We’ve Reached Peak Position Players Pitching

On Monday, Rays’ infielder Michael Brosseau took the mound. On Sunday, it was Brewers infielder Hernán Pérez, and before him, Diamondbacks catcher Alex Avila on Saturday, and Reds infielder Jose Peraza on Friday. On Thursday, which now seems so long ago — seriously, do you remember what you had for dinner that night? — it was Yankees first baseman Mike Ford. If you think that home run and strikeout rates have gotten out of hand, consider the tally of position players pitching.

While teams are producing homers at a per-game rate 12% higher than the previous record (set in 2017), and while per-game strikeout rates are on the rise for the 14th straight season (up about 3% relative to last year), the single-season record for position player outings (65, set just last year, and no, that count doesn’t include Shohei Ohtani) fell earlier this month. Already, position players have taken the hill a total of 78 times this season; prorated to a full schedule, that’s 101 outings, a 55% increase on last year. And if things were to continue at the blistering pace we’ve seen since the All-Star break — 33 appearances in 39 days — the number would soar higher than the drive the Indians’ Carlos Santana hit off Ford:

Whew. Traditionally, a position player pitching appearance has been a break-glass-in-case-of-emergency desperation move (generally in extra innings) or a lighthearted farce that draws attention away from an otherwise unpleasant blowout. Through some combination of higher-scoring games, higher per-game totals of relievers, concerns about reliever workloads, and the reduced stigma of this particular maneuver, the rate of such appearances has accelerated. Like the barrage of homers and strikeouts, whether or not the higher frequency takes the fun out of it is rather subjective. To these eyes, the novelty is in the absurdity, like imagining a dog penning this article, and the bordering-on-routine nature of this year’s appearances has dimmed some of the luster. Even so, it’s an interesting enough subject to dwell upon for a few minutes.

For starters, here’s the progression for the past decade:

I’ve excluded Ohtani (10 starts last year), outfielder-turned pitcher Jason Lane (three appearances in 2014, seven years after his last major league stint), and catcher/utilityman-turned-pitcher Christian Bethancourt (four appearances in 2017, when he was primarily pitching) from those totals and all others for the rest of this piece. The tactic has particularly gained traction over the past half-decade, though some of that owes to greater reliever usage in general. In 2013, position player outings accounted for 0.1% of all reliever appearances. The rate ranged from 0.14% to 0.18% from 2014-16, hit 0.2% in ’17, then doubled to 0.4% in ’18, and is up to 0.64% this year — one for every 157 relief appearances.

You Aren't a FanGraphs Member
It looks like you aren't yet a FanGraphs Member (or aren't logged in). We aren't mad, just disappointed.
We get it. You want to read this article. But before we let you get back to it, we'd like to point out a few of the good reasons why you should become a Member.
1. Ad Free viewing! We won't bug you with this ad, or any other.
2. Unlimited articles! Non-Members only get to read 10 free articles a month. Members never get cut off.
3. Dark mode and Classic mode!
4. Custom player page dashboards! Choose the player cards you want, in the order you want them.
5. One-click data exports! Export our projections and leaderboards for your personal projects.
6. Remove the photos on the home page! (Honestly, this doesn't sound so great to us, but some people wanted it, and we like to give our Members what they want.)
7. Even more Steamer projections! We have handedness, percentile, and context neutral projections available for Members only.
8. Get FanGraphs Walk-Off, a customized year end review! Find out exactly how you used FanGraphs this year, and how that compares to other Members. Don't be a victim of FOMO.
9. A weekly mailbag column, exclusively for Members.
10. Help support FanGraphs and our entire staff! Our Members provide us with critical resources to improve the site and deliver new features!
We hope you'll consider a Membership today, for yourself or as a gift! And we realize this has been an awfully long sales pitch, so we've also removed all the other ads in this article. We didn't want to overdo it.

This season, every team except for the Mets has gotten in on the act, with the Orioles (seven times, from four different players), Diamondbacks (six times, from three players — all of them catchers), and Astros (five times, four of them by the since-traded Tyler White) leading the way. Baltimore’s count is the highest for a single season thus far, though the Orioles would currently share that distinction if you include the aforementioned Bethancourt appearances in the 2017 Padres’ total; as he made just one appearance in the field (but five as a pinch-hitter), I’m waving him off, but reasonable minds can disagree. The Cubs have the highest total of such appearances since the start of 2010 (19), followed by the Twins (16), Rangers and Astros (15 apiece), White Sox (14), and the Mariners and Padres (13 apiece, the latter sans Bethancourt’s 2017).

