher who’s shown he can hit and needs help specifically with the thing your organization does better than anybody else, improve catcher defense. Plus some valuable bullpen help on top for good measure.
Braves: Still some questions after Contreras outperformed his offensive inputs in 2022 with meh defense so they jumped at the chance to acquire and extend a more all around catcher, specifically one to control the run game with the changes that offseason. Plus getting him out of the spacious park and see if those inputs play better somewhere smaller. Good process, unless you think the Braves could have done anything approaching what the Brewers can do with catchers (unlikely)
A’s: Didn’t want Contreras because of the other catching prospects they had? Maybe they didn’t trust the bat? Maybe they went after Ruiz for those same stealing rule changes? Sought out pitchers with control issues, which they haven’t shown a tendency to really fix. I just don’t care about logjams until you are a contending team trying to win today, and it was clear at the time that Contreras was the second most valuable piece in that trade. He likely wouldn’t have improved on defense as much but he’d likely still be a top 2 most valuable player in the organization.
Did they not also have some comparable offer from the Cardinals on the table? The snubbing of which led to the whole saga with the other Contreras v Cards organization last year
I never heard about the Cardinals being snubbed in any catcher trade proposals that offseason. They were the ones doing the snubbing as far as I’m aware.
Meanwhile, I don’t think an issue lasting just a week really counts as a “saga.”
Sorry I worded that poorly, I agree with you on the Cardinals doing the snubbing. It just seemed like a more valuable package was expected from them since they had better prospects/young major leaguers available? Regardless , not sure how much truth there is to that.
On the other point, I’m sticking with saga. It was just so ridiculous, early in the first year of 5 year contract they went out of their way to publicly say he couldn’t catch
That trade was kind of like the Trea Turner trade, where the Rays got Souza and Padres got Myers and the Nationals inserted themselves to take the best player. The Brewers had no business being in the Contreras trade, and neither did the Nationals with Turner. They just stepped in because someone in the Rays / A’s front office was clearly overthinking it and blew a chance to get a potentially elite up the middle player.
Yeah, the Brewers definitely seem like the winners, but I stand by believing the Braves won if you include the contract extension as a known part of the trade. Murphy has struggled for about a year now, which is worrisome and I think his placement as honorable mention is if anything too generous, but there’s no reasonable way the Braves could have known all of this.
I think it’s a situation without a defined winner between the Braves and Brewers (though I would choose the Brewers if I were forced to pick 1 winner from the trade) because each got what they wanted.
The Braves got the finished product with superior defense who was amenable to a cheap extension while the Brewers got 5 years of a great hitter and ok catcher that they were able to develop into one of the ~30 most valuable players in the league
I think I worded that poorly. To me, the Brewers clearly won looking at what has happened, but I think it was very reasonable to believe at the time Murphy signed the extension that the Braves won the trade. The Brewers got like a 98th percentile outcome out of Contrares. Even with the benefit of hindsight, who knows if Contrares’ defense would have improved had the Braves not traded him?
Who knew that a catcher going to the Brewers was going to improve his defense….?
I agree with all the takes about Robert but the thing about trade value is that you don’t have to have complete agreement across the league. Two or three GM’s who desperately want to take a chance on his health will drive up the price.
I also like what you said about pitchers in Skubal’s write-up. They are all injury risks but you need a lot of them if you want to be a good baseball team. Since they are injury risks, you need even more of them. Thing is, I think a lot of GM’s (or more likely, their owners) are in denial over that fact. Not enough to mean that the guys listed today wouldn’t bring back big hauls (see what I said about Robert), but enough that their teams will never be competitive for any sustained length of time.
I think the pitcher’s rankings here are related to the fact that almost all of them from last year are not on the list. Not that I agree with leaving off Spencer Strider entirely, and I think guys like McClanahan deserved to be on it last year. But it says something about pitchers in general that so many of them slid off it.
That said, the odd thing is that because they are so volatile, they’re also relatively rare. And so I believe that despite the fact that they’re all risky and half of them could slide off it next year that teams would still give up way more for someone like Gilbert or Kirby or Skubal than this list indicates.
