Point/Counterpoint: Clayton Kershaw’s 7th Inning
During the regular season, the Dodgers went 23-4 in games started by Clayton Kershaw, and 20-1 since the beginning of June. Kershaw and the Dodgers started to feel invincible, so, naturally, with Kershaw in the playoffs the Dodgers went 0-2, their year ending on a Tuesday in St. Louis. Plenty of things happened in Game 4 that played a role in determining the outcome, but this tells an awful lot of the story:
Kershaw’s final pitch of 2014 was a home run that turned a two-run lead into a one-run deficit. Under ordinary circumstances, that would just be a thing that happened. However, Kershaw had gone beyond 100 pitches, on short rest, in the playoffs. Despite consensus opinion, the Dodgers did have a bullpen, and a loss meant their season was over. So a tremendous number of people now believe Kershaw shouldn’t have pitched in the seventh, that Don Mattingly hung on a few minutes too long. And, certainly, we here have talked an awful lot about the need to be aggressive with bullpen usage in October. To talk this particular case through, from both sides, I’ve enlisted the help of my own brain. Usually it likes to sit my posts out, but this is a special circumstance.
Point
Six shutout innings, one hit, and 94 pitches? Don’t you have to look at that and say, “he’s given more than enough for a guy on short rest?” Why push it? You know you’ve got Kenley Jansen waiting in there eventually. Just how little can you reasonably trust big-league relievers on a playoff roster? Let’s not exaggerate the Dodgers’ bullpen disaster. They should be able to go a couple innings without allowing a couple runs. That would be an ERA of 9. The Cardinals aren’t some offensive juggernaut.
Counterpoint
Nothing against you, but it’s impossible to read this and not feel like it’s just being reactionary, responding to the results. Hindsight makes every decision a simple one. Listen to yourself, now: six shutout innings, one hit. One hit! Nine strikeouts! You know what Kershaw did in the sixth inning? He struck out Pete Kozma on three pitches. All right, I know, I know. He struck out Matt Carpenter on six pitches. He struck out Randal Grichuk on seven pitches. Maybe that’s a lot of pitches for striking out the side, but Kershaw also didn’t leave anything over the plate, and he finished off Grichuk going 74-94-88. There was absolutely no indication that Kershaw was fighting it. The only indications were that Kershaw was Kershaw, and that guy was probably the best player in the National League, at least.
Point
Kershaw’s sixth inning was great, absolutely, even adjusting for the Kozma factor. But then, we know how a pitcher looks in one inning isn’t very meaningful when it comes to how he’ll look the next. Between innings, there’s a long break, and no one’s ever been able to prove a “hot pitcher”. Couldn’t you also say that maybe Kershaw exerted himself striking out Carpenter and Grichuk on 13 pitches? Every pitch takes a toll, and not every toll is the same. Those were difficult strikeouts. Kershaw could’ve been feeling it.
Counterpoint
Kershaw this year had 19 starts of at least 100 pitches, and five of at least 110. There can be stressful at-bats in the first and second innings, too, but that doesn’t mean you take a pitcher out. There was no sign of coming disaster. Not one. While the short-rest thing was a concern, Kershaw looked every bit like himself, so you treat it like it’s any other ordinary Kershaw start. Why take him out after 94 pitches if he’s cruising?
Point
Don’t you have any faith in fresh relievers? It’s funny — exactly a year earlier, Kershaw started on short rest for the first time. He was good then, too, and the Dodgers removed him after 91 pitches. And they didn’t remove him because they needed a pinch-hitter. They removed him so that Ronald Belisario could face Andrelton Simmons, Elliot Johnson, and Jose Constanza, and they suck. Exactly a year earlier, the Dodgers weren’t afraid to go to the bullpen maybe a batter too early instead of a batter too late.
Counterpoint
And Johnson tripled, and Constanza singled, and-
Point
That can’t be your argument.
Counterpoint
Last year was last year. Circumstances are always different. The start before that one, Kershaw had thrown 124 pitches. In his last inning against the Braves, he generated a pair of line-outs. Look at the Dodgers bullpen. Jansen? Amazing! The rest? What’s the opposite of amazing? The first guy Mattingly had warm up was Pedro Baez. It doesn’t get much better after that. It’s not just about starter with a high pitch count vs. fresh bullpen. It’s about the specific starter vs. the specific fresh bullpen.
Point
But there’s a times-through-order penalty, isn’t there? It exists for everybody. Kershaw’s not immune, and he was going through the Cardinals for the third time in the game. That means something. All the hitters had seen him twice before on the day. You have to adjust your expectations for Kershaw down. Or up, I guess, if you’re talking about batting average or wOBA. This is something that’s so easy to forget, but it’s real.
