The Astros Reached Their Apogee in 2019
“Clunk! Clang!” – Anonymous Garbage Can
In terms of winning baseball games, the Astros executed a model rebuild. When Jeff Luhnow took over after the 2011 season, Houston was a craggy mess. The team hired Ed Wade after the 2007 season to help transition from the Killer B’s era squads, but Wade’s drafts didn’t bear fruit for a long time, and at the major league level, his imagination appeared to find its limit at signing a lot of declining veterans. Luhnow’s task was to tear the team down to the foundation, and then build it back up into something that looked like a modern roster led by a modern front office. That task, he accomplished.
The Setup
Flags fly forever, and Houston secured their first World Series victory in 2017. That 2017 World Series was one of the more entertaining ones in recent memory, the perfect topper to the second 100-win season in team history. As importantly, the Astros were determined not to fall into the complacency trap that tends to snare the champs. Once a team wins baseball’s biggest prize, the natural impulse seems to be towards conservatism, to simply keep the band together and try to crank out albums identical to its prior hits.
But the post-2018 offseason was defined by a big move. Houston acquired Gerrit Cole from the Pittsburgh Pirates for a package led by Joe Musgrove and Michael Feliz. And it paid off wonderfully as Cole, no longer fettered by Pittsburgh’s increasingly dated philosophy of inducing grounders with his hard stuff, flourished in an environment that encouraged him to attack batters directly. Cole went from striking out 23% of batters faced to 35%, an improvement much greater than can be explained away by the overall increase in strikeouts around baseball. Houston’s other big pitcher pickup, Justin Verlander, continued to dominate in his post-Tigers career; the Astros had two Cy Young contenders on the roster that they did not have in July 2017.
Unlike most teams that experience such a significant jump in their record — the Astros added 17 wins from 2016 to 2017 — there was no disappointing regression. Indeed, the team actually added wins, finishing 103-59. A World Series repeat was not in the cards as Houston got bounced from the American League Championship Series in five games when the pitching proved unable to stop the Red Sox offense.
Last winter didn’t feature any trade fireworks, and like most of baseball, the Astros had a rather boring offseason. They weren’t completely silent — see Boston for a team that did just about nothing — first adding a more offensively-minded catcher in Robinson Chirinos, and then snagging Michael Brantley with a team-friendly two-year, $32 million contract. Also added was Wade Miley, one of 2018’s biggest surprises, who allowed a 2.57 ERA and a 3.59 FIP in 16 starts for the Brewers after his disastrous stint with the Orioles.
The Projection
ZiPS projected 97 wins for the Astros, but that was hardly a disappointing projection given that teams rarely win 100 games with average luck. The biggest concern was the rotation depth. It’s quite difficult to have an actually lousy rotation when you have Cole and Verlander up top, but the team lost a lot of depth in the offseason. Even assuming Miley was going to be as effective as he was in Milwaukee, the team needed to replace three-fifths of its starters after the losses of Charlie Morton (the Rays), Dallas Keuchel (eventually the Braves), and Lance McCullers Jr. (surgery). The computer saw the rotation as Houston’s vulnerability if they rolled snake eyes on a couple of their key pitchers.
There was no corresponding concern with the offense. Carlos Correa was an injury risk, but that wasn’t a new source of risk for the team. Alex Bregman’s 2018 wasn’t seen by ZiPS as a fluke, and he was projected to continue to be the best player in the lineup, finally taking over that mantle from José Altuve. Neither Kyle Tucker nor Yordan Alvarez even had an obvious role coming into the season, but they already had OPS+ projections above 100. ZiPS was less excited about Josh Reddick and Yuli Gurriel, but the team had alternatives at their positions if they disappointed.
ZiPS saw the Astros as the clear favorites, but not invincible. The A’s were projected at 86 wins, close enough that there were scenarios in which they could once again give Houston a fright.
The Results
There was no such fright in 2019, and though Houston didn’t have possession of first place in the AL West for all 162 games, the terror never advanced past the realm of slight anxiety. Houston’s start was on the rough side, dropping three of four to the Rays and two of three to the Rangers, but they went on a 10-game winning streak to effectively reset the season. By the end of April, Houston stood atop the division and never gave up that position again. Oakland’s 12-3 run in July made things a little tighter, but even at the race’s closest point in mid-July, our playoff odds still gave the Astros a 98% chance of winning the division.
