What Would a Vladito Contract Look Like?

Patrick Gorski-USA TODAY Sports

In a generally bleak 2024 season for the Toronto Blue Jays, one of the few bright spots in that Kafkaesque wasteland was the return of Vladimir Guerrero Jr. as a force to be reckoned with in the lineup. Guerrero followed up his MVP-caliber performance in 2021 with a solid-but-underwhelming 2022 season and a below-average 2023, and there were real questions about his value as a player as he neared his expected free agency after the 2025 campaign. His .323/.396/.544, 165 wRC+, 5.5 WAR line last year was a dramatic demonstration that his 2021 season was a lot more than a stone-cold fluke. Free agency beckons, and the Blue Jays are down to the last year of his services before he reaches the open market. Guerrero set the deadline to work out an extension with Toronto for February 17, and that date has come and gone without an agreement.

My colleague, and notable non-pitcher, Mike Baumann wrote about the risks and rewards of signing Guerrero to a long-term deal from the perspectives of both parties, so you ought to read that for further exposition on the topic. We’re hear to put the fear into numbers, the numbers into dollars, and the dollars back into fear!

The question of a Guerrero contract is a tricky one, as there are factors that both strongly urge and forcefully condemn the idea of giving him a monster deal. And unless he has a terrible 2025 season, a monster deal is what he will get; he already turned down a $340 million offer in December that he characterized as “not even close” to what he is seeking. So long as he and his representation don’t negotiate like Homer Simpson, we can presume that his desired number is significantly higher than that!

Generally speaking, this is not a great time to be a right-right first baseman in free agency. When Pete Alonso hit free agency, the ZiPS projections suggested only a three-year, $66 million deal for him, or $77 million spread out over four years in a neutral park. But I was actually confident that his pedigree was enough that at least one team would give him a contract that would handily beat those numbers. Turns out, that was not the case. As Baumann lays out in his piece, Guerrero is “a better player by some margin” than Alonso, but as a bat-only first baseman, Guerrero does face a similar risk that his services will be worth significantly less on the open market than he expects.

On the flip side, Guerrero is more than four years younger than Alonso is now, and his relative youth should be extremely beneficial for him when he reaches free agency ahead of his age-27 season. Only three of the 110 batters listed on our free agent tracker this offseason are younger than 27, and 92 of those 110 hitters (83.6%) will be at least 30 for the 2025 campaign.

So let’s start off the projectionating with a fictional construct to illustrate the point: What if Guerrero were four years older than his actual age? Here is the future ZiPS projection for a free agent Guerrero, if he were 31 years old for the 2026 season. I’m going with a neutral park for these projections.

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ZiPS Projection – Vladimir Guerrero Jr. (Four Years Older)
Year BA OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB OPS+ WAR
2026 .282 .363 .478 571 85 161 31 0 27 90 68 94 3 134 3.3
2027 .276 .357 .462 544 78 150 29 0 24 82 64 90 3 128 2.7
2028 .270 .349 .446 514 71 139 27 0 21 75 59 86 2 122 2.0
2029 .264 .343 .428 474 63 125 24 0 18 66 54 82 2 116 1.5
2030 .256 .336 .410 429 54 110 21 0 15 57 49 77 2 109 0.9
2031 .253 .334 .399 371 46 94 18 0 12 47 42 67 1 105 0.6
2032 .254 .332 .400 307 37 78 15 0 10 38 34 56 1 105 0.5
2033 .250 .327 .385 272 31 68 13 0 8 32 29 50 1 100 0.2

With still a full season to go before free agency, ZiPS would only be interested in offering this older version of Guerrero a contract worth around $100 million. It also primarily would be interested in only the first five years. Now, let’s compare that to the actual projection.

ZiPS Projection – Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
Year BA OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB OPS+ WAR
2026 .287 .371 .492 582 91 167 32 0 29 96 74 91 4 140 3.9
2027 .284 .370 .482 581 90 165 31 0 28 94 75 89 4 138 3.7
2028 .281 .368 .475 580 88 163 31 0 27 91 76 88 3 135 3.4
2029 .278 .366 .469 568 85 158 30 0 26 87 74 86 3 133 3.2
2030 .271 .358 .449 546 79 148 28 0 23 81 70 82 3 126 2.5
2031 .274 .360 .453 519 75 142 27 0 22 76 67 79 2 127 2.5
2032 .270 .356 .444 489 69 132 25 0 20 70 62 75 2 123 2.1
2033 .270 .356 .438 489 67 132 25 0 19 69 62 75 2 122 2.0
2034 .270 .356 .433 452 61 122 23 0 17 62 57 70 1 121 1.7

Given his up-and-down career, ZiPS isn’t comfortable enough to give Guerrero what the Blue Jays offered, but the system still would offer him a deal worth nearly three times as much as it would give the hypothetical 31-year-old Vladito. But just to get a third look at a Guerrero projection, let’s project 2026 through 2034 with the assumption that he puts up the same numbers in 2025 that he did last season.