Where last year’s occurrences of position players pitching were uneven across the months, this year’s distribution had been more uniform, up until August:

Position Players Pitching by Month, 2018 vs. 2019
Month 2018 2019
March/April 8 14
May 4 15
June 10 15
July 24 17
August 15 17*
Sept/Oct 4 N/A
SOURCE: Baseball-Reference
* = through August 19

Again, it’s worth remembering that this month’s total is incomplete. So far, there have only been four days (August 1, 4, 5, and 14) without a single position player pitching, and at the very least, the monthly record set last July appears to be in jeopardy. The streak of five straight days with a position player pitching is a record, surpassing long-forgotten four-day streaks from [squints at notes] July 22-25 and August 10-13. A look back at last September’s total should remind us that expanded rosters can turn these outings back into rarities; there were also four in September 2017, none in ’16, and three in ’15, including Ichiro Suzuki’s inning on October 4, the final day of the season and about as glorious an occurrence as we’ve had in this realm.

As you’d expect from this mounting total, we’ve seen more position players pitch multiple times than ever, further testifying to this tactic’s acceptance. Eighteen players have done it at least twice, surpassing last year’s total of 13, the six from 2017, and the four apiece annually from ’14 to ’16 (again, the aforementioned exclusions apply here). White, the Angels’ Jared Walsh — a legitimate attempt to convert a position player to a two-way player, as he also has 11 games at first base — and the Orioles’ Stevie Wilkerson all have four appearances apiece, giving them a shot at Chris Gimenez’s 2017 single-season record of six. Perez, the Dodgers’ Russell Martin, and the Mariners’ Tom Murphy each have three. With three outings last year and one in 2017, Perez shares the active lead (seven, totaling 7.1 innings) with Andrew Romine, who alas has spent the entire season with the Phillies’ Triple-A Lehigh Valley affiliate; while he’s gotten one outing under his belt there, the big league club’s bullpen apparently isn’t decimated enough to call him up.

The vast majority of these appearances have come in blowouts; by my count, 45 of the 78 have occurred in games decided by at least 10 runs, sometimes with the, uh, “help” of the position player in question. Teams are loosening their definitions of what constitutes a blowout, however, and it’s no longer that uncommon for a position player to pitch the eighth or ninth inning while his team is down five or six runs, as Brosseau and Avila did during this current run. A look at the average leverage index (aLI) is telling. Via the Baseball-Reference Play Index, 55 of this year’s appearances have come with an aLI of .000 — too small to show up. For another 21, the aLI has ranged from .002 to .04, barely noticeable.

For the other two, which came in extra-inning games, the aLI was well above 1.0. On July 25, in a six-hour and 19-minute game between the Orioles and Angels in Anaheim, the visiting O’s scored two runs in the top of the 16h inning. Having already burned through nine pitchers, rookie manager Brandon Hyde called upon Wilkerson, a 26-year-old rookie outfielder/infielder who had already pitched twice this season — but didn’t pitch in college and threw just one inning in high school — to protect the lead (aLI: 1.29). Despite not topping 56 mph with any of his 12 offerings (all classified as fastballs by Pitch Info), he retired Brian Goodwin, Kole Calhoun, and Albert Pujols in order, thus becoming the first position player to record a save since the stat became official in 1969 (the Play Index offers many examples of players who converted to or from pitching, or simply spotted at one point, and received retroactive credit for saving games, including Hall of Famers Ty Cobb, George Sisler, and Red Sox-era Babe Ruth).

The other high-leverage appearance belongs to Phillies outfielder Roman Quinn, who came in for the top of the 14th inning of a tied game (aLI: 2.832) against the White Sox on August 2. He put two runners on in the 14th, but pitcher Vince Velazquez, who was playing left field, threw out Jose Abreu (whom he had walked) at the plate. Quinn retired the first two batters of the 15th, but then allowed a single and a walk, and Abreu got his revenge by driving home Leury García with what proved to be the winning run. It was the eighth time in the past decade that a position player took the loss, all in extra-inning games; Garcia himself had done so for the White Sox on April 16, 2014, and both the Diamondbacks’ Jeff Mathis and the Dodgers’ Enrique Hernandez took the L last year.