As in their 2017 run, the Astros made a huge move at the deadline to bolster the rotation. This time, the veteran pitcher added was Zack Greinke, with Seth Beer, Corbin Martin, J.B. Bukauskas, and Josh Rojas heading to Arizona in the exchange. In a modern game with hard stuff thrown anywhere in the zone, Greinke is a throwback pitcher, a crafty lefty in the body of a right-handed pitcher. With curves ranging from loopy to eephus and a fastball that pitch classification algorithms occasionally mislabel as a changeup, Greinke was having his best season since his Cy Young runner-up campaign in 2015.
Yordan Alvarez was called up in June and crushed the ball so thoroughly that he easily won the Rookie of the Year award despite playing in only 87 games. Miley collapsed down the stretch, devolving from a pitcher with a ERA under three to not even making the post-ALDS playoff roster in just six weeks, and Aaron Sanchez was only healthy enough to make four middling starts, but by this point of the season, Houston was looking ahead to the postseason. Jose Urquidy became a name to know in the season’s final weeks and had a wonderful October, which included an über-clutch start in Game 4 of the World Series, but the team’s starting pitching generally wasn’t sharp against the Nationals, and Houston lost in seven games.
But the story of the season cannot be told without touching on the not-so-good things that transpired off the field. Verlander’s heat with Detroit Free Press writer Anthony Fenech led to a pointless brouhaha that gave little advantage to the Astros. Then, when the team’s focus should have been celebrating a huge victory in the American League Championship Series, assistant general manager Brandon Taubman thought it appropriate to taunt a group of female reporters about the acquisition and success of Roberto Osuna, who had been suspended for 75 games in 2018 for violating Major League Baseball’s Joint Domestic Violence, Sexual Assault and Child Abuse policy. And after the World Series, Mike Fiers spoke out about the Astros having electronically stolen signs during the 2017 season and relaying those signs to batters using a trash can, something MLB can hardly overlook, even given the sport’s rich history of electronic chicanery.
When making baseball moves, mistakes are inevitable. Even a well-run team like the Astros can miss on a Mark Appel or have a Ramón Laureano trade come back to bite them. But this kind of stuff is inexcusable. I sadly expect players like Osuna to get jobs so long as their abilities positively affect the bottom line and the win-loss record. That doesn’t mean the team should pretend there aren’t bigger, more important stakes in play, or try to wait out the news cycle when a senior executive behaves toward credentialed media as he might at a frat party.
What Comes Next?
Houston does face significant baseball challenges in the coming years. The team has traded away quite a lot of the depth in the farm system, to the extent that in the final 2019 ranking by Eric Longenhagen and Kiley McDaniel, they were down to just a single Top 100 prospect in Forrest Whitley, the only prospect on the team with a future value grade above 45. That’s not to say that Houston shouldn’t have traded off good prospects in an attempt to win a second World Series, but simply that as with the Cubs, there are consequences to face in return for the benefit.
The team will be helped by having Zack Greinke and Yordan Alvarez for a full-season, and Kyle Tucker will have plenty of opportunities in the near future. But losing Gerrit Cole is a real loss for the Astros. A front-four of Verlander, Greinke, Urquidy, McCullers, and Urquidy ought to be very good, but it’s not a question-free group, and the rotation thins out quickly after the Standard Brad Peacock Fallback Position.
Further down the line, Houston will have to grapple with a lot of key talent reaching free agency. Brantley and Springer hit the market next winter, and after 2021, the Astros have Verlander, Greinke, Correa, and McCullers all reaching free agency. Keeping that group together past 2021 will cost a lot more than it does now, which might be a problem with the team’s luxury tax number shooting past $230 million without Gerrit Cole on the roster.
Bregman and Altuve are signed long-term, but it looks a lot to me as if Houston is headed towards a rebuild after the 2021 season. At that point, Bregman, with three years and $74 million on his contract, could become a prime trade candidate if the team’s heading into a down period. The 2022 Houston Astros may look very different from the 2019 team, unless they are able to pull a bunch of rabbits out of hats.
