Reds See Opportunity in Signing Castellanos
Nicholas Castellanos is not the last domino to fall in free agency, but he’s pretty close to the end of the line. After Josh Donaldson signed with the Twins and Marcell Ozuna settled for a one-year deal with the Braves, Castellanos was the next logical domino. And while the Cincinnati Reds appeared to have their outfield slots spoken for after signing Shogo Akiyama, theirs was also an outfield brimming with question marks regarding health, playing time, and performance. The Reds needed to go further to solidify their plan to compete in 2020. The result is a four-year deal worth $64 million with an opt-out after the first and second year, with C. Trent Rosencrans, Ken Rosenthal, Jon Heyman, and Jeff Passan reporting the various details.
It’s been a few months, but the contract is fairly close to the four-year, $56 million deal the crowd and Kiley McDaniel predicted as part of our Top 50 Free Agents list. Yasiel Puig and Brock Holt are the only remaining unsigned players on the entire list. The opt-outs do add value to Castellanos’ contract, but this contract is paying for a relatively optimistic view of Castellanos to begin with. The contract comes in sharp contrast to the one-year deal that Marcell Ozuna just signed, particularly given the opt-out. Ozuna is just one year older than Castellanos, but given the limited number of suitors for corner outfielders, one team having a strong, negative impression of Ozuna, or a potentially positive view of Castellanos, could have had a significant affect on the negotiations. That Ozuna came burdened with a qualifying offer and its attendant draft pick penalty might have been just enough to separate the two players; the pick the Braves surrendered was a late-third-rounder due to signing Will Smith earlier in free agency.
As for Castellanos’ strengths, his bat has carried him. The following table shows outfielders with at least 1,000 plate appearances over the last two years, sorted by wRC+:
| Name | PA | HR | OBP | SLG | wRC+ | WAR |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Mike Trout | 1208 | 84 | .449 | .637 | 185 | 18.4 |
| Christian Yelich | 1231 | 80 | .415 | .631 | 170 | 15.4 |
| Mookie Betts | 1320 | 61 | .413 | .578 | 158 | 17 |
| J.D. Martinez | 1306 | 79 | .392 | .593 | 154 | 9.1 |
| Juan Soto | 1153 | 56 | .403 | .535 | 143 | 8.5 |
| Cody Bellinger | 1292 | 72 | .375 | .550 | 142 | 11.4 |
| George Springer | 1176 | 61 | .363 | .507 | 136 | 9.4 |
| Ronald Acuña Jr. | 1202 | 67 | .365 | .532 | 133 | 9.3 |
| Kris Bryant | 1091 | 44 | .379 | .496 | 131 | 7.1 |
| Bryce Harper | 1377 | 69 | .383 | .503 | 130 | 8 |
| Ketel Marte | 1208 | 46 | .361 | .518 | 129 | 9.7 |
| Michael Brantley | 1268 | 39 | .368 | .486 | 129 | 7.7 |
| Nicholas Castellanos | 1342 | 50 | .346 | .513 | 126 | 5.7 |
| Tommy Pham | 1224 | 42 | .368 | .456 | 125 | 7.4 |
| Michael Conforto | 1286 | 61 | .356 | .471 | 123 | 6.7 |
| David Peralta | 1037 | 42 | .348 | .494 | 121 | 5.6 |
| Charlie Blackmon | 1330 | 61 | .361 | .537 | 121 | 4.8 |
| Rhys Hoskins | 1365 | 63 | .359 | .475 | 120 | 5 |
| Kyle Schwarber | 1120 | 64 | .347 | .503 | 118 | 5.7 |
| Starling Marte | 1192 | 43 | .335 | .481 | 115 | 6.7 |
Castellanos has been the 13th-best hitting outfielder in baseball the last two years. If you remove Kris Bryant because he’s a third baseman, and then take out center fielders like Mike Trout, Cody Bellinger, George Springer, Ronald Acuña Jr., and Ketel Marte, Castellanos was seventh among all corner outfielders. His time in Chicago certainly helped his cause, with a 154 wRC+ after the trade, but it wouldn’t be fair to call him a streaky hitter as he has generally avoided prolonged slumps throughout his career. Castellanos’ hitting isn’t really the question; the defense is the problem. The 5.7 WAR mark above puts Castellanos near the middle of the pack for everyday outfielders. Last week Tony Wolfe wondered if questions about outfield defense were holding up free agency:
After posting an astonishingly poor -64 DRS over four seasons at third base, Detroit moved him into the outfield, where he didn’t fare much better. He’s been worth -28 DRS over just two seasons in right field, a bleak picture that Statcast data more or less reaffirms. No one in baseball was close to reaching the depths of his -24 OAA in 2018, and while he improved upon that this past season, that improvement simply moved him from the worst in the game to merely 21 spots from the worst.
