Do Manager Firings Really Change Team Trajectories?

“Throw the bums out!” is a rich American tradition. While most used in the context of the messiness of that whole democracy thing, it’s also applicable to sports. When you’re a fan, especially a passionate one, and things are going horribly wrong for your favorite team, there’s a real sense of wanting the perpetrators of these crimes against excellence to be figuratively carted out in tumbrels and to meet their makers like Danton or Robespierre. And heads do roll in baseball when things are going badly, because someone has to take responsibility for a team’s crapitude, and it’s not going to be the team’s owner. Most often, it’s someone public-facing, as fans will not be appeased by the firing of some relatively anonymous staffer in operations. Since general managers and team presidents get first priority to hold the axe (but not always), and individual coaches don’t usually have wide-enough authority to take responsibility for the whole team, that leaves managers as the common sin eaters.
The moment of catharsis happens, and lo and behold, teams play a lot better, vindicating the demise of the ex-manager. It certainly feels that way, and it’s not the craziest idea in the world to think that there’s something to it. While you would expect teams in the midst of a spate of sucking to be underplaying their talent level rather than overplaying it, when you drive by an accident with a car that’s been unfortunately integrated into a telephone pole, it’s also quite likely that the driver had something to do with it.
Two managers have already been fired this season, after their large-payroll teams with championship aspirations got off to awful starts. Surprisingly, Alex Cora was first to go, as Red Sox chief baseball officer Craig Breslow canned not just Cora, but also anyone on the coaching staff considered to be one of Cora’s guys, on Saturday night after the team started the season 10-17. Then, on Tuesday, the Phillies fired Rob Thomson after they began the year 9-19, a woeful start that included a 10-game losing streak. Four years ago, Thomson became one of the most successful midseason replacement managers ever, as he steered a sinking Phillies ship back from a 22-29 start all the way to the World Series. Mets manager Carlos Mendoza can’t be comfortable about his job security right now, despite the team’s insistence that his job is safe.
(Editor’s note from Matt: As I edit this piece on Thursday afternoon, I keep checking to make sure the Mets haven’t fired Mendoza after yet another brutal loss.)
The point is, the first step for a struggling team that was supposed to be a contender is to get rid of its manager. A fresh start with a new skipper, though, doesn’t automatically mean things are going to get better. So, what’s a realistic expectation for a team that replaces the manager in-season?
There have certainly been occasions when teams made stunning comebacks immediately after replacing their manager. I already mentioned how the Phillies won the NL pennant after firing Joe Girardi. But there’s also the 2004 Astros, who were 44-44 when they replaced Jimy Williams with Phil Garner; they went 48-26 from that point on, made the playoffs, and advanced to the NLCS, where they lost to the Cardinals in seven games. (The next year was the Brad Lidge–Albert Pujols home run year, and that was now more than 20 years ago and I feel really old.) But most of the time, things don’t turn out that well. We just have a tendency to remember the outliers.
But how to measure the effect of a midseason firing, if one exists? I went through every midseason managerial firing/hiring going back to 2004 (so that there’s projection data, but we’ll get to that a little later). I intentionally excluded April and September firings in order to make sure both the incumbents and the replacements got more than a handful of games to influence their teams. After all, it wouldn’t be quite fair to expect, say, Freddie Benavides to meaningfully change the trajectory of the 2024 Reds after David Bell was gratuitously fired with just five games left. I also have not included the games for guys who only filled in for a game or two.
For each of the 40 managerial firing/hiring transactions that have come during the season since the start of 2004, I tallied up the team’s record under the fired skipper and its record under the replacement.