Counterpoint
Totally, totally, that’s true. Pitchers get worse as they get deeper in games. But let’s look at Kershaw specifically. Over his career, the first time through, he’s posted a K% – BB% of 22%, with a .097 ISO. The second time through, he’s gone 18% and .105. That’s a little worse! But combine the numbers for the third time through and the fourth time through. We get 17% and .095. It’s the same, basically. Kershaw, himself, hasn’t demonstrated much of an issue after the first time through the order. That doesn’t tell you about Kershaw on Tuesday in particular, but with the quality of his pitches, and with his deception, is it such a surprise? Carpenter and Grichuk didn’t look too comfortable.
Point
But then there’s the part about being on short rest. We know that, on average, there’s a short-rest penalty, and while we don’t know exactly how it shows up, we know more runs score and we know pitchers don’t go as deep. Doesn’t it make sense that pitchers on short rest might fatigue a little earlier? Like, say, around 90 pitches, instead of 100 or 110? This can’t be dismissed. This was kind of the very biggest concern.
Counterpoint
But we don’t know. We don’t know anything about how short rest affected Kershaw in Game 4. It sure seemed like he was himself. His pitches weren’t any slower or worse. His sixth inning was great, leading up to 94 pitches. He said he felt great at the time, and while you can take that with a grain of salt, he also said he felt great afterward, physically speaking. Kershaw hasn’t referenced any kind of fatigue. If anything, I think maybe the short-rest effect was going to show up later, in the next start or the one after that. On the day, Kershaw was fantastic until he wasn’t.
Point
Wouldn’t you rather be too conservative than too aggressive? If you don’t know what the effect is going to be, wouldn’t you rather go with normal relievers on normal rest? It was Kershaw’s third time through the order, and he was on short rest, and while you don’t know exactly what that would’ve meant, it probably wouldn’t have meant anything *good* for his endurance. It’s either no effect or some effect, right? So that averages out to some effect. With the bullpen, you can just play matchups to get you through until it’s Jansen time. You’ve got Dan Haren to soak up innings in the event of an emergency. Don’t try to pretend like the bullpen was an automatic loss.
Counterpoint
Let’s assign something of a short-rest penalty. Let’s also assign something of a times-through-order penalty. Now, think about Kershaw’s foundation. He’s an elite starting pitcher — probably the best in baseball. So that’s his starting point. Then you knock him down a little bit. Then you knock him down a little bit more. What do you have left? Probably still a tremendous pitcher, unless you’re super aggressive with your dings. What are the expectations, with Kershaw at X% vs. relievers at 100%? Kershaw this year allowed a .521 OPS. Jansen this year allowed a .610 OPS. And he’s the stopper. Kershaw is so, so good.
Point
He is really good.
Counterpoint
So good!
Point
Look at how the seventh went, though. Matt Holliday immediately singled. Jhonny Peralta immediately singled. That indicates danger. One hit through six. Two hits in the seventh through two hitters. Mattingly’s plan was apparently to get Kershaw through three hitters. It took almost zero seconds for it to not work out.
Counterpoint
On the other hand, the Holliday single bounced off Dee Gordon‘s glove, and the Peralta singled bounced off Hanley Ramirez’s glove. Holliday’s was a groundball up the middle. Peralta’s was a soft liner. The contact was fine, but not great, and both plays could’ve been outs with just the slightest little adjustment.
Point
I don’t care about how close they were to being outs. A home run is a centimeter on the bat away from being a pop-up. Look at the pitches. The curveball that Holliday hit missed to the opposite side of the plate.
Counterpoint
The fastball that Peralta hit was just about spot on, on the inside edge.
Point
…and it was set up by a bad first-pitch slider in the dirt, and a second-pitch slider that hung up. Peralta hit it hard, just foul. Kershaw was missing spots. Was that his fatigue? If so, how do you let him continue? Why wasn’t there even a lefty throwing in the bullpen?
Counterpoint
So Matt Adams was the lefty that Kershaw had to face with two on and none out. Mattingly’s bullpen alternatives were J.P. Howell and Scott Elbert. I don’t care what you think about Howell and Elbert — even Kershaw at like 75% is a hell of a bet in that situation. Adams has a career .243 wOBA against southpaws, with nine times as many strikeouts as walks. Kershaw’s allowed a career .251 wOBA to lefties, with five times as many strikeouts as walks. If you plug some numbers into the odds-ratio formula, you get an expected matchup wOBA of [fart noises]. Kershaw is the lefty specialist the Dodgers wanted there. Even if you disagreed with Kershaw facing the first two righties in the inning, he did that, so you might as well leave him in for the lefty. He ought to be able to get the lefty. And then he was going to get removed no matter what.