For Castellanos, the one-year change would make a big difference in evaluation if it’s real, even if he still rates poorly on defense. Back in September, Dan Szymborski ran ZiPS projections for Castellanos in a few different scenarios. In those early projections, he was worth 6.9 WAR as an outfielder and about a win and a half more than that as a designated hitter, even after you account for positional differences. As for what ZiPS says right now, here’s what Szymborski provided me:
| Year | BA | OBP | SLG | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | SB | OPS+ | DR | WAR |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2020 | .281 | .335 | .521 | 612 | 89 | 172 | 48 | 6 | 29 | 94 | 47 | 156 | 2 | 119 | -8 | 2.3 |
| 2021 | .278 | .334 | .521 | 576 | 84 | 160 | 47 | 6 | 27 | 88 | 46 | 146 | 2 | 119 | -8 | 2.0 |
| 2022 | .278 | .334 | .524 | 561 | 81 | 156 | 45 | 6 | 27 | 87 | 44 | 140 | 2 | 119 | -9 | 2.0 |
| 2023 | .276 | .332 | .519 | 540 | 76 | 149 | 42 | 7 | 25 | 82 | 42 | 132 | 2 | 117 | -9 | 1.7 |
That’s not great, but we see how age benefits Castellanos as he doesn’t decline at all as a hitter until he’s 31 years old and stays at least as an average player until then. Those projections are right in line with what teams have been paying in the free agent market this offseason. Steamer is much less optimistic, giving Castellanos a 112 wRC+ with roughly the same defense resulting in a 1.5 WAR. If that’s who Castellanos is, then the Reds have vastly overpaid relative to the rest of the market.
It’s true that Castellanos posted much better defensive numbers across the board last season, ending up at -9 runs by DRS (-19 in 2018), -5 runs by UZR (-13 in 2018), and -7 outs by Statcast’s OAA (-24 in 2018). However, just because the three systems agree that Castellanos got better results last year (which is likely true), that doesn’t necessarily mean his defensive talents improved. The sample is small enough that we should incorporate the previous poor numbers as well, and we see the projections essentially splitting the difference in UZR from 2018 and 2019 in forecasting 2020 numbers.
If we did want to be optimistic about Castellanos’ defense, we’d need to dig a bit deeper, as Mike Petriello did back in November. Petriello pointed to Castellanos’ inexperience in the outfield (24 major league starts prior to 2018), an improved jump, and the fact that his improvements were coming on the easy plays as reasons to think he might only be slightly bad at defense. Castellanos’ improved numbers weren’t due to a handful of fluky, really difficult catches. He was just getting better at tracking down the easy ones, which might translate going forward. Getting out of Comerica Park and it’s large right field and into the considerably smaller ballpark in Cincinnati should also help by giving him less ground to cover. If last season represented Castellanos’ outfield talents, that alone would be worth more than a win over the lifetime of the deal. If last season was just a blip, Cincinnati seems likely to be overpaying compared to the rest of the market.
The Reds currently have Castellanos, Jesse Winker, Shogo Akiyama, Aristides Aquino, and Nick Senzel as outfielders worthy of playing time, though only Castellanos looks locked into a full-time role. That will only lead to more speculation regarding Nick Senzel’s future with the team. The team could still try him at shortstop in the hopes that he could morph into an adequate-fielding version of Ben Zobrist, but there might not be enough playing time in the outfield for Senzel with the current set of players. When the Reds signed Shogo Akiyama, I mentioned the possibility of the Reds trying to swing a Francisco Lindor trade; this signing certainly doesn’t make that scenario less plausible. The Reds are right in the middle of a four-team fight for the NL Central, but one more big move would make them favorites instead of solid contenders. The Reds just got a little bit better, and they certainly improved their floor with all the depth they have in the outfield, but it’s hard not to think they might have another, more significant trick up their sleeves.
