Juan Soto Isn’t Having a Juan Soto Year

The Josh Hader trade isn’t the only deadline deal that has yielded less-than-rewarding results thus far for the Padres. Juan Soto hasn’t been as bad as Hader at his worst (the closer has lately righted the ship), but after a good start for his new team, he’s fallen into a deep slump. As the Padres battle to hold onto the third NL Wild Card spot, his struggles are worth a closer look.
When he was acquired from the Nationals in an eight-player blockbuster on August 2, Soto was in the midst of a solid-but-not-great season by his own high standards. While his 151 wRC+ was only four points off his career mark, his .246/.408/.485 line was far below his typical slash stats (.291/.427/.538) — not enough to be a dealbreaker or to rate as a significant long-term concern, but notable nonetheless. That said, the Padres’ right field mess made my Replacement Level Killers list, and an on-base percentage above .400 will cover a multitude of sins.
Soto debuted with the Padres on August 3, going 1-for-3 with a pair of walks in a 9–1 rout of the Rockies. He continued to hit well (.286/.438/.460 from August 3 to 21), but on August 23, he was scratched from the lineup with what the Padres called “left mid-back tightness.” Via MLB.com’s AJ Cassavell, “His back flared up while he was swinging in the batting cage shortly before first pitch. During the game, Soto took further swings in the cage, hoping he might get a chance to pinch-hit, but he wasn’t able to.”
Soto didn’t play again until August 27, though he missed just three games thanks to a schedule that bracketed a two-game series against the Guardians with off days on either side. Upon returning, he collected hits in his first two plate appearances against the Royals’ Daniel Lynch, and the next night homered off Anthony Misiewicz. But in the 13 games since then, he’s gone 3-for-42, all singles, and didn’t collect an RBI until Tuesday night. He’s walked 12 times during that stretch and was hit by a pitch — causing him to leave a September 7 game with a right shoulder contusion, which may be a contributing factor here — en route to a .120/.313/.180 post-injury performance. In all, his six hits over a 15-game span is the second-lowest total of his major league career; he had five hits in 15 games in two overlapping stretches in September 2019.
Is the slump as bad as it looks? My assumption going into this investigation was “probably not,” given that even with his return against the Royals, we’re talking about a total of 64 plate appearances and even fewer batted ball events. With the caveat that this is some small sample spelunking, it’s worth noting that since his absence, Soto has pretty much matched his Statcast stats for the first four and a half months of the season, which is to say that he’s hit the ball as hard, more or less:
| Split | BBE | EV | LA | Barrel% | HardHit% | AVG | xBA | SLG | xSLG | wOBA | xwOBA |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Through Aug. 21 | 333 | 90.8 | 8.8 | 12.6% | 47.1% | .252 | .273 | .481 | .527 | .391 | .415 |
| Since Aug. 27 | 44 | 90.4 | 16.4 | 9.1% | 47.7% | .120 | .234 | .180 | .377 | .253 | .357 |
Soto has produced a similar average exit velo and hard-hit rate and a slightly lower barrel rate (the difference in the smaller sample amounts to falling about two barrels short), but very different expected and actual outcomes. Note the difference in average launch angle; Soto generally ranks among the game’s top power hitters despite the fact that he hits the ball on the ground about half the time (career 48.6% groundball rate) and has an average launch angle below 10 degrees. In fact, since his debut in 2018, he’s one of four players with a slugging percentage above .500 (.528) and an average launch angle below 10 degrees (8.4); the other three — Eloy Jiménez, Vladimir Guerrero Jr., and Christian Yelich — all have SLGs in the .507–.510 range with angles in the 5.9–8.3 degree range. If Soto is averaging 16.4 degrees even for a stretch of time, something is probably off.

A closer look suggests a couple things are amiss. For one, over this short stretch, he’s produced an infield fly ball rate of 37.5%, about five times his career rate. He’s hit seven pop-ups — balls with virtually no chance of becoming hits — during this slump, where we’d expect him to hit about one. For another, he’s pulling the ball about 46% of the time in this span (and around 44% since the trade), compared to about a 36% career rate.
