The Big Questions About the 2020 BBWAA Hall of Fame Ballot
On Monday, the Baseball Writers Association of America released its 2020 Hall of Fame ballot, with 14 holdovers, four of whom received at least 50% last year, joined by a group of 18 newcomers headlined by Derek Jeter. Lately, the writers have been working through a massive backlog of candidates, producing an unprecedented flood of 20 honorees in the past six cycles, including four apiece in each of the past two years. The flood is about to begin receding, however. If not for Jeter, this would rate as the weakest ballot for first-time candidates since 2012, when Bernie Williams was the only first-year candidate who even broke 5%. This year’s two top returnees, Curt Schilling (60.9%) and Larry Walker (54.6%), the latter in his final year of eligibility, are hardly slam dunks for immediate election.
Over the next six weeks, I’ll profile all 32 candidates, either at length or more in brief, examining their cases in light of my Jaffe WAR Score (JAWS) system, which I’ll be using to break down Hall of Fame ballots in an annual tradition that began at Baseball Prospectus (2004-12), then moved to SI.com (2013-18), which gave me an opportunity to go into greater depth on each candidate; last year, I brought the series to FanGraphs. The candidate profiles will begin later this week, after I complete my series covering the Modern Baseball Era Committee ballot. Today I’ll offer a quick look at the biggest questions attached to this year’s election cycle.
First, a review of the basics. To be eligible for election to the Hall of Fame via the BBWAA ballot, a candidate must have played in the majors for parts of 10 years (one game is sufficient to be counted as a year in this context), been out of the majors for five years (the minors or foreign leagues don’t count), and then been nominated by two members of the BBWAA’s six-member screening committee, which is usually a formality but can create some head scratching omissions down the ballot. Since the balloting is titled with respect to induction year, not the year of release, the current slate of players will have last appeared in the majors in 2014. Each new candidate has 10 years of eligibility, a reduction from the 15-year period that was in effect from 1936-2014. The last candidate grandfathered into the full run was Lee Smith, whose eligibility expired in 2017; six current candidates (Walker, Schilling, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Jeff Kent, and Sammy Sosa) had their tenures unilaterally reduced mid-candidacy by the Hall.
To be elected, candidates must receive at least 75% of the ballots cast, and in this case, they don’t round up; 74.9% won’t cut it. Likewise, candidates who don’t receive at least 5% fall off the ballot and can then only be considered for election by the Today’s Game Committee, an entirely separate process — but not until what would have been their 10-year run of eligibility expires.
The voters, each of whom has been an active BBWAA member for 10 years and is no more than 10 years removed from active coverage, can list as many as 10 candidates on their ballots, a number that’s become a point of contention in recent years given the high volume of qualified candidates. In 2015, the Hall tabled a BBWAA proposal to expand to 12 slots (I was on the committee that recommended the change). Last year, the fourth since the Hall purged the rolls of voters more than 10 years removed from coverage, 425 ballots were cast, 124 fewer than in 2015.
Ballots must be postmarked by December 31 (yes, the BBWAA still does this by mail). Voters may reveal their ballots prior to the announcement, as 54% did last year; you can track the reported ballots via Ryan Thibodaux’s Ballot Tracker if you want. Voters can also check a box on the ballot to authorize the publication of their choices via the BBWAA’s website two weeks after the election results are revealed; between that outlet and the Tracker, a record 83% of voters revealed their ballots last year. The results will be announced on MLB Network at 6 pm ET on January 21. Elected players will be inducted alongside anyone elected via the Modern Baseball ballot next July 26 in Cooperstown, New York.
The 32 candidates, with the newcomers in italics:
Bobby Abreu, Josh Beckett, Heath Bell, Barry Bonds, Eric Chávez, Roger Clemens, Adam Dunn, Chone Figgins, Rafael Furcal, Jason Giambi, Todd Helton, Raúl Ibañez, Derek Jeter, Andruw Jones, Jeff Kent, Paul Konerko, Cliff Lee, Carlos Peña, Brad Penny, Andy Pettitte, J.J. Putz, Manny Ramírez, Brian Roberts, Scott Rolen, Curt Schilling, Gary Sheffield, Alfonso Soriano, Sammy Sosa, José Valverde, Omar Vizquel, Billy Wagner, Larry Walker.
In a cool new feature we’ve added, you can see the career statistics of the candidates in sortable tables, one apiece for hitters and pitchers, and more Hall-related features are on the way (note the check box here). Now, on to the big questions…
Will Jeter follow fellow “Core Four” member Mariano Rivera and become the second unanimously-elected candidate?