Craig Edwards can be found on twitter @craigjedwards.
I was skim reading this in the pub and somehow missed Nick Senzel’s name as I saw the reference to trying him at shortstop.
A few funny looks as I nearly choked on my beer! Loving this off-season and the teams trying to improve.
Nice write-up.
“Galvis and Moustakas as the double play combination on a contending team” reads like something that would be an outlier. We shall see.
Upgrading at SS and getting some cover for Raisel Iglesias (who has developed a nasty HR-allowed problem in an HR-friendly home park) for saving games would change ranking to “confirmed division favorite”, IMO.
I think the Reds are gonna win the division they underperformed by their run differential last year and have a strong rotation and could get stronger as I think Bauer will rebound and I think their offense will improve by a good amount. The rest of the division has weakened as the Cubs took a step back last year and made just one move and may still trade Bryant or Contreras and the Cardinals can’t hit and the Brewers have overachieved the last few years they lost some key pieces and don’t look too good. I really hope Votto rebounds some because near peak Votto is fun to watch.
They had a negative run differential (-10), how did they under-perform that?
Meant most of the season my bad
This is an excellent contract for Castellanos. Two opt-outs for a guy this young?
To be fair, I don’t think this contract will turn out that badly for the Reds. His performance on defense last year was bad, but not unplayable. He’s pretty consistent on offense. The dollar numbers aren’t that high for a guy who will probably be a league-average starter in an outfield corner, and maybe even better if you buy that the defensive improvement sticks.
But it is part of the Reds’ general philosophy that defense is overrated and it’s wild that they’ve been doing this now for a few years–playing everyone a slot above where they should be on the defensive spectrum–without it being a headline. Jesse Winker and Nick Castellanos in the outfield corners? I would not be surprised at all–at all!–if they decide to stick Senzel at shortstop and see what happens.
I mean, might as well go all-in with it. They must think their ridiculous ballpark gives an extra boost to their “bat only” strategy.
As much as I hate to give any credit to the Small Bears, their flyer on Steven Souza seems a much better strategy.
Maybe the reds also feel their cozy little ballpark helps to hide some weak defense in the OF.
I like that move, their rotation is really good but their offense was lacking a bit. Still probably weaker than the cubs and brewers but might be just good enough now and their rotation is now the best of the division or at least pretty similar to the cards.
I was excited to see how Aquino does in a full season, and now it seems PT will be hard to come by. Such a bummer!
If last year was real at all he will force someone’s hand. I don’t think last year was repeatable at all.
Also, I am still not buying the idea that Senzel is going to be that attractive for Cleveland. He’s projected for something like 1.5 wins next year, he’s having trouble staying healthy, his team control is ticking. Plus they’d be dealing their biggest star, by quite a bit, to a team not too far away. It’s not impossible, but you’re probably looking at Senzel being part of a package with a bunch of other attractive pieces.
Feels like some AL teams could’ve tried with Castellanos. He’s a great hitter but using him on defense is the equivalent of using a basket to collect water
wonder if the Reds are banking on the DH coming to the NL. Casty singing would make more sense…
AL teams have seen a !ot of him over the years.
I think you missed the point
What’s to miss?
AL teams know what he brings and knew his ask.
If he would settle for Ozuna money he might’ve gotten an offer but at his price they passed.
Ah I see
Why is Akiyama missing from your depth charts? You guys don’t have a player page for him yet?
Tsutsugo is similarly missing from the Rays, and Yamaguchi from the Jays, I guess none of the transfers from NPB have been added yet.
In a hypothetical trade for Lindor would Senzel and Winkler be a good start? Since the Indians need outfield help and Winkler is rather expendable for the Reds.
