Juan Soto, Your Favorite Hitter’s Favorite Hitter

There are tons of great hitters in the game today. Vladimir Guerrero Jr. is having the breakout season presaged by his pedigree and minor league success. Shohei Ohtani has 45 home runs and somehow also pitches. Fernando Tatis Jr. has a .618 slugging percentage and plays shortstop. I haven’t even mentioned the old guard of “best hitters” — Mookie Betts, Bryce Harper, and ringleader Mike Trout.

They’re all great — and they’re all worse than the best overall hitter on the planet, Juan Soto. Soto is comical. He put on a rookie performance for the ages, and has done nothing but improve since then. The Ted Williams comps he’s drawn aren’t given out lightly. All those wonderful hitters — and Wander Franco, and whoever else you want to name — are looking up at him.

Normally, I’d try to write a “here’s how he does it” article. That doesn’t work with Soto. How does he do it? My best guess is that he’s a time-traveling wizard from the future who set his sights on being the best hitter he could be. Since I’m not an expert in either time travel or wizardry, you’ll have to settle for three vignettes about Soto’s unparalleled excellence.

The Rest of the Fastballs
If you live on Baseball Twitter, you might have seen some wild charts showing how Juan Soto laughs at high fastballs. There’s this one, the chart of all the swings he’s made at bad pitches (in the “chase” and “waste” zone) this year, courtesy of David Adler:

He hasn’t taken a single bad swing up high in the zone, which leads to another fun one. Here are all the fastballs Soto has seen above the top of the strike zone, also courtesy of Adler:

Just, lol. I know that’s not a professional way to write about it, but what are you supposed to say? The high fastball is supposed to be the pitch that turned the tide in favor of pitchers, but don’t tell Soto that. He watches it go by and laughs.

Marveling at his great skill against fastballs above the zone makes it seem like Soto’s best skill is taking pitches outside the strike zone, which sounds kind of boring. Soto’s best skill is taking pitches outside the strike zone — but he’s also great at everything else fastball-related. You could post impressive patience numbers on high pitches by simply not swinging. So let’s take the next cut down, fastballs that Baseball Savant classifies as in the shadow zone but also in the regulation strike zone — pitchers’ pitches, in other words, that dot the edge of the plate:

There, too, Soto is selective — but far less so, swinging at 53% of the pitches he sees (the league average is 67.5%). He goes from phenomenally patient to only slightly below average, such is his understanding of when it’s time to let it fly.

Only, that misstates it. When Soto sees one of these borderline fastballs with two strikes, he swings — literally 100% of the time so far this year. They’re still tough pitches to hit, so he’s sparing with fewer than two strikes, preferring to take a strike — but don’t try to throw anything by him up high with two strikes. Miss, and he’ll take it. Hit the zone, and he’ll swing — a miserable situation for anyone trying to get him out.

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By the way, if you miss low and leave the ball over the middle of the plate, watch out. On fastballs over the heart of the plate, he swings 72% of the time (average is 74%). And you don’t want that, because he might be the best fastball hitter in the league when the bat leaves his shoulders, in addition to having the best plate discipline.

Only Brandon Crawford has produced more runs over average when he swings at fastballs down the middle. Only eight batters produce more barrels per swing — Soto is in a dead statistical heat with Guerrero. He ranks seventh in hard-hit balls per swing. 23% of his swings have produced base hits, which is third in the league behind Guerrero and Nick Castellanos.

Those guys are all free swingers. Challenge them, and they’ll beat you — but they can be had if you get them to chase. Not Soto, which explains why he’s the best fastball hitter in the league — by run value on fastballs, by run value per fastball seen, by wOBA on at-bats ending in fastballs, however you want to look at it. The takes are cool — but the swings bring the rain.

Come Out and Play
Maybe you’ve heard — Soto walks a lot. Excluding intentional walks, he draws a free pass in 18.5% of his plate appearances, the best mark in the majors. You’ve probably seen Soto’s quote about it. “Whenever they want to play, I play,” Soto told Jessica Camerato. “When they don’t want to play, I just take my walk.”

If you’re an opposing pitcher, it’s pretty clear when you shouldn’t want to play — when there are runners on but first base is open. This isn’t rocket science — Soto’s batting .324 and does all those absurd things I just talked about to fastballs. His walks must be hollow ones, the type that the defense is okay surrendering, right?

Well, no. As Mike Petriello noted, Soto draws walks at an equal rate no matter who bats behind him. Perhaps more impressively, he draws walks at an equal rate whether he’s in one of those hollow-walk situations or not. With runners in scoring position and first base open, Soto walks 19% of the time. In all other situations, he walks 18.4% of the time. There’s basically no difference, even though the pitchers surely don’t want to play.

The league, naturally enough, doesn’t look like that at all. With runners in scoring position and first base open, all batters walk 10.3% of the time. In all other situations, they walk 8% of the time. Pitchers aren’t dumb — they really, truly don’t want to play when hits mean runs. Soto, despite his declaration, simply forces them to play.

They’re doing everything they can! They avoid the zone — he sees pitches in the strike zone only 44.3% of the time in obvious walk situations, as opposed to 48% the rest of the time. Even when Soto gets ahead in the count, pitchers don’t give in — they throw him a strike only 46.6% of the time. In all other situations (bases empty, or a runner on first), that number stands at 52.1%. In other words, they’re going out of their way to avoid him.