Last year, Mariano Rivera became the first player ever elected unanimously, thus ending a dumb 82-year-old tradition that began when four voters left Ty Cobb off their ballots in 1936, and 11 did the same regarding Babe Ruth and Honus Wagner. If nobody could agree on them, the logic went, then how could such an honor be bestowed on even Ted Williams (93.4% in 1966), Willie Mays (94.7% in 1979), Hank Aaron (97.8% in 1982), or Greg Maddux (97.2% 2015)? It feels absurd even to type that sentence, but getting hundreds of baseball scribes of all shapes and sizes to agree on anything besides Marriott points was thought to be impossible. Even in an age of increased voter transparency, three fun-hating writers (all of them still unidentified) left Ken Griffey Jr. off their ballots in 2016.
As I wrote in January, Rivera benefited from a perfect storm of voter accountability, transparency, consensus on his status as the best ever within his niche, and universal respect throughout the industry as a player one who lived up to the responsibility of being the last to wear Jackie Robinson’s otherwise-retired number 42. With all due re2pect, Jeter, who along with Rivera helped the Yankees win five World Series and seven pennants, can’t claim best-ever status at shortstop. He was guarded and intentionally bland with the media, and did not have a connection with fans that transcended the pinstripes as Rivera did. That said, with 3,465 hits (sixth all-time), 14 All-Star appearances, and five rings, he’s a no-doubt Hall of Famer, one whose playing career was free of scandal; no, the gift baskets don’t count, and neither do his poor fielding metrics. While his tenure as Marlins CEO is off to a rocky start, it’s difficult to imagine any voter going on record to hold that against him. Perhaps an anonymous voter or three is laying in the weeds, but like Rivera and countless players before him, he should be unanimous. At the end of the day, though, it doesn’t really matter so long as he gets to 75%.
Is this finally the year for Walker?
Like Tim Raines in 2017 and Edgar Martinez last year, Walker is hoping to gain entry in his 10th year, having rallied from meager early support as well as the loss of five years of eligibility. As recently as the 2017 ballot, seven years into his candidacy, he received 21.9%; it was his first time in four years above 20% and just one percentage point below his high-water mark, set in 2012. With back-to-back gains of 12.2% and 20.5%, he’s in much better shape. Not only was he the ballot’s biggest gainer last year, he’s got the fourth-largest two-year gain (32.7%) and fifth-largest three-year gain (39.1%) in modern voting history (since 1966). His clearing 50% is itself noteworthy, in that aside from current candidates, only Gil Hodges reached that threshold and never gained entry.
That’s the good news. The bad news is that Walker needs to replicate last year’s jump in order to get to 75%. Doing that would make for the third-largest leap over the finish line in modern voting history after Barry Larkin (+24.3% in 2012), and Vladimir Guerrero (+21.2% in ’18). However, only one candidate has climbed from below 60% to above 75%: Ralph Kiner, who went from 58.9% in 1974 to 75.4% in ’75, his final year of eligibility. That’s more than a four-point head start on Walker.
So that’s a tall order. He should benefit from the tendency of voters to close ranks around candidates in their final turn — which helped Raines, Martinez, Kiner, and Jim Rice (2009) — as well as others as they approach 75%, such as Mussina, who jumped from 63.5% to 76.7% last year. Less clear is the extent to which turnover within the electorate will help him. Last year, Walker had the ballot’s largest split between published ballots (59.7%) and unpublished ones (27.9%); the latter group is a proxy for the demographic of older voters, who for one reason or another are both less inclined to reveal their ballots and to vote for sabermetric darlings such as Walker. Their ranks are dwindling as more become 10 years removed from active coverage with every year, a trend that would help Walker if incoming voters were more supportive. In both 2017 and ’19, new voters gave Walker a higher share than his overall mark (46.7% versus 21.9%, and then 60 % versus 54.6%), but in ’18 they were well behind (15.4% versus 34.1%). As we’re talking about small samples (totals of 15, 13, and 10 new ballots), it’s not hard to understand the fluctuation, but neither is it something Walker can count on in the same way that Bonds and Clemens can (new voters have supported the pair with 84.2% and 86.8%, respectively, over the past three years).
Speaking of that pair, what do their chances look like, and while we’re at it, what about Schilling?
