2022 Trade Value: #21 to #30
As is tradition at FanGraphs, we’re using the lead-up to next week’s trade deadline to take stock of the top 50 players in baseball by trade value. For a more detailed introduction to this year’s exercise, as well as a look at the players who fell just short of the top 50, be sure to read the Introduction and Honorable Mentions piece, which can be found in the widget above.
For those of you who have been reading the Trade Value Series the last few seasons, the format should look familiar. For every player, you’ll see a table with the player’s projected five-year WAR from 2023-2027, courtesy of Dan Szymborski’s ZiPS projections. The table will also include the player’s guaranteed money, if any, the year through which their team has contractual control of them, last year’s rank (if applicable), and then projections, contract status, and age for each individual season through 2027, if the player is under contract or team control for those seasons. Last year’s rank includes a link to the relevant 2021 post. Thanks are due to Sean Dolinar for his help in creating the tables in these posts. At the bottom of the page, there is a grid showing all of the players who have been ranked up to this point.
Now, let’s get to the next batch of players.
| Five-Year WAR | +19.6 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2024 |
| Previous Rank | #12 |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2023 | 28 | +4.3 | Arb 2 |
| 2024 | 29 | +4.2 | Arb 3 |
From 2019 through the ’21 All-Star break, Bieber went on an absolute tear. He racked up 5.5 WAR in 2019, won a Cy Young award for his performance during the pandemic-shortened ’20 campaign, and then backed it up with another 14 sterling starts to begin the ’21 season. Then he hurt his shoulder and made just two short starts the entire rest of the year; he came out in 2022 with slightly reduced velocity. Yikes!
Except, Bieber’s still great. He’s made 18 starts so far this year, and while his strikeout rate is down, he’s still missing a pile of bats while barely walking anyone. And after a few lackluster early-season showings, he appears to be getting some of his velocity back as well. He’s throwing his slider more frequently than his fastball this year, anyway, and that slider is as sharp as ever.
If you want to make your own list, you should feel free to swap anyone between here and Max Fried, because they’re in a similar tier. I’m partial to Bieber’s command and track record; not walking anyone while throwing so many secondary pitches gives me a lot of confidence that his performance is likely to continue. I’m sure that there are teams that would prefer Woodruff to Bieber, or Fried to both, or any mixture of the three, but I had to pick an order and this is the one I’m most comfortable with.
Controllable pitching is great. Getting three postseasons worth of ace-level production would make even the the most devoted prospect hugger in the world excited. If the Guardians decide to blow it up at the deadline – I don’t think they will, to be clear – no prospect in baseball would be off limits. That’s the power of having a controllable superstar, even if it’s only for a few years.
| Five-Year WAR | +12.1 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | $14.0 M |
| Team Control Through | 2026 |
| Previous Rank | HM |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2023 | 28 | +2.9 | $5.3 M |
| 2024 | 29 | +2.7 | $8.8 M |
| 2025 | 30 | +2.6 | $10.5 M |
| 2026 | 31 | +2.2 | $11.5 M |
I’m not super happy with this ranking, but I couldn’t figure out where else to put Lowe, though he bounced up and down this list from 25 to 40 in various iterations. Everyone was losing their minds about Bryan Reynolds not being on the ranked part of last year’s list, but I lost more sleep (still not very much sleep, but some) over leaving out Lowe.
That’s because Lowe is really good! Since his first full season in 2019, his 135 wRC+ is in line with that of Vladimir Guerrero Jr., Ronald Acuña Jr., Trea Turner, Xander Bogaerts, Matt Olson, Shohei Ohtani … I could go on, but you get the idea. We’re talking about serious offensive firepower — maybe not the very best tier of hitters, but certainly in that stratosphere. Despite standing a modest 5-foot-10, Lowe does it with power; his 75 home runs almost sound like a typo, but you can count them up. Does he play good defense? No, but he plays acceptable defense, and at several positions to boot. Lowe is doing all of that on a phenomenally team-friendly deal; he’ll make a combined $14 million over the next two years, and there are two reasonably priced team options after that. Every team could afford his contract, and all he does is produce at an All-Star level clip.