Soto just won’t let them. As we’ve already covered, he’s normally judicious with his swings. He has the lowest swing rate in all of baseball, and the 14th-lowest zone swing rate — he’s pretty good at telling balls from strikes, but he also doesn’t swing at many strikes. With ducks on the pond, that all changes. In obvious walk situations, he swings at a whopping 72.2% of pitches in the strike zone — against 58.6% in all other situations. That 13.6 percentage point increase dwarfs what most batters do — they only increase by 4.2 points. In fact, Soto swings more frequently at strikes than league average in obvious walk situations. Far from refusing to play if opposing pitchers don’t want to, he’s hitting a new gear of aggression.

Of course, as I already mentioned, Soto is a time-traveling wizard, which gives him some advantages over regular human beings. Despite wildly dialing up his assertiveness on pitches in the zone, he doesn’t chase more. Throw him a ball, and he swings only 12.3% of the time, which is actually less frequently than he does overall. Not only that, but he’ll shuffle afterwards, really rubbing it in your face. I wouldn’t wish facing Juan Soto with runners aboard on my worst enemy.

All Fields
You know the drill: put the ball in the air, pull it, and prosper. Batters simply hit the ball harder when they pull it, which leads to more production. That’s not to say that every batter should pull the ball more when they put it in the air, but hitters who naturally pull the ball tend to have good power numbers. Ohtani is a great example of this: he has pulled nearly 39% of the batted balls he’s put in the air this year, and produced a 1.036 wOBA on those pulled balls. Here are the top five home run hitters in baseball this year:

Power Hitters Love Pulling
Player Air Pull% Air Pull wOBA
Vladimir Guerrero Jr. 25.6% .900
Salvador Perez 34.4% .869
Shohei Ohtani 38.8% 1.036
Marcus Semien 42.0% .882
Fernando Tatis Jr. 37.8% .980

Guerrero is less pull-happy than the rest, but the overall trend seems clear: these prodigious home run hitters do it by getting the bat out front and lifting. Indeed, 58% of their home runs on the year have been pulled. Among that group, only Guerrero has pulled less than half of his dingers (43.4%).

Soto has pulled less than a third of his home runs. He rarely pulls the ball when he puts it in the air — only 20.2% of the time, which is in the 7th percentile league-wide. Exactly one player who pulls their air contact less frequently than Soto has 20 home runs on the season — Justin Turner with 25. It’s just hard to rack up huge home run tables if you aren’t pulling it. Unless, of course, you’re Soto — his 29 home runs are a work of spray art:

Given that, it might surprise you to learn that Soto is ninth in baseball when it comes to average exit velocity on balls hit in the air. He’s 19th in home runs per ball in the air and ninth in barrel rate. He has dead pull power numbers, but he does it while spraying the ball to all fields like a gap-to-gap doubles hitter.

How? Well, he’s third in exit velocity on non-pulled air balls, behind Tatis and Aaron Judge. His 96.1 mph average would be 14th… on the pulled air balls list, ahead of sluggers like Kyle Schwarber, Yordan Alvarez, and Joey Gallo. Meanwhile, he’s stinging his pulled fly balls too, to the tune of 97 mph. He simply hits everything hard, harder than most batters hit anything.

You could do the same thing with other power statistics. He’s 12th in barrels and seventh in home runs per ball in the air. He’s second in wOBA and second in xwOBA. When Soto hits the ball in the air, he absolutely clobbers it, regardless of direction. And in fact, those wOBA and xwOBA marks suggest something else interesting: Soto almost never pops up. He’s in the bottom 15% of the major leagues when it comes to pop up rate on air balls, and no one who pops up less frequently than him hits the ball harder.

All of this implies he gets the ball in the air, though. He doesn’t get to his prodigious air power very often. No one with more home runs than Soto has a higher groundball/fly ball ratio, and it’s not even close. He checks in at 1.85; second-best is Javier Baez at 1.34. That’s all that’s holding Soto back from adding even more homers — and in the second half, he’s down to a 1.53 GB/FB mark, which has led to 18 bombs.

Think about how impressive Soto’s contact quality is. He’s posted the second-best wRC+ in baseball this year, and he’s doing it with the batted ball tendencies of DJ LeMahieu. His monumental power means that if he could adopt batted ball tendencies that better suit his style — the leap Guerrero has made this year — he could still have another level.

I could go on and on with Soto. Every facet of his game is amazing, and you can’t spend 30 minutes looking at his statistics without finding something else earth-shaking. He hardly seems real — the ideal hitter, seemingly dropped fully formed into the major leagues at age 19. And yet, he could still be better. I never thought I would say that about someone who is already, in my estimation, the best hitter in baseball.

All statistics current as of Sunday, September 26.





Ben is a writer at FanGraphs. He can be found on Bluesky @benclemens.

102 Comments
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mariodegenzgz
4 years ago

You know how the truly elite, inner-circle hitters always look like they’re the oned in control of every at bat rather than the pitcher? Soto is probably the only hitter in baseball right now that makes me feel that way when he’s in the batter’s box. His pitch recognition is god-like, he just does not swing and miss, and his ability to hit the ball equally hard to all fields is mind boggling.

That’s probably also why he’s fooled so rarely. He has such confidence in his bat speed and he’s so aware that he can hit the ball out to left field just as well as right field that he simply does not need to be jumping out in front to pull the ball. That allows him to be on time with slow stuff and hit that up the middle and/or to right-center.

I also suspect that the same swing that enables him to hit high heaters so well is what causes the lower launch angles on average. This is all couch scouting, but his to me swing looks pretty classic and flat compared to most guys today, which is not a bad thing.

Mahoney
4 years ago
Reply to  mariodegenzgz

The last guy who had that vibe was Bonds, and before that Rickey – other great hitters including Trout give pitchers fear of making a mistake, but Soto, like Bonds and Rickey, makes you feel like he’s just toying with the pitchers.