ZiPS Projection – Vladimir Guerrero Jr. (Repeats 2024 in 2025)
Year BA OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB OPS+ WAR
2026 .314 .392 .533 585 94 184 39 1 29 100 72 90 2 157 5.2
2027 .310 .389 .522 584 93 181 38 1 28 98 73 88 2 153 4.9
2028 .304 .384 .509 583 91 177 37 1 27 96 74 87 2 149 4.5
2029 .300 .381 .499 583 89 175 36 1 26 93 74 86 2 145 4.2
2030 .293 .375 .485 583 87 171 35 1 25 90 74 86 1 140 3.8
2031 .286 .368 .464 584 84 167 35 0 23 87 73 87 1 132 3.2
2032 .284 .366 .460 584 83 166 34 0 23 85 73 88 1 131 3.1
2033 .282 .364 .453 556 77 157 32 0 21 80 69 84 1 128 2.7
2034 .282 .363 .447 557 75 157 32 0 20 78 68 85 1 126 2.5

With a repeat of his 2024 season, ZiPS is a lot more confident in Guerrero’s future, adding enough to get to the $400 million mark over nine years, with the rest of his career after that point tacking on another $100 million. While it’s not universally true, professional athletes tend to be quite confident in their abilities, and the extension negotiations thus far look a lot like Vladito is expressing his belief in himself. The Blue Jays also clearly believe in him more than ZiPS does – you don’t offer $340 million to players you don’t think will be worth it – but their offer also probablly had something to do with their fear of the consequences if they do not sign him. So, what do the Jays look like in a future without Guerrero and Bo Bichette, who is also set for free agency after this season?

To answer this question, I did an absurdly early 2026 ZiPS projected standings run, based on no team having any of their currently unsigned players for 2026.

ZiPS Projected AL East Standings – 2026
Team W L GB Pct Div% WC% Playoff% WS Win% 80th 20th
Boston Red Sox 90 72 .556 34.2% 37.8% 72.0% 5.0% 97.4 83.2
New York Yankees 88 74 2 .543 25.0% 37.2% 62.2% 5.7% 95.6 80.7
Baltimore Orioles 88 74 2 .543 24.4% 37.4% 61.7% 5.7% 95.3 80.8
Tampa Bay Rays 86 76 4 .531 13.5% 31.6% 45.1% 2.1% 91.8 77.3
Toronto Blue Jays 78 84 12 .481 3.0% 13.9% 16.8% 0.9% 84.7 69.5

ZiPS already projects the 2025 Blue Jays as the weakest time in the AL East, but one that’s only a game or two behind the Rays and Red Sox, and only seven games back in the division. But come 2026, ZiPS believe Toronto’s hand is far weaker, with aging and free agent departures projected to severely diminish the team’s production, especially compared to its AL East rivals. Sure, if the Blue Jays decide not to pay Guerrero, they’ll free up nearly $30 million to spend on a replacement, but after their multiple attempts to add high-profile free agents these last two offseasons, they know as well as anyone that it takes more than money to sign superstars. Everyone who wants to spent $150,000 on a Porsche can get a Porsche, but if another team wants to sign Juan Soto for three-quarters of a billion bucks, and he chooses that club instead, he’s gone for good, with no similar players available. Guerrero represents the same dilemma, even though he won’t make close to Soto money; very few star offensive players are hitting free agency over the next few years. Here are the hitters who are currently eligible to become free agents after either 2025 or 2026, ranked by projected OPS+ from 2026 to 2028.

Top Free Agents by ZiPS Projected OPS+
Player 2026-2028 OPS+ Free Agency After
Vladimir Guerrero Jr. 143 2025
Kyle Tucker 127 2025
Seiya Suzuki 116 2026
Pete Alonso 116 2026
Jazz Chisholm Jr. 114 2026
Joc Pederson 114 2026
Nathaniel Lowe 113 2026
Randy Arozarena 113 2026
Josh Naylor 112 2025
Ryan O’Hearn 111 2025
Yandy Díaz 110 2025
Ian Happ 109 2026

Of the top 100 players by projected 2026-2028 OPS+, only 11 will be free agents (Happ is ranked 102nd), and that’s if the Rangers don’t pick up Pederson’s option for 2027. Even taking into consideration Guerrero’s inconsistent career, there doesn’t appear to be anyone out there you’d like to pay as much as him. That’s why the ZiPS projected contracts for Guerrero are likely considerably below what he will actually get.

So now the Blue Jays find themselves at a crossroads. Personally, I think their failure to sign Guerrero before his deadline should be treated as the fatal blow to the organization — not just for the next few years, but for this one as well. A lot of things would need to go right for Toronto to turn a Guerrero-less roster into a serious AL East threat if he leaves as a free agent. Considering this, the Jays might be better off trading Guerrero — they would almost certainly get an excellent return package for him — to retool for another run two or three years from now, even though that would all but officially take them out of contention for the 2025 campaign. Whatever happens, because the Blue Jays didn’t extend the face of their franchise, this is shaping up to be their most consequential season since the mid-1990s.





Dan Szymborski is a senior writer for FanGraphs and the developer of the ZiPS projection system. He was a writer for ESPN.com from 2010-2018, a regular guest on a number of radio shows and podcasts, and a voting BBWAA member. He also maintains a terrible Twitter account at @DSzymborski.

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laughingstockMember since 2025
1 year ago

Are those median or mean projections?

Also you’ve got a typo – “probablly”

Daniel -Member since 2025
1 year ago
Reply to  laughingstock

They’re 50th percentile median projections I believe.

AlbyMember since 2025
1 year ago
Reply to  laughingstock

Also “hear” instead of “here.”