I do wonder if Soto has gotten a bit-pull happy given the dimensions and difficulties of Petco Park. On the one hand, it’s only 322 feet down the right field line thanks to a small section that cuts a notch in the corner, compared to 334 to left. But on the other, Petco still has a park home run factor for lefties of just 95; it’s not an easy place to hit one out.
Whether it’s that or mechanical issues related to his injury (or unrelated, who knows?), the fact remains that even if we expand our focus to include his whole season, Soto’s slash line (.237/.402/.448) and 142 wRC+ are decidedly atypical. Again, his Statcast splits provide a tip-off:
| Season | BBE | EV | LA | Barrel% | HardHit% | AVG | xBA | SLG | xSLG | wOBA | xwOBA |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2018 | 316 | 90.5 | 6.2 | 9.8% | 42.2% | .292 | .262 | .517 | .483 | .392 | .372 |
| 2019 | 416 | 92.0 | 12.5 | 12.3% | 47.8% | .282 | .285 | .548 | .575 | .394 | .409 |
| 2020 | 126 | 92.1 | 4.3 | 18.3% | 51.6% | .351 | .332 | .695 | .696 | .478 | .475 |
| 2021 | 414 | 93.0 | 5.8 | 13.3% | 52.7% | .313 | .305 | .534 | .545 | .420 | .429 |
| 2022 | 377 | 90.7 | 9.7 | 12.2% | 47.3% | .237 | .269 | .448 | .511 | .376 | .408 |
| —WSN | 280 | 90.4 | 8.3 | 12.5% | 46.1% | .246 | .270 | .485 | .525 | .390 | .413 |
| —SDP | 97 | 91.8 | 13.7 | 11.3% | 50.5% | .212 | .266 | .336 | .469 | .333 | .396 |
Soto’s producing his lowest average exit velocity, barrel rate, hard-hit rate, and xWOBA since his 2018 rookie season, as well as his highest average launch angle since ’19. Yet his expected and actual stats have never diverged by this much, particularly in the direction of underperfomance.
Again, Soto’s atypically high average launch angle offers a hint that leads us to this year’s 12.1% infield fly ball rate, the highest mark of his career, 4.5 points above his career mark and 5.4 points above last year’s mark. The 17 infield flies he’s this year are as many as he hit from 2019 to ’21 combined!
Digging deeper onto his Statcast page, Soto is making more poor contact than usual. “Weak” contact is defined as any balls hit below 60 mph, including bunts (of which he has just one this year, his first since 2019). I don’t know the exact parameters for “topped” or “under,” but a combination of common sense and a glance at his radial graphs for 2021 and ’22 (available via the Visuals & Statcast Pitch Highlighter path, which took me awhile to locate) should give you an idea:

The barrels are the red area, solid contact is that pink outline around it, flares/burners are the peach-colored diagonal, topped is the light green area with low launch angles, under is the light blue area with high launch angles, and weak contact is the inner yellow area. Note how much more of the last three areas are filled in on the 2022 graph than the ’21 one. Here’s a table showing his season rates for each type as well as aggregations of the first three (“Poor%”) and the last three (“Good%”):
| Season | Weak% | Topped% | Under% | Flare/Burner% | Solid% | Barrel% | Poor | Good |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2018 | 3.8% | 38.9% | 15.5% | 23.4% | 7.3% | 9.8% | 58.2% | 40.5% |
| 2019 | 2.6% | 29.3% | 21.4% | 25.5% | 8.7% | 12.3% | 53.3% | 46.5% |
| 2020 | 2.4% | 36.5% | 11.9% | 24.6% | 6.3% | 18.3% | 50.8% | 49.2% |
| 2021 | 3.1% | 37.4% | 17.1% | 23.4% | 5.3% | 13.3% | 57.6% | 42.0% |
| 2022 | 4.5% | 35.1% | 22.9% | 17.8% | 7.4% | 12.2% | 62.5% | 37.4% |
Baseball is hard! Even an elite hitter like Soto makes poor contact more than half the time he connects. But this year, he’s been making a lot more of it than usual, particularly when it comes to getting under balls; that’s a lot of pop-ups and routine fly outs.