But there are red flags. He missed two months with injury this year, and his game just doesn’t feel like it should work as well as it does. As one team source noted, he has a lot of old-man skills, and that feels tenuous from a projection standpoint. All those past statistics don’t matter for what we expect players to do in the future, and Lowe’s production, for lack of a better way to say it, feels soft.
I’m not sure teams would put Lowe this high on their lists, or at least not most teams. Perhaps this is an overreaction to missing on him last year. But there’s inherent subjectivity in this list, and I’m using mine here. Is Lowe actually one of the top 30 trade chips, or would he be more like the 35th-most valuable player if everyone in baseball were suddenly available? That’s mostly immaterial.
| Five-Year WAR | +12.2 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2025 |
| Previous Rank | #25 |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2023 | 29 | +2.9 | Arb 2 |
| 2024 | 30 | +2.5 | Arb 3 |
| 2025 | 31 | +2.5 | Arb 4 |
Welcome to another episode of “Ben praises Framber Valdez.” Still strangely unheralded in the broader baseball community, Valdez is working on his third straight excellent season, and at this point his sinker/curve arsenal is a proven commodity. Does he walk too many batters? Indubitably! Are the strikeout rates lacking? Again, yes. But that’s all totally fine, because it’s hard to score runs when you can’t get the ball in the air, and his 4.60 GB/FB ratio is the best in baseball by a ludicrous margin. Only one other starter even eclipses 3.00; Valdez’s sinker is on another planet relative to the rest of the league.
Do his grounder-heavy ways limit which teams would be interested in his services? Absolutely. The Astros have a solid defensive infield, which makes his production play up. Put him in front of a leakier group, and you might get a heaping helping of errors and seeing-eye singles. But there are enough teams with good gloves – the Astros are eighth in infield defense this year per Statcast, so there are at least seven teams that make good sense – that there would be a bidding frenzy if he hit the open market. Can you imagine him in front of the Cardinals’ defense? San Diego’s? Valdez would be a fine addition to any team, but there are several where he’d be downright indispensable.
| Five-Year WAR | +16.2 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2026 |
| Previous Rank | – |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2023 | 24 | +2.9 | Pre-Arb |
| 2024 | 25 | +3.2 | Arb 1 |
| 2025 | 26 | +3.3 | Arb 2 |
| 2026 | 27 | +3.5 | Arb 3 |
Now we’re getting to the really good stuff. From here on out (and arguably starting with Valdez, actually), trading for these players is inconceivable in the absence of extreme mitigating circumstances. Kirk is going to be on the Jays for a long time, and he’s one of the best hitters in baseball. Does that sound like someone you might be interested in?
To say that all Kirk has ever done is hit might undersell it. He so clearly outmatched his opponents in low-level minor league play during the 2019 season that the Jays called him up at the tail end of the ’20 season, and as it turns out, he’s plenty good enough in the big leagues, too. Last year was a nice proof of concept – he takes a ton of walks and barely strikes out, which gave him room to underperform his raw batted ball metrics by a country mile and still post an above-average offensive line.
This year, he’s up to the same tricks, only turned up a notch – he has more walks than strikeouts, and he’s hitting the ball with authority to all fields. I don’t think he has a 40-homer season in him – he’s more Tony Gwynn than Barry Bonds – but it doesn’t take a Rhodes scholar to predict that he’ll be a great hitter going forward. He’s also putting up good catching numbers this year. Multiple evaluators I talked to think that if Kirk maintains his current talent level, he’s more top 15 than top 30.
He’s lower than that on this list, though, because the risk is real. He’s built like a bowling ball, and small-sample framing numbers aside, he definitely appears stretched defensively. It’s no accident that Toronto’s favored defensive alignment has Kirk at DH. If Kirk doesn’t stick behind the plate, DH is his only real landing spot; he’s too short for first base and too slow even for an outfield corner. That’s a tremendous drop-off, and it’s a big risk as he ages. It’s pretty clear that he can hit, but plenty of his value is wrapped up in being a catcher and that’s not an inevitable long-term outcome. If he could play an average corner outfield or first base, I’d move him up the list a few spots.
| Five-Year WAR | +28.2 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2023 |
| Previous Rank | #17 |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2023 | 28 | +6.2 | Arb 3 |
Ohtani’s initial landing spot on my list was on a separate list of one titled “Where do you place this guy?” He’s so unlike everyone else in baseball that I simply left him out in the first few iterations to save myself the headache of trying to compare Ohtani to pretty much anyone else. He hits! He pitches! He’s the biggest superstar in the game, a player the likes of whom we haven’t seen in 100 years, if ever.