| Team | Manager Fired | W | L | WPct | Manager Hired | W | L | WPct |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2025 Rockies | Bud Black | 7 | 33 | .175 | Warren Schaeffer | 36 | 86 | .295 |
| 2025 Pirates | Derek Shelton | 12 | 26 | .316 | Don Kelly | 59 | 65 | .476 |
| 2025 Orioles | Brandon Hyde | 15 | 28 | .349 | Tony Mansolino | 60 | 59 | .504 |
| 2025 Nationals | Dave Martinez | 37 | 53 | .411 | Miguel Cairo | 29 | 43 | .403 |
| 2024 White Sox | Pedro Grifol | 28 | 89 | .239 | Grady Sizemore | 13 | 32 | .289 |
| 2022 White Sox | Tony La Russa | 63 | 65 | .492 | Miguel Cairo | 18 | 16 | .529 |
| 2022 Rangers | Chris Woodward | 51 | 63 | .447 | Tony Beasley | 17 | 31 | .354 |
| 2022 Phillies | Joe Girardi | 22 | 29 | .431 | Rob Thomson | 65 | 46 | .586 |
| 2022 Blue Jays | Charlie Montoyo | 46 | 42 | .523 | John Schneider | 46 | 28 | .622 |
| 2022 Angels | Joe Maddon | 27 | 29 | .482 | Phil Nevin | 46 | 60 | .434 |
| 2018 Cardinals | Mike Matheny | 47 | 46 | .505 | Mike Shildt | 41 | 28 | .594 |
| 2016 Braves | Fredi González | 9 | 28 | .243 | Brian Snitker | 59 | 65 | .476 |
| 2015 Phillies | Ryne Sandberg | 26 | 48 | .351 | Pete Mackanin | 37 | 51 | .420 |
| 2015 Padres | Bud Black | 32 | 33 | .492 | Pat Murphy | 42 | 54 | .438 |
| 2015 Marlins | Mike Redmond | 16 | 22 | .421 | Dan Jennings | 55 | 69 | .444 |
| 2015 Brewers | Ron Roenicke | 7 | 18 | .280 | Craig Counsell | 61 | 76 | .445 |
| 2014 Astros | Bo Porter | 59 | 79 | .428 | Tom Lawless | 11 | 13 | .458 |
| 2013 Phillies | Charlie Manuel | 53 | 67 | .442 | Ryne Sandberg | 20 | 22 | .476 |
| 2012 Astros | Brad Mills | 39 | 82 | .322 | Tony DeFrancesco | 16 | 25 | .390 |
| 2011 Nationals | Jim Riggleman | 38 | 37 | .507 | Davey Johnson | 40 | 43 | .482 |
| 2011 Marlins | Edwin Rodríguez | 32 | 39 | .451 | Jack McKeon | 40 | 50 | .444 |
| 2011 Athletics | Bob Geren | 27 | 36 | .429 | Bob Melvin | 47 | 52 | .475 |
| 2010 Royals | Trey Hillman | 12 | 23 | .343 | Ned Yost | 55 | 72 | .433 |
| 2010 Orioles | Juan Samuel | 17 | 34 | .333 | Buck Showalter | 34 | 23 | .596 |
| 2010 Orioles | Dave Trembley | 15 | 39 | .278 | Juan Samuel | 17 | 34 | .333 |
| 2010 Marlins | Fredi González | 34 | 36 | .486 | Edwin Rodríguez | 46 | 46 | .500 |
| 2010 Mariners | Don Wakamatsu | 42 | 70 | .375 | Daren Brown | 19 | 31 | .380 |
| 2010 Cubs | Lou Piniella | 51 | 74 | .408 | Mike Quade | 24 | 13 | .649 |
| 2009 Rockies | Clint Hurdle | 18 | 28 | .391 | Jim Tracy | 74 | 42 | .638 |
| 2009 Nationals | Manny Acta | 26 | 61 | .299 | Jim Riggleman | 33 | 42 | .440 |
| 2009 Diamondbacks | Bob Melvin | 12 | 17 | .414 | A.J. Hinch | 58 | 75 | .436 |
| 2008 Mets | Willie Randolph | 34 | 35 | .493 | Jerry Manuel | 55 | 38 | .591 |
| 2008 Mariners | John McLaren | 25 | 47 | .347 | Jim Riggleman | 36 | 54 | .400 |
| 2007 Reds | Jerry Narron | 31 | 51 | .378 | Pete Mackanin | 41 | 39 | .513 |
| 2007 Orioles | Sam Perlozzo | 29 | 40 | .420 | Dave Trembley | 40 | 53 | .430 |
| 2007 Astros | Phil Garner | 58 | 73 | .443 | Cecil Cooper | 15 | 16 | .484 |
| 2005 Reds | Dave Miley | 27 | 43 | .386 | Jerry Narron | 46 | 46 | .500 |
| 2005 Orioles | Lee Mazzilli | 51 | 56 | .477 | Sam Perlozzo | 23 | 32 | .418 |
| 2004 Diamondbacks | Bob Brenly | 29 | 50 | .367 | Al Pedrique | 22 | 61 | .265 |
| 2004 Astros | Jimy Williams | 44 | 44 | .500 | Phil Garner | 48 | 26 | .649 |
| Total | 1248 | 1813 | .414 | 1544 | 1757 | .467 |
(There were two other midseason managerial moves that were not due to a firing. On July 1, 2007, Mike Hargrove unexpectedly resigned as Mariners manager; at the time, Seattle had won eight straight games and was in second place. He didn’t give a reason publicly, though according to his SABR bio, “almost immediately speculation arose that he was forced out because of his increasingly toxic relationship with the team’s star, Ichiro Suzuki.” It’s worth mentioning that his contract was up at the end of the season. Bench coach John McLaren took over for Hargrove. Then, last June, Ray Montgomery replaced Ron Washington as the manager of the Angels when Washington was placed on medical leave. Soon after, Washington underwent quadruple bypass heart surgery.)
