Scouting Julio Teheran, Major-League Starter

Leading up to the trade deadline, there was quite a bit of discussion at this website about Atlanta RHP Julio Teheran regarding his value and whether or not it was prudent for the Braves to move him at this juncture. I was often asked in chats about what I thought about the situation, Teheran’s value, etc. I responded that, going forward, I thought Teheran was a league-average starter, a No. 4 worth around two wins annually. There was some adverse reaction to that, which is understandable given that Teheran has made two All-Star teams before turning 26 and had already contributed about 2 WAR this season when I opined. Conversely, he’s also got a career FIP approaching 4.00 and has seen a drop in his average fastball velocity this year.

The Braves came through Arizona for a four-game set with the Diamondbacks last week and I was in attendance for Teheran’s start on Wednesday to get an in-person look at an arm that has undergone a substantial metamorphosis since his days as a prospect and one that will likely be on the market this winter. I try to hit a major-league game every now and then, just to remind myself for what I’m supposed to be looking in the prospects I see. I thought evaluating Teheran would make for an interesting piece, so I did it.

Teheran’s fastball sat 88-91. It touched 92 a few times; even late in his start he’d reach back for 92 in a big spot or in a pitcher’s count against a heavy hitter. It dipped as low as 87 but only for the first pitch or two of an inning after a long road half. Because of the drop and drive in Teheran’s delivery, his fastball comes in flat and has no plane. This is especially so when Teheran works in the upper half of the strike zone. Despite that, his arm is quick and deceptive, such that hitters have issues timing a ball that looks harder than 90-91 for the first few innings before they adjust to it.

Watching those two aspects of Teheran’s fastball push and pull against one another was fascinating. The meat of Arizona’s order, including Paul Goldschmidt, clearly had issues catching up to 50 fastball velocity early on. After a few times through the order, they began to tee off.

Teheran’s best secondary weapon as a prospect was his changeup. He added a slider in 2013 and it has become his most used offspeed pitch comprising a career-high 25% of Teheran’s pitch count this season. As you may have deduced based on its frequency of use, Teheran throws his slider for strikes. A lot of them. Not swinging strikes at balls sliding out of the zone but for looking, first-pitch, get-ahead strikes and in instances when he has fallen behind hitters past whom he’d rather not try to sneak a 90-mph fastball. Of the 28 batters Teheran faced, 13 of them were shown an offspeed pitch to start their at-bat, most of those sliders. There were several times when he’s thrown four or five of them in a row, all aimed for the outside corner against right-handed hitters.

You Aren't a FanGraphs Member
It looks like you aren't yet a FanGraphs Member (or aren't logged in). We aren't mad, just disappointed.
We get it. You want to read this article. But before we let you get back to it, we'd like to point out a few of the good reasons why you should become a Member.
1. Ad Free viewing! We won't bug you with this ad, or any other.
2. Unlimited articles! Non-Members only get to read 10 free articles a month. Members never get cut off.
3. Dark mode and Classic mode!
4. Custom player page dashboards! Choose the player cards you want, in the order you want them.
5. One-click data exports! Export our projections and leaderboards for your personal projects.
6. Remove the photos on the home page! (Honestly, this doesn't sound so great to us, but some people wanted it, and we like to give our Members what they want.)
7. Even more Steamer projections! We have handedness, percentile, and context neutral projections available for Members only.
8. Get FanGraphs Walk-Off, a customized year end review! Find out exactly how you used FanGraphs this year, and how that compares to other Members. Don't be a victim of FOMO.
9. A weekly mailbag column, exclusively for Members.
10. Help support FanGraphs and our entire staff! Our Members provide us with critical resources to improve the site and deliver new features!
We hope you'll consider a Membership today, for yourself or as a gift! And we realize this has been an awfully long sales pitch, so we've also removed all the other ads in this article. We didn't want to overdo it.

While I think Teheran’s command of his slider is exceptional, on pure stuff it’s just average. It will flash plus but generally isn’t nasty enough to miss bats in the strike zone. In fact, some of the more punishable pitches Teheran threw during this start were sliders, including one that Jean Segura hit out to dead center and one that Zack Greinke yanked to the warning track in left field.

We’ve seen pitchers, like Sergio Romo, make a living by possessing absolute control of their slider — and I do consider Teheran’s command (in general) to be plus. The changeup, once plus, is now fringe average, devoid of movement and instead living entirely off of arm speed. Arizona’s lineup was heavily right-handed on Wednesday and it’s possible that Teheran’s feel for the changeup in that start never developed because he didn’t have the opportunity to use it very often, but then he hasn’t used it very often this season, in general, which I think is a signal. The curveball is about average, possessing good depth, but is too slow at 70-73 mph to be relied on as a consistent weapon in the big leagues. Again, Teheran can throw it for strikes to start at-bats or use as a cute little trick when he’s behind in the count, but I don’t see much beyond that.