The price on Lindor is going to be insane. We’re talking about a Top 10 position player in major league baseball, he’s got two years of team control, and is the team’s unquestioned best player and most recognizable star. Senzel is probably only about 30-50% of the return that it would take, depending on whether they see Senzel as an FV50 or an FV55. Which is probably why Lindor isn’t going anywhere and if he is, it’s probably not to the Reds unless they really want to pay up.
The other issue is that Senzel isn’t a good fit for the Indians. They can’t play him at 3rd cause that’s where Jose Ramirez plays. And CF is the one place that’s actually a strength for them in the OF. So that’s means either Meracdo or Senzel has to move to a corner position which lowers their value. Meanwhile, a huge hole has opened up for Cleveland at SS…
Hasn’t Senzel played some second? I think Adam Frazier would be a good fit for Cleveland, if they were to hang onto Lindor.
Cesar Hernandez is there. I’m sure they could upgrade there, but Senzel might not even be an upgrade for 2020.
Senzel played 236 inmings at second in 2018. No idea how he did but as Sadtrombome pointed out Hernandez is the 2B for 2020.
I’ve tried to construct a Tribe/Reds deal for Lindor and keep running into the fact that Senzel isn’t all that attractive to the Indians,he’s an older prospect and they like them young.He’s also injury prone(shoulder surgery is really concerning) and doesn’t really excel defensively at any position.
One also has to question the fact that Reds have signed two free agent outfielders and a third baseman to play second base,all positions Senzel projects to play at,so how much confidence can they have in his abilities?
Plus the Reds farm system isn’t deep in top prospects either,at least ones that would be attractive to the Indians.
Winker is a platoon bat and a defensively liability in the outfield .
Amir Garret is interesting but I’m sure the Reds wouldn’t want to deal him.
I just don’t see a Lindor deal here,without the Reds significantly weakening their major league team(Suarez or Castillo for example)so what would be the point of them trading for Lindor.
Winker simply can’t hit lefties, at least to this point, and there’s nothing that indicates he will change that trend soon. He could, he’s still young, but he seems like the Trot Nixon type of guy who’s just not going to be given the chance, through no fault of his own. He doesn’t seem to be the brightest bulb brainpower-wise either. That could change too. Like I said, he’s still young.
Senzel needs to decide what he is. Does he want to be a 72% contact hitter who sells out for 20 or so HR and hits .260? Or does he want to be an 80%+ contact hitter who sprays line drives all over the place, hits 10 HR, but hits .290? The jury is out. It’s up to him and the organization. Personally, I’d rather have the .290 guy, but it’s not my decision. Also, for such a young guy, the injury issues are a major, major red flag. Staying healthy has been proven to be a skill.
So to answer your question, it depends on a) what Cincinnati thinks internally about Winker and Senzel, and b) Cleveland’s payroll needs and their appetite for risk. To me, I feel like in the long term, it’s a safe bet to say that one of Winker and Senzel will have a pretty good career. The other, meh.
If I were Cincinnati, I’d jump on Winker and Senzel for Lindor. If I were Cleveland? Winker’s up in 4 years I believe, Senzel in 5. Both could bust, most likely only one will. So if I’m Cleveland, I’m at least gonna try to get who I think is Cincinnati’s top prospect included. If not or if I like none of them, no deal.
I think Senzel can be better than .290/10. He has a line-drive approach, good feel for contact, decent BB-K ratios and at least decent power. I’d be willing to say closer to 25 homers at .270 by selling out or 15-17 homers with .305 by current set
Ooff, Winker and Castellanos in the outfield, yikes.
A good CF makes up for corner OF problems… the fact that they don’t have that covered is a problem. I imagine signing Pillar or something like that would make a lot of sense… yes, adding more OF to the mix but they will need a legit CF without great corners.
Travis Jankowski is on the 40 man and would definitely fit that mold.
Someone like Akiyama, I would think.
Am genuinely curious. I have heard everything from a well above average defender, to fringe average, to below average.
It doesn’t matter if your CF is Willie Mays, Ken Griffey Junior, Andruw Jones and Kirby Puckett combined, if you stick two Adam Dunn’s or two Gary Sheffield’s in the corners your OF defense is gonna suck
Moustakas and Galvis up the middle, too.