Jason ScottMember since 2024
1 year ago
Reply to  Alby

And time instead of team…

MikeSMember since 2020
1 year ago

It seems to me that a lot of MLB GM’s are prone to valuing recency over primacy, so I think this years performance is really important for him.

Then again, a lot of MLB GM’s also seem very willing to let themselves be convinced that “best available” = “really good” and that is not always the case.

booondMember since 2019
1 year ago

A triple cheeseburger with chili fries.

VandenbrandMember since 2019
1 year ago
Reply to  booond

If that’s to key to averaging
97/34/101/5
.293/.370/.517
Since 2021, we should sign the entire league up for that diet.
Clearly it’s doing the trick.

airforce21oneMember since 2026
1 year ago
Reply to  Vandenbrand

Is .293/.370/.517 for a 1B worth $40M a year to you?

3cardmontyMember since 2025
1 year ago
Reply to  airforce21one

IDK but it’s definitely worth a triple cheeseburger with chili fries

Bigsm00th
1 year ago
Reply to  airforce21one

2021 included much of the season in tiny AAA ballparks where he raked. Looking at just 22-23-24 it is 290/360/490, with annual outputs of 29 HR and 98 RBI. in 6 MLB seasons, only 2 with a SLG over .500. its a very good but not elite bat which everyone assumes is elite because his dad is in the HOF.

CC AFCMember since 2016
1 year ago

Pretty likely he’ll not have a QO either, assuming the jays aren’t miraculously contenders by the deadline. Not that it makes a huge difference for a free agent of his caliber but could swing a few extra bucks compared to him having the QO

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  CC AFC

It would be shocking to see the Blue Jays trade him unless they were so bad they go into full tear down mode. They have so much riding on keeping Guerrero.

CC AFCMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

If they’re out of it, why wouldn’t they? I don’t think they’ll trade him pre-season nor would I expect them to trade him if they’re reasonably in it. If they’re toast, though, I don’t remember too many instances of teams doing like the Angels and not trading a huge asset that’s about to reach free agency like that.

Last edited 1 year ago by CC AFC
John ChurchMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  CC AFC

In fairness to the Angels, they were close enough to being in it that they went for it rather than giving up. It didn’t work (and maybe that was because it was a poor strategy or maybe just poorly executed), but isn’t that what we as fans want teams to do?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  CC AFC

Because if Vlad Jr is not a Blue Jay for the 2026 season there is a noticeably higher chance everyone gets fired.

Really if it wasn’t for the renovations on the stadium, this front office would already be gone. But the guy running point on the renovations is Shapiro, and Atkins is his guy.

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
1 year ago

My fear is that if there ever was a candidate for total collapse because of his body morphing rapidly into something that shouldn’t be rostered by a major league team it is Vladdy. I admit that I had written him off, at least as a star, after 2023 because I thought he had already begun to lose the quickness required to hit. I was smugly congratulating myself at the end of April and was totally surprised by his sensational hitting after that. He is still a huge man and his defense, shaky at best, is bound to slide and probably quite soon. This is a risk that some GM is going to take but it could easily be career ending.

dodgerbleu
1 year ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

I think there are plenty of comps to know what they’re getting into, and for us to know how this is likely to end. Prince and Cecil Fielder spring to mind. Ryan Howard, John Kruk, Matt Stairs, Mo Vaughn (met him at a strip club once.. Rowdy Tellez, Vogelbach, Miguel Sano, and Willians Astudillo for some more contemporary names.

I think the best case scenario is someone like Manny, Miggy or Gwynn, but a more realistic acceptable “good” outcome might be Carlos Lee? It might be a little more workable on the pitching side, there will never be another Bartolo, but names like CC, David Wells, Broxton, Bautista, Lackey, etc. all made it work.

They aren’t common, but common enough that no GM in 2025 should be blindsided by anything. It’s a ticking time bomb for offensive players. Vladdy is a freak but he’s no Gwynn, Manny actually worked out really hard he just didn’t watch his weight, and Miggy did try to watch his weight and he just struggled.

Vlad seems like he’s going more the Pablo Sandoval, Dmitri Young, 31+ year old Andruw Jones route. It’s not a good route.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  dodgerbleu

I think Miguel Cabrera is an interesting comp. Maybe not in terms of the peak, because I don’t think Guerrero is likely to put up a 7 or 8 win seasons. He doesn’t hit enough homers for that. But the raw power / bat speed and the peripherals match pretty well, and he was a great hitter right up until age 34 and then he crashed.

I think if you want to be optimistic and you’re a GM, you think you are getting 7 years of actual production in the 4 to 6.5 WAR range. Maybe you stretch it out farther for luxury tax purposes and to assuage the star’s ego, but without those things it looks like the right value is a 7 year, $315M contract.

That’s probably the optimistic side, but one that I think is within the bounds of plausibility.

dodgerbleu
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

The way you described Miggy made me think of Tigers era Victor Martinez. Not the wear and tear from catching, but from a less powerful POV and in terms of peak. Great hitter, bat speed, raw power, and again he had the years of catching, but he seems like if he was at 1B instead of C he would’ve been awfully similar to Vlad. And he went from a top 3 hitter at 35 (a career year, but with all the peripherals to back it up) to one of the worst hitters in the league the very next season. A literal cliff, ironically, when he was finally moved to DH full time and asked to focus on just hitting.