Complicating the magic show is the unknown penalty for whatever it is we call L’affaire Trash Can (please not Trashgate). While social media has naturally endorsed penalties that seem unrealistic — I’ve seen demands for MLB to ban the entire front office for life and others saying that the entire Astros should be made free agents — it seems likely that the punishment will be severe. I have little doubt that the Astros aren’t the only team that has pushed sign-stealing into the verboten realm, but it’s hard to complain about the crumbs elsewhere when it’s your hand caught in the cookie jar. Penalties that include the loss of draft picks or revenue-sharing funds could have a real effect on those post-2021 Astros rosters. But we’ll have to wait to find out.
ZiPS Projection – Yordan Alvarez
Alvarez’s seemingly effortless power, when combined with the totally-normal-MLB-swears baseball turned out to be a more potent combination than tomato soup and grilled cheese, cookies and milk, or aging Gen-Xers and 90s Simpsons quotes. An interesting-yet-raw slugger picked up from the Dodgers for one of the Joshes Fields, Alvarez hit .343/.443/.742 in Triple-A, one of those lines so bonkers that someone might think you’re reciting OBP/SLG/OPS until they realize the numbers don’t add right. In just over a half-season in the majors, Alvarez added 27 bombs to the 23 he hit for Round Rock.
While there will be some regression, and there’s always the chance that a significant change in the ball affects his game, Alvarez proved to be a fairly polished offensive talent with a surprising amount of patience and contact ability for a young slugger. He’s never going to have much value with the glove and even less running the bases, but even if he doesn’t match 2019, I think he’s done enough to establish himself as a real offensive force.
| Year | BA | OBP | SLG | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | SB | OPS+ | DR | WAR |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2020 | .287 | .370 | .564 | 495 | 85 | 142 | 30 | 1 | 35 | 107 | 66 | 139 | 4 | 148 | 0 | 3.8 |
| 2021 | .287 | .370 | .564 | 495 | 85 | 142 | 30 | 1 | 35 | 107 | 66 | 139 | 4 | 148 | 0 | 3.7 |
| 2022 | .284 | .372 | .567 | 483 | 84 | 137 | 30 | 1 | 35 | 105 | 69 | 140 | 4 | 149 | 0 | 3.8 |
| 2023 | .282 | .373 | .560 | 482 | 84 | 136 | 30 | 1 | 34 | 104 | 71 | 142 | 4 | 148 | 0 | 3.7 |
| 2024 | .278 | .373 | .564 | 475 | 84 | 132 | 29 | 1 | 35 | 104 | 73 | 144 | 4 | 149 | 0 | 3.8 |
ZiPS see Alvarez as basically in a plateau, though obviously, his year-to-year variation is going to be wider than five years of mean projections indicate. While the WAR numbers may feel slightly low compared to his 2019 debut, ZiPS is hedging its bets on his playing time given his short professional career, and only one season in which he’s played 100 games. ZiPS sees Alvarez’s basic story, that of a young, All-Star slugger who can maintain a fairly high BABIP, as non-fiction.
Dan Szymborski is a senior writer for FanGraphs and the developer of the ZiPS projection system. He was a writer for ESPN.com from 2010-2018, a regular guest on a number of radio shows and podcasts, and a voting BBWAA member. He also maintains a terrible Twitter account at @DSzymborski.
I think they are still really good, their lineup is still super deep. There is age risk in verlander and greinke but even if one of them falls off a cliff they have the prospects or young hitters to trade for another star starter or two. I think they have a good chance to win 100+ again.
given the…. aggressive Zips projection for Alvarez (that appears totally reasonable, btw), I’m wondering what it will be this year. Wouldn’t be surprised to see it spit something out in the 90s. Zips seems to have the Astros prediction down pat, well within the confidence interval.
Depth charts still has the Astros as the best team in baseball despite losing Gerrit Cole to the Yankees, and it’s easy to see why: their lineup projects to be almost 5 wins better than the 2nd place Dodgers! The bullpen is projected 5th best in baseball and the rotation (their clear weakness) 7th best in baseball. They are crazy good.
I don’t know if they have the prospects to do so anymore.