But wait, there’s more! Within that already poor contact, Soto’s been worse than expected:
| Season | Poor% | AVG | xBA | SLG | xSLG | wOBA | xwOBA |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2018 | 58.2% | .168 | .130 | .212 | .165 | .165 | .134 |
| 2019 | 53.4% | .115 | .116 | .156 | .159 | .112 | .119 |
| 2020 | 50.8% | .172 | .133 | .188 | .160 | .157 | .133 |
| 2021 | 57.7% | .164 | .149 | .197 | .180 | .156 | .147 |
| 2022 | 62.5% | .089 | .129 | .102 | .151 | .084 | .123 |
Woof. Without building more tables, I can report that Soto is underperforming his worst contact when connecting with fastballs (.064 wOBA/.098 xwOBA in 116 PA) and breaking balls (.061 wOBA/.131 xwOBA in 58 PA), which reflects his more generalized performance dips against both pitch classes. Against all fastballs last year, Soto hit .370, slugged .674, and produced a .475 wOBA, but this year he’s down to .283 AVG/.558 SLG and a 442 wOBA. Against all breaking balls, last year he hit .234, slugged .379, and produced a .325 wOBA, but this year those numbers — brace yourselves — are down to .149 AVG/.272 SLG and a .269 wOBA. By Statcast’s pitch values, the drop in his performance against fastballs (from 31 runs to 13 against four-seamers, and from 12 runs to zero against sinkers) is more drastic than against breakers (from 4 runs to -2 against sliders, but from 0 to 1 against curves because he’s whiffing far less), but the latter really isn’t what we expect from this generation’s Ted Williams.
So, yes, Soto is in some kind of slump lately, and in a down year overall, with more trouble than usual against breaking balls and fastballs. Thanks to a 20.7% walk rate, his post-trade 117 wRC+ isn’t a total loss (Padres right fielders had combined for a 76 wRC+ when I made the Killers list). For all of the focus on his woes here and elsewhere, he’s still hitting better than fellow deadline acquisitions Josh Bell and Brandon Drury (both 88 wRC+). And even with these moves not yet panning out, the Padres (78–64) have a two-game lead on the Brewers (76–66) for the third NL Wild Card spot, as well as an 83%–24% edge in terms of our Playoff Odds. Given that Soto is just 23 years old, I think it’s fair to say this isn’t an age-related decline thing, and even with the difficulties that Petco Park presents, it’s probably not a can’t-play-in-San-Diego thing (can one wither in the glare of the gaslamps?). Whether it’s an injury or mechanics, the odds are that he and the Padres will figure it out, but in the meantime, it doesn’t look great.
Brooklyn-based Jay Jaffe is a senior writer for FanGraphs, the author of The Cooperstown Casebook (Thomas Dunne Books, 2017) and the creator of the JAWS (Jaffe WAR Score) metric for Hall of Fame analysis. He founded the Futility Infielder website (2001), was a columnist for Baseball Prospectus (2005-2012) and a contributing writer for Sports Illustrated (2012-2018). He has been a recurring guest on MLB Network and a member of the BBWAA since 2011, and a Hall of Fame voter since 2021. Follow him on BlueSky @jayjaffe.bsky.social.
Padre fan here! And I am done with him. Another Preller L of a trade. We either need to bench him or send him to AAA.
Honestly, I think Preller really really really needs to look at what the Giants and Dodgers have done w player development
That’s 100% been the differencemaker for the Padres I think the last couple yrs.
They ahve all the talent to win 95+ games, but they just don’t get the best versions of the players they get b/c of their 20th century player dev system
>[Player development]’s 100% been the difference maker for the Padres I think the last couple yrs.
Let me push back here a bit.
I believe the main problem with Padres the past couple of years is that their trades have been bad.
Yes, Tatis for Shields is the most famous lopsided trade in recent years, and Cronenworth trade was brilliant as well.
But that is not enough to cancel out Kemp for Grandal, Myers for Trea Turner, Upton for Fried, Nola for France, Clevinger for Quantril & Naylor, etc.
Braves fans thank the Padres every 5 days for Max Fried.
Dodgers fan here! We’ll take him off your hands, no problem.
Same. I haven’t been impressed. Part of it is also he is clearly not an outfielder.
Do you send all your .400 OBP hitters with a 143 wRC+ to AAA?
Since coming to the Padres he’s hitting .209/.385/.330, which is similar to but better then — although not a lot better than — the 2022 numbers of Aaron Hicks (.209/.324/.293). If Soto is going to hit like this and play defense like this then he’s got a nice career ahead of him as a second-division DH.
