Pedroia’s Possible Premature Parting
“You don’t know the end result, and that part’s hard. So that’s why a little reflection right now, I need to reevaluate, go home, chill out and see how everything responds.”
– Dustin Pedroia, 5/27/19 press conference
The fat lady hasn’t sung for Dustin Pedroia, but she’s at least warming up for her aria. Pedroia, Red Sox manager Alex Cora, and president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski took a break from any Memorial Day barbecues to hold a press conference updating Pedroia’s injury status.
As you probably know by now, the news was not of the optimistic variety, with Pedroia announcing that he was taking a break from any rehab that specifically targeted a return to baseball in 2019. Pedroia’s knee has been a problem for years and he originally underwent surgery to repair a torn meniscus after the 2016 season.
Not all of Pedroia’s missed 2017 time was due to the knee injury, with the infielder also suffering issues with his ribs, his wrist, and even a nasal contusion after getting hit in the nose by a foul ball he hit off home plate. Complicating the situation was the hard slide from Manny Machado in an April 2017 game — there was a controversy at the time whether it was a dirty play — that led to Pedroia limping off the field. Pedroia’s stated in the past that he doesn’t hold a grudge against Machado, but that he does think about that injury.


After offseason surgery during the 2017-2018 winter that attempted to restore cartilage to his knee, Pedroia has suffered numerous setbacks, only getting into a few games in 2018 and 2019. When asked if he would return, Pedroia responded that he was not sure he’d ever play again.
“I think time will go by and I’ll know more about it. I haven’t had a day off in a long time. Every day I wake up and I do some sort of rehab to do anything. I haven’t sat down and thought about something like that or anything, I just know that right now I need a break from just the everyday stresses of dealing with what I’m dealing with and that’s it.”
– Dustin Pedroia, 5/27/19 press conference
If Pedroia never takes the field again, it ends one of this generation’s most-debated player vs. player matchups, Dustin Pedroia vs. Robinson Canó. While the arguments have cooled down a bit with Pedroia’s injuries and Canó’s departure to Seattle, for about a decade, mentioning the “wrong” one as being better than the other was a sure way to enrage a Red Sox or Yankee fan.
Canó’s struggled a bit in 2019, still below replacement level a third of the way through 2019 and suffering his own less-severe injury in the form of a nagging quadriceps. As of now, ZiPS projects Canó to finish the 2019 season with a .257/.309/.403 triple-slash, good enough for only 1.2 WAR, his worst season since a down 2008. But even though ZiPS only projects Canó for a few additional WAR over his career, he’s won the career WAR battle by a margin larger than the inherent certainties of this summary stat.

Will a career-truncated Pedroia make Cooperstown at some point in the mid-2020s? I will have enough years in the BBWAA to have a Hall of Fame vote by this point — as will my colleague, Jay Jaffe, who is a few years closer than I am — and I am fairly certain to cast a vote for Pedroia.
I consider peak value to be significant, and Pedroia had the sustained peak of a Hall of Fame second baseman, 16th all-time in WAR7 (using baseball-reference WAR, which similarly has Pedroia behind Canó). But since nobody has appointed me the All-Knowing, All-Powerful, Emperor-God of Cooperstown, there will be a lot more people voting on Pedroia than just me, and their record of voting on peak value is quite mixed.
Kirby Puckett made the Hall of Fame easily, getting 82% of the vote in his first year of the ballot. But one has to wonder if the suddenness of Puckett’s disappearance — he literally woke up one day without vision in an eye and never played again — helped his case with the voters.
Other recent inductions are no more helpful as a guide. In terms of injuries slowing down and ending a career rather than a sudden stop, Pedro Martinez could be stated as a parallel, but the problem with that is that as terrific as Pedroia has been, Pedro contended for one of the best peaks for anybody, ever, and should have been a shoo-in before he even left Boston.