I think they’ll be fine this year but they are right up against the luxury tax so they don’t have a lot of room to add salary. They also don’t have the incredibly deep minor league system they had just a year or two ago either. Their 3 actual trade chips are Alvarez (part of the present, can’t see trading him), Tucker (need him to replace Springer next year when Springer walks) and Whitley (who was abysmal last year, then hurt, then merely bad rather than abysmal when he came back so he’s far from max value right now).
I agree with Dan – they have some real challenges coming up. Yes they free up some salary the next couple years but that’s only because some of their very best players are reaching FA – Springer, Peacock, Marisnick, Reddick, Brantley next offseason with Grienke, Verlander, McCullers, Correa, Osuna and Devenski the following offseason. Yes that frees up salary but it’s not exactly like any of those are albatross contracts where you can now spend the same money on a better player. IN fact, many are still in their arbitration years and relative bargains. So you’re looking at spending the same or even more to replace that production which puts you above the luxury tax.
Marisinick plays for the Mets
You think they can win 100 games without knowing what pitches are coming?
When will the Astros reach their 3D Realms?
Love your work, Dan—I’d be interested to hear if you think some hitters on this team will regress next year given the fact that the sign stealing system has been exposed. Assuming they were using it last year (which seems to be the case given video/audio evidence), many of the hitters will have to take a step back, no? Obviously they are a very talented group, but the fact is they cheated (to some extent) last year, and they won’t be able to (to the same extent) this year.
Also hate to do this, but there’s an issue with this sentence:
“A front-four of Verlander, Greinke, Urquidy, McCullers, and Urquidy (REPEATED) ought to be very good, but it’s not a question-free group, and the rotation thins out quickly after the Standard Brad Peacock Fallback Position.”
This is the key question–how much of the success is due to the sign-stealing? We have no idea. If we assume no effect at all, this team is still a superteam, the favorite in the AL West and within striking distance of the Yankees for favorite in the AL. If we assume there are going to be some effects, then we have no idea.
we have a nice quasi experiment setup, don’t we? The trick is going to be appropriate specification to clean out all the noise
I would disagree with no idea. Astros advantage was likely between 0 and 10 wins. Considering other teams likely put in counter measures for Astros last season, and Astros did fine in playoffs while monitored, I’d expect advantage was closer to 0 last season than 10. I see no reason to believe Astros will not be one of the favorites for the AL pennant.
The Astros notably teed off on breaking balls against the Rays and Yankees, including two massive home runs on the only offspeed stuff Severino threw, and forced Paxton to battle with only his fastball. Look at Scherzer’s final start in the WS and tell me seriously you don’t think that a) the Astros were doing this up until the end and b) they benefited tremendously from it
I don’t think the Astros benefited tremendously from it in 2019. If the Astros were able to beat MLB monitors in the playoffs, they will do it next season.
That is something I wonder as well. What makes people think they will quit cheating, even with the league watching?
It’s like SMU’s death penalty–getting caught the first time didn’t do it, it was evading the restrictions after they agreed not to cheat. Lubenow and Hinch face very long term bans if they get caught again.
They clearly knew what was coming from Glasnow. Glasnow thought or said he was tipping his pitches but…we all have to wonder now. After a short mound visit to change the signs in that inning, everything was back to normal. I don’t know if the Astros win that game if they don’t score 4 in the first.
Two points:
1. “Considering other teams likely put in counter measures for Astros last season” – Even having to put in counter measures will create a disadvantage for the opposing team. It makes it that much harder to coordinate between pitcher and catcher, having to constantly switch signs. Creating confusion is giving yourself an advantage.
2. “Astros did fine in playoffs while monitored” – What is the evidence that they were being monitored, or that they stopped doing what they were doing? And did they do fine? Small sample sizes and all, and they were facing better pitching, but most of their hitters underperformed.
On 1, it is still likely a small advantage.
On 2, it came out during whistling incident with the Yankees that MLB had people stationed near the Astros dugout though my impression was it was a league-wide thing for the playoffs. If the Astros were successful with stealing signs in the 2019 playoffs, I doubt investigation figures out what they did, and that the Astros would change. On being fine…Astros made it to Game 7 of World Series and Astros playoff xwOBA was 0.343 while facing better pitchers in the playoffs versus 0.340 in regular season. Astros batters had bad luck finding holes, and lacked clutch hitting.