(I see a little bit of that with Franco as well)

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Mahoney

Do you really want to talk about Bonds? (I don’t want to talk about Bonds.)

Mahoney
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Actually no. Rickey is a whole nother story….could talk about him for days.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Mahoney

I always want to talk about Rickey. Let’s talk about Rickey.

Mahoney
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Fun Rickey fact: he had 17 consecutive seasons with more walks than strikeouts. The only time he walked less than 10% of the time was his rookie season (age 20), when he had an 8.5% BB, 9.8% K profile.

Which is eerily similar to Wander Franco’s second half rates (8.4% BB, 9.8% K)

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Mahoney

Some of this is just the game changing but: Trea Turner has the most stolen bases from 2017-2019 (124), which is less than Rickey’s best single season.

Mahoney
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Fun Rickey non-basestealing fact: if Rickey was just average for his career in baserunning, he would still have a higher career WAR than contemporaries George Brett and Wade Boggs. All three of these guys had a career 132 wRC+.

Adam C
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

More fun Rickey facts. In 1982 Rickey had 84 SB at the All Break. Since 1900 there have only been 14 seasons where the SB leader stole more than 84 bases. And Rickey had four of those 14 seasons.

118- Lou Brock, 1974
110- Vince Coleman, 1985
109- Vince Coleman, 1987
107- Vince Coleman, 1986
104- Maury Wills, 1962
97- Ron LeFlore, 1980
96- Ty Cobb, 1915
96- Omar Moreno, 1980
94- Maury Williams, 1965
90- Tim Raines, 1983

Jon L.Member since 2016
4 years ago
Reply to  Adam C

I came *this close* to googling Maury Williams 🙂

FrancoeursteinMember since 2025
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I always wanna talk about Barry.

ismailadiemeMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Francoeurstein

Could Soto be a better hitter than Bonds?

ismailadiemeMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Rickey wants to talk about Rickey

amartin
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I don’t like Bonds, for obvious reasons. At the end of the day though, steroids don’t help bat to ball skills. I’d still watch prime Bonds take at bats all day, I’d just do my best to pretend it’s not him.

Jon L.Member since 2016
4 years ago
Reply to  amartin

Steroids do aid bat to ball skills, immensely. It takes strength to generate quickness and bat speed, and quickness and bat speed translate into bat to ball skills. He didn’t hit .370 as a 37-year-old because steroids weren’t helping him make contact.

Alice Cooper
4 years ago
Reply to  Mahoney

Had this feeling with peak Pujols as well

2008-09 vintage particularly

Nearly the same OBP as Soto with 100 more SLG (Covid season notwithstanding)

dashriprock
4 years ago
Reply to  Mahoney

Yep!

DBA455
4 years ago
Reply to  mariodegenzgz

Since 2005 (post Bonds), there are about 2,500 qualified player-seasons.

There are exactly two with an OBP > .470

Juan Soto 2020.

And Juan Soto 2021.

slamcactusMember since 2024
4 years ago
Reply to  DBA455

This doesn’t cheapen your point at all, because there’s no cheapening how awesome Soto is, but you missed Joey Votto’s .474 in 2012. He missed time that year so it was only over 475 PAs (and to lead the league in OBP I think they had to add a bunch of empty PAs to find him still the leader), but that’s more than twice Soto’s 2020 PAs.

Cave Dameron
4 years ago
Reply to  slamcactus

I did some math on the cave wall and Votto was 27 PAs short of qualifying, and he would’ve needed to maintain a .370 OBP over those next PAs (10/27) in order to finish with .470

slamcactusMember since 2024
4 years ago
Reply to  Cave Dameron

Peak Votto was awesome.

Mahoney
4 years ago
Reply to  slamcactus

So is cave wall math 🙂

Jon
4 years ago
Reply to  slamcactus

As is current Votto.

stever20Member since 2017
4 years ago
Reply to  slamcactus

2021 Votto read this and slammed not one but 2 HR today.

stever20Member since 2017
4 years ago
Reply to  slamcactus

Also have 2007 Barry Bonds(his final season) where he had a .480 OBP with 477 PA.

Right now, Juan is 1 point up on Chipper Jones for best qualified season since 2005.

dashriprock
4 years ago
Reply to  slamcactus

As I scrolled down the comments, I was waiting for a Votto comp. Peak Votto is not as good as Soto, but when you consider Votto’s numbers include a long stretch of decline he’s very impressive. Plus his 2015 second half split (at age 31) .362/.535/.617 was Soto-like All that being said, Soto is better.

hombremomento
4 years ago

Disagree on the assertion that Guerrero Jr is a free-swinger. 70th percentile chase rate, 12.5% walk rate to a 15.9% K rate; he’s not Crawford (49th percentile chase rate) and he’s certainly not Nick Castellanos (4th percentile chase rate, 14th percentile whiff%)

BROD
4 years ago

” I never thought I would say that about someone who is already, in my estimation, the best hitter in baseball.”

Soto (168 wRC+ this year) is not a better hitter than Trout (172 career wRC+), and he’s a bat-only player with zero complementary skills.

David Klein
4 years ago
Reply to  BROD

Soto is +6 outs above average in RF this year.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  David Klein

We really need to have a conversation about the definition of “bat-first” versus “bat-only.” It’s very difficult for anyone playing a corner outfield slot or 1st base to derive considerable value from their defense, but “bat-only” implies something more like “he’s a DH or he should be.”

BROD
4 years ago
Reply to  David Klein

His single-season defensive performance means nothing.

-Soto’s OAA percentile rank-
2018: 9
2019: 89
2020: 14
2021: 90

The fact is, he has average speed and a weak arm.

SyntonicMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  BROD

Two full-length seasons of being an 85th+ percentile defender makes someone a bat-only player? You have very high standards! I would interpret these numbers as making the opposite case.

BROD
4 years ago
Reply to  Syntonic

So, you didn’t get my point that the defensive metrics are not reliable?

BTW, the OAA doesn’t even have the arm component, which is exactly why David Klein chose it instead of other metrics.

soddingjunkmailMember since 2016
4 years ago
Reply to  BROD

“So, you didn’t get my point that the defensive metrics are not reliable?”

I did, which is why I eschew most defensive metrics in favor of WSGONTINBS. (What some guy on the internet named Brod said)

fanofthemanMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  BROD

Ben also didn’t say Soto is the best position player in baseball, just that he’s the best hitter. Seems like that implies “he is the best at hitting” not “he is the best overall player who hits as part of his job”

slamcactusMember since 2024
4 years ago
Reply to  fanoftheman

To be fair (to be fayuhhh), Brod’s got a decent point that calling Soto the undisputed best when his current-season #s fall just short of Trout’s career line might be a bit premature. It’s where he calls him worthless with the glove that he drew some well-deserved backlash.

That said, my fan brain is overruling my rational brain when it comes to Soto. If his second half is his true talent level moving forward he’s in a class of his own (at least among active players).

tung_twista
4 years ago
Reply to  slamcactus

There is a reason why we adjust players for their age.

Trout
19: 135PA wrc+ 87
20: 639PA wrc+ 167
21: 716PA wrc+ 176
22: 705PA wrc+ 167

Soto
19: 494PA wrc+ 146
20: 659PA wrc+ 143
21: 196PA wrc+ 201
22: 626PA wrc+ 168

Trout is the better overall player, but just looking at this, I would expect *slightly* better bat from Soto going forward.

AnonMember since 2025
4 years ago
Reply to  slamcactus

Since the start of 2020 Soto’s wOBA is .441. That’s a solid 822 PA not some small sample nuttiness. Trout (.423) isn’t even 2nd on that list since Harper is at .425. It’s not at all wild to say that Soto is currently the best hitter in baseball and that’s before you get to the injury argument against Trout (gotta play to be considered the best).

(BTW< I know this is a Soto piece but we are now on year 5 of Trout missing between 11.7% (last year which was a shortened year) and 77.8% (this year) of the season. . . .)

slamcactusMember since 2024
4 years ago
Reply to  Anon

I’m in agreement that Soto’s the current best hitter alive. I actually think his batting line this year undersells him, because he wasn’t right physically in the first half.

I just don’t think it’s outrageous to point out that Soto’s 2021 line isn’t quite up to Trout’s career average. Trout’s still really good. When he can play.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago

I do wonder if the fact that he virtually never swings at bad pitches and that he doesn’t pull the ball that much compared to others are related to each other. He’s great but I do think if we’re expecting him to ascend to Ted Williams levels of awesomeness as opposed to, say, staying in the Joey Votto zone, we might be a little disappointed.

Although comparing Soto to Votto and Williams is an interesting exercise. Votto was always very good at ball-strike recognition and was able to run ridiculous BABIPs in his best seasons early in his career, more so than Soto, and with similar home runs power to Soto (slightly different league wide offensive context, though). So the offensive value is actually pretty similar overall. Still, Votto didn’t quite achieve this level of ball-strike mastery until his age 33 season, even if his contact quality was probably off the charts earlier in his career. Meanwhile, this is Soto’s age 22 season, and Votto’s first year in MLB was his age-23 season. I’m very much hoping for good health because this is “Old Man Votto” about a decade earlier, and if he regularly puts up 6+ win seasons for the next ten years he’s a Hall of Famer. There are definitely worlds where Soto is better than Votto as he gets older but maybe he is “only” a probable Hall of Famer with good health.

Williams was on a totally different level. I’m not sure we can ever compare him to anyone. In his age-22 season he walked 24% of the time and struck out 4.5% of the time and hit 37 home runs (playing half his games in Fenway, a place that tends to redistribute homers into other forms of offensive production). Some of this is an unfair comparison because the pitchers Soto is seeing are way better than Warren Spahn and Bob Feller (and Hal Newhouser and Robin Roberts too), who themselves were better than anyone else playing in that era but whose “stuff” probably isn’t better than Jon Gray’s and maybe worse. But Ted Williams’ career OBP is .482. From 2007-2019, not a single hitter had even a single season with an OBP better than that. The highest one in that range was Chipper Jones’ .470 (just shy of Soto’s current OBP). To give you a sense of how ridiculous Williams was, he had 15 seasons where he had 400 or more PAs and topped that .470 mark in 10 of them. We are not going to see a guy like Ted Williams ever again.

Mahoney
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

IF someone were to make a decent run at a Ted Williams career, they’d be a lot like Juan Soto. But that’s a SUPER high bar.

TheAnalytics
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Through age 22:

Williams – 180 BB+, 92 K+, 153 SLG+
Soto – 202 BB+, 80 K+, 129 SLG+

In about the same number of PA.

It seems impossible to say, but Soto’s mastery of the strike zone relative to his peers is even more impressive than Williams’ through this point in their careers. Now, Williams had significantly more power and thus was a better overall hitter, but JS has cemented his case as a top 5 all-time early career offensive force.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  TheAnalytics

Are the + stats for BB / K just normalized with 100 as average? If so, that’s a pretty cool statistic and totally wild to read.

TheAnalytics
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone
slamcactusMember since 2024
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Not to take away from Williams, but in his age-22 season the AL leaguewide strikeout rate was 9.1%. The non-pitcher strikeout rate in the NL this year is 22.3%.