A handful of other appearances stick out for one reason or another. On March 30, in a game that saw the Dodgers beat the Diamondbacks 18-5, Arizona catcher John Ryan Murphy became just the third position player to allow seven runs in a game since 1961; he did so by pitching both the seventh and eighth innings. Two other position players have allowed six runs apiece in a list that’s more than doubled in size over the past two seasons:

Most Runs Allowed by a Position Player Pitching Since 1961
Player Date Tm Opp Rslt IP H R BB SO
Manny Castillo 6/26/83 Mariners Blue Jays L 7-19 2.2 8 7 3 2
Larry Biittner 7/4/77 Cubs Expos L 3-19 1.1 5 6 1 3
Paul Janish 7/6/09 Reds Phillies L 1-22 1.0 4 6 2 1
José Reyes 7/31/18 Mets Nationals L 4-25 1.0 5 6 2 0
John Ryan Murphy 3/30/19 D’backs Dodgers L 5-18 2.0 8 7 3 0
Tyler White 6/26/19 Astros Pirates L 2-14 0.2 4 6 4 0
Roman Quinn 8/16/18 (1) Phillies Mets L 4-24 1.2 6 7 2 0
SOURCE: Baseball-Reference

In the same game in which Murphy was pounded, Martin — who by his own recollection hadn’t pitched in “probably close to 20 years” — threw a 1-2-3 ninth on just 10 pitches to finish the game, thereby becoming the first position player to close out a win since Sept. 23, 1963, when Senators outfielder Willie Smith (who would later convert to the mound) did so.

Martin has since made two more appearances, both scoreless. He pitched the eighth with the Dodgers on the short end of an 8-2 game against the Diamondbacks on June 26, and closed out a 15-1 lead against the Marlins on August 13, that while lefty reliever Adam Kolarek played first base because the Dodgers were — wait for it — out of position players.

That game — just the third of the season for both teams — was one of six in which two position players pitched. The Angels (Walsh) and Mariners (Murphy) each used a player on June 2, and Martin’s appearance against the Marlins was countered by Bryan Holaday for the Fish. Meanwhile, the Astros used both White and Max Stassi on June 26 against the Pirates, the Pirates used José Osuna and Jacob Stallings against the Cardinals on July 24, and the Nationals used Gerardo Parra and Brian Dozieragainst the Diamondbacks on August 3.

Parra failed to retire any of the five batters he faced that night, walking four, allowing just one hit (a single by Avila) and throwing just eight strikes from among his 25 pitches before being relieved by Dozier, who allowed all three runners he inherited to score. Leaving aside a couple outings by two-way Brewers’ outfielder/pitcher Brooks Kieschnick in 2004, Parra became the first position player to fail to retire a batter since the Tigers’ Shane Halter on October 1, 2000, though to be fair, Halter’s appearance came as part of his playing all nine positions in a single game. You have to dial back to August 16, 1980 to find a position player — the Blue Jays’ Bob Bailor, who failed to retire any of the three Royals he faced — so far over his head that he couldn’t get anybody out before getting the hook.

On July 1, the Cubs’ Daniel Descalso pitched the seventh inning in a game in which his team trailed 13-5. After he gave up two runs in his inning of work, manager Joe Maddon sent an actual-ass pitcher back to the hill in the form of Craig Kimbrel, who was making just his second appearance for the Cubs; he came in and gave up three more runs. Attentive students of the genre will note that Descalso went into the history books last July 11 by not only making the earliest entry to a game by a position player since 1979 (the fourth inning) but by making the longest such appearances (2.2 innings) since 1988. He’s now pitched six times for three teams (the Cardinals are the other), with 6.2 innings under his belt.

Besides Descalso and Murphy, two other players have entered in the seventh, and both threw two innings, namely Osuna and the Indians’ Mike Freeman, who faced off against the Orioles on June 29. Two other players also pitched two innings, Wilkerson on July 20 against the Red Sox, and Ford on August 15 against the Indians. Five other players have gotten either four or five outs: Walsh, Quinn, Kyle Farmer, Wilkerson and Chris Owings.