Though, I will say Astros batters looked different to me. It could be the bad luck as “looked” is pretty subjective.
Sort of where I was on this. And we also don’t know if their pitchers were cheating either. Basically everyone magically added a ton of spin. I know this isn’t about fantasy, but from a fantasy perspective I am avoiding the team overall. The rotation is solid, but, as can be said about basically all teams they are one pitcher away from being bad.
The question isn’t whether their success is due to sign-stealing, cause clearly sign-stealing helps. The question that no one seems to be asking is how much did they steal signs electronically in 2019.
It’s clear by now that a lot of their opponents knew some of the stuff they were trying to do for a while now, and presumably were already countering it. And that MLB has implemented a lot of rules in 2019 to curtail some of the things the Astros were accused of doing. If so, their 2019 season may be more legit than what many fans believe.
Or they could’ve just found new ways to cheat that has gone uncaught but if so then we can assume they’d keep doing it in 2020 in which case it wouldn’t matter in terms of projections. Since they’d still keep whatever cheating bump they had been accumulating in the eyes of the projection systems.
IMO there isn’t a chance the Astros keep cheating. Getting caught would be to costly
Trashtros
Yep
Asstros
the post-2018 offseason was defined by a big move. Houston acquired Gerrit Cole from the Pittsburgh…. Should be post 2017 offseason?
Love the quote at the top of the article.
As I recall, it was Eric and Kiley who covered the Astros, and ranked Alvarez #6? [Laughably underrated!] I see a lot of holes in this article as well, and the least you could do is find out the glitch in projection of Alvarez around 100 OPS+ before the season. Anyone who witnessed him in the Grapefruit League alone saw those exit velos, and should have known he was only in RR on Opening Day because Super Two. Tucker was likewise held back beacuse they had committed to Reddick, and their desire to pay cheap help w/o options as placeholders (White Kemp Stassi, “also-ran” talent for 1/2 season). Apparently, the F.O. knew they would clearly eclipse the other inadequate 97-win projection. They won 107 games with significant injuries, while dipping into over a dozen prospects from a farm you claim only has a few pieces worthwhile? Corbin Martin, Garrett Stubbs, Framber Valdez, Jack Mayfield, Myles Straw, Jose Luis-Hernandez (Urquidy), Cy Sneed, Derek Fisher, Abe Toro, Cionel Perez, even Brady Rodgers made contribution — not the most projectible by some standards. The Astros had the most, three taken in Rule 5. Guys finding success elsewhere like Davis, Gustave, Thornton, and Laureano who couldn’t find innings in HOU. They are getting prospect production for peanuts on the dollar; MLB#9 Javier ($10K), MLB#13 Paredes ($10K), MLB#4 Abreu ($40K), MLB#20 Armenteros ($40K), MLB#10 Bielak (R11 $125K) — a pipeline full with Luis H Garcia ($20K), JA Rivera ($10K), Nivaldo Rodriguez ($10K) recently added to Top 30. They don’t need any help from trash cans, or the petty references. It appears to me you have failed to account for the superior development of this organization, which unearthed and produced an MVP in Jose Altuve for $15,000. Since I projected the Astros to win the division in a cakewalk last season, I’ll weigh-in here too for ’20. An apogee? Maybe so, but for a team who rivaled the 1927 Yankees in wRC+/ERA-, what do you expect? Not exactly bold.
I’ve read the hate for the Astros on this site, and the so-called proof of banging trash cans that don’t even correspond to the same pitches. One bang and fastball; next time one bang and it’s a curve. That proves Nothing! Anyone who’s ever actually played baseball knows that signs can be changed by winking, or a hand gesture, not simply by putting a number down between your legs. Where are the opposing 1B’s, Pitchers, Catchers and Umpires during all this? The are standing right next to the dugout — why didn’t anyone stop the damn game and ask what was going on?! Why would the Astros steal signs as 2B baserunners, if they already had a system of banging? FG ran a post on Blue Jays player Devon Travis, Sign Stealer concluding, “now, he’s given me further reason to appreciate him.” Yankees relayed signs by bullpen phone, BOS already fined for the same chicanery. Good for the goose, not the gander? Do you really believe Astros are the only team to decode signs and to use them during on-field reads? Alex Bregman was stealing signs at age 10 as a batboy for the local college coach. By eyesight!