The thing is, I remember some talk about Cabrera’s conditioning as a Marlin, but more in context of having to move him off 3B and out of the OF. I remember a LOT of talk about Vladdy’s conditioning, starting when he was in high school, and really ramping up in AA.. Where he did hit .400, but still, I think Vlad comes with a lot more warning signs than most of these names we’re talking about.

I don’t know that the shareholders are going to be very inclined to assuage any star’s ego. That’s a different animal than the regular baseball owner. But then again, the way Tesla shareholders tried to throw $50+ billion at Elon to work on Tesla 30 hours a week, you never know how that will go. Still, a think that they’re going to be more detached and unforgiving than most, which doesn’t bode well for Vlad. I could see him getting 7 years and 315 million. I just can’t see him earning it.

I hope he does, he’s fun. But I highly doubt his story unfolds that way..

NATS FanMember since 2018
1 year ago
Reply to  dodgerbleu

What’s amazing is prince fielder was a calorie counting freak and that probably hurt him. He just was born with a body that was not normal. diabetes is a bitch! We were told his was type 1. If that’s the case then there was little more he could have done to keep his athleticism long term.

dodgerbleu
1 year ago
Reply to  NATS Fan

Yep, just one of those things. It’s too bad. That press conference where he announced his retirement chokes me up whenever I revisit it. He was a baseball rat, grew up on the diamond, and it was just taken from him like that. It was really sad, I felt terrible for him.

EasyenoughMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  NATS Fan

If you look at MLB players with confirmed type 1, they are all ripped, low body fat. With lifters inject insulin to (supposedly) reduce body fat to the low single digits. Garrett Mitchell and Brandon Morrow are examples of MLB players with type 1.

I can’t find a single reference to Fielder junior having type 1. High body mass with insulin resistance is typically type II diabetes, which, while sharing symptoms is unrelated in cause.

airforce21oneMember since 2026
1 year ago
Reply to  dodgerbleu

I wouldn’t throw Tony Gwynn in there. People forget Gwynn was a pretty good D1 basketball player.

FrancoeursteinMember since 2025
1 year ago
Reply to  airforce21one

He was quite hefty later in his career, can’t deny that. But his game didn’t rely on power and insane bat speed, so he was alright.

dodgerbleu
1 year ago
Reply to  Francoeurstein

Yeah I was thinking mid-to-late late career Gwynn. I remember him being skinny on his rookie card. Then by year 3 he was a little bit chubby. Kind of like Kirby Puckett. Unlike Puckett, Gwynn was skinny again on his 1987 Topps card, that set with the wood frame design, whereas Kirby just kept getting bigger and bigger on his card each year. But it was short lived, by 1989, Gwynn was chubby on his cards again, and by 1990 and through the time I really remember watching him, he was….more than chubby.

But I’d say he was alright. And then some. Like during the mid 90s and through the strike year, when he hit .406 over 162 consecutive games, and hit over .400 for 184 consecutive games overall, he was not a slim specimen. But it didn’t matter, forget finishing 1994 with .394 AVG, he hit .400 for 184 game stretch and 802 PA. We may never see a .400 season after Williams hit .406, but we did. Gwynn hit .406, carrying it over between seasons and taking an extra month on top while keeping it above .400 for good measure is just as, if not more impressive.

And I remember fat Tony Gwynn accomplishing that. Though tbf, having Bip Roberts hit right in front of him probably didn’t help my perception of his weight at the time either, anyone would look big after.

FrancoeursteinMember since 2025
1 year ago
Reply to  dodgerbleu

Good post, thanks for the anecdote. It’s a shame I was born a few years too late, otherwise I would’ve gotten to watch Tony Gwynn in his prime. Maddux, too. There’s a unique kind of beauty about a ballplayer being so far ahead of everyone else in the finesse aspects of the game.

dodgerbleu
1 year ago
Reply to  Francoeurstein

Maddux was insane, but as I kid I didn’t appreciate him the same way I appreciated Unit or Pedro. But because TBS and WGN aired all the Braves and Cubs games, I did get to watch a lot of him. I actually thought Steve Avery had better looking stuff than Maddux or Glavine. Or Smoltz, for that matter. One Maddux anecdote I’ll always remember though is a pregame show where he was describing how he was effective – the phrase “tunneling” wasn’t used yet, but that’s what he what he described – he called it a “stream of milk”, he wanted the white ball to always travel down that stream of milk, and then at the very end, cut, dive, or fade out of the stream of milk.. The Professor.

This was during his Braves heyday, and his stuff wasn’t the same as it was in Chicago, he really was just a brilliant pitching mind. He was almost like the Teddy of pitching in terms of understanding the art/science of his craft way before his time. On the Cubs, he was more of a power pitcher, he could reach back and chuck it if he needed to. But on the Braves, he was just smarter and executed better than whatever guy stood in the box against him. Every time.