“But it says something about pitchers in general that so many of them slid off it.”
All it says is that the author doesn’t value injured pitchers.
I know you can’t really say this, but to me it certainly seems like the Mariners pitchers have lower injury risks just by history, and how they look on the mound. Neither looks anywhere near max, which seems to be the mariners style.
This is something that really doesn’t get noticed enough in the endless Talmudic quibbling about these lists (which I love, to be clear). In fact it should only take one team that’s in love with a particular guy, however irrationally as long as it’s reported by trustworthy sources within the game, to send him shooting up the ranks. The current rubric is quite clear that it’s not supposed to capture any sense of the “correct” value of players, but rather to capture their value in the actually existing 30-team market.
Like, Shelby Miller should’ve been near the top of the 2017 list (if it were based on this conception of value — which I don’t think it was, as this has shifted somewhat over time and between authors).
Link? I was def in fangraphs around that time, but that’s a write up and comments j want to see!
Sorry, every time I try to post a link in a Fangraphs comment I get sent to the “spam” oubliette. I got the year wrong to make my point anyhow, but I went back and checked just to be sure, and Miller was (of course) never on the 2015-16 lists. Anyway, at that point the lists were being done by Dave Cameron and were focused on surplus value rather than industry perception or an attempt to estimate the actual trade market.
So Ryan Helsley doesn’t make the list and isn’t even an honorable mention?! Not that I think he belongs this high up, but how could he not even be an HM?! The guy has been a stud closer for 3 years running, only broken up by a 2-month IL stint last year, and he still has 2 remaining years of control. Sure, relief pitchers in general don’t have a lot of value, but an exception has always been made for proven closers. This is a list of actual trade value, not merely a list of projected WAR compared to salary.
Relievers just aren’t that valuable due to their variance in production and susceptibility to breaking. A few years ago the Cubs traded Kimbrel (not on the top 50) for Madrigal+(who was in the top 50). Obviously a bad look for that year’s list, but looking at the top 50 this year, is there any team that would trade one of these players straight up for Helsley? I don’t think there is.
Helsley is fantastic, but team control is also a factor, in addition to what scotth855 already said. He’s only controllable for one year after this one. If teams were going to give up top-whatever prospects for a reliever, it’d be one they can control for a longer window, and Mason Miller only made the list as an Honorable Mention. And Emmanuel Clase, who is both more controllable and outright better than Helsley, didn’t even make that.
Andrew Miller was traded for 2 top-100 prospects plus some other pieces. That’s certainly a lot more than some of the people on the list would fetch in a trade.
Particularly because of their elevated value during the playoffs, a top reliever can return quite a bit if they’re moved at the trade deadline. Far more than their WAR alone would suggest.
True, but that was literally eight years ago. The evaluations of those guys have changed a lot.
Apologies if I made anyone feel old with that comment. I certainly feel that way now…
It’s cool, for a minute I’ll pretend that I can still eat whatever I want at any time of day without upsetting my stomach & that Andrew Miller is still an elite closer.
“True, but that was literally eight years ago. The evaluations of those guys have changed a lot.”
In other words, it was recent. And I’d like to see some evidence that evaluations of those guys has changed a lot.
Part of the problem is that there aren’t a lof of them to begin with. And they don’t get traded often. So it makes it hard to know what they’d fetch.
That being said, the Miller trade worked out fantastically for Cleveland. Anyone looking at that trade would have to see the positive upside benefit. Throw in the fact that Clase has two more years of control than Miller did when he was traded, and is on a team-friendly contract that includes two years of injury protection, and my guess is that (at a minimum) he would bring back a similar package.
In fact, here’s what Steve Adams of MLB Trade Rumors had to say in the offseason:
“Clase could arguably command an even larger haul, potentially netting the Guardians multiple top-100 prospects and/or young MLB-ready players.”
The last big trade that was headlined by a reliever was Kimbrel for Madrigal and Kodi Heuer at the 2021 deadline. Which wasn’t even that big. Madrigal was a 55 FV player by Fangraphs evaluations (where they were higher than the consensus), true, but Heuer was a 45. The value there was that they were MLB-ready.