Well, the short version is that they all finished within one point of 60% last year, their seventh on the ballot. The long version is that the candidacies of Bonds and Clemens are stagnating; they’ve only gained a little over five points in the past two cycles after adding about 17 points within the two cycles before that, aided by the 2016 sunsetting of inactive voters and the 2017 election of Bud Selig, commissioner of the steroid era. While both have done well with newcomers, they haven’t changed many minds lately; via the Tracker, their net increases among returning voters were three (Clemens) and four (Bonds). A post-2019 election survey by ESPN’s Jeff Passan, who asked 60 voters who left both off their ballots whether they might ever change their minds, received just 18 responses, of which 15 said no. Whether or not that group constitutes a representative sample of the electorate is an open question, but suffice it to say the math doesn’t look good given the slow turnover rate of the electorate.
As for Schilling, he probably would have beaten Mussina — on whom he had a one-year head start and as of 2016 a 9.3% lead — to Cooperstown if not for his noxious public persona. The reprehensible things he’s said on social media and the radio, the cozying to white supremacists, and the conspiracy theories have all cost him votes. With a 9.7% gain last year, he’s restored momentum and moved within striking distance, particularly as the top returning vote-getter, but those who make the leap from low-60s to 75% in one fell swoop tend to be early in their candidacies, such as Larkin (who was elected in his third year) or Ryne Sandberg (from 61.1% in year two to 76.2% in year three). Of the four candidates since 1966 who received 55-65% of the vote in year seven, none gained entry in the next year, but two (Andre Dawson and Rich Gossage) were elected two years later and a third (Don Drysdale) three years later. Ordinarily, the move to a 10-year window of eligibility would speed that up, but when you combine Schilling’s capacity for self-sabotage with the current political climate, all bets are off.
How about the newcomers?
Beyond Jeter there is a shortage of viable candidates. Abreu is the best one in terms of JAWS (50.8, 6.0 below the right field standard), a tremendous hitter (.291/.395/.475, 128 OPS+) who had a pair of 30 homer, 30-steal seasons. He’s a stathead favorite but also a player who made just two All-Star appearances and won a single Gold Glove, so I suspect voters will generally greet him with a shrug. Giambi is a former MVP winner who clubbed 440 home runs, and at times was a whole lot of fun, but given his BALCO connections, there’s no reason to think he’ll avoid the fate of other PED-linked candidates. Lee won a Cy Young award and was one of the game’s elite pitchers for about half a decade, but only threw 2,156 and two-thirds major league innings. If Johan Santana and his two Cy Youngs went one and done, there’s little reason to think Lee won’t. Everybody else on the ballot had their moments and deserves their valedictories, but relievers aside, all are at least 20 points below the JAWS standards, and won’t be heading to Cooperstown.
Who stands out further down the ballot?
Vizquel is well short on JAWS (36.2, 18.8 points below the standard), but after gaining 5.8% last year to reach 42.8%, he’s in good shape electorally. Only one modern candidate has polled above 40% in his second year and failed to gain entry via the writers, namely Hodges. Among returnees, it’s a steep drop to Ramirez (22.8%), who ain’t goin’ nowhere with two PED suspensions. The thinning out of the ballot traffic should help somebody or -bodies among the group who received anywhere from 9.9% (Pettitte) to 18.1% (Kent) last year, namely Sheffield, Helton, Rolen, and Wagner — all of whom have pretty decent cases via my analysis, but it’s tough to say which of them will resonate enough to gain real traction.
Do you get to vote yet?
Not yet, but I’m about to begin my 10th year of BBWAA membership, which means that at this time next year, I’ll be receiving my official ballot. As with previous years, after cycling through profiles of all of the candidates, I’ll fill out my virtual ballot to illustrate the hard choices voters must make. And as with last year, we will do a crowd-sourced version of the ballot as well, through which registered FanGraphs users will be able to vote, though I’m afraid the results are non-binding, which is bad news for Bonds, Clemens, and Walker, all of whom were “elected” last year in addition to the quartet tabbed by the BBWAA (Martinez, Mussina, Rivera, and Roy Halladay).
Obviously, there’s a whole lot more to be said about each candidate, the burning questions that surround them, and the ones I’ve dodged. We’ll dig in soon.
Brooklyn-based Jay Jaffe is a senior writer for FanGraphs, the author of The Cooperstown Casebook (Thomas Dunne Books, 2017) and the creator of the JAWS (Jaffe WAR Score) metric for Hall of Fame analysis. He founded the Futility Infielder website (2001), was a columnist for Baseball Prospectus (2005-2012) and a contributing writer for Sports Illustrated (2012-2018). He has been a recurring guest on MLB Network and a member of the BBWAA since 2011, and a Hall of Fame voter since 2021. Follow him on BlueSky @jayjaffe.bsky.social.