Point
I’m starting to think maybe there wasn’t an obvious decision to be made.
Counterpoint
And there wasn’t. This wasn’t like Matt Williams leaving Tyler Clippard in the bullpen, or Mattingly pinch-running with Yasiel Puig while pinch-hitting with Justin Turner. There were reasonable arguments for removing Kershaw. There were reasonable arguments for sticking with Kershaw. Absolutely nothing about the decision was easy. And here’s the little secret: if you’re almost equally torn in two opposite directions, that means that neither choice is a bad one. If you can see leaving Kershaw in, and if you can see taking Kershaw out, that means there’s probably very little change in the odds no matter what you elect to do. So it seems like a really difficult thing to sort out, but in reality it’s simple. If you don’t know what to do, it doesn’t matter that much what you do. Either way, the numbers hardly budge.
Point
That’s not very fun to debate, of course. It kind of shuts the conversation down. People love to second-guess. People live to second-guess. And I think it’s always reasonable to reflect on decisions that get made, to try to at least learn from them for the future. It helps to see how managers think, and managers can also learn from their own experiences. No sense in always appealing to authority. Refer to, again, the weird-ass Puig/Turner thing. Is he hurt or not! If he’s hurt, why is he pinch-running!
Counterpoint
It certainly doesn’t make for compelling content. But I think this is where the issue is: after the fact, people want to believe that there is a right decision and a wrong decision. Like, when a manager is faced with a choice, and he has two doors, then behind one of the doors is success and behind the other door is failure. For Mattingly, on Tuesday, he opened one door and he was left to deal with failure. People want to believe success was only one door away, so, why didn’t he choose that door instead? But that’s not how this goes. With Kershaw, odds were the Dodgers would get out of the seventh still ahead. With relievers, odds were the Dodgers would get out of the seventh still ahead. The problem with life is we get a sample size of 1. Great to live, sucks to analyze.
Point
Now I feel like we’ve kind of arrived at the same place. Mattingly had the toughest decision to make in the world, which also meant it was a pretty simple decision to make. So what happens between all the manager decisions and the end of the game?
Counterpoint
Baseball happens.
Point
Like Clayton Kershaw allowing a home run on a curveball to a lefty for the first time in his big-league career.
Counterpoint
It’s all so beautiful and stupid.
Jeff made Lookout Landing a thing, but he does not still write there about the Mariners. He does write here, sometimes about the Mariners, but usually not.

“Baseball happens.”
The mind of Jeff Sullivan at its weirdest and finest. Great post!
Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it.
– Rene Descartes
Jeff keeps good company: Descartes, Dave Cameron, Dayn Perry, Cars… actually, scratch that name. As I was saying, Descartes, Dave Cameron, Dayn Perry, Kiley McDaniel, etc.
I think that keeping company with the NotGraphs murderer cancels out whatever good company he keeps.
Point: Jeff is awesome.
Counterpoint: Jeff is f-ing awesome!
i agree with both point and counterpoint
A great illustration of the damned if you and damned if you dont aspect of post season management.
Can anyone give us an example of a paradox?
I woulda also laughed if you used, “On the one hand. On the other hand. On the other other hand. On the other other other hand.” and so on.
Missing from this is the pinch-hitter in the top of the 7th factor.
I think I agree with you that it is a defensible position to think Kershaw on short rest after 6 innings is still better than the alternative.
I don’t really think that is a tenable position when you also had to let Kershaw bat in a close game to leave him in.
Leaving Kershaw in is a lot like firing up your gas grill thinking you have enough left to cook those steaks you’ve been craving, but all of a sudden the gas runs out and you’re stuck.
*I’m thinking of the cheap tanks that don’t have any indicator of how much is left. Which makes it very hard to tell, just like a pitcher heading into the late innings.
I disagree with both. Kershaw should have refused to throw. What would the Cardinals do?
The only winning move is not to play…
If only this was Deadspin, this comment would be gold.
It seemed clear to me in the 6th inning, that Kershaw was done. He was expending a ton of effort on every pitch, as shown by him grunting a couple of times. Also, his command had started to slip, as he left some pitches in bad spots that he got away with. He also threw a couple of fastballs in the 89-91 range. I’m sorry, but knowing that he is on 3 days rest, and knowing the previous workload on him over the last couple of years, I have to have Haren come in for the 7th if I dont trust my bad bullpen (by the way, where was Paco Rodriguez in this series?). Also, why wasnt Jansen for 2 innings an option earlier in the series? Knowing Mattingly, would he have been smart enough to go to Jansen for 2 innings had Kershaw actually got through the 7th?