Okay, let’s recap. Julio Teheran has 50 fastball velocity with two opposing forces impacting its effectiveness in a way that I think creates a wash. His slider has become his best secondary weapon but more because of his command of it than pure stuff. It, along with the rest of his repertoire, comprises a harem of useful but vanilla pitches that rely on location and sequencing to be effective and, because Teheran has plus command, it all works.

Now, I’m willing to concede that Teheran could possess some subtle ability, something that the naked eye (at least mine) can’t detect that has allowed him to outperform his FIP by about half a run over the course of his career. But based on what I saw Wednesday, I’m comfortable holding firm on my initial assertion that, going forward, I expect Julio Teheran to be a league-average starting pitcher.





Eric Longenhagen is from Catasauqua, PA and currently lives in Tempe, AZ. He spent four years working for the Phillies Triple-A affiliate, two with Baseball Info Solutions and two contributing to prospect coverage at ESPN.com. Previous work can also be found at Sports On Earth, CrashburnAlley and Prospect Insider.

19 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
mrenick
9 years ago

enjoyable piece. I would love to see the occasional article looking at 2nd year MLB players that discusses how they have evolved in comparison to their scouting reports from the minors. There is such a demand for minors information and then guys exhaust their eligibility and continue to grow (or cease to adjust) and we have nothing new in terms of changed expectations based on a year or two in the majors.

DuPu
9 years ago

Eric! First of all, I appreciate how responsive you’ve been on Twitter with my prospect questions.

I would like to add a little background, some of which is likely pretty clear to informed baseball enthusiasts. This was Julio’s second start back from the DL for a lat strain. This obviously has nothing to do with his secondaries, but he definitely saw a notable dip in his velo on his start prior to the DL (he was sitting 87-89) and I have to wonder aloud if that is still factoring in to his velocity range/consistency. Could just be noise.

I’m left scratching my head about how the feel for Julio’s changeup comes and goes on a yearly basis, as well as his vanishing velocity. As you probably recall, Teheran’s redeeming qualities as a highly regarded prospect were his plus velocity (mid to high nineties) and his plus to plus-plus changeup. Now? He’s a different pitcher entirely. I wonder if the arm strength is simply going away as Father Time does Father Time things, or if his lowered delivery plane has anything to do with it. He really seems to stay back on his right leg in a very low/compact delivery and it just seems like that wouldn’t be ideal for pitch plane and possibly velocity.

But what do I know? I’m a numbers guy who lives in my mother’s basement.

ChopHoopla
9 years ago
Reply to  DuPu

another thing to consider is this is right around the time julio’s wife was having their kid

GlassOnion
9 years ago

Odd about Teheran is his avg fastball velo varies quite a bit game to game. He’s had games where his fastball averaged about 89 others where it was about 93. Is this normal? Why the variance?

eyesoverthecity
9 years ago

Teheran is an interesting case study. As you say, most scouts would agree with your assessment of him. But when diving into the data there are a few numbers that could prove him more valuable moving forward than 2.0 WAR a season.

1) He’s proven mostly durable over the past 3 seasons posting 185+ IP and will most like reach that this year as well. As we all know, WAR is cumulative, so more IP should help him. Also, he’s only 26. Plenty of good seasons could be ahead.

2) He’s made due on some bad Braves teams. Career 3.39 ERA on a team that leaves him pitching from behind a lot.

3) His LOB% is phenomenal! Since 2010, he has the 15th best in baseball. That’s better than guys like Mad Bum, King Felix, and Cliff Lee.

Personally, I think he could provide great value for the next 5 – 6 seasons minimum. Will he be traded? Maybe so, but with good reason… he is a good pitcher.

Travis LMember since 2016
9 years ago

Durability is obviously important (point 1), but as you say, that’s captured in WAR. I’m not sure how his ERA is affected by pitching on bad offensive teams — what’s your point there? If anything, I think he’s had average to plus defense behind him, which would (slightly) detract from his accomplishments.

Point 3 is the crux of the matter. LOB% repeatability has not shown to be a year-to-year skill, once you adjust for K rate. He’s beat it for a few years in a row. I certainly don’t think it indicates he’s better that MB, Felix, or Lee; if anything, it indicates he’s been fortunate in his results relative to them.

If you think he can sustain component-beating results, you probably think he’s an above average, maybe even a really good pitcher. If you don’t believe he can sustain that (seeing as few/no other pitchers have shown the ability to sustain high LOB%, after controlling for K rate), he’s probably about an average pitcher.

Also, most people limit their evaluation of him in his controllable seasons. You gotta pay FA prices after that.

Personally, I think he’s a good value, reliable pitcher who can take the hill 30+ times per year with a mid to high 3s ERA. I’m a little worried he could collapse, so I probably wouldn’t trade for him with that assumption in mind.

It seems like the Braves (and Barves fans here on FG) expect him to get a return as if 1) his component numbers are sustainable, and 2) his declining velo isn’t a concern.

Better make a deal with ARI before they give the boot to the dumbest FO in the game, otherwise I think the Teheran return will be lower than his fans expect.