This series is always a highlight of the offseason. Looking forward to it!
One of my favorite things when the new list is looking for the guys who really shouldn’t have been on there in the first place. This year, I would like to talk to the person (or people) responsible for getting Carlos Pena on the list, who had some good years in there but I can’t imagine anyone I’ve ever met who thought he’s a hall of famer. The person who got Pena on there…what do they love about baseball? What was their childhood like? Did they think the switch from “Devil Rays” to “Rays” was a good or bad move?
I’d ask the same for JJ Putz but I already know the answer: that’s the work of a Mariners fan who (understandably) has fond memories of that two-year stretch when Putz was the best reliever in baseball. Because of him, the baseball world all collectively went to look up Putz’ 06-07 stats, so that BBWAA writer accomplished what they set out to do.
The folks involved in the ballot construction processes (both this and Era Committee) are the furthest from fanboys; they’re the grizzled vets. They’ve gotten particularly inclusive and self-conscious about the bottom fringes of the ballot after being stung by criticism over leaving off the likes of Javier Vazquez and Chan Ho Park. Some of that criticism came from yours truly, so I’m more to blame for the Putz-ing around than they are.
I’ve always been bewildered by this process. A few years ago Javier Vazquez and his 53 career fWAR was left off the ballot entirely, and this year w get JJ Putz and Heath Bell, with a combined fWAR of 20. Baffling.
To be fair, the WAR standard for relief pitchers is much lower than any other position except maybe DH. It still doesn’t explain Vazquez’s exclusion, though.
PLAKATA!!
bah gawd, that’s Jaffe’s music!!!
Wasn’t there one dude that abstained from voting because he wasn’t going to vote for Rivera but didn’t want to be the guy to mess up his unanimous election?
*
Bill Ballou stated his intention to do just that, but eventually did cast a ballot with Rivera on it.
https://www.telegram.com/news/20190122/bill-ballou-after-further-review-i-voted-for-hall-of-fame—and-mariano-rivera
Based solely on the filtered list of candidate’s pitching stats linked to above, I do not think Adam Dunn will make the cut.
Hee hee……
Chone Figgins? Seriously, two people wrote down the name Chone Figgins? Was one of them named Fone Chiggins?
He won the stolen base championship in 2005
That’s exactly what I was thinking. I mean, I LIKE Figgy, but HoF? Nuh-uh.
“The reprehensible things he’s said on social media and the radio, the cozying to white supremacists, and the conspiracy theories”
None of which have anything to do with his time or performance as a player.
Which is why he’ll probably get in eventually, even if only by committee. But when your fate is decided by journalists and you publicly advocate for the cold-blooded murder of journalists, don’t be shocked when journalists don’t do you any favors!
He’ll never get in if he doesn’t get in now. He’s only going to look worse and worse as the years go on.
Can you imagine next year, when whatever he had to say about the 2020 Election will be fresh in the minds of voters?
Tell me, were Kathy Griffin and Madonna’s comments about Trump calls to arms and public advocacy of violence? Of course not – that’s not a position any reasonable person holds, and the only people taking them seriously are people who are interested in making their political opponents look as unhinged as possible.
I just don’t have a lot of time for pearl clutching about his journalism tweet, even less for trying to act like it was a bone fide call to action, and I think the people that do are making political arguments behind a principled veneer.
Whether you like Schilling or not (for the record I think he’s a giant douche), I don’t think the BBWAA should give itself license to adjudicate political speech as part of the HOF process. Or do we want to set up a precedent where a voter feels justified in, for example, witholding a vote for a player who knelt during the anthem? Nope, “That’s different, because we say so” will be the response.
On the merits Schilling has every bit as or better an argument for the HOF as Mussina, and if he doesn’t get in based on political speech (or, more fundamentally, the sin of being a Trumpist in public) we’re on the road to “The BBHOF, brought to you by the same people who killed the Oscars”. Every aspect of public life doesn’t need to be geared towards making us feel validated about our opinions – this is about baseball, and Schilling has a borderline case that is, in my opinion, pushed over the finish line by postseason performance, but I can also see how a small hall voter would reasonably keep him out.