The league took steps to monitor live feeds, so it was impossible to use the camera for these allegations. I’m going to laugh when the actual proof is wanting, and these miserable people’s lives who call for lifetime bans and ridiculous fines are exposed as biased haters of a team so well-positioned that it requires a concerted media effort allowed to run roughshod to take it down. How the Astros treat the media moving forward, I could care less about their rights to an interview. Their intentions were never fair, and an objective reader can see it. These allegations are going to serve to prod a sleeping bear, and then where will your silly speculations be about “maybe” it helped this batter, or that one.
And why exactly would a person who was, you know, on the team call them out on it?
By any chance, are you an Astros fan?
Is the word, “fan” supposed to denote your own air of intellect? It’s probably best we all wait to see what exactly is revealed. But if you think the Astros invented, or were the first to implement sign stealing measures, you’re a small fry. Ray Knight was a Master, came to the Astros in 1982. Phil Garner and others told him, they “don’t want to know what pitch is coming, because if it’s a fastball, I’d swing no matter where the location.” It’s a stupid strategy, and the Astros if you think they are stupid, well, you haven’t been paying attention.
“So Bob, what line of work are you in?”
Stop crying.
The idiotic hubris of a team that trusts its data SO MUCH that it employs ZERO human scouts… It honestly reminds me of those Bay Area paste-eating sociopaths riding around in their Teslas on “auto-pilot” who end up running into the back of a parked fire truck at 50 mph. If you don’t understand the limitations of your toys (or worse, don’t believe in limitations), don’t play with them.
OK, Boomer.
Toaster, Ignorance crosses all boundaries, including age, race sex, and even education. If someone makes a comment you disagree with, criticize the person who made the comment, rather than slurring an entire group. You really don’t understand this?
Boomer is a mindset; not every boomer is an actual person born between ~1955-~1975, just as not every rectangle is a square.
Really, now “OK boomer” is a SLUR? Please.
I’m thinking of a number of Ian Malcolm quotes now.
Doc, that’s a really odd hill to choose to die on, considering whether you like it or not, their strategy has led to 311 wins over the last three seasons and two World Series appearances, including one championship.
Data geeks always want more information…until it comes from a source they don’t want to hear, then they suddenly want less information. It’s revealing.
ETA – process over results. Their wins (especially since they were so blatantly cheating) are not an argument for any particular thing they have done.
Good analysis, as always. I think that at this point, the biggest variable affecting the Astros’ future success is pitcher development in the minors. Their incredibly dominant rotations over the past several years have been void of homegrown talent, with the sporadic exceptions of McCullers and Urquidy. As noted, that’s why their farm system has been depleted and the payroll has exceeded the team’s budget (or what they’re willing to spend). The team, particularly pitching coach Brent Strom, is famous for maximizing value at the major league level. But a dynasty just isn’t sustainable without producing major league pitchers within the minor league system, at least under the current CBA that allows team to generate surplus value by so doing.
I forgot Keuchel. Oops! He was a homegrown ace that contributed greatly from 2015-2018. And had the Astros retained him after 2018, they wouldn’t be in the situation they’re in right now, which was caused by trading for Greinke. That trade emptied the farm and depleted the budget so that they can’t afford a 5th starter for 2020 (nor can they trade for one).
The Astros haven’t had a shot at top pitchers in the drafts, because their pool and budget has been reduced by winning. They tanked and got Correa, Springer, Appel/Aiken Bust, and Bregman. On the homegrown pitching front, you’re way off base. You’re forgetting Corbin Martin, who made it to the bigs third fastest from his class, converted in trade along with Bukauskas for Greinke. If you don’t think Strom developed 19-game winner, Collin McHugh — sure he was a scrap heap guy, what’s the difference? Josh James, 34th round. Framber Valdez. They developed Jandel Gustave, who got TJ and is sticking in SF. Yohan Ramirez was just taken by SEA in R5. The amount of prospects who have been trying to break through, but the Astros are trying to assemble a championship caliber rotation — it’s not easy to crack their team.