You could include Hader to the Padres at the 2022 deadline, but Ruiz and Gasser were 40 FV at that point, Lamet was a fringe reliever at that point, and Taylor Rogers had a 4.35 ERA at the time of the trade and looked like he was having issues (which was borne out as he flatlined in Milwaukee). It turned out well for the Brewers because of Gasser’s development and Ruiz’s inclusion in the William Contreras swap, but that’s not how the deal looked at the time.
Paul Sewald for Josh Rojas (a skills-over-tools guy who had played his way out of an everyday role at the time of the deal), Ryan Bliss (a 40 FV), and Dom Canzone (40 FV) at the 2023 deadline is the only other larger-than-average reliever trade that I can think of.
I guess there was Jordan Hicks for Sem Robberise (40+ FV) and Adam Kloffenstein (40 FV), but that’s stretching the idea of an elite reliever a bit.
Great relievers can get you bulk deals and occasionally a good prospect or average young MLB player. But that’s not anywhere near the 2016 Miller/Chapman returns.
I’d include Edwin Diaz to the Mets. Seattle got Kelenic but had to take Cano.
That was six years ago. And also an offseason trade.
8 years is not recent. That’s a completely different era from today’s
Chapman for Gleyber Torres, McKinney, Adam Warren was that summer, too.
Andrew Miller had one of the weirder career arcs of anyone. High draft pick & huge prospect that was the centerpiece of the Detroit Miguel Cabrera trade, floundered for 5 years, remade himself in Boston as a great BP arm, then may have been the best reliever in baseball for 4-5 years, topped by dominating the playoffs & Cleveland almost winning the WS riding him in every close late inning affair…then poof, he was not as good & injury prone & then done.
Yeah, that was also wild. An everyday MR who can be a setup man, a 55 FV, a 40+, and a 35+ lottery ticket in Rashad Crawford (never panned out, but hey) for like… three months of Aroldis Chapman if you include the playoffs. Flags fly forever, but that was a pretty big return.
Also, Helsley is not Andrew Miller. Not even close. Miller was a guy who could go multiple innings while pitching frequently, come in with guys on base, etc. Helsley would break into a million pieces if anyone tried to use him that way.
I thought Madrigal was overrated at the time as a player with a very low ceiling whose ‘high’ floor was overestimated.
I’ve argued before that they should create a separate list for relievers if they’re not going to include them on the main list. You can’t tell me that Emmanual Clase wouldn’t bring back a ton if the Guardians decided to trade him.
Would Emmanuel Clase bring back more than Mackenzie Gore or Hunter Greene or Justin Steele? I think the answer is “no” so he doesn’t belong here.
Maybe there’s interest in a ‘which reliever would bring back the most in a trade’ series but that’s not a particularly fascinating question for me. I am interested in this series because it raises weird and unrealistic hypotheticals; in reality not many of the guys on this list are getting traded, and we all know that, which makes it fun. Whereas there are interesting relievers moved on a much more regular basis, we get real-time feedback on what good relievers are worth every summer.
I mean, I didn’t make any definitive statements about whether or not Clase (or Miller) would bring back more than anyone on this list.
But I also think it’s an open question and one that’s hard to evaluate. Part of the problem is the lack of data. Teams rarely trade away young starters with lots of team control. And there are very few Clase’s and Miller’s and they don’t get traded often either.
That being said, we do have fairly recent examples of top relievers bringing back more than might be expected. Particularly when they’re traded near the trade deadline, when teams are looking for someone to give them high-leverage innings during the playoffs.
“Fairly recent” is doing some helpful obfuscation for your argument here. Eight years is a long time given the recent shifts in analytics driving FO decision-making across the league. Those Miller and Chapman and Diaz deals wouldn’t happen today.
Clase would bring back a lot compared to most of the league but compared to Kwan or Bibee? No, he would not. And Helsley has a whole lot less team control than him.