Some day I may bring my son to the Hall of Fame and I will happily tell him about the bloody sock and one of the most memorable games ever thrown. And also how, for an object lesson on how life is complicated, he turned out afterwards to not be quite the hero he seemed to be at the time. I prefer teaching my son that lesson rather than show him a whitewashed history celebrating only people who’ve been ideologically approved by whomever happens to be the gatekeepers of the moment.
Save the character votes for people who have actually broken baseball’s rules, or have been implicated, to a degree of certainty, in a morally deplorable crime.
Ok boomer
I gather that this is supposed to be a clever blanket dismissal of everything someone has just tried to say, but it also reads like you aren’t making any effort to understand them and just writing them off because of assumptions about their generation and their viewpoint.
Ok, gvanlue. I’ll give you a more detailed response, even though I don’t owe it to you. I live a few miles from Cooperstown. I got engaged there. It is a beautiful part of the world, even if it is far away from mostly anything. The people are great. There are wonderful apple cider donuts there.
Curt Schilling is an islamaphobe, a transphobe, and a homophobe. His actions make life worse for people who did nothing to him. He hates them just because they existed. His actions encouraged violence against those same people and journalists. However good he was as a pitcher does not mean the rest of us are obligated to celebrate him. It’s like arguing “Goebbels had some great camera angles and story construction ideas. The Oscars shouldn’t cut him out of their awards eligibility because of his political views.”
There are people who are LGBTQ+ in Cooperstown. There are Muslims in Cooperstown. He has no place being celebrated in Cooperstown. We can recognize he was really good at pitching and also not be under any obligation to throw him a banquet. And I can assure that none of us want to see him and the Proud Boys there.
Cheers
I wasn’t suggesting you owe anything to me- you don’t. I don’t think that Schilling is any less of a POS than you do, and it would depress me to no end to see him honored in the Hall. That being said, Oddball put some effort into trying to explain what a lot of people think is a valid viewpoint, and you just waved it away dismissively. To see that kind of lack of civility in a comment thread on the interwebs, well- actually, I guess that sounds pretty normal, now that I think of it.
I think he meant it as a joke. It’s the gag line of the month.
This is a reasonable response to the challenge. Thank you for it. I say this as someone who loathes Schilling’s politics but loved him as a pitcher: It’s too soon.
Consider only what he did between the lines and he absolutely belongs. Consider the things he did outside the lines — not just in public after his career ended, but in the clubhouses of the clubs he played for — and you start to see why Mussina is in and he’s not.
I think ultimately the committees will be left to deal with the conundrum.
I agree that he is probably all of those things you’ve called him, and you’re welcome to dislike him and not celebrate him as you will.
But the HOF is a celebration of baseball, not a citizenship award, making it so would be a fast track to irrelevance.
That’s funny, since the actual voting instructions have always stated otherwise. Agree with it or not, as inconsistently as it has been enforced, the character clause is and always has existed.
An fellow upstate NY baseball fan?! Grew up in Sch. County myself and made many a trek to Cooperstown. And you’re dead on about the town. Beautiful, right on a lake, near nothing in particular. A big part of its charm.
Cheers upstate bud! Glimmerglass lake is wonderful. Shoutouts to Fly Creek Orchards and Ommegang Brewery for being the best of Cooperstown. Tis a fine ol’ town.
So edgy. Honestly, I can’t imagine being offended by something so stupid.
Oddball, name me the hall of fame Kathy Griffin is trying to get elected to, and I’ll see if her political speech has affected her chances or not. It lost her jobs, if that’s what you’re driving at?
That’s not the point. The point is that if we know someone is on the opposite end of the spectrum we are all too happy to bend over backwards to cast the worst possible meanings or intentions upon their speech, all the while handing out excuses left and right to our own.
I fail to see why “Schilling literally wants reporters murdered” is a more reasonable interpretation of his speech than merely “dumbass retweets stupid meme”. If you are arguing for the former my point is that you have an agenda and aren’t engaging seriously.
I don’t know why you needed 6 paragraphs to say that the world is complicated, but I will try to keep my respinse brief. Actions have consequences. Kathy Griffin (whose relevance to this debate I fail to recognize), faced significant consequences for her actions. Schilling can decide to take personal responsibility and attempt to make things right with the electorate. He has not, and therefore is facing the consequences of his actions. (Btw, “the sock” was already in the HOF, but Schilling took it back in order to auction it off to pay down his bankruptcy debts, so once again, he only has himself to blame).