Soto’s 13.6% might not be Williams level (thought I think his 11.2% in his ridiculous 2nd half is comparable – right around twice as good as league average), but that’s elite contact in today’s game.

As for career OBP, we’ll see. Soto’s trending the right way.

And I think it bears repeating, his .471 this year includes a down (for him) first half, and a second half in which he’s hit .371/.544/.690 over nearly 300 PAs.

I recognize it’s usually not a great approach to cut the sample size in half and that’s often a great blueprint for making really bad arguments, but that’s the most recent data and it’s a pretty decent-sized chunk of it. His 2nd half might not be his true talent level. In fact, it probably isn’t. But then again, he’s 22, so…it also might be.

And if he’s “just” about what he’s been over his 2020-2021 campaigns in the aggregate, we’re still looking at a 22-year-old who’s putting up better-than-peak Joey Votto numbers who plays outfield.

Suffice it to say I’m enjoying this ride.

joe_schlabotnik
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

brother trombone,
i ask you to apply the same rigor with era adjustments that you usually do. i don’t think im alone in thinking that theres no chance soto wouldn’t have as good or better numbers than williams if he was playing in the 40s and 50s. why are you applying the same rate stats to another era and acting like those numbers would be reflected similarly in our current environment? Soto, as a 22 year old, has a 40 point lead on OBP in the league. Through his age 22 season, Williams was at .475 I’m gonna go ahead and say with total certainty that juan would have thoroughly beaten that mark if we put him in a time machine. I mean, this was pre integration! Juan soto would be a better player than ted williams in 1947, and he’d be a better player than ted if he was transported to 2021.
I don’t know why anyone wouldn’t want to be excited about someone being compared to the best to ever do it, especially when the stars are aligning and it really looks like he could be the real deal. I for one, am very excited at the possibility of a new ted williams emerging. The dude is younger than adley rutschman and is a better hitter than anyone in the league. don’t get why anyone should feel compelled to pump the brakes on the excitment. a month or so ago you were saying how projections are broken with 20 year olds who put up crazy seasons. Don’t you think they’d do the same for ted williams? wouldn’t you have been skeptical of such greatness being foisted on any player?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago

Yes, although the counterfactual here gets messy when we start thinking about what sort of training Soto would have had in an earlier era, or Williams in this one. It seems pretty obvious that an all-star team today would absolutely smoke an all-star team from 1957. Heck, a .500 team today would probably be better than an all-star team from 1957 (I’m not sure about the details). If Bob Feller (in his prime) had to face Juan Soto today he would be dumbfounded how good he is. But I am pretty confident he’d say the same about Yuli Gurriel…and probably Mitch Haniger…maybe even Tommy Pham. Okay, probably not Tommy Pham, but you get my point.

(I pick Bob Feller because I’m not convinced anyone else in that era would have any real success against modern hitters)

achidesterMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I would agree that we tend to overstate how superior current players/players in recent eras would perform if they went back in time. It’s all pedantry, we’ll never be able to prove/disprove any of this, but I’ve always argued that no player could play in a different era (we’ll say 10+ years) on day one. However, if you gave a player a year to acclimate to the year/era, adjusting to travel/diet/pay/culture/training, guys like Ted Williams would be at “their level” (let’s say wRC+, for argument’s sake) in 2021, and guys like Juan Soto would be at “their level” in the 1950’s.

joe_schlabotnik
4 years ago
Reply to  achidester

gonna go ahead and say it would take juan soto 1 day to adjust to hitting 83 mph fastballs delivered by dudes with ridiculous mechanics. were talking about an era where people didnt even wear helmets. this is a bad take

achidesterMember since 2020
4 years ago

wearing a wool jersey, traveling by train, getting paid significantly less than he is now, with less access to weight training or nutrition, with equipment/fields that are less consistent than they are today. Not to mention the cultural barriers that non-white players faced (and still continue to face).

joe_schlabotnik
4 years ago
Reply to  achidester

yes. juan soto would still mash 83 mph fastballs with all of those considerations. and travelling by train is way better than flying anyways. just sayin.

Jon L.Member since 2016
4 years ago

How quickly would Juan Soto adjust to hitting a grayish ball that’s been in use for a few batters and has unnatural movement because it’s coated in spit?

Not every change in the last few decades has made hitting harder.

joe_schlabotnik
4 years ago
Reply to  achidester

mickey mantle spent his first offseason working in a mine. the game was so different back then. today kids spend their lives in batting cages starting at age 12. I remember a story about how bryce harper played like 300 games as a 12 year old, on some 5 different travel teams. its absolutely ridiculous to suggest that these people were on the same talent level. foolish baseball just put up a video breaking down the 89 alcs, and commentators were saying that someone that threw LOW 90s was a flamethrower. that was in 1989! give me a break

slamcactusMember since 2024
4 years ago

Apropos of nothing, my 10 y/o nephew now has a Perfect Game scouting page after playing in his first PG-sponsored tournament last month. That blows my mind. He’s on a travel team, but I didn’t draw the connection between that and the precursor to the showcase circuit.

NATS FanMember since 2018
4 years ago

Would Soto have been allowed to play in 1947? unlikely

slamcactusMember since 2024
4 years ago
Reply to  NATS Fan

Yeah, signed back in to say exactly that. The hypothetical year-by-year comparison is made way more difficult by the fact that an equal-aged Soto probably couldn’t have joined Williams in the majors until they were both 30 at the youngest (which, incidentally, makes Williams’ era dominance less impressive too, since he wasn’t actually playing against a collection of the best players alive until his late-30s, if ever).