On a fundamental level, the teams did play better ball after firing their manager. The teams had a .414 winning percentage when their managers were fired, and the replacements accumulated a .467 winning percentage the rest of the way. Thirty two of the 40 teams saw their record improve. The 2010 Orioles even did it twice, with their .278 winning percentage under Dave Trembley improving to .331 during Juan Samuel’s 51-game stint as skipper; they then played nearly .600 ball after Buck Showalter took over in August.
But how much of this is the manager’s doing, and how much of this is underperforming teams simply regressing toward the mean? After all, Thomson was fired with the Phillies on pace for a 52-110 season, and I don’t think anybody on this planet honestly believes they would have lost 110 games if he had kept his job. You could find a TaB-branded soda machine that hasn’t been plugged in since 1989 from an abandoned Amoco station in Dubuque, Iowa, make that the Phillies manager, and the team would improve on Thomson’s record — and it would have little to do with the magic of saccharin and caramel color.
To get an idea to an extent of the good vibes from new managers, I went back to the point of firing and got rest-of-season projections from the moment the new managers took over. While projections are no doubt going to have significant error bars, they also care little about the good feelings of a new manager, and if managers are changing something fundamental about the roster, you’d expect those teams to exceed their projections as a group. From 2014 on, I used the FanGraphs projected records, since FanGraphs is conveniently updated every morning. For 2004-2013, I ran a ZiPS projected standings for the date, certainly a more time-consuming task, but at least I have the projection data to do it!
| Team | Manager Hired | Proj. W | Proj. L | RoS W | RoS L | WPct |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2025 Rockies | Warren Schaeffer | 47.0 | 75.0 | 36 | 86 | .295 |
| 2025 Pirates | Don Kelly | 59.0 | 65.0 | 59 | 65 | .476 |
| 2025 Orioles | Tony Mansolino | 58.9 | 60.1 | 60 | 59 | .504 |
| 2025 Nationals | Miguel Cairo | 32.9 | 39.1 | 29 | 43 | .403 |
| 2024 White Sox | Grady Sizemore | 17.9 | 27.1 | 13 | 32 | .289 |
| 2022 White Sox | Miguel Cairo | 18.3 | 15.7 | 18 | 16 | .529 |
| 2022 Rangers | Tony Beasley | 21.3 | 26.7 | 17 | 31 | .354 |
| 2022 Phillies | Rob Thomson | 59.2 | 51.8 | 65 | 46 | .586 |
| 2022 Blue Jays | John Schneider | 41.9 | 32.1 | 46 | 28 | .622 |
| 2022 Angels | Phil Nevin | 54.6 | 51.4 | 46 | 60 | .434 |
| 2018 Cardinals | Mike Shildt | 35.5 | 33.5 | 41 | 28 | .594 |
| 2016 Braves | Brian Snitker | 49.6 | 74.4 | 59 | 65 | .476 |
| 2015 Phillies | Pete Mackanin | 35.7 | 52.3 | 37 | 51 | .420 |
| 2015 Padres | Pat Murphy | 49.2 | 46.8 | 42 | 54 | .438 |
| 2015 Marlins | Dan Jennings | 62.1 | 61.9 | 55 | 69 | .444 |
| 2015 Brewers | Craig Counsell | 64.3 | 72.7 | 61 | 76 | .445 |
| 2014 Astros | Tom Lawless | 10.2 | 13.8 | 11 | 13 | .458 |
| 2013 Phillies | Ryne Sandberg | 20.1 | 21.9 | 20 | 22 | .476 |
| 2012 Astros | Tony DeFrancesco | 14.4 | 26.6 | 16 | 25 | .390 |
| 2011 Nationals | Davey Johnson | 40.5 | 42.5 | 40 | 43 | .482 |
| 2011 Marlins | Jack McKeon | 42.8 | 47.2 | 40 | 50 | .444 |
| 2011 Athletics | Bob Melvin | 47.6 | 51.4 | 47 | 52 | .475 |
| 2010 Royals | Ned Yost | 49.9 | 77.1 | 55 | 72 | .433 |