You said it. Relief pitchers in general don’t have a lot of value. They are all flawed (thus relievers), don’t have much of a shelf life, and are more fungible than anyone likes to talk about. Other than the fame of the saves, there isn’t THAT much space between Hunter Harvey and Ryan Helsley … and look what the one just traded for. A nice deal, but nothing crazy.
Yeah, Mason Miller is having a year at least as good as Helsley ever had (unless you’re really leaning on Helsley’s >90% strand rate in ’21), he has four more years of control, even if you think he misses two whole years to injury that’s two more years, and he didn’t make the top 50.
Look at the bottom tier of the top 50. Those starters are on teams that are out of it this year, that are locks to make it this year, and that are currently on the bubble. Would any of them trade that guy for Helsley?
Two years of a reliever isn’t cracking this list dude
But…but..he’s a Cardinal!
Last year Felix Bautista was on track to have one of the best reliever seasons of all time, wasn’t even in arb yet and didn’t even make the honorable mentions. This was before he got hurt as well. A pitcher like Helsley not making this list isn’t a new development.
You’re going to hear this from annoying Red Sox fans like me in every one of these articles, so here goes! Kwan and Robert are both a year younger than Jarren Duran but both also have one less year of team control (with Robert’s control being a bit pricey). Robert’s projected WAR: 2.9/2.9/2.9; Kwan: 3.6/3.2/3.0. Based on Duran’s ROS projections, his four years of control would look something like: 3.5/3.1/2.7/2.3. He seems like a similar or better value than these fellas.
The fan consensus seems like ranking him in the upper end of the previous piece is about right (I personally have him at 31 due to some uncertainty with his defense and launch angle stickiness, whereas Kwan’s floor is similar to his underrating ZiPS projections), so honestly? Seems like most of the readers are on a similar page. The joke of Durran being the next recipient of the Yoan Moncada/Bryan Reynolds/Riley Greene “why isn’t he ranked” award is real xD
I think 30-40 range sounds good for Duran, and that would put him only slightly behind Kwan (28) and Robert (30). I think they’re similarly valuable.
Nah, there is really no case for putting him any higher than the same tier as Abrams. I think he’s probably more like #40, having a huge year but with some question marks. You know what you’re getting with Kwan. (Robert is…divisive)
Do I know what I am getting with Kwan? He’s a babip player, those guys arent reliable year to year.
His threes seasons in the majors:
.298 (126 wrc+)
.268 (100)
.347 (161)
I’m fine with Duran at 40 with these two at 28 and 30. I see Duran as having somewhat similar value to these two, but I can see the argument that they are slightly ahead.
They have track records that he does not (yet) have. Duran’s offensive performance last year and this are via BABIPs of .352 and .381, and this is the first year he’s ever been in the black in defensive value.
He strikes out at an average rate, but he doesn’t make nearly as much as Kwan (who does) nor does he regularly obliterate the ball upon contact like Robert. And, again, they both have much bigger sample sizes of great defense than he does.
To be fair, Duran’s BABIPs look pretty legit between his contact quality and his elite speed. None of the contact quality metrics look out of line with his actual performance, nor that far removed from what Robert has done the last few seasons. And he’s been 93rd percentile or better sprint speed his whole career (95th this year).
Duran’s performance thus far this year doesn’t have any red flags, I agree! Looking great. But the previous years were definitely not up to par with Robert or Kwan, so again— simply need to see more than a great half-season at age 27.
It’s not a great half season at 27. It’s a All-Star-level 2/3 of a season at 26 and an MVP-level 2/3 of a season at 27.
You’re also selling the rest of Duran’s track record a little short.By 2021, he was a top 50ish prospect, then continued to play well in AAA but struggled in the majors in 2021 and 2022. His rebound in 2023 put him back on track.
Of course, no one expected what he’s doing this year and no one expects it to continue, or he’d be closer to #1 on this list.
His defense, contact rates, power, etc. are all baked into his projection. Here are their rest of season FGDC projections:
Robert: 1.4 WAR
Kwan: 1.6 WAR
Duran 1.3 WAR
Yes, there’s a wider range of outcomes for Duran but that works both ways. And even if you’re convinced that Robert and Kwan have an edge over Duran, you have to account for the fact that Duran is under control for an extra year.