“he’s got a nice career ahead of him as a second-division DH”.
I will, uh, take the over.
(I get that he has been a disappointment thus far and not what the Padres expected – fair point, and point taken. But “send the bum to AAA!” and “he’s gonna be a Jeremy Giambi 2nd tier DH” overstates the case just a tad.)
lol 60 points of OBP does not ‘approximate’ Aaron Hicks.
I’m sorry that Juan Soto has ONLY been 18% above league average since he came to the Padres but man you should definitely send him to AAA.
This is such a bad comparison. Even if you cherry pick data (you’re comparing a full season of Hicks vs. the worst month and a half of Soto’s career and season), your comparison is still .100 OPS points off. Soto’s OPS is .715 and Hicks’ is .617.
That would be like me saying 2022 Mookie Betts (.275/.348/.558) is similar to but not a lot better than 2022 Hunter Renfroe (.252/.313/.490).
I could say that, but it would be stupid.
I wish that SweetSpot% was on the leader boards. It is a vastly more useful stat than average launch angle and very frequently explains why a player with good hard hit rates is under or over performing compared to expectations or other players
Hard not to think what Soto’s line would look like had the Padres not traded Eric Hosmer. With Hosmer’s leadership, I don’t think a .500 wOBA for Soto would be out of the question.
Cool meme aside, Hosmer’s august was nothing to write home about: 75 WRC+.
And he’s been displaced by Casas at 1B.
well it would be malpractice for a sub-.500 team to continue to play a replacement-level 1B when their top prospect happens to play 1B as well
I signed in just so I could upvote this 🙂
He is gonna regret not taking that 400+ million deal. Top 5 hitter in the game. Defense below average.
Yup He will need a monster rebound next year to get anywhere near 400 million. Same with Carlos Correa. A good hitter for sure but he thinks he can make more opting out ??? Not a chance he gets what he thinks he is worth.
I dunno; I think SDP is going to feel the need to keep him at all costs given what it took to get him, and I still think Juan Soto at age 23 is going to have plenty of suitors and perhaps even benefit from Judge’s raise (who is significantly more risky)
I believe that Soto will be 26 when he hits free agency, but yeah, he’ll still have his share of suitors.
Soto isn’t going to hit free agency until after the 2024 season and if he has a walk year in 2024 like Judge has had in 2022 then I agree that he will get substantially more money than Judge does. If he keeps playing like he’s playing he will not get anywhere near $400 million.
How likely do you think it is that he will continue to replicate his worst 6 weeks as professional ball player over and over for the next 2 full years?
Correa had better be happy with the Twins.
Unless the Giants want to splurge?
Judge’s crazy season, and the contract it’s going to get him, might mean Soto still ends up getting more. Just has to get back to being his pre-2022 self at the plate, defense or not.
That might be easier said that done. I’m not saying he can’t do it, but “go back to hitting like one of the best hitters of all time” isn’t exactly a walk in the park.
In terms of maximizing his future earnings, I believe you are right. The upside of not taking the contract was another $50M or so in total earnings, and the downside is more like $100M unless he has a catastrophic injury. Given the concern of catastrophic injury, I’d say he erred financially here.
But in terms of reality, I think he’ll be okay as long as he avoids catastrophic injury. He’s going to bank at least another $50M through arbitration, possibly more. In 2025 he’ll be going into his age 26 season, the same age-year combo where Bryce Harper and Manny Machado landed $300M deals (Harper more). Harper was coming off a disappointing year in pretty much every respect aside from staying healthy, and Machado was coming off a great year but one where people were freaking out about his on-field behavior. So $350M is probably what we’re looking at in that scenario. And there are still a lot of scenarios where he winds up in the range of the original $440M money but he also gets to pick where he plays (a not-insignificant factor given the mess Washington was in).
Important that you included “financially” as he also avoided signing with a team that is terrible, has a lot of future dead money to deal with, and prior to trading Soto had a bottom five farm. Also, we don’t really know what the value of his contract was. It was reported as not containing deferrals, but a deal of that length could be heavily backloaded to achieve the same purpose.