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  slamcactus

I’ve always pondered this one as well–specifically for Williams. I’m pretty adamant that the “best player” arguments do not really apply until integration. I think Ted Williams’s absolute bonkers performances from age 35-39 (1954-1958) provide evidence that he was a spectacular hitter, and so I usually cite 1957 as the “perfect hitting season” rather than comparable seasons earlier in his career (like 1941). But when we start talking about changes by age, suddenly this all starts going out the window.

slamcactusMember since 2024
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Bonus points for not using 1947 as the inflection point for integration — one player doesn’t make for a truly integrated league.

If we’re getting technical I think there’s another moment that really heralds the start of the modern baseball era: when Caribbean-born players started showing up en masse in the late-50s (there were Puerto Rican-born MLB players who debuted earlier, but the pipeline really started in the mid-50s for Puerto Rico and the late-50s for the Dominican).

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  slamcactus

Yeah I don’t consider MLB integrated until some point in the 50s. Where you draw the line gets pretty academic but it’s telling that from 1950 to 1960 a huge number of the best players were not white: Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Frank Robinson, Roberto Clemente, Ernie Banks, Minnie Minoso, etc. Those guys showed up in the 50s, mostly near the beginning but some near the middle (McCovey, Marichal, Bob Gibson, and Cepeda showed up in the 1958-1960 range, I think, so they were part of a slightly later cohort). But the level of competition increased so rapidly during that time period that I’d guess that the dividing line is somewhere in between 1951 and 1959.

Long story made short, I’m comfortable with saying Williams in 1957 was awesome in a way that his 1941 was not.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

One more thing–I’ve been on Soto for a while and I am still absolutely stunned how good he is, talking about him being in the Votto range of a player and maybe even better. Around the time he got promoted I thought he’d be an all-star before his first contract was up, and that he was one of the top 5 prospects in baseball (behind Vlad Jr and Acuna but on the same level as guys like Robles and Tatis Jr; I guess Top 6 if you call Ohtani a prospect).

But there’s a really big difference between being a 4-5 win all-star someday and seeing him have either the best or second best season for an outfielder in MLB in a year when he’s still only 22 years old. This isn’t quite like Harper (the other candidate for best OF this season) at age 22 when he put up that season for the ages in 2015, and Harper himself shows that not everyone who is awesome at age 22 keeps staying that awesome. But everything about what Soto is doing is insane.

slamcactusMember since 2024
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

If your only point is that Soto isn’t a sure thing or even more likely than not to join the Bonds/Williams/Ruth strata of all-time great hitters, please realize that absolutely everyone commenting here understands that, agrees with it, and takes it as a given. No exceptions.

That said, two responses:

1) Soto through Age 22 >>> Harper through age 22.

2) being able to talk about the potential for Williams-type numbers is special as hell. Let us have it until we don’t anymore (which happened pretty quickly with Harper).

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  slamcactus

My point is more that it’s been very strange morphing from (what felt like) Soto’s biggest champion in early 2018, telling absolutely everyone that he looked like a star and getting crazy looks from all family and friends (and internet commenters) to saying “you know, he might not actually be Ted Williams.” I find this very decentering.

slamcactusMember since 2024
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Seriously folks, what’s with the downvotes? People are allowed to probe nuance. ST isn’t trolling.

I get the decentering thing.

But everyone (at least everyone who pays enough attention to baseball to comment on Fangraphs) knows he’s got extremely long odds to “be Ted Williams.” Even if he’s got the talent, he needs to stay healthy. And virtually nobody stays dominant into their late-30s these days the way Williams did.

People are just excited that this phenom appears to just keep getting better. No slow start to explain with “well, it’s still great for a teenager,” no sophomore slump, no regression to the mean, just a guy who made a historically great debut who looks to be getting better every year to the point where he may occupy a category all his own. And as an added bonus, he’s not an old-player skills guy, like most of the best non-Bonds hitters of the past 30 years.

carterMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

At least Harper is back to being a 173wRC+ hitter this year again. He was great last year (by xstats even better than this year, take it as you may) and has the highest wrc in baseball. I almost feel like you are just baiting me at this point as every single week you use Harper as a negative on a projection regarding a young player, and every single week I come back with well he has literally been the best hitter in baseball this year, and quality of contact measures had him even better last year. So maybe he is who they thought he was going to be? He just needed to calm down and quit running into walls and diving into first base to get back there.

I do agree though, none of these guys are a lock, or even that likely to be better than this moving forward. It is awful funny though that Harper (probably MVP favorite, or 2nd) likely future hof is the negative comp for someone, though. By zips the only guy who is predicted to be better than Harper at the plate is Soto and Trout who is hurt. That doesn’t seem unreasonable at all, as I would say that Harper is the third best hitter in baseball, behind those two guys, not some projection system caution tale.

slamcactusMember since 2024
4 years ago
Reply to  carter

Yeah, Harper’s had a good career and is having a great year. But ST’s right that at the same age Soto is now he put up the kind of season that suggested he could be capable of that sort of all-time great status and never reached that height again.

I do think Soto’s different though. Not a sure thing, but a better bet. Harper’s 2015 was a breakout from a guy who’d merely been very good for his age before that. This feels more like a natural progression from someone who’s been historically good for his age every year.

But I’ve made it pretty clear I’m an irrationally exuberant fanboy who’s not all that interested in talking 30th percentile projections.

carterMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  slamcactus

Agreed with all! I do think if anyone active is ever going to ascend to that level, it is Soto

Kevbot034
4 years ago

He seems pretty hellbent on improving his game. His defense has even improved pretty notably since shifting to RF, though it’s probably time he pumps the brakes on swiping bags.

carterMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Kevbot034

Highly highly doubt he does that

Kevbot034
4 years ago
Reply to  carter

Honestly I hope he doesn’t. I’d rather just see him get better at stealing bases and improve and everything all the time LOL

diamonddores
4 years ago

Early in the year I was looking at his ISO and thinking gosh Soto just isn’t right or something. But now it’s almost October and he is the WAR leader among qualified hitters.