I think list is more off this year than ever.
Would anyone trade Hunter Greene for Steven Kwan? I don’t think so
Would anyone trade (most of the players 29-50+) for Luis Robert? Doubtful
I like the players. The order is all off in my mind.
No matter how off a list may seem, nothing will top the 2021 list for how shocking some of it was.
Using these as “I wouldn’t trade x guy for y other guy” is one of the things Dan Szymborski would probably smack people for. That’s not what the list is about. It’s “would I trade this package for x guy or y other guy”. How much would they get back in a trade relative to other guys on the list.
If the list is context-neutral (which it has to be, otherwise there’s no point) that’s a distinction without a difference.
It’s context-neutral in terms of which teams are involved in the trades, but not for everything. That’s not actually possible to accomplish.
It’s funny, a non-FanGraphs member has the most comments on here. Quoting Dan like you know him.
Pay the $50 a year dude
Does $50 a year get you personal access to “Dan”? Are you guys friends, dude?
dan gives each and every paying fangraphs member a sweet little kiss on the forehead once a year, actually.
That needs to be listed on the membership benefits page.
I would if I wasn’t living paycheck to paycheck, dude. Not all of us have money for luxuries due to personal situations.
“What?! It’s only 50 dollars!” Yeah. And depending on your situation, that’s a lot of money.
Also, it’s riffing on a joke that Dan makes often. He just made it earlier today in his article. Grow a sense of humor.
If you’re bright enough to make all these assessments on FanGraphs, you’re bright enough to realize that all these sites that we love need to pay the bills. Or they’ll go away
I’m aware of that situation. That doesn’t change my situation of “I need to be able to afford basic cost of living”. 50 dollars a year is a lot of money that I can’t necessarily afford. Could maybe do it month-by-month at that price, but the monthly subscription is $120 per year.
Being snide is also not a good way to get people to sign up.
I suppose Fangraphs has all these ads because the writers enjoy the companies, right?
Subjective obviously, but I would much rather be the side receiving Kwan than Greene. I’m not even buying that Kwan is actually a .160 ISO player, but he’s already shown a floor of being a 3-4 win position player. I’ll take that certainty every day over the variance of a pitcher, and one could argue Greene has more variance than most
Comparing 1for1 trades of guys on this list is pointless.
So, Riley Greene is in the Top 20? Or not on the list again?
He has to be. All those optimistic comps that people throw irresponsibly around when a high school guy is drafted? He’s gone from being the guy where he got irresponsible comps to being the irresponsible comp.
To: Baltimore and Detroit
Trade Jackson Holliday for Tarik Skubal you cowards.
xoxo
Sad
Count me in as one of the people who think Robert is 15 spots too high. I’m pretty sure he’s below Crochet and Crochet was an HM. I love the player when he is playing but I do not believe he is ever going to stay healthy enough to justify giving up a boatload of prospects for him. Clearly some teams disagree, but I would not trade more than two FV50s and even that feels like stretching it. Anything more than that and you are banking on his injuries—which are far too numerous to be a fluke—being related to the White Sox and not him.
(I would also love to hear more about what teams said about Crochet too, I imagine he is probably also kind of divisive)
in his three full years (’21-’23) Robert has averaged 3.5 fWAR per year, injuries and all. That’s not that different from Kwan, even if they are otherwise as polar opposite as it is possible for outfielders to be– and if your squad has a better than replacement level backup CF for when Robert is on the shelf, it seems like a good deal to be getting between 3 and 6 (or higher?) fWAR outta CF.
Also front offices are all over the place. He has had some remarkably bad looking plays in the field that might scare certain types of execs off, for better or worse
Chourio is an interesting case. I thought he was going to hang around on pure athleticism in his first year while he figures it out and becomes a star in year two. That’s the Bobby Witt path, or at least the path before Witt ascended to “starting his Hall of Fame case” levels of production.