Sn0wman
9 years ago
Reply to  Travis L

Ah, never mind. This is what I get for not reading further down before replying near the top.

TKDCMember since 2016
9 years ago

I honestly think that Julio’s FIP-beating is some combination of his defense, his ability to hold runners, and luck. Not sure how much is luck. But he does those other things very well, and they don’t show up on his fangraphs page (well, the defense does if you click on “batting” but fangraphs doesn’t account for holding runners and he clearly does that very well. I think it’s enough to argue that he goes from an average starter to at least a slightly above average starter. But I also think a decent amount of that FIP beating has been luck, so he’s a dangerous piece for the Braves to continue to use to win meaningless games rather than gain potential future value.

Travis LMember since 2016
9 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

For his career, baserunners are 40 of 55 in SBAttempts. 72%. Slightly above average, but I’m not sure that means he’s very good at holding runners.

OTOH, over nearly 800IP (4 seasons), he’s about 17 defensive runs saved (by DRS), so that’s almost half a win per year added by his defensive skills. (Not sure if that includes his baserunning; if not, you might tack on 8 rSB (stolen base runs prevented, above avg). 25 runs is 0.5-1 additional WAR per season.

I agree with you that it’s probably luck + skill to explain the gap. Fielding alone explains quite a bit of the gap.

LHPSU
9 years ago
Reply to  Travis L

Command probably has something to do with it, forcing hitters to swing at less than ideal pitches.

It’s just curious how much his stuff has declined compared to his prospect days. How many pitchers lose so much at his age without a catastrophic injury? It might be worth thinking about whether major surgery (TJS or otherwise) is in the near future of Teheran.

TKDCMember since 2016
9 years ago
Reply to  Travis L

His skill in holding runners is largely the pick-off, as he has 23 in his career, not preventing successful stolen bases. For reference, the two guys on either side of him in innings since 2011 have six (Travis Wood) and zero (Colby Lewis) pick-offs.

Also, holy shit, Colby Lewis has zero career pick-offs.

LHPSU
9 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

Jon Lester has 26 career pick-offs, but only 2 since 2012.

b0ndsj0ns
9 years ago

How many teams in baseball actually have #4’s that are worth 2 wins annually? Also if he’s being valued as a #4 then there was no reason to trade him. Even if he really is only a 2 win pitcher with his insane team friendly deal and the silly price for FA pitching he’s still providing excess value to the Braves. It would have only made sense to move him if you got an offer commiserate with him being a 1/2.

victorvran
9 years ago
Reply to  b0ndsj0ns

He’s providing that value for a terrible team that isn’t going to be good anytime soon though. So you’re wasting that value.

b0ndsj0ns
9 years ago
Reply to  victorvran

Well it depends on how long you truly believe the Braves are going to be bad and what kind of offers people were giving for Julio. If teams were making offers like he’s a 4 then he’s under contract till 2020 for dirt cheap and that’s more valuable than a #4 trade package. Now if someone was willing to make an offer like he was a #2 or fringe #1 and the Braves rebuffed them because they decided they would only move him for something at least as good as the silly Miller deal then that would be a little short sighted. We’ll probably never know what they could have gotten for him, but considering the price some teams paid for relievers I’d have valued Julio quite high also if I were the Braves.

LeschiLarryMember since 2025
9 years ago

You say “after a few times through the order they begin to tee off.” You watched one game which was after he was returning from an injury. If you go to any good database you will find that what you said is just not true in 2016 (and probably not in other years either.) I could go inning by inning or #times facing the same batter in the same game, but any way you slice it a summary says that in innings 1-3 he has a triple slash line of .230/.287/.368. In innings 4-6 he has a triple slash line of .215/.258/.388 and in innings 7-9 (small sample size) he has a triple slash line of .186/.238/.305 Thus your ultra small sample size of observing one game for a pitcher who was coming off the DL has led you to make a WRONG conclusion which is at odds with his FULL 2016 seasons’s work of 23 games started (and it includes the clunker you saw.) Also note that he has not had the benefit of facing the team in baseball with the worst record (his own) and has started 3 games against Washington, 2 games against the Dodgers, 1 game against the Cubs, 1 game against St. Louis, 1 game against the Red Sox, one in Coors, etc. and only ONE against the other weak sister team in his division, Philadelphia. On average a very stiff group of opponents. In many of these games he has pitched “from behind” (which adds “stress” to a pitcher.)

Hertzy3
9 years ago

You say you can’t put a finger on his potential ability to out-perform his FIP, but Eno Sarris wrote an article back in June that explains exactly what it is. It is his ability to get pop-ups. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/is-julio-teheran-an-ace/

Joseph
9 years ago

Obviously a well-studied piece, but I think Teheran is just one of those guys with intangibles that make him better than his similarly-tiered peers. Reminds me of David Wells in his prime in that way.

ddickey25
9 years ago

Last night vs. Padres, his 2nd back from injury, he was back up to almost 93 on the 4 seamer per Brooks.