What does that mean for his value in trade now that he’ll be a free agent after only one more year of arbitration? No idea! If everyone were signed for forever, or if no season after 2023 mattered, Ohtani would be in the top five. Maybe he’d still fetch more in trade than I have him pegged for here. If he does get traded, the team bidding the most for him probably has a high value on him internally, while another team might reasonably decide they couldn’t construct their team around Ohtani’s unique talents.
Every year, we caution readers of this list that it’s mostly not to answer the question “would you trade the player ranked 26th for the one ranked 27th?” That might never be more true than it is this year. Would you trade Ohtani for Kirk? It’s hard to imagine two more different players, and I doubt either team would be interested in making that trade.
If you’re looking at these rankings from a surplus value perspective, Ohtani sticks out like a sore thumb. If you’re looking at them in terms of projected team-controlled WAR, he doesn’t fit. But well, he’s Shohei Ohtani. If you’re just looking for the best player in baseball and you’ll figure the rest out later, Ohtani’s your guy (he’s actually second in my book, but we’ll get to the other guy later).
| Five-Year WAR | +17.1 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2025 |
| Previous Rank | – |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2023 | 26 | +3.6 | Arb 1 |
| 2024 | 27 | +3.7 | Arb 2 |
| 2025 | 28 | +3.5 | Arb 3 |
Webb and Valdez were stacked together for a lot of this exercise, and putting Kirk and Ohtani between them is more out of a desire to break up similar blurbs than anything else. You like groundballs? Webb’s got them in spades, and while he doesn’t get quite as many as Valdez, he makes up for it with fewer walks. Watch him pitch and you immediately get it; he repeats his drop-and-drive delivery precisely, flashes two solid secondaries to complement his sinker, and pitches efficiently, getting deep into outings with regularity.
I don’t think Webb is an elite starter, exactly. His production isn’t on the same level as Bieber’s, to use someone else I’m writing up today. But you get an extra year of Webb, and my goodness is that valuable. He’s done enough to make it clear that he’s an above average starter, a borderline All-Star in any given year. He’s durable, too; I’m not a pitching mechanics expert, but someone whose opinion I trust on this matter mentioned that to me as a positive factor.
The relative scarcity of pitchers on this list is strange, because every team needs more pitching. But that’s because there aren’t a lot of pitchers like Webb – reliable contributors who will be around for a while. If there were more Webbs in the world, there would be more pitchers in the top 50, but offense would be a lot lower. It’s a good thing that good pitching like this is hard to come by, if you want to watch the occasional run.
| Five-Year WAR | +17.7 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | $315 M |
| Team Control Through | 2032 |
| Previous Rank | #7 |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2023 | 30 | +4.5 | $25.4 M |
| 2024 | 31 | +4.2 | $30.4 M |
| 2025 | 32 | +3.7 | $30.4 M |
| 2026 | 33 | +3.1 | $30.4 M |
| 2027 | 34 | +2.2 | $30.4 M |
I didn’t meet in person with any of the people I asked for feedback on this list. Modern living, pandemic times, the preponderance of electronic communication, all of that. But if I had, I think one of them would have done a spit take when they saw Mookie’s spot on the list. He’s signed to a big contract for a long time, and he’s almost 30. If you’re valuing players by tallying up their WAR, tallying up their costs, and comparing the two, Betts would be at the very back end of the list, and that’s after accounting for the fact that some of his salary is in the form of a signing bonus that the Dodgers will owe even if they trade him, which would save an acquiring team roughly $50 million over the life of his deal.