Can’t wait to see what kind of deal he gets down the road once he goes through free agency. $50 million per year is in play right?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  diamonddores

He’s gone nova in September. He had a very good July too but he’s running a 245 wRC+ in September this year, with a 28.2% walk to 6.0% strikeout rate, with a .439 batting average. He can’t possibly keep this up but wow has it been something to watch.

This will also be an interesting test of whether voters are willing to give the MVP to a guy on a team that is nowhere near the playoffs. I think I’d probably give it to Harper, who has as good but has the playoff contention as a tiebreaker, although the two of them, Wheeler, and Burnes are all worthy.

achidesterMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  diamonddores

I have to think Boras/Soto expect a contract worth $500M. I bet they’d be willing to take a Tatis-esque long-term deal that works out to be less than $50M/year, but not by much.

EasyenoughMember since 2016
4 years ago
Reply to  achidester

I wouldn’t be surprised if Soto sets unusual salary goals rather than trying to just get the biggest nominal headline. Similarly, he sure seems to take walks when he could trade ~10 walks for a home run like many other players do. That is, his optimization function seems relatively long term.

I’m wild guessing that with Boras’s support Soto considers things like taxes and the potential benefits of deferred pay more than some other young guys. That could make the headline number different. Also, I would expect that he would value an opt out more than other players who professed a desire for a headline salary and stability.

slamcactusMember since 2024
4 years ago

I loved it when halfway through the year Soto had something like an .880 OPS and everyone was saying “clearly there’s something wrong with him.”

Full disclosure: I was absolutely one of those people. I want, and have begun to expect, to see him putting up > .500 or even .550 OBPs over full-seasons in the future and create the kind of in-game tactics nightmare not seen since Bonds.

Is that reasonable? Maybe not. In fact, almost certainly not. But the kid’s created that expectation and I love him for it, even if he falls short. As great as Trout has been the past decade, Soto looks like the kind of offensive talent who has the potential to just break baseball, like Bonds and Williams were before him.

stever20Member since 2017
4 years ago
Reply to  slamcactus

Trout’s biggest problem is he just can’t stay healthy. You hope he doesn’t turn into another Ken Griffey Jr. type where you’re always wondering what if with him.

tung_twista
4 years ago
Reply to  stever20

I know sports is all about ‘what have you done for me lately?’ but 2021 is the first season Trout failed to have enough PAs to qualify since his rookie year.
Not saying there isn’t any concern, but no need to blow it out of proportion, either.

stever20Member since 2017
4 years ago
Reply to  tung_twista

This isn’t the first season though he’s missed a ton of games.
2017- missed 48 games
2018- missed 22 games
2019- missed 28 games
2021- missed 126 games

So 17-19 he missed 98 games total. Now this year. Not to mention losing out on seeing him last year with the pandemic obviously- totally not his fault. But 25-29 yr old seasons- where he is in his prime- he played only 477 games. 162*5 is 810 games. So that’s over 2 full seasons that he’s lost out on.

Ken Griffey didn’t start to deteriorate until he was 31.

Definitely something to keep eye on going forward.

carterMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  stever20

He has missed a lot of games due to injury in his career, but I do think it is a little exaggerated. A lot of players miss a lot of games these days. Griffey and Trout are a lot different. Trout certainly conditions and exercises. Griffey was notorious for not exercising at all, he even went as far as to say “Does a cheetah stretch before it catches it’s pray?” He was on record as not ever lifting weights, even saying he was “easily the weakest player on the team” as he couldn’t bench I believe 185. I think a lot of his late career results can be attributed to lack of exercise, conditioning, nutrition, etc. He was my favorite player ever and watching that happen was sad in a way.

AnonMember since 2025
4 years ago
Reply to  stever20

This. Trout is on year 5 of not playing more than 140 games (last year pro-rated out to 143 games but that’s a short season and it’s hard to have confidence he actually would have been able to play a full season). Worse, calf injuries are notoriously tricky. Josh DOnaldson was a rock for 4 years there from 2013-16 and then at age 31 he started having calf problems and has missed 225 of 708 games since 2017 (though he did manage 155 in 2019). Moreover, while he is still a good hitter he cannot run hard at all – he trots out a lot of groundballs.

joe_schlabotnik
4 years ago
Reply to  slamcactus

votto had a quote about soto this weekend where he said ” i think he’ll put together one of those perfect seasons”. As in, replicating his second half all year. I truly believe he’ll be able to do that

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago

I think there’s a chance. I wouldn’t expect him to beat Frank Thomas’s 1994 or Mantle’s 1956 frequently, but if he stays healthy long enough the chances of him having a single (full season) year like that goes up. The real prize–a “perfect” season–is something like 1957 Ted Williams. That isn’t particularly likely but I wouldn’t rule it out either. He’s the only person I think has a chance in today’s game.

stever20Member since 2017
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

it’s amazing how close he came this year. He had a really “bad” May. He still had a .253/.387/.345 month for a .723 OPS.

Since he got it going on May 31- he’s got a .343/.501/.617 1.118 in 106 games. So that’s 2/3 of the season.

NATS FanMember since 2018
4 years ago
Reply to  stever20

He was not healthy in May.

stever20Member since 2017
4 years ago
Reply to  NATS Fan

sure seems like it. Probably winds up costing him the MVP race.

stever20Member since 2017
4 years ago

I just want to thank that idiot Will Smith for hitting Soto with that pitch in the 9th inning a few weeks ago.