So “people we find personally uncouth should be kept out of the hall until they recant before us”. Gotcha. That’s a standard that couldn’t possibly be misapplied.
What would you say to someone who says actions of consequences, Kaepernick doesn’t deserve to be in the NFL until he apologizes? I have no love for Schilling, I just have a deep dislike for bad process and the resulting bad precedent.
Here, here
Yes. We don’t throw parties celebrating white supremacists. Full stop. (This is true even when they do good baseball throws)
Colin Kaepernick is not relevant to the discussion as he is neither a white supremacist nor under consideration for induction into the hall of fame.
Comparing what Schilling said to what Kaepernick said as if there’s any equivalence…you’re a troll. Thanks for removing the need to take anything else you say seriously.
Schilling’s political views are not new, and for a long time the electorate did not care. He was on track to make the HOF until he wore a shirt that explicitly endorsed murdering journalists. That’s not “people we find personally uncouth,” that is a direct threat against the voters and their colleagues. Save your what-a-bouts for another debate, the world is in fact a complicated place, but this issue is very easy to understand.
Curt Schilling advocated for the murder of journalists. Curt Schilling defrauded the state of Rhode Island out of tens of millions of dollars. Take your pick on his “being implicated, to a degree of certainty, in a morally deplorable crime.” He’s well beyond that threshold.
Just because a different era’s voters let Cap Anson into the Hall despite his being a terrible human being doesn’t mean that today’s voters should let Curt Schilling — somebody who should not be allowed to go buy groceries without a dozen people following him with picket signs and protest chants — into the Hall of Fame.
Your argument would be a lot more valid were there not a specific character clause actually included in the voting instructions.
Serious or not, just making those kinds of threats alone shows an utter lack of acceptable character.
Well said OddBall!
The whole “yeah he was a shitty person but who cares because he was good at baseball” is such a dumb and tired argument. Things like this are the reason my give-a-damn about the hall of fame is pretty much non existent these days. Its all just a big, mostly disingenuous, argument.
Well, that…and Harold Baines being in the HoF.
Yeah, but voters are also supposed to consider character, and sportswriters at traditional media outlets are the moral scolds of our age.
I’d care more about the character clause if it weren’t a complete joke at how inconsistently it’s been applied over the decades. When you can use it to denounce Schilling and all the PED connected players yet at the same time let in other known cheaters, drug abusers, and racist jerks without even a minor consideration for the character clause, it loses it’s authenticity in my mind.
Personally, I’d just get rid of the character clause and let them all in save for the Black Sox and Pete Rose who were explicitly banned. However, on the other hand, I wouldn’t vote for Bonds or Clemens until the other otherwise deserving PED users like McGwire are let in, as I don’t think it’s fair that the two of them alone are given a pass.
The Hall of Fame is an effing MUSEUM, not a pristine, sinless, cheater-less haven for the perfect humans who just happened to also be good at baseball.
It’s a museum with a clause for induction that specifically cites character.
They aren’t being given a pass.
McGwire is a fringe HoFer, even with the steroids, because of the damage those chemicals did to his body.
Bonds was already an inner-circle guy when he started using. As was Clemens.
I do not care a whit for how good a player he was. He could have hit like Mike Trout and pitched like Pedro Martinez. Being inducted into the Hall of Fame is an honor, a celebration, of a person — and Curt Schilling is a despicable human being who is not deserving of any honors or celebrations.
Imagine being the Hispanic worker at Cooperstown tasked with bringing a glass of water to Schilling while he’s at the podium giving his speech. Knowing that there’s a man in front of you who hates you, who feels that you’re less than human, who quite literally would laugh if you were murdered — and then seeing him being given the opportunity to speak to a crowd and being celebrated. Imagine being the gay valet tasked with parking Curt Schilling’s car, knowing that he quite literally wishes death upon you, and seeing people politely clapping at what he has to say.
I’m sorry; no. Curt Schilling doesn’t deserve the opportunity to walk outside his front door without being heckled and booed and shouted down for the rest of his life. He certainly doesn’t deserve an award show in his honor.
“Imagine being the Hispanic worker… Knowing that there’s a man in front of you who hates you, who feels that you’re less than human, who quite literally would laugh if you were murdered… Imagine being the gay valet tasked with parking Curt Schilling’s car, knowing that he quite literally wishes death upon you”
Dude, seriously??
Do you believe differently of Curt Schilling? Does literally anything he’s ever done give you any reason to believe differently of him?
Hyperbole much?