Yes, that was absolutely intentional. There are just a lot of good reasons why someone might want to not play for a specific team, and Washington had all of them.
Is it worth $50M if you already are going to get $350M? I can’t answer that but I suspect that was the real reason. If the Giants or Blue Jays offer him that deal, I think he takes it.
The downside is Cody Bellinger.
Bellinger is definitely hurt. He may never recover, but he is not at all what he was physically.
How many Cody Bellinger’s in the world? Not a very useful comp.
Yelich isn’t as catastrophic but closer to his Miami talent level than his 2018/2019 peak when he signed the extension.
So is the Home Run Derby Curse back?
All jokes aside, this is very concerning given what the Padres gave up to get him. Hopefully it was just him working through a slight injury that got him into some mechanical bad habits…
Very likely. But there’s also the rest of ’22 to account for.
He looked good but not $500M good, age or not.
I thought Albert Pujols had definitively buried the Home Run Derby Curse. But maybe you’re not cursed if you don’t win?
Maybe I’m misremembering a little here, but it really did seem at the time that “young” Pujols took over “old” Pujols’ body towards the end of the HR Derby round vs. Soto. It hasn’t seemed to have left him.
few tings would make me happier than to see Juan Soto choke on it and become just a replacement player after turning down $400 MM – entitlement is a bitch
Thanks for the input, Bob nutting
Pirates fan here, nodding his head.
Spoonful of Sugar? or Spoonful of jealousy and hate?
Brains. Teaspoon.
When Mckenzie Gore is on he is one of the best left-handed pitchers I’ve ever seen – reminds me of a young Clayton Kershaw – too bad he went to a club that can’t seem to keep its pitchers healthy
I like Gore a lot, but he has an 85 ERA+. I don’t think he should remind anyone of arguably the greatest LHP (or even pitcher period) of all time
Comparing Gore to Kershaw makes at least as much sense as calling Kershaw maybe the greatest pitcher of all time.
well he quite literally has the lowest ERA and ERA+ of any starter since WWII (2k inning minimum), so that’s a good place to start
The Nationals starters have historically been quite healthy, which is how they managed to get to a huge number of playoff appearances and win a world series with literally only three pitchers you would ever want to see starting a playoff game.
Not sure this is true. Scherzer, Gonzalez and Roark stayed healthy. But Strasburg and Ross definitely did not. But maybe if we only look at 2019. Either way, that run was so notable because the starters had to carry the load of the bullpen, which was so awful in large part because of injuries.
They had to annually trade away their farm system to replace injured relievers, only to trade away more prospects to replace these injured relievers, like Sean Doolittle, Ryan Madson, Shawn Kelley, Tanner Rainey, Daniel Hudson, Will Harris, etc, all missing significant time during their long and short tenures on the team.
Not to mention the awful injury rates among their prospects, who were then unable to backstop the rotation as it all started falling apart in 2020. Among just their first round picks over the past decade, Lucas Giolito, Dane Dunning, Seth Romero, Mason Denaburg, Jackson Rutledge, and most recently Cade Cavalli have lost seasons to injury.
Soto has been flat out passive at the plate this season. The good Juan Soto rides that line between passive and disciplined really well, but 2022 Soto has gone all the way left. His zone swing % is 55%. 55%! If you watch him, he seems so concerned with swinging only at perfect strikes that he lets perfectly fine pitches go. He has stopped taking risks at the plate. This means he basically never loses a plate appearance by himself, because his eye and hand-eye coordination are incredible, but he doesn’t win them big all that often either. Swings are risks -even some of the best hitters of the past 30 years tend to generate a slightly negative value overall when they take a cut. But they’re risks you have to take, because they will pay off if you’re talented enough. Soto needs to start taking some risks at the plate. The walks will come naturally, because pitchers avoid him.
You’re missing the point here. His career Z-swing% is 62.8%! So he’s chasing in the zone more and the problem this year is that he isn’t doing damage when he makes contact in the zone.
I think you’re right that this is not the optimal swing mix for him but I also don’t think this is that different than who he was in the past.
In terms of differences, he’s swinging about 4 percentage points less in the zone and 5 percentage points out of zone. I’d say that’s a bad thing but his O-Contact % is up to 71.5% and his Z-Contact hasn’t budged, and the O-Swing is still lower than it was any year previously. His swing rate has barely budged from last year.