You said biggest variable is pitching development in the minors. That is mitigated by Erick Abreu, Drew French, Bill Murphy — the instructors getting it done.
Aside from Abreu, Martes, Javier, Whitley, Ivey, Bielak, Armenteros, Urquidy, Perez this season, HOU will have Paredes, Emanuel, Torres, Garcia, Conine, Dubin, Hansen, Solis and many others who tore up A/A+/AA ball, on their way to Round Rock. The org has led the minors in strikeouts for several yrs in a row. No secret about the high spin, and huge strides in velocity this team teaches. One example for the new prospect rankings is BA#10, Hunter Brown. Anyway, I know you’re saying ML production, but don’t blink, they’re coming.
McHugh was not in the Astros farm system. Every other pitcher you mentioned remains a prospect. None have had extended success in the majors. James and Valdez have been on a constant shuttle from Houston to Fresno/Round Rock. Corbin Martin has pitched 19 innings in the majors and has an ERA of 5.59.
“don’t blink, they’re coming”.
That’s exactly what everybody said this time last year, and absolutely none of them made it. Urquidy was fine, but he certainly wasn’t one of the touted prospects.
It takes a mix, anyway. The premise is flimsy. Several years ago Astros had the most homegrown in the majors. They parlayed much of the farm – yes. But they also took a waiver claim Harris to heights unknown. HOU somehow managed to get Sipp through 3 years when halfway through, he was underwater. Joe Musgrove pitched all of 40 IP for TOR, developed in Houston, traded and made into something. Took James Hoyt, a nobody, took Michael Feliz, sent Trent Thornton over in trade. Never could do much with attitude and what-not with Paulino. Long suffering with Martes, coaching up Cionel Perez. Most of these are fliers by team standards, turned into something productive.
You made a simple assertion they have to develop in-house, and they are. Hopefully, they will leave an opening for the 10 guys vying for SP5. As assembled, the ’17, ’18 and ’19 rotations were pretty locked down by big salary guys, so the prospects could cut their teeth anyway. Why start Whitley’s clock, or Bielak Ivey, when Javier was R5 eligible? Armenteros has toiled for 3 yrs without an opening.. If a pitcher comes along on the market, or my thoughts to trade for SD#3; or #4 (Lucchesi, Lamet), then it keeps pushing these guys’ oppos back. A guy like Kent Emanuel has FINALLY put things together, maybe he gets a shot at spot start or two?
Finally, what the Astros got after almost spending their tiny draft budget after the R6 is phenomenal. Battenfield, Henley, Palmer, Gusto. Position side CJ Stubbs, James Nix. Yeah, player development has never been the problem.
Baseball America
@BaseballAmerica
·
Dec 31, 2019
“No team did a better job of drafting, signing and developing talent in the 2010s than the Astros. ”
Since they tanked for 4 years of the 10, that’s how much better they were/are. You’re going to have to ban them all, like you want to, to beat them.
Through ALL of that, you named ONE starting pitcher developed within the Astros farm system who has done ANYTHING in the big leagues. And hey, if Joe Musgrove is your shining example of the Astros success with producing pitchers, then I think you’ve got a low bar.
A thoroughly loathsome organization to rival even the New England Patriots
Has MLB made Houston install plastic garbage cans in the stadium?
MLB will disappoint us by slapping the Astros wrists. But until then, it is fun to imagine fitting punishments.
$100M fine?
2 or 3 year ban from the rule 4 draft, and no international signing $?
Force them to wear plain white/grey uniforms with a scarlet letter “C” for 5 years?
No home games in 2020? Play the entire season on the road? Maybe a neutral ballpark, ahem, Montreal?
Force Astros pitchers to tell batters what pitches they are about to throw?
Lifetime ban for every player, coach, and employee who was involved – even if they only knew and kept quiet?
Hey MLB… Make it interesting! Make the Astros hurt so badly that nobody else will dare cheat. And then announce a new policy that cheating penalties will keep getting worse until cheating ends forever.
If by “apogee” you mean, “deepest, coldest arse end of space from which their return is in jeopardy”, then sure, Daniel.
Hard to believe the home run projections for Alvarez are that low. Especially considering the fact that the projections for Gleyber Torres are for 44 – 45 HRs. I speak as a Yankees fan.