As for stuff, Osuna and Walsh both topped 90 mph with their fastballs, according to Pitch Info, as did the Pirates’ JB Shuck, a longtime replacement level outfielder who made his first major league appearance on April 2, and has since made 11 appearances for the team’s Triple-A Indianapolis affiliate in hopes of becoming a bona fide two-way player; he has 19 strikeouts (but 12 walks) in 14 innings, with a 4.50 ERA and 6.47 FIP. The Dodgers’ Jedd Gyorko (his lone appearance this year came when he was still with the Cardinals) owns the highest swinging strike rate — 50% of his four pitches in his one-third of an inning on April 26 — though he did face just one batter.

Does the increased frequency of position player appearances mean an uptick in quality? Umm, no, not if the decade-long ERA and FIP trends are any indication:

To be fair, this year’s crop’s work (8.44 ERA, 8.36 FIP, and “only” 3.0 HR/9) has been better than last year’s (11.71 ERA, 9.51 FIP, 3.9 HR/9), but they’re about on par with 2017 (8.69 ERA, 8.64 FIP, 3.1 HR/9) except when it comes to strikeout rate; this year’s 6.94% edges last year’s 6.9% and is double 2017’s 3.5%, but the sample sizes from that year and those previous are significantly smaller. I think it’s fair to say that the volume and the development of quasi-specialists hasn’t done a whole lot to improve the quality here.

With regards to the individual outings, we’ve established that rarely is anything at stake when a position player pitches, but from a roster management standpoint, these outings do serve a purpose. In a blowout, why burn an actual, useful pitcher who may be needed tomorrow, and perhaps the next day as well? Particularly given the way teams churn through multiple relievers with options for that last bullpen spot, having a position player finish a lopsided game could spare that 12th or 13th pitcher his third tour of duty in Scranton/Wilkes-Barre.

Regardless of where one stands on the matter, the tactic of putting position players on mop-and-bucket detail has likely reached its peak (or nadir). Next year’s slate of rule changes, which will include a three-batter minimum for each pitcher who doesn’t finish a half-inning, also prevents teams from calling upon a position player to pitch when the margin is less than eight runs in either direction (and could quash legitimate experiments like the Angels are trying with Walsh); I don’t have an exact count of how many appearances that would affect due to the Play Index’s limitations, but going by the aforementioned leverage index breakdowns, it might cut out about a quarter of what we’ve seen. All of which is to say that if this is your jam, enjoy it while you can, and if it ain’t, fret not, because some amount of order will soon be restored.





Brooklyn-based Jay Jaffe is a senior writer for FanGraphs, the author of The Cooperstown Casebook (Thomas Dunne Books, 2017) and the creator of the JAWS (Jaffe WAR Score) metric for Hall of Fame analysis. He founded the Futility Infielder website (2001), was a columnist for Baseball Prospectus (2005-2012) and a contributing writer for Sports Illustrated (2012-2018). He has been a recurring guest on MLB Network and a member of the BBWAA since 2011, and a Hall of Fame voter since 2021. Follow him on BlueSky @jayjaffe.bsky.social.

66 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
sadtromboneMember since 2020
6 years ago

I can’t wait for a team to forfeit a game because the pitcher blows out their arm in extras, and is unable to call a position player to take his place. If the goal is to get teams to stop grinding their bullpens into dust, I am afraid MLB will be disappointed.

sandwiches4everMember since 2019
6 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Extra innings are exempted from the rule.

emh1969
6 years ago

Meanwhile, we had Aaron Boone complaining about being “forced” to use Mike Ford as a pitcher and suggesting that baseball consider a mercy rule.

Note to Aaron: No one forced you to begin that game with an opener. And no one forced you to bring Mike Ford into the game. If you prefer to preserve your better relievers for higher leverage situations, that’s certainly a very defensible strategy. But you should at least be honest that it’s your choice to do so.

London Yank
6 years ago
Reply to  emh1969

I don’t understand your gripe with Boone. He is just saying he would prefer the option of conceding a game when it becomes readily apparent that his previous choices did not work out.

emh1969
6 years ago
Reply to  London Yank

1) That’s not at all what he said. He wants a rule from baseball that would be applied automatically.

2) As I already said, he’s not being honest about what happened. He was not forced to use Mike Ford. He could have very easily used one of his better relievers. But he wanted to preserve them for later in the series. Again, that’s fine. But then you have to deal with the consequences of such a decision. Also, it was his choice to use an opener. That will often force a manager to use a variety of relievers throughout the game and limit the options in the later innings. That’s a choice and it may have consequences later on.

BTW, do you also believe that basketball, football, and other sports should implement mercy rules when “previous choices don’t work out”?