Thankfully, that’s not how baseball works; it’d be a dry and boring world if it did. How good players are matters – quite a bit, in fact – and Betts is in the midst of yet another great season. He’s so smooth and measured at the plate that it’s easy to underestimate his power, particularly taking his size into account. But he has such phenomenal bat control that he maxes out his power quite a lot, which explains the strange confluence of enviable batted-ball metrics without huge maximum exit velocity. It doesn’t hurt that he might have the best sense of the strike zone of anyone in baseball; he swings at an average rate of good pitches and chases at half the prevailing rate, per Statcast.
The biggest risk around Betts is his uncertain long-term outlook, obviously – he’s under contract through 2032 and has battled injuries of late. Trade for him, and you’re accepting some tough years in the indeterminate future, either due to poor performance or lack of availability. That would keep some teams out of a hypothetical Betts sweepstakes; you can imagine an owner flatly saying no to taking on the salary commitment. Of course, a Betts sweepstakes is hypothetical for a reason: the Dodgers aren’t interested in dealing him because he’s Mookie Betts! He’s a key part of their championship aspirations.
In a few years, Betts won’t be on this list. That’s how it goes with long-term deals like this. But when you compare him to Mike Trout, I think the reasons for Betts’ spot here make perfect sense. He’s cheaper, younger, and healthier. If you want to add a current superstar and keep him under contract for a long time, some of the names in the top 10 are your best bet. But if you’re setting your sights lower – still impossibly high, but lower – Betts is the guy you’re looking for.
| Five-Year WAR | +23.6 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2024 |
| Previous Rank | #14 |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2023 | 28 | +5.2 | Arb 2 |
| 2024 | 29 | +5.1 | Arb 3 |
For my money, Burnes is the best healthy pitcher in baseball right now. He’s working on his third straight season with an ERA below 2.50 and averaging more than six innings per start, addressing concerns about how deep he works into games. His pitching style is shock-and-awe, all unhittable cutters and hammer curves. But it’s also precise; his early-career wildness is completely gone, seemingly cured when he changed his pitch mix before the 2020 season.
To the extent that there are nits to pick, they’re basically about how much better he is than the other excellent starters who will reach free agency after the 2024 season. In my estimation, he’s a lot better. This isn’t a Rick Porcello situation, a one-off Cy Young effort by a fine but not excellent pitcher. Burnes leads baseball in pitching WAR since the start of the 2020 season, and that’s true whether you care about FIP-based or RA9-based WAR. He’s not doing it in a fluky way, either; each of his three best pitches are bat-missers that he commands well.
Sure, pitchers break. But teams still sign them and trade for them because elite pitchers are both hard to find and phenomenally valuable. Look no further than Max Scherzer’s current contract to understand what Burnes would get if he were a free agent tomorrow.
| Five-Year WAR | +16.5 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2025 |
| Previous Rank | – |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2023 | 26 | +3.6 | Arb 2 |
| 2024 | 27 | +3.5 | Arb 3 |
| 2025 | 28 | +3.4 | Arb 4 |
No, Braves fans, Riley shouldn’t have won an MVP award last year. Yes, Braves fans, he’s one of the best players in baseball. His early-career scuffles are squarely in the rear-view mirror now, with light-tower power and a solid hit tool combining to make him one of the scariest at-bats in the game.
He’s not one of those mythical hitters with no holes in his swing and he’s prone to a bit of swing-and-miss, so you might think that pitchers could solve him. That’s not how it works in practice. In real life, if you leave a breaking ball over the plate, he’ll hit it to Jupiter. The numbers are so ridiculous that it sounds like I’m making them up: he’s slugging .879 when he puts an in-zone slider into play this year. He covers fastballs on the inner half of the plate, too. Indeed, your best bet against Riley is to beat him with fastballs away and breaking balls out of the zone, but unless you’re Jacob deGrom, that’s easier said than done.