Schilling will never get my (hypothetical) vote. When we debate Bonds and Clemens, it’s a baseball debate. We are debating how we want to memorialize an entire era of baseball.
When we debate Schilling, we are debating his noxious politics. We are being dragged into the mud of far right conspiracies and racism. It’s not a baseball debate and it’s not fun or productive.
It’s called the “character clause.” Generally, it’s only used to argue against including the PED connected players (while still hypocritically accepting known cheaters like Gaylord Perry or drug abusers), but if anyone has an argument to have it used against him for entirely off-field matters, it’s Schilling.
I agree, this is purely a case of the holier than thou voters trying to show him up. Remember, there is no more discussion today, you either agree with me or you are completely evil, no matter which side you support/oppose.
Schilling’s issue isn’t that he “disagrees with” the reporters, politically.
It’s that he’s an asshole.
I’d still vote for him, but let’s not pretend that the conversation about Schilling’s behaviour is rooted in his belonging to a different political party.
It’s that he’s an asshole.
I’d vote for Schilling if there were a guarantee he could not give a speech there during induction weekend.
And, off we go to the races. Should be fun. The unanimous vote thing was outmoded, but are we really going to be comfortable with an immediate shift to “yeah, not the greatest, but enough to make it in, and certainly a top-ten on this ballot”?
Schilling, Bonds, Clemens, Walker, Rolen, Helton, Sheffield, Manny, Jeter, Jones, Sosa, Kent, Wagner
This may be the last year with more than 10 deserving candidates on the ballot.
If Walker, Abreu, Rolen Kent and Wagner don’t get inducted but Jeter gets in unanimously I’m done
Interesting stance considering every single one of the players you listed produced less WAR than Jeter. Jeter was actually more than 3x as valuable as Wagner. Walker and maybe Rolen should get in, too, but being done because of Billy Wagner is sooooo weird.
Fair point.
Saw somewhere on Twitter that if Wagner started playing again and threw 186 innings w/ a 5.55 ERA and zero strikeouts, he’d match Hoffman’s ERA and IP with more Ks. Obviously ERA and IP should not be the main criteria for HoF entry with so much other info available, but thought it was interesting nonetheless. Wagner was an incredible reliever over his career.
I’m not sure if Wagner could do that at his age. I mean, he’d at least strike out Chris Davis.
Third base is criminally unappreciated. Been carrying a torch for Nettles awhile now…Rolen is an even more deserving candidate.
Actually I just checked this: Larry Walker had 1.7 less WAR in 5000+ less at bats
I’m not a huge Jeter fan and I definitely think Walker and Rolen deserve to get in, but Jeter had a better career than any of those four.
Yea those 3 all deserve induction. I don’t think Jeter is undeserving, I’d just be surprised if he got 100% while Rolen, Walker and Kent don’t get in at all
I’d be shocked if Jeter gets 100% of the vote. The baseball writers (i.e. the voters) have always been negative about Jeter.
Haha, I get and appreciate the sarcasm even if the downvoters don’t
One of the oddities Walker’s public/private vote split is that it didn’t use to be that way. As recently as 2017, there was only a 1.2 percentage point gap between the two groups. And back in 2015, he got twice as much support from the non-public group as he did from the public group. Weird.
The sudden backbone discovered by journalists about PEDs – one that didn’t exist when these PED users were playing the game, strangely enough – is pathetic. Lobby for the removal of Bud Selig or stop virtue-signalling.
If you don’t think people were talking about how steroid use was detrimental to the game twenty years ago, then you weren’t paying attention 20 years ago.
It certainly took awhile for concerns to take hold. And so many of the cheerleaders waving Pom-poms about all the dingers certainly changed their tune when the prevailing winds changed in the early 2000’s. Boswell and Nightengale reported on PEDs back in the 80’s and early 90’s about PED. So yeah, it did take them awhile to catch onto it…or more accurately, to want to catch onto it. The pearl-clutching I see now is nothing more than their overreaction to PEDs due to their guilt at not investigating them further when they should have.
I simply do not understand the fascination with Omar Vizquel. Sure, he played for a looong time, but he was subpar offensively in 22 out of 24 years. His OPS+ is 82 and his OPS was below .700.
Sure, I understand defense is important (Ozzie Smith argument), but Omar doesn’t hold a candle to Ozzie offensively (87 OPS+) or defensively.
I have the same problem with Eli Manning. Guy has two superbowls, but was an average QB. I just don’t think average (but durable) players should be in.
Agree on Vizquel.