London Yank
6 years ago
Reply to  emh1969

I don’t think Boone really specified how he imagined the rule would be implemented.

I don’t think Boone was being dishonest at all. I Boone just assumed everyone understood the context of him speaking as manager. It kind of goes without saying that all of those decisions were his, since he is the manager.

I don’t want a mercy rule at all in baseball. Boone does. He understandably doesn’t want to get a position player hurt doing something he is not accustomed to in meaningless innings. He also does not want reduce his chances of winning the next game by wasting a real pitcher for meaningless innings. He was pretty forthright about this.

emh1969
6 years ago
Reply to  London Yank

“It’s not fun to have to put in a position player in that kind of situation,”

That’s Boone’s exact quote. Maybe I’m being pedantic and I realize he’s speaking extemporaneously, but he didn’t “have to put in a position player”. That was a choice of his. To try to frame it otherwise, isn’t honest.

And if he’s truly concerned with player safety, then he doesn’t have to do it. He can simply put in a regular relief pitcher. He can’t have it both ways…on the one hand, say that he’s concerned about player safety, and on the other hand. do something that he believes puts players at risk. He can simply make a different choice.

emh1969
6 years ago
Reply to  emh1969

BTW, the more I think about this, the more I dislike Boone, Now, I don’t happen to agree that this puts position players at injury risk. From what I’ve read, no position player had ever been hurt from pitching in a game. But that IS Boone’s contention. And what he’s saying is that he’s willing to put winning future games above the safety of his players. That’s quite frankly a crappy thing to do.

C Beisbol
6 years ago
Reply to  emh1969

Jose Canseco, no?

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-07-10-sp-11723-story.html

Not sure how direct the correlation can be, but…

carterMember since 2020
6 years ago
Reply to  emh1969

Thing that bothers me, is it is certainly “fun.” Sure, the novelty has worn off a bit, but it certainly is entertaining.

mikejuntMember
6 years ago
Reply to  emh1969

Pitching is a fundamentally unhealthy activity and any time someone engages in it there’s the chance they suffer serious injury

stareagleMember since 2018
6 years ago
Reply to  emh1969

Your point loses a lot of impact when you preach without knowing that Jose Canseco famously blew out his elbow while pitching.

aweb
6 years ago
Reply to  stareagle

I knew that because I remember it happening, but it should be noted for us older fogies here that Canseco blew out his elbow pitching 26 years ago, he came back to play another 8 years after that, and became differently (?) famous for a variety of things post-MLB career. Nolan Ryan retired in 1993, having pitched for 26 seasons (27 years) before that. It’s a long time ago, and leaving the realm of “common knowledge” for younger baseball fans.

London Yank
6 years ago
Reply to  emh1969

You should like Boone. Phil Cuzzi gave the Indians a major assist on Sunday to spite Boone:

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/zoneTrack.php?month=8&day=18&year=2019&game=gid_2019_08_18_clemlb_nyamlb_1%2F&prevGame=gid_2018_10_05_colmlb_milmlb_1%2F&prevDate=0818

Look at all those extra strikes the Indians were given!

sadtromboneMember since 2020
6 years ago

I still think that the ideal two-way player is a guy who has topped out as a Quad-A guy as a hitter and who pitched in college…so if guys like Bobby Dalbec backslide at the plate, they’re the sorts of guys I would want to try out. The guy who’s not good enough to make it as either a pitcher or hitter, but might be good enough to make it as a backup to both.

I’m also still waiting for an NL team to scoop up Matt Davidson and AJ Reed and do a righty-lefty tag team, who switch 1B-P based on handedness of the batter. Davidson and Reed would also be pretty good batters for pitchers, although you’d give a lot of that back with the below-average production at 1B.

London Yank
6 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I’m not sure I follow. Why would a team want to roster a player who is not good enough to pitch or hit? Where do they create value?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
6 years ago
Reply to  London Yank

Well, imagine if Tyler White could also pitch like Shawn Armstrong, or if Shawn Armstrong. These are guys who are bubble guys who would need to be able to backup multiple positions to be rosterable. Kind of like how Hernan Perez or Yangervis stuck around for so long…they’re utility players. It’s just that pitching would be part of the utility.

I don’t know whether it would work, but I want to see a team give it a try.

London Yank
6 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

How many innings and what leverage situations do you envision such a player being pitched in? I can’t see such a player ever being good enough to be brought into anything but the lowest leverage innings. I’m not sure there is any real value there.