I pity the CF.
Reminds me of a quote from a Texas(?) CF on a bad team in the 80’s who was asked about his poor hitting: “You try hitting after spending an inning chasing balls all over the outfield.”
You are paying Castellanos to hit. I think the value of corner OF is vastly overstated. The consistency he brings with his bat far outweighs the few balls he won’t catch over the course of the year. Looking at IEF it looks like in the best case he would have caught less than fifteen more balls last year if he was nearly perfect. I would imagine most ended up as singles. If you watch baseball you will not reach the conclusion that corner OF decide baseball games.
Taking 15 singles from his “bat” drops his BA from .289 to .265. It’s a big deal to be a bad defender. Props to you for looking it up though.
This is actually an interesting approach.
Adding/subtracting defense to players’ offense to come up with an adjusted batting line.
Might not be 100% kosher but more intuitive to understand than WAR.
Feels like it would be a pretty fiddly formula, as one would have to consider all of: the ballpark, the pitcher, the fielder at the time of the at-bat…do you use the fielder’s fielding percentage at the time of the at-bat? his Statcast or other advanced numbers?
Unless you’re talking about adding/subtracting Castellanos’s defense from Castellanos’s offense, in which case I clearly overthought your statement. If this is the correct interpretation, maybe it could be classified as simWAR as it would be simplified to exclude baserunning.
I think you are missing a pretty key component. With bad defence there is pretty much no margin for error. If your bat is carrying all your value you need to perform at a crazy high level all the time to be more than an avg player. If your bat dips even a little bit you could very quickly find yourself down around replacement level. Meanwhile an equal hitter with good defense has much more cushion and is almost always going to be an above avg player. Lorenzo Cain and Charlie Blackmon put up basically the same fWAR last year (1.5 vs 2.0) even though Blackmon was 42% better at the plate.
With bad defence your ceiling is pretty much 3-4 wins even if you are a great hitter. An OF with good defense will nearly double that value. So I’m not sure how you can essentially just discount defense entirely.
But thats because defense is not really something you can evaluate just by watching. Our eyes lie to us all the time.
To be fair, it is very obvious at this point that teams aren’t paying for defensive WAR the same way they are for offensive WAR. Jason Heyward was the poster boy of this… his fWAR through his FA contract was similar to that of Machado (25.2 thru 27 to 28ish thru 28 for Manny), but Heyward’s value was greatly tied to his OF defense. Heyward didn’t get anywhere near 200 million while Manny got 300 million. Teams still favor the offensive talent in the modern game, even if they’ve gotten better at paying for other value added like Def and BR over the last decade.
Well because now Manny is far superior offensively
Machado was worth 25 more runs on defense than Heyward during their pre-FA years. Machado was worth roughly 5 more total WAR. The difference in AAV of their FA contracts is $7 million per year. Defense and positional value were considered in their FA contracts.
Maybe Manny was a bad example… so I’ll compare to Harper instead.
Would need to dive into the numbers, but had Heyward generate the majority of his WAR offensively (on his way to 25 FAR PRE-FA), I believe he would have been paid more.
Teams just don’t pay for defensive value the same way they do offensive value.
Oh I don’t think anyone would argue that teams dont pay for defence the way they do offence. That’s pretty obvious. But that really only comes into play with guys who derive most of their value from defence. If you have two guys who both hit similarly but one is terrible defensively and the other is good, the latter is going to be paid more.
I haven’t looked (and maybe there are no great comparisons) but I would be surprised if you could find an example of the former being paid more than the latter.
Well a couple things to remember;
-a glove first player is much different than a good hitter who also plays good defence. I was not talking about the former.
-26 year old 6-7 win 3b/SS are way harder to find than 26 year old 4-5 win corner OF. That alone makes Manny more valuable. Position scarcity is a real thing.
-While their overall numbers line up favorably peak Manny is quite a bit better at the plate than peak Heyward. Manny had 3 of 6 years with a wRC+ over 130 and even hit 140 his last year before FA (and he pretty much lost a year to knee surgery so really its like 3 of 5 years) Heyward only was over 130 in his rookie year. Every other one he was scraping 120 or below. So the gap between them offensively is quite a bit more than you are giving credit for.