| 2010 Orioles | Buck Showalter | 22.9 | 34.1 | 34 | 23 | .596 |
| 2010 Orioles | Juan Samuel | 21.0 | 30.0 | 17 | 34 | .333 |
| 2010 Marlins | Edwin Rodríguez | 45.1 | 46.9 | 46 | 46 | .500 |
| 2010 Mariners | Daren Brown | 23.3 | 26.7 | 19 | 31 | .380 |
| 2010 Cubs | Mike Quade | 18.5 | 18.5 | 24 | 13 | .649 |
| 2009 Rockies | Jim Tracy | 58.9 | 57.1 | 74 | 42 | .638 |
| 2009 Nationals | Jim Riggleman | 30.9 | 44.1 | 33 | 42 | .440 |
| 2009 Diamondbacks | A.J. Hinch | 68.0 | 65.0 | 58 | 75 | .436 |
| 2008 Mets | Jerry Manuel | 52.3 | 40.7 | 55 | 38 | .591 |
| 2008 Mariners | Jim Riggleman | 40.6 | 49.4 | 36 | 54 | .400 |
| 2007 Reds | Pete Mackanin | 35.2 | 44.8 | 41 | 39 | .513 |
| 2007 Orioles | Dave Trembley | 40.6 | 52.4 | 40 | 53 | .430 |
| 2007 Astros | Cecil Cooper | 15.2 | 15.8 | 15 | 16 | .484 |
| 2005 Reds | Jerry Narron | 39.7 | 52.3 | 46 | 46 | .500 |
| 2005 Orioles | Sam Perlozzo | 27.3 | 27.7 | 23 | 32 | .418 |
| 2004 Diamondbacks | Al Pedrique | 32.2 | 50.8 | 22 | 61 | .265 |
| 2004 Astros | Phil Garner | 40.8 | 33.2 | 48 | 26 | .649 |
| Total | 1545.5 | 1755.5 | 1544 | 1757 | .467 |
Across 3,061 games managed, the new managers won 1.5 fewer games than expected. This is a statistically insignificant difference, of course. Incidentally, this can be taken as yet another data point in favor of the notion that projections aren’t too slow in lowering the projections for underperforming teams. But that’s a piece for another day!
Does this mean that new managers don’t matter? That would be a preposterous conclusion, one too heavily drawn from the information available. It’s certainly quite possible that if these managers had been doing an especially poor job, their teams would’ve continued to fall short of expectations. Taking a team that’s usually playing miserably and at least getting it back on track is a good thing.
But what this does mean is that, at least based on the last couple of decades, new managers shouldn’t fundamentally change how we look at a team’s performance. If the new managers, Don Mattingly and the Non-Diamondback Chad Tracy, get their teams playing like they should, they deserve credit for that. But for those of you expecting sorcery, I’m sorry we live in this thoroughly unmagical world.
Dan Szymborski is a senior writer for FanGraphs and the developer of the ZiPS projection system. He was a writer for ESPN.com from 2010-2018, a regular guest on a number of radio shows and podcasts, and a voting BBWAA member. He also maintains a terrible Twitter account at @DSzymborski.
Team Null Hypothesis wins again!
Holy cow that’s an amazing null result. It begs the ultimate question then, do *managers* even matter?
I do think managers matter, but I think that in the ways that they impact the team, they tend to be conservative and do things mostly by the book, and that book is well-established enough that this is a good enough approach most of the time.
Basically, I think a manager could very negatively impact a team by either total mismanagement of the in-game decisions or by presiding over/causing a clubhouse culture so bad that the team becomes bad. I think the latter happens more often, but in either case bringing in a replacement-level manager who does things by the book will combine with regression to talent level to bring the team somewhat more success. I think a manager who is truly better than average over the long term is pretty rare.