What about a major league quality arm who can’t really hit, but is a defensive whiz at multiple positions? Defense can be learned by most reasonably good athletes. …and fwiw, back in the day Yankees players sometimes talked about Mariano Rivera being the best defensive outfielder on the team

JupiterBrandoMember since 2020
6 years ago
Reply to  London Yank

Vince Velazquez’s performance a few weeks ago shows there is some value lingering in using pitchers as defensive replacements. As a Mets fan it’s still bizarre to me that the two fastest players on the team are Amed Rosario and Steven Matz.

carterMember since 2020
6 years ago
Reply to  JupiterBrando

A long time ago Andrew Cashner was apparently the fastest runner on the Padres

sadtromboneMember since 2020
6 years ago
Reply to  London Yank

Yeah, but that player couldn’t hit at all, so you wouldn’t get the value of having a decent hitter at the bottom of the order, and you would be risking the arm at any position other than first base. If you have Shawn Armstrong hanging out in left field for a while that’s fine, but I certainly wouldn’t want to risk Mariano Rivera.

I can imagine the 1B/P hybrid would be a pretty standard middle-innings reliever. Think Jesse Chavez (this year’s version, not last year’s).

London Yank
6 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

The year Mariano missed was because he got hurt playing outfield during batting practice (which he loved to do throughout his career).

mikejuntMember
6 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Pitchers lower the offensive output of NL teams by almost 7%! (look at team-level wRC+ for the NL, all players and then Nonpitchers, as wRC+ is indexed to the league average position player). This number is consistent across time.

The single most valuable thing an NL team could figure out a way to do would be to find a way to get even in the vicinity of league-average production from the 9th spot in the lineup on a consistent basis.

The marginal value of a pitcher who could also fill in defensively exists, but it’s minor. The advantage of having an AL lineup when your opponent has an NL one is enormous.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
6 years ago
Reply to  mikejunt

Right, this is the biggest thing. If you had a guy who is an okay-ish reliever–doesn’t have to be a world-beater–who can put up a 70 or 80 wRC+ (Tyler White this year) that’s an unbelievable advantage. If you can get them up to the 95ish range (like ZiPs thinks Tyler White can do) then it’s even better.

I want a list of lumbering slugger types who also pitched in college or high school and are locked into a corner slot, just so I can see if I can convert them to this hybrid if they fall short. I will do this for science, and also because it could be fun.

So if Bobby Dalbec or Will Craig or Luken Baker or Sheldon Neuse fail to hit enough to play at a regular everyday spot, but almost get there, I hope someone will take a chance on turning them into a reliever.

Dave TMember since 2025
6 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

It can be tactically useful in certain situations such as extra innings or a game where the starter was pulled very early, but “unbelievable advantage” strikes me as really overstated. A 70 or 80 wRC+ hitter is probably the last PH off the bench before the backup catcher – maybe on par with a poor-hitting utility infielder.

JupiterBrandoMember since 2020
6 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I used to play card games a lot when I was younger — Yu-Gi-Oh, Magic, stuff like that. I’d come up with all of these two, three, even four card comes that, when they all came together, would kill a creature, do a ton of damage, whatever. But then I realized instead of trying too hard and getting gimmicky, I could just play one card that’s actually good. That’s when I started winning tournaments.

At a certain point, the desire to innovate becomes an impediment and you start to hurt only yourself. No one is going to use two roster spots on a Reed/Davidson platoon because it’s not much better, and I doubt it is better, than rostering a middle reliever and a bench bat. And if one of those gets hurt, or doesn’t work out, then you’re stuck with a remaining piece that was too lousy to be good on its own in the first place.

The best combos have pieces that can function without the others. Otherwise, you’re just spending two cards to do the job of one good one.

sandwiches4everMember since 2019
6 years ago
Reply to  JupiterBrando

But if you’re building a deck out of cards that you can afford, or that you pulled out in a draft, your best choice may be limited to the weird combo, because your options are limited.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
6 years ago
Reply to  JupiterBrando

Okay, but the difference is that in baseball you get to decide which cards come up in which order, and some cards are exceptionally rare (even more rare than in those games) and you need to fill out the roster with more common cards.

carterMember since 2020
6 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I realize now that the 3 batter minimum rule has taken place, this won’t likely happen, but I don’t see how anyone can say a Ohtani/McKay 1st base platoon rotating on batter handedness wouldn’t be good, even if it takes two roster spots.