I guess you could say there’s a scouts vs. stats divide on Riley’s value – of the people I talked to, the stats types were higher on him than the scout types – but we’re talking about the difference between an A- and an A here. I think it’s fair to worry that his expansive approach carries some risk of a strikeout-induced decline, and he doesn’t grade out particularly well defensively. But those are small issues, and Riley is one of the players that I’m more likely too low than too high on.
| Five-Year WAR | +18.6 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2025 |
| Previous Rank | #20 |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2023 | 25 | +3.9 | Arb 1 |
| 2024 | 26 | +4.0 | Arb 2 |
| 2025 | 27 | +3.8 | Arb 3 |
Let’s talk about Riley some more. He and Bichette are similar players, power-first infielders with a pile of team control remaining. There’s one big difference: Bichette has been merely okay this year, while Riley is having his best season. Did I mix them up or something?
I didn’t, though I wouldn’t laugh you out of the building for switching them. I think Bichette is going to settle in as a 20%-above-average hitter, worse than I have Riley going forward. But he’s going to do it while playing shortstop and that matters quite a lot. ZiPS concurs, as you can see from the above forecasts, though I’m higher on Riley than the model.
For his part, Bichette is making some adjustments that I think will serve him well. He’s swinging less often, and in particular, chasing less often. So far, that’s cost him against fastballs, but I don’t think that’s a long-term issue because he’s shown tremendous power against fastballs in the past. Forget this year’s numbers — I don’t think pitching coaches are instructing their charges to come after Bichette with in-zone heat.
Right now, Bichette’s arrow is pointing down and Riley’s is pointing up. If they continue on their current trajectories, or replicate this year’s expected statistics ad nauseam, Riley is better. Consider this a statement in favor of regression towards the mean. Or, you know, just a wildly misinformed attempt to place trade value on every player in baseball. Your choice.
| Rk | Pv | Player | Age | 2023 | 2024 | 2025 | 2026 | 2027 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 21 | 20 | Bo Bichette | 24 | +3.9 Arb 1 |
+4.0 Arb 2 |
+3.8 Arb 3 |
||
| 22 | – | Austin Riley | 25 | +3.6 Arb 2 |
+3.5 Arb 3 |
+3.4 Arb 4 |
||
| 23 | 14 | Corbin Burnes | 27 | +5.2 Arb 2 |
+5.1 Arb 3 |
|||
| 24 | 7 | Mookie Betts | 29 | +4.5 $25.4 M |
+4.2 $30.4 M |
+3.7 $30.4 M |
+3.1 $30.4 M |
+2.2 $30.4 M |
| 25 | – | Logan Webb | 25 | +3.6 Arb 1 |
+3.7 Arb 2 |
+3.5 Arb 3 |
||
| 26 | 17 | Shohei Ohtani | 27 | +6.2 Arb 3 |
||||
| 27 | – | Alejandro Kirk | 23 | +2.9 Pre-Arb |
+3.2 Arb 1 |
+3.3 Arb 2 |
+3.5 Arb 3 |
|
| 28 | 25 | Framber Valdez | 28 | +2.9 Arb 2 |
+2.5 Arb 3 |
+2.5 Arb 4 |
||
| 29 | HM | Brandon Lowe | 27 | +2.9 $5.3 M |
+2.7 $8.8 M |
+2.6 $10.5 M |
+2.2 $11.5 M |
|
| 30 | 12 | Shane Bieber | 27 | +4.3 Arb 2 |
+4.2 Arb 3 |
|||
| 31 | 21 | Jake Cronenworth | 28 | +4.0 Arb 1 |
+3.8 Arb 2 |
+3.5 Arb 3 |
||
| 32 | 43 | Freddy Peralta | 26 | +2.8 $3.7 M |
+2.7 $5.7 M |
+2.5 $8 M |
+2.3 $8 M |
|
| 33 | HM | Cedric Mullins | 27 | +3.2 Arb 1 |
+2.9 Arb 2 |
+2.9 Arb 3 |