Since then he’s only gone .467/.612/.817 for a 1.428 OPS. 257 wRC+

Atlanta’s fans 1st off woke him up with them chanting “overrated” and now this. When will they learn?

RoyalsFan#14321Member since 2024
4 years ago

I just want to mention Ronald Acuna Jr for no particular reason.

NATS FanMember since 2018
4 years ago

The top of the WAR list for the NL has the following 4 names: Soto, Harper, Tatis, and Trea Turner. 3 out of 4 came up with the the Nationals. Add to it, Scherzer is third on the pitcher WAR list. Can you imagine how good the NATS would be if the owner of the NATS had unlimited resources!

joe_schlabotnik
4 years ago
Reply to  NATS Fan

mannnnn they didnt need any resources they dont already have! they are the richest owners in the mlb. All of those guys could easily be on the nats right now. It breaks my heart on a regular basis. thank god 2019 came together, otherwise i’d have a hard time justifying my support of the team, considering the lack of financial interest they put in the team.
Even if you say that rendon walks, keeping bryce would have been so doable. so then we’d have those 3 nl WAR leaders in one lineup. With at least one other year of trea!
The sad thing is that soto will almost certainly walk, what incentive does he have to stay with a team that has time and time again indicated they aren’t interested in retaining talent. Even if they broke the bank for him, he’d have no reason to expect them to try to do so for other players.

Ryan DCMember since 2016
4 years ago

Yeah the Lerners effectively do have unlimited resources. I don’t know if I agree that they have a lack of financial interest in the team given their signings of Stras, Corbin, and Scherzer, but I completely agree that the idea that they had to choose between Stras and Rendon or that they couldn’t keep Harper is complete nonsense. I really really hope you’re wrong about Soto, if they cry poverty because of the Stras extension I am gonna be extremely pissed.

NATS FanMember since 2018
4 years ago
Reply to  Ryan DC

honestly I thought Strass was very likely to break down after 2019. None of the rest of the names mentioned did I expect break downs. But Strass seemed likely. I think the problem is the owners are prepared to spend in a limit that keeps the team as a cash cow, but also makes us somewhat competitive. We have been lucky at drafting and developing the top talent in baseball, but not very good at developing other talent.

awy
4 years ago

he could hit for a lot more power if he’s lifting the ball more, but that ability seems to come and go in streaks.

his only competition is barry bonds so this isn’t to say he’s bad right now lol.

slamcactusMember since 2024
4 years ago
Reply to  awy

On the flipside: the fact that there’s still an obvious path to improvement for a guy who’s already this good is crazy.

arpollio
4 years ago

Great article.

But I disagree with the name. Joey Votto is “Your Favorite Hitter’s favorite hitter”. Just fyi.

EasyenoughMember since 2016
4 years ago
Reply to  arpollio

Unless Joey is your favorite hitter.

miltonfriedman
4 years ago

Rank the 4 players you would like to have the next 10 years(Forget salary)
Guerrero Jr.
Acuna
Soto
Tatis Jr

stever20Member since 2017
4 years ago
Reply to  miltonfriedman

To me-
Soto
Guerrero
Tatis Jr
Acuna

slamcactusMember since 2024
4 years ago
Reply to  miltonfriedman

Great question. Super hard not to take the shortstop at #1 but with those strikeouts…

I’d go
Soto
Tatis
Guerrero
Acuna

And I’d do cartwheels at the opportunity to have any of them for 10 years.

dwm8a
4 years ago
Reply to  miltonfriedman

I put them in two tiers. Tier 1 is Soto and Guerrero, who are at the top because their bats are so advanced, which we ought to expect to continue (and perhaps improve – although there is not much room to improve for either guy) over the next decade. Tier 2 is Tatis and Acuna, both of whom rely on speed and defense for some portion of their value, and those things strike me as more difficult to maintain over the course of a decade. I think I’d probably pick Soto over Guerrero, and Acuna over Tatis. All four are awesome, and I predict each one retires with at least one MVP trophy on the shelf.

slamcactusMember since 2024
4 years ago
Reply to  dwm8a

One thing to keep in mind: the fact that defense peaks earlier applies to Soto and Guerrero too. They might not get as much of their value from defense/position as Acuna and Tatis (though I think both are up in the air – as Acuna’s coming back from knee surgery and Tatis has already moved around a bit), but that doesn’t mean those bat-first guys won’t also become greater defensive liabilities as they age.

Guerrero’s already moved down the spectrum once. He looks decent at 1B for now, but if that changes he becomes a DH.

mikerosy
4 years ago

so soto is a better hitter than GOD, sorry, trout? even when carrer numbers of trout are better than soto this season (trout has 174 wrc+ in his carrer) .

mikerosy
4 years ago
Reply to  mikerosy

since 2012
avg obp slg woba wRC+

1 Mike Trout . 307 .422 .588 .422 174
2 Juan Soto .303 .433 .555 .412 157

since 2019

1 Mike Trout .295 .431 .631 .431 175
2 Juan Soto .307 .442 .568 .419 161

is this another comp like the yelich thing 2 years ago? trout is the best thing war can talk about. see you next year.

SenorGato
4 years ago

What’s the plan come 2024 to Not That Good him down on undoubtedly insane contract demands? His greed may know no end otherwise!

Soto’s dominance during the 2019 WS run was gd legendary…every PA was a show within the show…I ask the universe, namely our owners and Disney above, to Not That Good him onto the Cubs through definitely not collusion. Please!