Walsh’s stuff has looked decent in the minors thus far, and I think Ohtani should be a relief pitcher, not a starter due to his bat. Maybe one day the Angels can try some weird 1st base magic. Unsure how it would look, but it would be fun.

Edit: Noticed someone else said something to the same tune below

Jeff McNeil Truther
6 years ago

These memey article names are obnoxious

Original Greaser Bob
6 years ago

Sounds to me like you’ve reached peak, peak title articles.

RoyalsFan#14321Member since 2024
6 years ago

We appear to have reached peak reaching peak articles.

Bobby Ayala
6 years ago

We’ve reached peak Jay Jaffe titling articles. Get an intern in there to help!

TKDCMember since 2016
6 years ago

Seriously, I actually like the memey, cute article titles, but not when they are just lazy and repetitive.

Great article, though, which I guess matters more. But really we only know that this is “peak position players pitching” because MLB is curtailing it via regulation next year. Who knows how high it would have gone absent intervention.

RoyalsFan#14321Member since 2024
6 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

You kidding? Jay is a treasure. I just thought my line was worth the shot.

AnonMember since 2025
6 years ago

I thought the most interesting aspect of that Murphy/Martin game from March 30th is that it came in the 3rd game of the season. I remember at the time wondering if that was the earliest in a season that a team went to a position player.

Also, if by “closing out a win” you mean the guy finished the game on the mound, then that might be true, but Brent Mayne actually recorded a win on 8/22/2000 pitching a scoreless top of the 12th and then getting the walkoff win in the bottom of the inning. I remember at the time that he was the 1st position player in a loooooong time to get a win pitching (maybe it was the 1st ever?). I assume that hasn’t happened since then.

DDMember since 2020
6 years ago
Reply to  Anon

Wilson Valdez, 5/25/2011. I remember because my daughter was born that day and I was up all night so I got to watch the whole game.

RealCarlAllen
6 years ago

JB Shuck was originally an Angel if I’m not mistaken.

They could legitimately have Ohtani, Walsh, and Shuck as viable 2-way players all on the same team..it would make for some interesting alignments if nothing else.

You could even feasibly argue that in games where Ohtani is the SP, they could forego a DH.

DougMember since 2019
6 years ago
Reply to  RealCarlAllen

You could argue for forgoing the DH, except then you wouldn’t have Shohei in the late innings.

AnonMember since 2025
6 years ago
Reply to  Doug

No, but they would also have a markedly better hitter the 1st 2 to 4 times up. It really becomes a question of whether you want a better hitter for 2-3 PA and then have a string of pinch-hitters (or relievers hitting for themselves) or do you want a lesser hitter than Ohtani for 4-5 PA but not have to burn a couple pinch-hitters.

C Beisbol
6 years ago
Reply to  Anon

It’s always a tradeoff.

And looking at pluses AND negatives is a skill missing from to many people in 2019

AnonMember since 2025
6 years ago
Reply to  RealCarlAllen

With what Ohtani has done at the plate since he stopped pitching, I have really been wondering if they will do that next year when he pitches again. I kind of guess they won’t since they will need to get Pujols some time at DH and Ohtani starts would be a perfect time to do that, but Ohtani is a better option at DH than anyone else they have on the roster and they assuredly aren’t going to go out and sign anyone to play DH next year so he will still be their best option.

I think it also becomes really interesting if they start letting him play the field. He could start the game pitching and then go to 1B for the rest of the game and you wouldn’t even lose his bat when he comes off the mound.

j_co88
6 years ago
Reply to  RealCarlAllen

They’re messing around with Kaleb Cowart pitching as well. He hasn’t been particularly good at it, but he has thrown 15 innings in the high minors this year along with 324 PA. Even without Shuck, they have the potential to have 3 two-way players. Walsh has raked at AAA this year and his pitching numbers aren’t terrible in Salt Lake either.

Mike NMN
6 years ago

Looks like we are in the Golden Age of Position Player Pitching. In decades to come, baseball historians will look back in awe,

Detroit Michael
6 years ago

Have their been any notable injuries since Jose Canseco a very long time ago due to position players pitcheing? That seems to be the big downside here. It still seems that managers avoid using stars to pitch these mop-up innings.