He’s always been this kind of patient. He’s at 58.4% this year, which is 4th lowest in the league, but that’s still 4% higher than the lowest in the league (DJ LeMahieu), and his career rate of 62.8% would put him 17th this year from the bottom or something like that among qualified hitters. I think it’s quite possible this isn’t the optimal mix but this is not a radically different player than we’ve seen in the past, and similarly his overall wRC+ is not radically different either.
The Padres fans in this thread are incredible.
I hope the Brewers go on a winning streak and you miss the playoffs again, you whiny children don’t deserve to watch October baseball (even just 2 losses in the wild card round)
counter – his rate stats have gone down the last two years, he provides no secondary value and is likely to decline quickly in terms of def/baserunning, and we’ve endured 5000 stories on this site that refer to him like he’s ted williams only also infallible
Could you point me to evidence that a player’s defense and baserunning “declines quickly” in his age 24-26 seasons?
Jon Olerud without the defense
Come on now, Olerud was excellent but wasn’t even cracking a .500 SLG in the peak of the steroid era. Soto’s at a career .527
Nah, Olerud could hit for average. Soto’s more like Ferris Fain.
Maybe he was a little bit overhyped!?
Maybe casual fans are bad at player evaluation?
Soto made a significant swing path change in 2021. Prior to that, his VBA was slightly below average at ~29. In 2021, he went ‘super flat’ to 25.8 and flattened further this year to 24.7.
VBA has a correlation to contact quality / consistency. This year, the std deviation of his launch angles of 32.8 is *6th worst in all of MLB*
Yes, he is in a short-term slump; however, there are some larger longer-term issues that indicate he’s going to have a hard time being the best hitter in baseball as most projection systems currently have unless he fixes his swing path
VBA data from swinggraphs
Ted Williams would never!
Those comparisons were ridiculous. Williams was putting up wRC+’s over 200 over full seasons, averaging 11 WAR each year. Soto may walk like Williams, but his average and slugging were always far behind. Soto’s track record and projections always had him looking like a perennial MVP player (which is of course awesome) but not anything close to a GOAT-like peak that Williams had.
It was weird seeing those comps. You can have a Hall of Fame career and not be anywhere near Ted Williams.
But I also understand getting carried away. It was exciting to think that there was a Williams-esque hitter that we would see even if he wasn’t that dominant. And I myself kept comping him to Joey Votto before he was called up so I don’t have too much room to complain about aggressive predictions.
Incidentally I still think Votto is his best comp.
All the comparisons said is that Soto had had equivalent hitting *through the same age* as Williams, which is *very good* and not something that happens well, more than a couple times per generation.
That doesn’t mean “He will be Ted Williams for the following 20 years”, and anyone who took it that way is a blithering idiot.
perhaps, it’s also just a strange comp because Williams was starting from a .343 BA in his age 20-23 seasons, which is essentially impossible now. His BABIP was .349. Williams was basically Tony Gwynn with Pujolsian power. Soto is… neither? Just a weird comp imho
Dipoto will send the Padres Jesse Winker and a Rookie ball lottery ticket. Soto just needs some of the Mariners’ trademark “Good Vibes” to get going again.
Nice piece, well put together. Soto is too monumental a talent not to return to previous levels, but I’d be interested, if he hasn’t recovered by the end of the season, to see a Fangraphs essay on similar drop-offs from high profile midseason trades.
Also what is the context of an elite player have a random significant “down year” while very young. Seems weird and reasonably unique/strange
Soto has a 143 wRC+ at age 23.
That is better hitting than the following recent HoF-caliber players at age 23: Chipper Jones (112 wRC+), Adrian Beltre (94), Jeff Bagwell (138), Rafael Palmeiro (119), Deter (110), Larry Walker (109), Jim Thome (122), Tony Gwynn (104), and A-Rod (136). Not to mention guys like Chase Utley and Kenny Lofton who at the end of their age-23 seasons had not yet debuted in the major leagues.
And sure some of these players weren’t fully established yet, but A-Rod had hit 159 wRC+ as a 20-year old.
I don’t think this is exactly a down year. He’s only 10 points off his career wRC+. Not great, obviously, but not time to panic.