What worries me is the case of Johan Santana, a pitcher I would have voted for if I had gotten the opportunity. He had a very high peak brought down in early-mid 30s by injuries, and even when accounting for a very full ballot, Santana only got crickets, falling off the ballot after a single year with only 2.4% of the vote.
In the last 40 years, the only players who have been inducted by the BBWAA with such an injury-shortened career are Puckett and Bruce Sutter, who stopped by shoulder injuries. I’m not even sure Sutter would be inducted today as the voter base is getting younger and he didn’t even make it to the 10 years that is the current ballot requirement.
There’s the Veterans Committee route, but that’s even more uncertain. It was enough to get Addie Joss in, but it took 68 years after his death.
Perhaps the best case for Pedroia is Lou Boudreau. Boudreau was slowed down by a number of injuries, including the arthritis in his ankles that disqualified him from military service in World War II, hanging onto the ballot in his first years before finally being inducted on a weak 1970 ballot; other than Boudreau, only Ralph Kiner got even 50% support, though most of the rest of the top 10 was eventually inducted.
But what did the injuries rob from Pedroia, the Red Sox, and ultimately, all of baseball fandom (even the Yankees fans)? Let’s set the time machine to before the 2014 season, as Pedroia missed more than a third of the 2015 season with a hamstring injury. ZiPS saw an additional 87 career home runs, just over 1100 hits (enough to get him around 2500), and a finish just under 60 WAR. Only flying back to after the 2016 season still left Pedroia with enough projected WAR to finish in the upper 50s.
That would have been enough to give him a score of 59.0 per Jaffe’s JAWS by Baseball Reference reckoning, passing Bobby Grich for eighth all-time. And with an increased number of Hall of Fame voters looking at this kind of data, that may have been enough to get him where Grich and Lou Whitaker didn’t get: Cooperstown (Canó has already passed this number).
My hope is that given a full 10 months to rest his knee, Dustin Pedroia will find enough left to be able to resume his career and go out in the fashion he deserves, rendering this article happily completely outdated. If we’ve seen the last of Pedroia at second base for the Red Sox, everybody who cares about baseball will be a little poorer.
Dan Szymborski is a senior writer for FanGraphs and the developer of the ZiPS projection system. He was a writer for ESPN.com from 2010-2018, a regular guest on a number of radio shows and podcasts, and a voting BBWAA member. He also maintains a terrible Twitter account at @DSzymborski.
Pedroia always struck me as the most understandable scouting “miss” I can think of. If I saw a guy in the minors who was his size and swung like an absolute maniac all the time, I probably wouldn’t have figured that would work in the majors, either. And yet….
Not sure I’d call him a miss – he was a 2nd round pick and BA Top 100 prospect in 2006. I was young in ’06 so maybe I’m not familiar with the conversation around him at the time, but seems like he was pretty recognized to me.
So, keep in mind that Altuve was dismissed all the way up (I think Kevin Goldstein bucked the trend there), and Altuve cane after Pedroia. Even a stat line guy like Sickels had Pedroia as a B level guy. There isn’t no skepticism about certain body types now, but there was more of it 15 years ago, I think.
Whatever Manny Machado’s faults are, I don’t think that particular slide was at all malicious. He was definitely aiming for the base, and his right foot slid up along the side of the base at a point during the slide when he didn’t have a whole lot of say about what happens to his body.
I also don’t think you try to break the fall of someone whom you were trying to hurt. It wasn’t something that Machado had to do, and Pedroia wasn’t even falling directly towards Machado, but off to the side from the direction in which Machado was moving.
I agree. I still can’t get visions of the Aguilar foot-drag out of my head, but in that clip it looks like Manny actually reaches out towards the ankle/foot where their is impact, almost as to say “Ohhhh shhhit!”, and then he tries to catch him. That reaction seems involuntary and to my non-expert eyes, seem to be the actions of a man who just did something by accident and had immediate regret. Could be wrong, and it’s a shame that Pedroia was hurt, but it doesn’t seem malicious in my opinion.