AnonMember since 2025
6 years ago

I think part of the reason so many of the guys go out there and lob 55 mph batting practice fastballs up there is fear of hurting their arm. I was watching the Ford game against the Indians last week and Paul O’Neill was doing the color commentary. He said when he pitched in 1987, his arm hurt for quite a bit afterwards and he was actually worried he might need to go on the DL.

MikeSMember since 2020
6 years ago

I’m old, but I remember my father loudly proclaiming there was no need to carry 10 pitchers on an AL team because of the DH. Now 12 or 13 aren’t enough.

FS54
6 years ago

It is the lack of workhorse starting pitchers. I think teams need to invest in one or two starting pitcher who can potentially pitch ton of innings in a season and not necessarily prevent lot of runs. There is value in a pitcher who is ready to pitch every fifth game for 7-8 innings at least. Even if he gives up 4-5 runs every outing, by pitching so many innings every fifth day, he is saving lot of other arms from overworking.

@3_2count
6 years ago
Reply to  FS54

Not every team can have a Trevor Bauer.

Adam C
6 years ago
Reply to  FS54

Is there any reason why the top starters can’t pitch 240-250 innings a year?

FS54
6 years ago
Reply to  Adam C

Yes, given how fast or difficult pitches starting pitchers throw, it is hardly surprising that any pitchers reach that mark.

noah2112Member since 2016
6 years ago
Reply to  FS54

Every team needs a knuckleballer who can pitch multiple innings any night.

mikejuntMember
6 years ago

Have we reached peak “we’ve reached peak..” articles by Jay Jaffe, or will we find another peak to reach tomorrow? 😉

I kid, for I have enjoyed both articles.

TKDCMember since 2016
6 years ago

I wonder if the removal of the second trade deadline has played a part in this August boom? Teams don’t have as much ability to address needs and may at times be playing with less than optimal 25-man rosters.

stever20Member since 2017
6 years ago

It’ll be interesting to see what next years rules do to this dynamic. Remember everyone will get a 26th player so 13 position players and 13 pitchers….

mikejuntMember
6 years ago
Reply to  stever20

Just wait til teams use that on another reliever.

stever20Member since 2017
6 years ago
Reply to  mikejunt

don’t think they’re allowed to. Teams forced to have a maximum of 13 pitchers I think.

Jetsy Extrano
6 years ago

As part of the decreasing performance, have hitter approaches changed? Like if they used to have an unwritten rule to go easy on these poor sods. Or has the quality of pitching position players (can’t believe I’m saying that) decreased as teams dig down past the supply of “almost a decent pitcher” players?

EltnegMember since 2020
6 years ago
Reply to  Jetsy Extrano

I don’t know about hitter approaches, but I have seen evidence that the zone expands significantly when a position player comes in. I honestly support that and hope it stays that way once we get robot umps; I don’t think anybody wants to see the backup catcher get squeezed on a borderline 3-0 pitch when his team’s down 12 runs in the top of the 9th.

Jetsy Extrano
6 years ago

“Despite not topping 56 mph with any of his 12 offerings (all classified as fastballs by Pitch Info)”

That can’t possibly be his good throw, right? To be playing any position besides maybe a bad 1B?

EltnegMember since 2020
6 years ago
Reply to  Jetsy Extrano

Nah, Wilkerson’s an OF with a good arm. He was throwing about as slowly as possible while still getting the ball across the plate, and Angels hitters were so disoriented they couldn’t make good contact. It’s a pretty decent strategy— low 50s is probably harder for pro batters to square up than the low 80s fastballs Wilkerson would’ve been throwing, and there’s no chance of him hurting his arm.

curt schillings ketchup bottle
6 years ago

I dunno, I was pretty entertained when Stevie Wilkerson closed out the angels by throwing 55 mph rainbows

stareagleMember since 2018
6 years ago

Ron Gardenhire said he used a position player to pitch once in his first 14 seasons. He hates the idea and worries about injuries. He’s used Brandon Dixon twice this season.

psychobunny
6 years ago

What’s the collective xFIP of the 4 Orioles who did this, vs say the collective xFIP of the entire Oriole starting rotation?

ScoreboardMember since 2016
6 years ago

Full highlight clip for Ichiro’s inning (the one you linked to in the article is the official MLB version but shows none of the at-bats): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H80xg3aCx0A

bums
6 years ago

I don’t understand why you would have to exclude Ohtani from this exercise, the man has only ever played the position of pitcher as a major leaguer.