Though much more recent, Greg Maddux pranking Kris Bryant is all time, I think illustrates that his stuff was plenty nasty as well..

gettwobrute79Member since 2026
1 year ago
Reply to  dodgerbleu

Mo Vaughn at a strip club conjures up the Parks and Rec scene where Ron Swanson shows no interest in the strippers, but loves the breakfast buffet they put out.

dodgerbleu
1 year ago
Reply to  gettwobrute79

Lol that’s so funny! So this strip club had a lunch “buffet”, which just sounds so gross. The “buffet’ was hotdogs in a crock pot if IIRC, which doesn’t help, but that’s why we went there, or at least that’s what we said. They were good hotdogs, better than I’d buy at that age and point in life at least! Didn’t actually save money, if you can believe that… It was a few blocks from the office where I worked, 1 of 4 places we could walk. Mo was there by himself, definitely before 1 pm, but AFAIK, they didn’t open for breakfast hours! It was his second year with the Angels, before he missed the full year with the ruptured bicep, which… I don’t even want to speculate! But he was really cool, and gracious! Now that I understand… things, a bit better, in hindsight, I doubt he wanted some kid coming up asking him 20 questions about Seton Hall at that moment 🤣

Last edited 1 year ago by dodgerbleu
bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  dodgerbleu

i think the best case scenario is David Ortiz. It is stretching probability to think that Vladdy is going to able to play anything resembling major league level 1st base much past 30 but he could still DH and be a very useful player. Big Papi is almost a unicorn when it comes to very large men continuing to be able to catch up to heat as the near and go past 40.

dodgerbleu
1 year ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

That’s interesting. And that would be a dream come true for Vlad and whoever signs him next. Ortiz was sitting on 57 HR at Vlad’s current age. If Vlad adheres to the Papi timeline, he’s going to breeze into the 600 HR club and probably challenge Willie Mays and end up in the mid 600s.

Vlad plays a lot more than Ortiz ever did. Ortiz played 159 games once, but never had a year with more than 151 besides that. Vlad has averaged 159 games the last 4 years.

Ortiz had one down year in 2009, which was also the last year he played in 150+ games until his final season in 2016. From then on he was playing in ~145 games even without an IL trip. But outside of that, his performance always bounced between good and elite. I assume not playing in 150+ games for those next 6 seasons, where he never had a wRC+ below 134.

So maybe management and rest are a bigger factor for these, errr, big guys, than I think. It sure looks like part of the fountain of youth for Ortiz, at least. And another thing about them both is IMO, they can both seemingly find an extra gear when they want. Ortiz in the playoffs, and his last season, for instance. Vlad just this last season, where he was constantly in the media for his down year and then just seemed to decide “Nope” and turned it on. And that might be related to the same thing – they only have so much energy to exert before their bodies tire and performance slips.

That might not be related, and it might not even be a thing, it’s an anecdotal observation on a SSS of 1 lol. But intuitively, it makes sense, and I’m kinda thinking it is a thing. Not the only thing, but workload management – playing ~145 games, taking them out early in blowouts, and not going all out, all the time, at 100% – might be key to managing these big sluggers over the long haul.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago

The Blue Jays’ front office is desperate to not get fired, which is why it is unlikely they will trade Vlad Jr and why they offered that deal to him in the first place. It’s a bit like the Rafael Devers situation where the fan base is ready to riot if the homegrown slugger leaves. But Bloom got fired anyway so signing a guy to a big deal isn’t a foolproof plan either.

This is a case where I’m not sure what the “right” move is for the Blue Jays but it’s all irrelevant because they have boxed themselves in. On its face the offer they made to him seems reasonable to me, but he’s a slow guy already and might have to be a permanent DH soon. It’s not like it’s a problem if he keeps hitting like Miguel Cabrera but Cabrera was also a zero from his age-34 season forward.

darren
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Very good comp on Raffy. He really did seem to be signed just to show that they would sign someone (or maybe because of their age-above-all-else fetish).

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  darren

It’s a weird situation because you think Devers and Vlad Jr are good bets to hit for a while because of their age, but it’s not like there is a huge long list of immobile guys aging well. Does that mean a super long contract is a good idea or a bad idea? Hard to say.

darren
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

It seems like that would suggest that it’s a bad idea. At least that’s what Pablo Sandoval told me.

Last edited 1 year ago by darren
darren
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Trying to think of some bigger guys who were very good hitters in their mid 20s, and how they aged from 28 on, and just quickly scanning, here’s what I’ve got:

Good for 10 year deal:
Ortiz (wasn’t that good in mid-20s, but still)
Miggy

Bad for 10 year deal:
Luzinski
Fielder
Fielder
Parker
Sandoval
Mitchell
M Vaughn
AGonz
Powell

Roger McDowell Hot Foot
1 year ago
Reply to  darren

Prince Fielder seems like the most obvious comp in this regard. Fairly similar on-and-off peak batting performance, even.

darren
1 year ago

I guess, but he was just so much bigger than pretty much anyone I can think of.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago

It is unclear to me when Prince Fielder’s injury sapped him his explosiveness but he dipped a bit between his age 28 and age 29 seasons.

Fielder also hit the ball in the air a lot more.

I actually like the Cabrera comp, even though it is optimistic.

darren
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

It’s okay to be optimistic!

NATS FanMember since 2018
1 year ago
Reply to  darren

Top 2 juiced.

deanMember since 2024
1 year ago
Reply to  NATS Fan

Both failed zero roid test.