-To illustrate my point evne though both players suffered severe dropoffs at the plate last year (neither cracked 110 wRC+) Manny was worth nearly double as Heyward.
Its really not great comparison. If anything it kind of supports my point.
Yeah, I shouldnt have used manny due to how good Mannys glove was. My point was moreso that teams will pay for that high end elite bat with average defense (harper) before they’ll pay for the great glove with the + bat.
You’re absolutely correct though; Manny was a poor comparison.
That is kind of what I got out of this too, I do not think teams value defense the same way WAR does
That’s simply because WAR overrates defense (including giving a nonsensical penalty to DHs). It’s still very important but not as important as WAR thinks it is. For position players other than catchers, offense is much more valuable than defense.
Also, Heyward was actually overpaid, even if his offense hadn’t ended up immediately declining. Paying him even more just because of his defensive value would’ve been absolutely ridiculous!
Range and jump are hard to eyeball unless you’re a scout.
Often it is the pitcher who gets dinged for catchable balls not reached.
I do not think scouts do a very good job either though
Scouts are best at gauging tools.
After that it is up to the team’s instructors and the player’s coachability.
If a tripod has two broken legs, one indestructible one ain’t gonna keep it standing.
He isn’t good enough offensively to offset his horrible defense. He hasn’t put up a 3-win season and he’s been playing full time since 2014, averaging 1.2 WAR/year.
Every one of the Reds’ transactions this year seems to just raise more questions about their future transactions.
They came into the off-season with holes at SS, C, and in the OF. So, they signed a third baseman (Moustakas) to play second base. That, of course, just raised the question of what they were going to do to fill the holes remaining at SS, C, and in the OF. So, they signed a pitcher (Miley). That move addressed a strength, not a weakness, and it pushed a competent young starter (Mahle) into the bullpen or off the MLB roster entirely, raising the question of whether the Reds might trade him to address some of their remaining holes. So, instead of trading him, they signed an outfielder (Akiyama). That raised questions about the role of Nick Senzel and whether he would be traded to address the remaining holes at SS or C. So, instead of trading him, they signed (another) outfielder (Castellanos). And that just raises more questions about whether the Reds will trade Senzel or otherwise trade from their newfound outfield surplus.
To be sure, I think the Reds are a better team after all their additions, but they still need at least one key move to pull everything together.
I’ll try to answer your questions:
1) The Reds signed a third baseman to handle second base because with Votto’s decline they felt they needed another left-handed power hitter and because they simply do not care about defense.
2) They signed Miley because it was a good value, and one of the pitchers will probably be hurt anyway by the time they break camp.
3) They signed Akiyama because he was good value, and because he very well might be an upgrade on Senzel in CF next year, and because no one else would take their money.
4) They signed Castellanos because he very likely is an upgrade on Aquino and Senzel and Winker (although only he’s only an upgrade on Winker because he doesn’t have to be platooned, so that barely matters, and he’s only an upgrade on Senzel because Senzel would be learning yet another position), because no one else would take their money, and because they simply do not care about defense.
Of these, #2 and #3 look like totally reasonable moves. I’m skeptical they really needed another lefty masher, especially at that price, and especially since there are so many options at second base for virtually nothing, and also because Nick Senzel should be able to handle second base just fine, and especially since he’s not really a second baseman. I don’t really care about Castellanos one way or the other. As for Senzel, they have never really had a consistent plan for him, so this is just an escalation of a pre-existing confusion.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat” -The Art of War
The Reds off season signings coupled with the Homer Bailey and Trevor Bauer trades last season really call into question the competence of their front office in my opinion.
They traded Trammell,Moss and Puig for one season of Trevor Bauer.
They traded Bailey and and two top prospects(Downs and Gray) for Kyle Farmer and three players who are no longer on the team and helped them to a fourth place finish.Now they bring in a 31 year old third baseman to play second,sign a 32 year old Japanese league player to play center and sign an outfielder who is a DH and can opt out of his contract pretty much any off season he wants.
Just making moves,doesn’t mean they are good moves.