So far, the first part of the prediction appears to be true. If he follows the path of becoming a 4 or 5 win player next year then he’s way too low on this list (I don’t think Chourio puts up an 8 win season in year 3, nobody can predict something like that).
So I think I like his spot here, even if it feels weird because he’s just treading water at the moment. He’s kind of still a prospect, and he’s definitely further along than James Wood or Jackson Holliday who are virtually ready themselves. I don’t think he is done yet.
I’m curious where Jackson Merrill ends up, now that we have an anchor in Chourio.
Weird to see that Chourio tier on its own when there’s a pretty obvious comp right now–Colt Keith. Either Keith is ranked higher on the list due to the much lower downside (and similar max cost and age/years) on the deal, or he’s not on the list or an HM at all, which would be really weird given his acceptable defense at an up the middle position and overall slightly better wRC+ than Chourio (although Keith is on fire right now).
Chourio has been the better overall player this year and is over 2.5 years younger. I’m a Colt Keith believer, but give me the 20-year-old producing at an above-average regular rate who’s signed for potentially the next 10 years.
Chourio has been a bit by WAR better factoring in defense (to be expected), but if Keith busts, the tigers are only out Evan white money. If he’s great, the tigers pay basically the same Chourio money and get a bunch of option years too covering Keith’s 20s. Chourio may have more floor as someone who can be a defense first player if the bat fails, but Keith’s contract is far less risky.
Guess I’m saying that Chourio’s placement makes sense, I just don’t think Keith is too far away in either direction and is a weirdly decent comp right now in terms of outcomes so far and surplus value, even if both will get to their value in different ways.
Colt Keith is a lousy 2B defender headed towards DH-ville, Chourio is a + CF defender. They aren’t remotely similar assets.
If Colt Keith reaches his ceiling he will be a lot like Alvin Davis, who was a really good player overall. If Jackson Chourio hits his ceiling we’re talking about guys like Ellis Burks, Dale Murphy, Torii Hunter, guys who are Hall-of-Very-Good. Keith could still end up better but as a probable DH that path is narrow.
Trying to figure out the top 20 and not entirely confident. I feel pretty good about 18 of them in:
Judge
Acuna
Gunnar
Ohtani
Witt Jr
EDLC
Yordan
Greene
Skenes
Julio
Carroll
Tatis
Adley
Betts
Devers
A. Riley
M. Harris
JRam
I’m pretty sure Jackson Merrill is in for 19. That leaves the following players up for the last spot:
Jared Jones
Matt Olson
Tristan Casas
Perhaps I’m not weighing the massive contracts of some of the older veterans enough but would be surprised to see any of them omitted. I’ll go with Jared Jones with the final spot. You can certainly make an argument for Olson based on the reasonableness of his contract and past production but as a 30 year old 1B having a bad year all around and declining defensively, that’s probably enough to scare teams off. Casas is a tougher one but as a plodding 1B that doesn’t have an elite bat and is a below average defender, there’s just too much downside there.
Will Smith will be on there
Good catch. Yes, definitely add Smith and I’ll take off Jones.
A 30 year old 1B making any amount of money and having a down year isn’t making the top 20.
It’s Logan Webb (unless he was overlooked in the Intro article). Seems strange but he’s consistent and on an ideal contract for a SP who is still only 27.
I don’t think Logan Webb is going to make it. He was #16 last year but one less year of control and having a somewhat down year by his standards is probably enough to bump him off the list. You could definitely make an argument for him in the 40’s but highly unlikely he’s top 20.
I agree with that, but dropping from #16 last year to off the list entirely would’ve merited discussion in the intro/HM article. Probably just an oversight.
I stand corrected, looking into this a little more and seeing that Webb signed a very reasonable 5 year extension in the offseason. He very well could be in the top 20. That will be interesting if it leaves Merrrill on the outside and not even a honorable mention. 21 year olds on pace for 4 WAR with 5+ years of team control don’t grow on trees. Not sure if he deserves top 20 but should probably be somewhere on the list and an honorable mention at a minimum.
IIRC Jared Jones was already on the list, around #45. You could make an argument to put him and those other arms around him higher, but not in the Top 20.