CC AFCMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  darren

Almost no one’s gonna be good for the entirety of a 10 year deal going into their late 30s, workout warriors included. Other big guys(excluding steroid guys like Bonds and Manny) who were good into their early-mid 30s:

– Goldschmidt
– Frank Thomas (the HOFer)
– Delgado
– Edwin Encarnacion
– Jose Abreu
– JD Martinez

airforce21oneMember since 2026
1 year ago
Reply to  CC AFC

Some of those “big” guys you listed were not “big” in the way Vladito is. Frank Thomas, for example, was 6’5 and had a scholarship to play football at Auburn.

darren
1 year ago
Reply to  airforce21one

Agreed. He was a specimen that was so muscular that it was surprising that he could still be such a great hitter. Basically a proto-Aaron Judge, and the complete opposite of Vladito.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  darren

Frank Thomas as a proto-Aaron Judge is quite good in a lot of ways. Both of these guys were just shockingly tall and strong in ways that set them apart from everyone else. It’s interesting because most of the super elite power hitters before those two and Stanton and McGwire weren’t that huge (but McGwire also was juicing and who knows when). Dave Kingman and Darryl Stawberry were pretty thin, Dick Allen and Harmon Killebrew weren’t that tall. But Thomas and Judge and Stanton also hit the ball harder than basically anyone else, ever.

The big difference between Frank Thomas and Stanton / Judge is that Thomas also had something like a 70 grade hit tool. His BB%+ through age 32 was 190, and his K%+ was an 80. That’s really, really good. That’s better on both counts than Barry Bonds, Mickey Mantle, Rickey Henderson, and Joey Votto through age 32.

Well, also he couldn’t play defense at all and both Stanton and Judge can / could. Which is why he has the 7th most offensive value from 1951 to the present–ahead of both Pujols and Rickey Henderson despite a lot fewer PAs–and is only 29th in position player WAR.

darren
1 year ago
Reply to  CC AFC

I didn’t mean to suggest that a player needs to be good at the end of a 10 year deal. Miggy, for example, was done at 33, but a 10 year deal at age 28 would still have worked out really well because of how great he was from 28 to 33.

The guys you mention are, indeed, big guys, but not the way that I meant. I was referring to erm, uh, non-svelte guys. I don’t think any of those players really fit that bill. Maybe Jose Abreu? But I still would not have wanted to give him a massive contract at age 27-28. He put up 23 WAR from 28 to 35, then dipped into negative territory.

Jason BMember since 2017
1 year ago
Reply to  CC AFC

But Frank Thomas had the Nugenix Total-T.

And guys, she’ll like it too

airforce21oneMember since 2026
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

This. $340M is already too much for Vladdy. What else can Toronto do? The logical move is a trade, but you’re right, fans would hate it. I don’t think it would be quite the Luka Doncic/Mavericks fans level hate, but close.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  airforce21one

I think you could get to $340M without too much trouble; I worked it out where 7 years, $315M is at the high end of what is reasonable (since you can’t expect him to do anything starting at age 34) and then if you stretch it out for tax purposes you can go higher since that money is far in the future. But Vlad says this isn’t even close, so the front office is stuck.

airforce21oneMember since 2026
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

34!? I expect Vladito to be close to 1-2 WAR by 29/30.

darren
1 year ago

Given his up-and-down career, ZiPS isn’t comfortable enough to give Guerrero what the Blue Jays offered, but the system still would offer him a deal worth nearly three times as much as it would give the hypothetical 31-year-old Vladito.

So what does ZIPS think he’s worth with his current projection? $275 mil?

If I were the Blue Jays, these projections and the Alonso contract would make me feel like I did the right thing by not upping my offer. Face of the franchise or not, Vlad just doesn’t look like more than a very good player. Losing him in 2026 will hurt, of course, but I feel like I can get better return for my $50 mil per year plus the return for dealing him.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago

I have no idea whether Vlad Jr was smart to turn down that offer or not. But this definitely a situation where he has to come close to repeating his 2024 to beat it dramatically. A lot of the big spenders like the Yankees, Dodgers, Giants, and Phillies are not going to be going after him. I don’t think the Mets are in on him either.

The Red Sox probably will, but the level depends on his performance in 2025 and if Bregman opts out. I’m having a hard time seeing them offer $400M-$500M.

The real disaster comes in two situations:
1) He plays more like 2022 than 2024. At that point I’m pretty sure a $300M deal is off the table and he’s looking at deals with opt outs.
2) If the Blue Jays front office gets fired before the offseason gets underway, and the new front office decides $400M to a player is a bad investment with the team being bad enough that the front office got fired.

darren
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Even at a more reasonable number, I can’t see the Red Sox adding him in 2026. They already have three guys that they consider DH and/or 1B: Raffy, Casas, and Yoshida.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  darren

I only mention them because they are so obsessed with adding another right-handed bat.

Although who knows, maybe they’ll go for Bichette instead.

Matt
1 year ago
Reply to  darren

I don’t think the Red Sox would allow the 2 years remaining on a Yoshida contract to deter them from chasing Vlad. Plus, now that Yoshida’s arm is repaired, they can get him more playing time in the OF (although that creates a different logjam).

Assuming Vlad has another good year, I’d expect the Red Sox & Mets to be the frontrunners.

darren
1 year ago
Reply to  Matt

That’s true about Yoshida and maybe I should have left him off. But even without him, they have:

–Casas: He’s been a pretty bad first basemen. He probably belongs at DH, but maybe you can keep him at 1B and he’s okay.

–Devers: Even if he manages to stay at 3B for a year or two, he’s eventually moving. I’m optimistic that he can play a good 1B, but that’s about it.