Plus, we have enough evidence of how Machado acts when he’s deliberately trying to hurt someone to know that he just happened to clip Pedroia there and seems like he’s trying to stop himself almost as soon as he makes contact.
Machado’s spike was a foot and a half off the ground and a foot past the bag. Machado spent his entire life as a middle infielder. To believe that Machado, someone who has relinquished all benefit of the doubt, wasn’t intentionally trying to injure Pedroia is to believe the earth is flat.
That quote sounds like a guy who is done. I was hoping he’d get to 2000 hits to lock down his HoF resume, but maybe his participation in the Red Sox championships is enough to put him over the top. I hope the fans get a chance for a proper goodbye.
So is Cano a slam dunk in your HOFer in your opinion? Personally I think yes, but yet there doesn’t seem to be nearly as much love for him outside of New York as there was for other Yankees like Rivera and of course, Jeter.
The roids are going to really hurt him in my opinion.
Yeah. He’s going to have a damn near impossible case when a guy like A-Rod is out there with a suspension on his record too.
Pedroia’s home/road splits are about as identical as you will find for any player in history with the exception of the 80+ doubles he gained from the Green Monster. He was a great player and an important part of baseball history, but a Hall of Fame that has no interest in even debating Bernie Williams and Jorge Posada has no place for Dustin Pedroia.
Huh? His career OPS at Fenway is almost 100 points higher than his OPS everywhere else. His slash line is very much a product of that stadium, he was pretty average away from there. Pedroia was not a great player, he was a very good player on a team that gets a lot of media attention. I don’t think anyone besides red Sox fans believes he is worthy of the hall of fame. As far as Posada and Williams, I agree with you.
Exactly, that’s what I’m saying. The home OPS is padded by the 80+ doubles and is a reflection of the Green Monster. The rest of his stats are almost identical.
Players who do not have longevity have to have an absolutely dominant peak to be seriously considered for the HoF. Pedroia’s peak was fine, but it was not phenomenal. He has two seasons over 5 WAR, and both required a huge number of plate appearances from batting at the top of the order on very high scoring teams, coupled with a massive input from suspect defense numbers.
He was a very good player, but not close to being a Hall of Famer.
Agreed, I look at his stats and think ‘gray area’ at best. However stats don’t account for ‘playing in Boston or NY’ so I’m sure that will help.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/jaws_2B.shtml
Playing in Boston certainly helps Pedroia. Jim Rice was voted in after all. …however if Pedroia were a Yankee he’d probably have no chance. Just look at Willie Randolph. He was a better player than Pedroia, but not really given any HoF consideration.
I don’t think it’s worthwhile to keep guys out now for mistakes of the past, but there’s vast distance in his career vs. those of Whitaker, Grich and Randolph. So it’s important to note he’s had a different class of career than those guys. His contemporary competition is Kinsler, who I doubt is going to get a ton of meaningful HoF support. And you have to use BB-Ref to even begin the conversation because Pedroia’s Fangraphs WAR is a non-starter. It’s a very big Hall that includes Pedroia, and I’d like to visit that Hall, but that’s not consistent with the Hall we’ve experienced thus far.
Even if Pedroia’s knee does heal, given his age and all the time off I can’t imagine that he’d be able to hit anymore.
I don’t think Pedroia is a Hall of Famer.
In this era, he ranks fourth in fWAR (with 46.7), behind Chase Utley (62.9), Cano (56.6), his college teammate Ian Kinsler (47.5) and just ahead of the man of many gloves, Ben Zobrist (44.3). Of those five, I’m not sure any of them make it in – Utley didn’t get to 2,000 hits, Cano has the PED suspension, Kinsler was never considered the best at the position and has a fairly low batting average. None of those players are good traditionalist candidates, in particular Kinsler… but, if you think Pedroia is in, you have to seriously consider a vote for Kinsler as well.