You are probably right that Tatis and Austin Riley are very likely on the next section of the list. While I think there are good reasons to put them on a list like this somewhere, I find it hard to justify putting them ahead of some of the players we have already seen on these lists.
Jared Jones was already listed in the 40’s somewhere.
I think it’s these 18 plus Will Smith & Merrill.
Jared Jones was on the list at #45
I’m not sure if Devers is on. He’s owed 280 million after this year!
Or: Seager and Harper are both owed 190 million after this year, and with both of them, you’re expecting them to be superstars for this year, 2025, and 2026, before they (likely) transition to being merely very good.
For Devers to be worth 90 million more than those guys, I’d want him to be a superstar through at least 2028. It could happen! He’s four years younger. But that’s still a long time from now, and it’s not like he’s meaningfully better than those two today. Besides, if you’re trading for an elite, expensive slugger, you probably just don’t care about 2027 and 2028 that much.
I’m nearly certain Devers makes the list. Understand the concerns but he’s 4 years younger than Harper and has 2 more years of control. Plus he plays higher on the defensive spectrum. I would certainly take Harper over Devers today but very unlikely in 2027 and beyond.
As others have brought up, I think Smith, Merrill, and Webb are all likely to be top 20, but that gets us up to 21. I suppose Webb could be off, but I’m inclined to go a different route – is it possible that Harris or (less likely IMO) Carroll miss? Both look, shall we say, not great this year with red flags beyond the surface level stats. I know their contracts are great, but so is Webb’s, and he’s been consistently one of the top pitchers by both performance and durability. I think I’d rather have Webb than either, and between the two I’d take Carroll.
It’s also weird to me that Hoerner wasn’t an honorable mention – his team control feels too short to bump Carroll or Harris, but he’s a consistent 4 WAR player at SS with 2.5 affordable years left. Feels worth making the top 50, and wouldn’t utterly shock me in the top 20.
Looking at the placements for Winn, Gore, and Duran, it seems to me like the final placements were more or less finalized a few weeks back, with little updates since. If thats the case, I expect that Merrill will be left off the list entirely (his hot streak only began around the beginning of June). My guess is that the final 2 spots go to Will Smith and Logan Webb.
Tyler Fitzgerald? 🙂 I kid, obviously. But also holy hell what a run.
It’s not going to be Olson.
some thoughts on Robert: *total* in his three full years (’21-’23) Robert has averaged 3.5 fWAR per year, injuries and all. That’s not that different from Kwan, even if they are as polar opposites as it is possible for outfielders to be.
I think more analytically-oriented teams do value huge rate production when available. Robert is not that scary a proposition if you have good depth, let’s say a Michael A. Taylor-ish 4th OF, a 1.5 fWAR/600PA level CF. Which I’d argue that contending teams should always have, regardless of who their starting CF is.
You have about 700 PA to cover from CF, assuming Robert hits high in the lineup. You’ll get between 300 and 600, historically, PA of on average 4.7 fWAR/600 rate play from Robert– let’s say that varies between 3 and 7 fWAR/600, based on the fWAR rates he’s historically produced.
The worst case, of only 300 PA of 3 fWAR/600 rate play from Robert, nets you about 2.9 fWAR from CF: 1.5 in 300 PA from Robert, 1 in 350 PA from your backup CF. The best cast, 600 PA of 7 fWAR/600 from Robert, gets you about 7.3 fWAR from CF.
So the floor is middle of the pack, and ceiling is best in the league. Right in the middle is 4.9 fWAR per year from CF. Maybe you could round that down a tick or two if your backup CF hits 8th/9th, but that is still top 5 leaguewide production out of center field any year. I do think that is really valuable, no?
Am I the only person who, everytime I see Jordan Westburg’s name, hears that “Dyslexic Heart” song from the Singles soundtrack?
I’m trying to comprehend your comment…
It’s Replacement level!
Greatest Soundtrack ever, check out Paul Westerberg The Replacements tunes as well.
Is that like the song my kids like, “My stupid heart?”