Both are very popular with the fan base, and Casas is young and cheap for a few more years. I just can’t see them moving on from one of these guys just to vastly overpay Guerrero.

Glevin
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I don’t think there’s any chance he beats it dramatically but he could beat it with a great season. Vladdy is already worth tens of millions of dollars so for him, the risk is worth it.

darren
1 year ago

Let’s see, a nominal 3B who bounces back and forth between good and not very good, struggles with his conditioning, and will enter the market at a rather young age? Sounds like Pablo Sandoval. Hope it works out better for Vlad, but it’s scarily similar.

(Also, as noted by sadtrombone, it sounds a lot like Devers.)

Last edited 1 year ago by darren
PhilMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  darren

Sandoval wasn’t a nominal 3B – he was rated quite well there at times. Guerrero is a bad defensive 1B.

Sandoval’s biggest knock going into FA was his durability, he player in fewer than 120 games several times before he hit free agency. Vlad has played in pretty much 98% of the Blue Jays games since he was called up to the bigs.

darren
1 year ago
Reply to  Phil

You’re right, he wasn’t a bad third baseman at that point. My mistake.

Sandoval’s biggest knock going into FA was his durability, he player in fewer than 120 games several times before he hit free agency.

I’m going to disagree on this one, though. He played fewer than 120 games twice, not several times. In the two years before he reached free agency, he played 141 and 157 games, respectively. The biggest concerns about Sandoval was his conditioning (and to a lesser degree, inconsistency from year to year).

For comparison, look at Corey Seager and Bryce Harper. Both had missed considerable time for injury prior to free agency. But both were also able to get 10+ year deals. Giancarlo Stanton missed significant time in both 2012 and 2013, but the Marlins decided to sign him to a 13-year deal after he rebounded in 2014.

SomeCallMeTim
1 year ago

I feel bad for Angels fans already. We all know it’s coming…

PhilMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  SomeCallMeTim

I was thinking he seemed like a perfect Arte Moreno signing. Even if Guerrero’s 2025 ends up looking like 2023, I think his agent could probably get Moreno to throw $300 million at him.

Envy AngelMember since 2017
1 year ago
Reply to  SomeCallMeTim

Or worse, the Angels will trade for him at the deadline by giving away their best three prospects and then fail to sign him, a la Texeira or Greinke.

ackbar7Member since 2020
1 year ago

I don’t think I would want to make this commitment for any first baseman. I’d much rather go for 1-2 year deals on Alonso or Goldschmidt types. It limits the upside somewhat but it also wouldn’t be shocking to see Goldschmidt put up a 4 win season.

FrancoeursteinMember since 2025
1 year ago
Reply to  ackbar7

That’d surprise me, even though I’d love to see it. Goldy’s metrics were not great last year.

OkraMember since 2016
1 year ago

People forget that his career year in 2021 was significantly aided by the minor league parks the Jays played in that year. His HR/FB was 34% at home that year. For his career it’s 18%. So adjust down his career year in ’21 accordingly and he looks like a guy with an even lower ceiling.

He’s a great hitter. But he’s looking for contract that guys who occasionally pop 8-10 WAR seasons get. His ceiling is more like 5-6 WAR. And I see no reason to be optimistic on his future aging. He should already be a DH, is inconsistent, and his extremely groundball rate works against his fantastic power (and guys like him don’t do swing changes). Even if he repeats his 2024 season this year, I’d still pass on giving him a mega contract.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  Okra

I don’t know that it made that much of a difference. They played a little over half the year in that minor league park, right? And aside from that they didn’t play in other minor league parks. He hit pretty well after they came back to Toronto, I think.

But it probably doesn’t matter. He’s more of a 25-35 homer guy than a 40-50 homer guy…there’s a lot of evidence since 2021 that is the case.

darren
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Rogers Center: 152 PA, .294/.368/.566, 10 HR
Sahlen: 98 PA,.321/.418/.762, 10 HR
TD Ballpark: 96 PA, .410/.521/.897, 11 HR

That’s kind of huge: 21 HR, ~365/470/830 in 194 PA.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  darren

Looks like it’s about 50% higher home run rate. Yeah, that is a big difference.

Twitchy
1 year ago
Reply to  Okra

It certainly helped, but he also had a 294/368/566 line at Rogers Centre. That would have likely been between 140-150 wRC+, if not higher. So while he did benefit from hitting in the minor league parks, it was still a pretty elite season. He also had a 143 wRC+ on the road that year.

And he was still better than he was in 2021 this year, without the help of any minors stadiums.

AdamMember since 2017
1 year ago

Vlad’s unpredictable production made him impossible to extend, particularly as a player with easily replaceable defensive value. A year ago he’s looking at an Alonsoesque contract, now, who knows? The front office hasn’t been great but knowing if you are getting 2 or 6 WAR player has made this almost unknowable

Last edited 1 year ago by Adam
KootKatMember since 2021
1 year ago
Reply to  Adam

Vladdy wants to go to a winner but hasn’t won squat himself. Zero playoff wins. Many teams will take this into account and pass. Next winter will be a long one for him.

MCL6104Member since 2018
1 year ago

Can we get a “What would a Vladito trade look like” article? I’m always interested to see how close I value players vs baseball writers/people in the industry. I miss the days of Dave Cameron chats, where he would just respond to trade ideas comments with “that’s a terrible offer” and that’s it.