The big concern isn’t that he’s declined, which is probably just some noise. It’s that it suggests he’s not getting better. But this is also pretty normal. When we look at guys who are elite hitters at such a young age, there’s a temptation to think that they’re always going to get better. And they usually do, with Yasiel Puig being the main exception. But when they do get better, the super-young, super-elite guys like Frank Thomas and Mike Trout don’t get that much better because they’re starting at such a high point. This is even true for guys like Ken Griffey Jr and Giancarlo Stanton, who started lower and improved but were still kind of the same guy, but better. The big exception (non-steroid division, at least), I think, was Miguel Cabrera. But Cabrera had some major personal issues that held him back at first.
We have to remember that Juan Soto is in the middle of a seemingly down year and he still has a career 153 wRC+ at age 23, which is nuts. He doesn’t actually have to get better offensively to be a franchise cornerstone (and even a Hall of Famer, given how early he started), he just has to bounce back to his career norms (which are not all that different than this anyways) while playing an average corner outfield.
ok but the average includes his current season. He’s down 12% in wRC+ from last season and down 29% from his 2020 covid season which plays a huge part of his mythos. and wRC+ is a stat that uniquely (over) values his skillset/ the one thing he does which is stand there and walk.
not saying he sucks, but super elite players having a down season at age 23 is … somewhere between unusual and worrying
You should check out Harper’s 2016 season.
interesting… although harper also had two other years at that level, sandwiched around a great year – then he took off.
Nah. Unless you think he’s a knucklehead or has a chronic injury this is a totally normal thing to have a year slightly below a previously established elite level at a young age.
Seems like this is the issue right here, placing undue weight on that 47 game sample from 2020.
Now do the undue weight put on the games since the trade deadline.
There’s precedent for players who’d established 7+ fWAR baselines falling to 5 fWAR by age 24 — Eddie Mathews and Mel Ott spring to mind — and then bouncing back to 7+ fWAR. But Soto is going to finish this year with 3 fWAR while completely healthy, after having 7 last year. I think the most hopeful comparable for Soto there would be Sherry Magee, who from ages 20-23 put up 5.5; 5.7; 6.9; and 5.2 fWAR before having a down year at age 24 with 3.5, before bouncing back with 7.5 at age 25. Magee is always one of those guys up for discussion for “best player not in the Hall of Fame”… but he’s not in the Hall of Fame.
This is another opportunity to laugh at, at least question just what all this analysis is actually telling us. I don’t care what Soto’s wRC+ when the realty is that it is derived almost exclusively from his walk rate. While the base on balls has value in the game it should not be of sufficient importance to cover up the fact that a .236 batting average, 24 HR’s, 53 RBI’s, remember most BB’s don’t drive in runs, and a .446 slugging percentage is very, very mediocre for a player acclaimed to be the next Ted Williams. In fact it isn’t close to the line of C.J. Cron, but Cron, with 28 HR’s, has produced 97 RBI’s. Soto’s 4.7 bWAR is as empty as a politician’s promises and his less than average outfield defense seems to be ignored. What is WAR but a number, What if in 2023 the league batting average dropped to .200 and walks shrank to 2%. If a player hit .260/.300/.360 with 16 HR’s but led the league in average and HR’s would he be having a 10 WAR season because he is outperforming the rest of the league by a huge margin? Soto may still have 4.7 WAR but to me it is nothing but a mirage and to call it anything else is putting lipstick on a pig.
Well this certainly looks like a lot of words.
Cordially,
J Peterman
I dunno how to say this to you friend but the most important thing to do in the game of baseball, offensively is *not make an out* and so walks are in fact extremely valuable because they mean you *did not make an out* and the run expectancy for the guys behind you is higher than it would otherwise be (and in fact is higher than it is for you).
OBP does not have linear payoffs – it’s closer to an exponential curve (which makes sense since a 1.000 OBP produces ‘infinite’ runs). OBP improves run scoring at a rate anywhere from 1.5 to double the rate of an additional point of slugging. It’s just better. Yeah, it would be nice if the guy who used to hit for a lot of power would do that, but there’s no such thing as empty on base percentage. Yes, a single is *more* valuable. You’d rather see a guy hit .400 than have a .400 OBP. But *people don’t hit .400*, but guys like Soto do have .400 OBPs. And the gap in value between the single and the walk is so small that it does not remotely make up for increasing the number of outs, which have a significant cost to team run scoring.