Without following Dan’s suggestion regarding the Tab machine, we’ll never really know.
My hunch here is that actual MLB-level available “replacement” managers are within a narrow-enough band that they don’t provide a large enough delta over a partial season to make the effect visible.
Making a Tab machine manager is also a totally Mets thing that could happen, so we could finally get our data and find out!
They would still give it a 3 year extension worth $5M/yr.
And then it would catch on fire.
Kinda neat that AI’s improving to the point that it can come really close to getting the 1987 Mets’ lineup right (Backman and Dykstra should be flipped), but which Niekro (or “Nieskro”) brother does it think pitched for the Mets, and what is Gary Carter sitting on, because it sure doesn’t look comfortable!
They do because we can see what happens when things go horribly wrong, like with Matt Williams with the Nationals.
A manager’s role is often about mitigating bad things. It’s like wearing a bike helmet. There are a wide array of bike helmets. Some are much safer than others. But they are almost all tested to a certain standard, so they typically provide a minimum level of protection against concussions.
Almost all managers protect their teams to some base level amount, like the bike helmets. Some are better and some are worse. Like managers, bike helmets age after you use them for a long time / crash and you need to get a new one. Organizations know this and there is a certain orthodoxy to hiring a manager so that they meet that base requirement level.
But every so often an organization realizes belatedly that they haven’t actually gotten a manager that meets the minimum safety levels. This is where the metaphor departs. It is not like bicycle riders think they’re riding with a helmet when they really are not. The far more common risk is that they ride without them entirely. But every so often, a team will functionally be riding without a helmet when they have a guy like Matt Williams in charge. And when the crashes start happening the team is hurt.
A totally hilarious yet sensible analogy.
Matt Williams was Manager of the Year his first season with the Nats and was fired after his second season, which reinforces the notion that managerial performance is essentially impossible to measure or define.
I remember there was a study on NBA head coaches a decade or so ago, and the general sentiment was that most coaches were roughly equivalent, but there were an outlier few that seemed to be truly exceptional or absolutely catastrophic. I think the same might hold here.
I think we are also forgetting that managers do a lot of their work in the offseason assembling a staff and making plans for players, as well as in the spring helping develop players. If you get rid of the manager in-season, but the rest of the staff and general team philosophy is the same, I don’t think we’d expect to see much of a difference.
That’s what makes the Red Sox mass firing a little interesting to me because we might expect some more drastic changes to come out of that.
Agree on the Red (Wedding) Sox — that firing was partially record, partially philosophical, and mostly consolidation of power. From that, I’d expect the potential for big swings in how things are done.
So the Red Sox are projected to finish 80-82 and the Phillies are projected to finish 83-79. I doubt either team will be happy if they hit their projections.
I suspect both teams will be happy because that means the season is over.
Another way to approach this would be to compare changes in performance pre- vs. post-firing with changes in performance of teams that didn’t fire their manager. That is, find a set of teams that performed roughly like the teams that fire their managers (i.e. pretty badly). Then check if those teams’ subsequent performance improved about as much as that of the teams that fired their managers.
This analysis has been done for European pro soccer, though I can’t find the link just now. The result is that firing the manager apparently makes no difference; it’s all just regression to the mean.
A diff-in-diff model?
Or some sort of explicit counterfactual model?
To clarify, I am not asking for a full identification proof here. I don’t want that. I don’t think anybody wants that.
Historically, teams with a lead after the 1st inning win about 70% of the time (68-62% most years), and home team has a slight advantage. If the manager was responsible for either the roster or the lineup card, perhaps they can take a degree of credit. Teams with lead going into the 9th inning win at similar rates.
Your list is missing Scott Servais and Dan Wilson on the 2024 Mariners, which was a late-August firing but not as late as the 2014 Astros firing Bo Porter. It wouldn’t really change the overall conclusion much, assuming that’s the only one missing (I didn’t check back more than a few years), but since Dan Wilson overperformed the FanGraphs’ projections by a few games it would flip the table at the end over to 1.6 games more than expected instead of 1.5 fewer.
just wonder if you could do one where you change the GM ala Stearns
you need to check out the variance of these projections, etc. etc. perhaps some teams react very poorly, while some respond very well.