PhilMember since 2016
1 year ago

Is Vlad Jr actually a much better player than Pete Alonso?

Alonso: 3607PA, 17.3 fWAR
Guerrero: 3540PA, 17.0 fWAR

The two biggest things in Guerrero’s favour are his age and that he’s coming off a 5+fWAR season. In fact, if he repeats last year, he’ll have about as much fWAR heading into free agency as Cody Bellinger.

I do think there is a high chance that he gets paid, because of the name, the relative youth and you can dream on the bat. The Blue Jays offer was both reasonable and one that he wasn’t ever going to accept.

dodgerbleu
1 year ago
Reply to  Phil

Interesting.. IDK if I undervalued Alonso or overvalued Vlad in my head, but they’re a lot closer than I thought.

FWIW..
Alonso: 3607 PA, 19.2 bWAR
Vlad: 3540 PA, 21.5 bWAR

Also, I don’t know how much genetics may come in to play, but it’s worth mentioning that Vladimir Guerrero was worth 2.9 fWAR from age 33 forward. And he was done being elite at 30, and he besides the wonky knees, he seemingly was a safer physical bet..

CC AFCMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  dodgerbleu

Hard to assign any fault to vlad sr there. Montreal astroturf was like playing on a parking lot with a thin rug thrown over it. Who knows how his body would have held up in any other park with grass or modern squishy turf?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  Phil

Vlad Jr just wasn’t good for his first 700 PAs and Alonso was really good. 2021-2024 tells a very different story.

Twitchy
1 year ago
Reply to  Phil

Now compare how they both played at the same age.

Vlad – 137 wRC+, 3540 PA, 17 WAR
Alonso – 138 wRC+, 932 PA, 5 WAR

Vlad was playing in the majors for 2000 at bats more than Alonso was at the same age, and still managed to hit just as well. If I change the qualifier from age 19-25 to 21-25, Vlad goes up to 142 wRC+.

Vlad is without a doubt the better hitter.

AlbyMember since 2025
1 year ago
Reply to  Twitchy

But not so much better that it justifies a $400M contract.

NATS FanMember since 2018
1 year ago

When I look at the blue Jays on this site, I see they already have an in house 2War first basemen waiting to take over for Vladdy in Wageman. So they would need to be able to take the $30 million Vladdy would cost to make up the 2 War lost to him leaving. Plus the loss of 2War of Wageman to the bench. That does seem hard, but not very hard on the surface. 3rd base, right field, and pitching all look like obvious places for upgrades.

CC AFCMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  NATS Fan

Mr. Hegseth, you leave me no choice but to report you have been drinking on the job despite promising not to

Twitchy
1 year ago

The mistake the Jays made was not trading him at the deadline in 2024. They should have taken offers then and pivoted to retooling.

At this point their only option was to extend him, because you can’t let him go to FA. They blew it.

They knew what they were willing to offer, they knew it wasn’t enough, they knew they were the worst team in the East – they should have traded him when they had a chance. It’s too late now.

Uncle SpikeMember since 2020
1 year ago

If Vlad repeats his 2024, he will land a massive contract. The concerns are valid but a 26 year old coming off back to back, 5+ WAR, 160+ wRC+ seasons is going to be the most sought after free agent and we consistently see the top guys get more than we expect. If that were the case, I’ll say he gets 13/$450M.

Youppi!
1 year ago

Je ne sais pas but he can buy beaucoup poutine.

boringdanMember since 2018
1 year ago

There are so many jokes/comments about his body. Has anyone actually watched him the past two years? Guy is jacked as hell.

Glevin
1 year ago
Reply to  boringdan

He definitely has worked hard but he is naturally a very big guy and it gets harder and harder as you age to keep the pounds off.

villapalomaresMember since 2025
1 year ago

Thanks for projectionating. You are the Projectionator. Also Dan the Man.

MentholMember since 2014
1 year ago

I know this article isn’t about Kyle Tucker, but I would totally take the over on his 2026-28 ZIPS projected OPS+ of 127.

TheGarrettCooperFanClub
1 year ago

All it takes is one desperate owner willing to go against the advice of his baseball ops people.

jdbolickMember since 2024
1 year ago

I don’t like player comparisons because they so often lock us into thoughts that don’t necessarily apply, but every time I think about a Vlad contract, I see Mo Vaughn. Vlad is younger, so he probably won’t collapse the instant he hits free agency like Vaughn did with the Angels, but I do expect a precipitous fall in the not too distant future.

Dominikk85Member since 2020
1 year ago

I’m skeptical whether 400+ would be good.

There are some great points in his favor:
1)Young age
2)rare combination of plus power and plus contact ability

However I also see some risk points:

1)big body that has fluctuated in weight before. Will he maintain shape into his late 20s?
2) sometimes struggles to lift the ball enough
3) very bad defense and running already that even loses some value at first

Regarding 2 he already has had better years and even with a 50% GB rate his floor is at like 25 with the chance for way more if he even lifts a little bit but still it has been up and down and his defense is so bad that he is a sub 2 war player when he hits 265 with 25 homers in a bad year.

Obviously he will also have 4-5 win years where he hits 320 with 40 bombs but there is some downside that could get worse as he ages.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think he will be bad due to his power/contact floor but I would feel a lot better at 10/300 than at 12/400.