It sounds like the GM was given a much bigger budget and told to win now or else.
Either it works or he’s gone.
That’s the only explanation that is logical.
I want to address the opt-out(s) again- cause while generally considered a player benefit, this is perfect example where I also like it from the team perspective. The general thinking goes, if player (Castellanos) has strong year he will opt out and you dont get upside on back of contract. If he struggles then he doesnt opt in and you have downside. Here i dont necessarily buy it. Say you are the Reds and prepared to offer 4/64 deal with no opt outs (i am not commenting on that valuation itself- just the inclusion of the opt out). I like the opt out from their perspective since- the downside risk was already there as you were willing to do 4/64 with no opt out so including it does not change the downside calculus for you. You are on the hook for that money either way. Now lets address the upside. Say Castellanos hits like Cubs Nick the whole year, he still puts up what 4 WAR? The assumption now is he opts out and you lose out on the next 3/48 for him. But with a player like him, as noted in other comments, with defensive limitations, his ceiling is probably 4 WAR- and one more year of 4 WAR doesnt necessarily shift his projections at this age so significantly from where they are now. I think you get out of a long-term contract for 1/16 and getting 4 WAR or just paying $4M/WAR which we all agree is great. I guess I struggle with the somewhat conflicting viewpoints that there is no such thing as a bad one year deal, and that player opt outs are exclusively beneficial to players. Granted the player has all the power/decision making- but I believe allowing for that decision, even if you dont control it, could have benefits to the team.
Opt-outs can have benefits for the team if, say, you are getting out of the back end of Nolan Arenado’s contract. There are really good reasons to think that even if Arenado is awesome in his walk year and opts out, the team would be better off in the long run because the back end of that contract is going to be a doozy.
Getting out of the back end of Nick Castellanos’ contract has virtually no benefits. He’s signed through his age 31 season or something like that. He’s likely to put up similar value each year. So if he puts up 4 wins in the first year and he opts out, you don’t “escape” the back end or anything like that. It’s still more or less a fair market deal that he’s opting out of.
There’s several clear benefits.
1. They signed him without losing a draft choice. If he plays well enough to opt out, he’s a QO candidate – if there were no opt out, they’d never get a chance for a QO.
2. Let’s say he opts out after year 2. You can QO him and maybe he accepts ( don’t ask me why he would do this ). Then you get him back for one year instead of 2.
3. They’ve got built in flexibility versus a standard contract. If they can’t sign any of their pitchers in 2020/21 and want to tear down there’s a chance he opts out. With a standard contract that can’t happen
Thing is, though…if he struggles, the only universes in which he opts out afterward are where he positively loathes Cincinnati, he retires, or it’s Bizarro World; there’s just no way he’d get as much money a year later and following poor performance. Any player of non-questionable intelligence would decline their option in this instance.
So no, in this instance I don’t think they’re beneficial for the team at all though you are correct in that it doesn’t change the equation as far as the risk assessment in getting stuck with a lemon.
The opt-outs don’t begin until after Year 2. It may not change your overall analysis much, but it’s an important consideration.
I’m more surprised at the opt-outs than the dollars. Castellanos has himself a fairly risk free next four years. He’s young enough to exercise the opt-out whenever he thinks is optimal, with all those guaranteed dollars an insurance policy. Essentially, he’s on year by year pillow contracts,
This seems like a substantial overpay compared to the deal Ozuna just got.
Ozuna def seems to be a player that the league doesn’t like for one reason or another. But if one of the two has a huge 4-5 win season I’d bet it is the guy who has down it twice.
there were rumors that ozuna had multi-year offers and preferred to take the 1 year deal with ATL. I wonder if the Reds were one of those teams and they responded by offering casty this contract
congrats to Reds fans on rooting for a team that is trying to win
I wonder what it would take to get Senzel off the Reds hands? They are certainly moving him around and messing with his upside a bit much if you ask me. He should be an everyday 2B. Anywhere else and you are not maximizing his talents. Just sticking him somewhere!
Why not give Winker a full time job? I’d rather have his hitting profile and weak defense than Castellanos’ hitting profile and weaker defense. Doesn’t seem like money well spent.