Don’t think the MLB/NFL durability comparison is a good one. its a lot harder to be durable in the NFL compared to MLB. Major injuries in football are basically guaranteed at some point. Eli Manning’s durability is nothing short of incredible. Not sure how that should be quantified, but a team having an average-ish QB at the helm for 15 years straight seems like it would be tremendously valuable.
I think the best argument for Omar Vizquel comes down to this:
Omar was one of the best defensive players at one of the most important defense positions and he did it for a long time. The HOF should celebrate excellence regardless of total value so his offense is completely irrelevant. After all, If we are okay with voting for relievers (whose total WAR value is low), we are saying total value doesn’t matter, and we are okay with excellence in only 1 area.
Of course if you don’t believe Omar was truly the best defensive shortstop of his era then there really is no argument.
If we’re voting entirely based on defensive excellence (which I think still needs to be combined with some respectable offensive numbers to matter), then just being the best of his era isn’t good enough. He needs to be one of the best (if not THE best) of all-time as Ozzie Smith was. Vizquel is not in that same tier.
Omar was top 5 in AL DWAR from 1991-1993. DWAR ranks Ripken better during that period. His only other placement in the top 5 was in 2007. 2 DWAR in 4 separate years is great, but when you add that he was subpar offensively, his candidacy falls way short to me.
If anyone thinks Omar is a HOFer, does that mean Andrelton Simmons is in their HOF too? Andrelton averaged 4 DWAR over a 5 year period, while Omar’s max average was less than 2.5.
Then we should vote for DH’s..How about 1 dimensional slugging 1B?
We do vote for the 2 above, but, the standard has become they need to be elite for a long time. Vizquel was never that elite. Defense was more “above average” than “best ever”.
While Cliff Lee will almost certainly never make it into the hall of fame, he’s certainly got a place in my personal hall of fame. What an incredible, and extremely enjoyable to watch, six year peak.
Quick worker, too. Nothing like a well-pitched game that ends under 3 hours.
3 hours? Pfft, Maddux would like to have talk with you about 80 pitch complete games in 2 hours.
Ahh,the new BBWAA Hall of Fame ballot, where we can see the list of new names and think “Yeah, I remember him. he was… mediocre.”
Still, that spike of the ball in left field by Raul Ibanez belongs in the Hall, even if Raul doesn’t.
Will be fascinating to see ballots drop from 8-10 per ballot to 4-5.
I’m in with jeter, Rolen, Walker, Schilling and vizquel. I could be convinced on Wagner and Kent and Helton but I’m not sure I can get there – maybe on Kent
Vizquel? Ugh. How do you include a guy with 45 WAR and exclude a guy with 55 (Kent)?
I mean, Kent had MVP votes in 14 different years. Omar is a 3-time all-star. If we rarely thought he was an all-star, how can he be a HOFer?
Bonus points to Kent for giving me a chuckle that time he claimed he broke his wrist falling out of the back of his truck when he was washing it
Abreu was a good/not great player by the time he was on high-profile teams, but he was an absolute star for the Phillies (whether their fans thought so or not). Not many players can hit .300 every year with 75 extra base hits, 100 walks, and 30 steals. It’s true he only made two All-Star teams, but he would have been a good choice almost every year from 1997-2006.
Abreu also was a great baserunner, had a very strong arm, and was a good defender in his 20s. Maybe he should have been moved to left field in his 30s but there’s no way he was Greg Luzinski-level bad, which is what Fangraphs’ numbers suggest. I don’t know if he’s a Hall of Famer but at a minimum, he should get enough votes to stay on the ballot.
I don’t have any confidence in the defensive numbers from Abreu’s era. However, by the time he was on the Yankees, Abreu was a catastrophically bad right fielder. He was Gary Sheffield bad.
I was just revisiting stats, and realized that for all the criticism Jeter received for his defense throughout his career, Fangraphs has him at -19.8 for his career, which… isn’t terrible? Like, Jose Altuve is currently at -20.9 for his career. GIancarlo Stanton is at -19.7. And I don’t really hear many people writing constant articles about how terrible their defensive work is all the time.
Yeah, it’s worth noting that the entire reason for positional adjustments is that a bad SS is still a useful defensive player.
Positional adjustments make Miguel Cabrera look like a good third baseman relative to his 1B skills.
Jeter won 5 Gold Gloves while typically being one of the very worst fielding regular shortstops in MLB. That’s what generated so much ink, the huge gap between reputation and performance.