There’s no such thing as a free walk anymore where you can walk a guy and face a pitcher. Yes, there are tactical situations where one is dramatically worse (runner on 2nd, tie game, etc), but those are a tiny percentage of plate appearances.
This is all true. One additional note–I think it’s not appreciated anymore because almost everyone does it and so it’s just become “normal”, but people who rag on walks are forgetting that working the count drives up the opposing pitch count pretty rapidly. Now teams have adjusted to that mostly and we’ve forgotten all about it but there’s a real benefit over the course of a series, wearing out the other team’s pitching. Walks are good, especially in big bunches.
Teams use relievers so aggressively these days but when you push a pitcher into the 90s in the 4th freaking inning it sure does get him out of the game faster than he might otherwise, that’s for sure.
The Dodgers are really good at it, but I wonder how widespread it is otherwise, and how many teams are patient enough to make it matter even in today’s shortened outings. The Dodgers fairly frequently get a pitcher who hasn’t allowed any runs into the 95-100 range in 5 innings, which is about as far as anyone’s allowed to go these days. If a guy has allowed 0-1 runs and you basically force him to come out after 5, it’s a good thing for you.
The biggest change to me this year watching the Dodgers has been the replacement of Corey Seager with Freddie Freeman in this regard. Seager’s not that inferior of an offensive player to Freeman, but he was really out of step with the rest of the lineup as an extremely aggressive hitter on the first pitch, and the addition of Freeman’s patience to ensure that there’s not always a guy up there who always hacks at the first pitch has really extended their ability to ruin pitch counts to prodigious levels. It used to feel like Seager would let a guy off the hook by letting him get into the 6th inning because he’d throw 4 total pitches in 3 PAs to Seager and 91 in the other 17 PAs to the rest of the team or whatever, and with Freeman in the lineup that shit just doesn’t happen now.
We also left out lineup advancement. Without pitchers, its fundamentally always good. Every Soto walk means the guy currently pitching is that much closer to facing not only Soto but Machado and the other good Padres again without getting an out. This is fundamentally good for every baseball team. It’s even good when its just Trout and Ohtani and the other 7 guys are trash, and on a team with other good offensive players it’s even more valuable because those guys are in closer proximity and/or sometimes follow the walk and now have an opportunity for their own big hits to be worth more actual runs by having a runner on base.
The Yankees have basically been doing this for 30 years now and amazingly they’re still doing it. I didn’t think about it until Wade Boggs joined the Yankees and he was talking about how it was absolutely intentional to grind opponents’ pitching and force them into their bullpen early. Even this year, the Yankees’ have a BB%+ of 126. The other teams that are notably above league average (15% or higher) are the Mariners and Dodgers.
The Padres, FWIW, are 12% above league average. And that certainly hasn’t been all Soto given that he’s pretty new to the team. I think there’s a shot the Padres could build a lineup like this.
there is some truth to this given that MLB teams are quite comfortable walking him
it does seem like this is a situation where he’s “doing what the opponent wants” and that should be reevaluated
LOL at CJ Cron. His numbers away from Coors suggest he would lead the planet in outs if he played in San Diego
I feel like there is some over reaction to Soto’s struggles because inherently for some ppl walking isn’t as valued of a skill as hitting is which to be fair is true a hit is always better then a walk but the fact is a baseball doesn’t end until a team is leading after 27 outs so not making outs is very important.
Even with his struggles this year Soto is 5th in OBP, 17th in runs scored & 30th in HR there are a lot of MLB all stars who might not reach those heights in some of their best seasons.
His defense has never been great but I would be willing to bet that being twice as bad as he has ever been at the age of 23 will probably be an outlier over the next few seasons, a bounce back to his normal below average defense with a bit more pop and next year he could easily put up 6 WAR season.
On this of all websites you would think people would have internalized the reality that not making outs is the most important thing a hitter can do, but when people want to whine, they whine.
Stats aside, somehow the baseball world blew a hamstring jumping on the Soto is the next Trout+ bandwagon. He’ll straighten himself out but I expect him to be a top 25/50 player… not a 1/2 worthy of $.5B contract.