We could also talk about what position they may be in if Puig isnt benched (Ethier ironically had that horrible baserunning moment thanks to Yadier Molina) or they hit for Kershaw in the top of the inning, but I’m primarily focused on the fact that it seemed like Kershaw was done, and though Kershaw at less than ok is still better than the other Dodgers relievers, normally, I didnt think that was a particular case where he was, considering what was happening, and also considering his history of pitching at less than ok against this particular team…He got away with hanging a breaking ball to Adams early in the game. When he did it again, it obviously ended up bad
If you’re arguing that you should entrust your season to a 4.1 FIP pitcher with negative bWAR, you’ve already lost the argument.
I’m not necessarily saying that Haren should have definitely been in the game. I’m just saying there were things that could have been done, despite the bullpen being as bad as it was. Are we saying that a major league bullpen cant get through 1 inning of a postseason game? We’re talking about a really SSS in this series. Yes, the bullpen was bad during the season, but they obviously had to use them at some point in games over the course of the year. If Mattingly had such little faith in his bullpen, why did he start Kershaw on 3 days rest? He had to expect him not to go as deep into the game as he normally would, which would suggest the bullpen needing to be used at some point.
I just realized how I worded it in this particular post. Thats my bad. I said it in a different way elsewhere yesterday
Of the 19 Kershaw starts of 100+ pitches this year, the highest start of game temperature was 86F (second was 79F). For NLDS game 1, it was 96F. I expect that has an effect on fatigue. Also consider: third time through the order, short rest, 90+ pitches, spotty pitch locating, pitcher spot AB in top of the 7th. The first two batters in the bottom of the 7th had 183 and 148 wRC+ vs. lefties in 2014 (128 and 164 in 2013).
The decision to have Kershaw start the 7th was bad, even with a poor bullpen.
Other bad decisions: not using Puig to PH (unless he is injured) and not using Jansen.
I know there’s that saying that a pitcher will let you know when he’s done, but why not be ready in advance of him being done? And not just basing it on results, either. The first hit was an infield single, not hit especially well, but how was the pitch quality? And with a guy coming up who loves to hit lefties, but is also a double-play candidate, why not have a pitcher ready right there? At least give yourself the option by having someone warm.
Is “so beautiful and stupid” as Silver Jews reference? (“Time Will Break the World”)
On regular rest Kershaw tired in the 7th and was left in too long.
On short rest Kershaw looked good through 6, and sending him out for the 7th seems not a crazy decision, but he should have been on a short leash.
If you start Kershaw on short rest you know you wont get 8 or 9 innings and will have to use your pen. Judging your pen based on a couple of guys having a bad 1st playoff appearance is never wise
Don Mattingly became Grady Little. Little lost his job, Mattingly should too
I won’t even mention the absurdity of sitting Puig.
So now it’s settled–there’s only one Koufax. Who threw a game seven CG shutout on one day’s rest after fighting in the Yom Kipper war.
He hit 4 homeruns that day too and developed the cure for polio between innings.
Ha… it was 2 days rest. But, to do another point/counterpoint, while Koufax’s ’61-’66 is certainly the height of pitching performance, Kershaw has never had command struggles like Koufax did in his first six seasons. Nobody has had the perfect career.
Jeff, you pompous ass. Sure you’ve represented the complexity of the situation at hand, but you’ve failed to capture the true spirit of the Point/Counterpoint exchange. Please try again with your clothes on.
Jane, you ignorant slut.
Here’s a question. So in game 1, Kershaw was criticized for, during the late game implosion, throwing too many fastballs. So after the first two get on here, he throws a fastball, first pitch, out of the zone. At that point, it becomes clear to anyone watching that the plan (following game 1’s lesson) is to get Adams swinging at fastballs out of the zone and throw breaking for strikes (i.e., to not rely on the fastball). The Cards have to know this. I know Kershaw’s curve is fantastic, but if you know it’s coming, and you’re sitting on it, any pitch (Rivera’s cutter notwithstanding) becomes a lot easier to hit (particularly when it sits up all nice and juicy the way the curveball did.
I guess my question is whether the Cards approach to Kershaw is, by the late innings, they’re able to predict with greater accuracy what he’s going to throw in certain situations and wait for that. It certainly looks like that’s what they’re doing. Which is also to ask whether Kershaw’s approach was a little too reactive and predictable. It was clear to me after that first pitch that that was how he was going to approach Adams for the balance of the AB, and I’m not smart.