That quintet also lags behind some players from earlier eras, like Bobby Grich (69.1), Lou Whitaker (68.1), Willie Randolph (62.1), and Jeff Kent (56.1). Kent’s peaked at 16.7% of the vote. Randolph got 1.1% and fell of the ballot immediately, as did Lou Whitaker (2.9%), and Grich (2.6%). All of those players arguably have better resumes by both traditional and newer school measurements, and none of them came anywhere close to induction.
As far as telling the story of baseball beyond just the numbers, it is true that he has three rings, but he didn’t suit up for the curse-breaking 2004 team, or the record-breaking 2018 team. Winning the MVP is a great accomplishment too, but plenty of one-time MVPs don’t make it into the Hall.
As a Red Sox fan and a Pedroia fan, I’d be thrilled for him to be inducted into the Hall. It’d be a great honor for a great player. But I don’t think I’d vote for him myself. First ballot Hall of Very Good, and, hopefully, a well-deserved retirement of his number 15.
I’d be almost certain Utley gets in. The other ones are less likely.
Trout has had 1 truncated year worse than Pedroia’s best ever, by WAR
Big fan of Pedroia, but I don’t see him making it in the regular HoF balloting. I think he, like David Wright, would stand a very good chance of getting in through the Veterans Committee instead.
Count me as one who wishes that there was a way to make case for Pedey to make the HOF. It is hard to do for injuries sapped him of his best game too early, he only played 100 games in 9 seasons, but nothing can take from all of Red Sox Nation the wonderful memories of watching him play 2nd asit should be played. This lifelong Red Sox fan has no difficulty taking sides in the Pedroia- Cano debate. Cano had slightly better offensive numbers but I am still trying to think of a time that Cano actually made an all-out face plant for a grounder in the hole. Pedroia was the best I have seen at diving and actually catching the ball, rather than looking for a place to land that won’t hurt. Pedroia was also unsurpassed at handling the scorching liner that explodes at the feet of the fielder. But what will forever separate them was their approach to the game. Each personified the extreme ends of the spectrum. Cano has always appeared to put less than his best effort forward, and it continues today, whether true or not, while Pedroia never took a play off or failed to reach back for everything he could find. It was becoming all too clear that the end was near or here for Pedey but all of Red Sox Nation was hoping for a miracle, let me hope one last time.
The idea that Pedroia never took a play off and Cano is lazy is pure spin. From 2007 through 2017 Cano played in 160, 159, 161, 160, 159, 161, 160, 157, 156, 161, and 150 games. Cano is very literally the player who took the least number of plays off in recent history. By contrast, the reason Pedroia is not a serious HoF candidate is because he took so many plays and days off.
On the one hand you are saying that Pedroia deserves extra credit for going all-out, all the time. On the other hand you are criticizing Cano for not making all-out face plants for grounders in the hole.
Those two things actually go hand in hand. One of the reasons that Cano stays on the field all the time is because he doesn’t sprint to 1B on a routine grounder the 2nd. It comes across as lazy, but it provides real value by being in the lineup day after day.
And of course he did try running out a routine grounder recently, and wound up pulling a quad muscle.
Same with Machado, who’s played more games than anyone else since 2015. How much you wanna bet the people calling him lazy for not busting it on routine grounders also lionize Cal Ripken Jr. and old-school ironmen who “never took a day off” for minor injuries?
Guys, you can’t make Trout comparisons because everyone is silly next to Trout. It’s like complaining that Usain Bolt isn’t as fast as a helicopter!
Fair enough, but Pedroia looks silly compared to all HoF second basemen, and several who were not given any serious consideration for the Hall.
46 and change WAR does not strike me as a hall of fame material. A bunch of players over 60 WAR are not in the hall and many of them have more than 1 7 war season. Pedroia was fun to watch at his peak, but it was to short a span of dominance to grant him the hall.
I wonder how Pedroia’s hitting would have been affected by today’s emphasis on launch angle. His career soft hit % is 16%. From 2011 – 2016, his GB/FB ratio ranged from 1.32 to 1.83. Had he tried for more loft in that period, would he have past 15 HRs more than the one time he did?