||
| 34 | HM | Bryan Reynolds | 27 | +3.8 $6.8 M |
+3.7 Arb 3 |
+3.6 Arb 4 |
||
| 35 | 19 | Brandon Woodruff | 29 | +4.1 Arb 3 |
+3.8 Arb 4 |
|||
| 36 | HM | Max Fried | 28 | +4.6 Arb 3 |
+4.4 Arb 4 |
|||
| 37 | 38 | Sean Murphy | 27 | +3.0 Arb 1 |
+2.8 Arb 2 |
+2.7 Arb 3 |
||
| 38 | – | Oneil Cruz | 23 | +2.4 Pre-Arb |
+2.6 Pre-Arb |
+2.7 Pre-Arb |
+2.6 Arb 1 |
+2.4 Arb 2 |
| 39 | – | Dylan Cease | 26 | +3.3 Arb 1 |
+3.3 Arb 2 |
+3.2 Arb 3 |
||
| 40 | HM | Jazz Chisholm Jr. | 24 | +2.2 Pre-Arb |
+2.4 Arb 1 |
+2.5 Arb 2 |
+2.2 Arb 3 |
|
| 41 | 22 | Ketel Marte | 28 | +3.2 $11.6 M |
+3.1 $13.6 M |
+2.8 $16.6 M |
+2.4 $16.6 M |
+1.9 $14.6 M |
| 42 | – | Luis Arraez | 25 | +3.3 Arb 2 |
+3.2 Arb 3 |
+3.1 Arb 4 |
||
| 43 | HM | Pete Alonso | 27 | +4.2 Arb 2 |
+4.2 Arb 3 |
|||
| 44 | 48 | Luis Garcia | 25 | +2.3 Pre-Arb |
+2.2 Arb 1 |
+2.2 Arb 2 |
+2.0 Arb 3 |
|
| 45 | 18 | Zac Gallen | 26 | +2.8 Arb 1 |
+2.7 Arb 2 |
+2.6 Arb 3 |
||
| 46 | – | Ty France | 27 | +3.7 Arb 1 |
+3.3 Arb 2 |
+3.3 Arb 3 |
||
| 47 | 13 | Mike Trout | 30 | +4.9 $37.1 M |
+4.5 $37.1 M |
+3.9 $37.1 M |
+2.9 $37.1 M |
+2.2 $37.1 M |
| 48 | – | Riley Greene | 21 | +2.4 Pre-Arb |
+2.9 Pre-Arb |
+3.0 Pre-Arb |
+3.0 Arb 1 |
+3.0 Arb 2 |
| 49 | 42 | Dylan Carlson | 23 | +2.6 Pre-Arb |
+2.5 Arb 1 |
+2.4 Arb 2 |
+2.3 Arb 3 |
|
| 50 | 32 | Randy Arozarena | 27 | +2.3 Pre-Arb |
+2.1 Arb 1 |
+2.0 Arb 2 |
+1.7 Arb 3 |
Ben is a writer at FanGraphs. He can be found on Bluesky @benclemens.
Hot cup of tea, fresh off the presses Trade Value series, and a nice breakfast before work. This is a good day.
Do you normally eat breakfast after work?
No, but it’s usually me going “oh crap I might be late” and choking down something portable in the car.
I don’t often get to make myself an omelet and enjoy it.
Earlier this year, I saw some data that showed that Cleveland had several starters who had lost significant velocity on their fastballs, relative to prior seasons. Not sure if that’s held up as the season has gone on but Bieber, Mckenzie, and Quantrill are all striking out a lot fewer batters than they have in the past (Plesac’s rate is essentially flat whereas Civale’s is up a little). No clue what’s going on but it’s definitely strange that 3 of Cleveland’s 5 starters have seen their strikeout rate plummet in the same season.
In Quantrill’s case, part of it is a pitch mix change. He’s no longer throwing his slider, throwing his curve about half as much, and also throwing fewer elevated 4-seamers in favor of his sinker and cutter. McKenzie is also easy to parse; he’s throwing in the zone way more this year, so his whiff and chase rates are down.
Thanks, that’s helpful information! I still wonder if the decreased fastball velocity has held up. The data I saw showed that it was everyone except McKenzie.
Quantrill’s velocity has ticked up to almost 95 on his sinker, per statcast game logs, and Bieber has gotten back up to 91-92 rather than 89-90.
I didn’t see the data you are talking about but I do wonder if the shorter spring could have been a factor and as the season went on their pitchers got stronger, maybe even a team philosophy of not over doing it in the early going with such a weird spring.
Perhaps but this was relative to the league. Was something like Bieber, Plesac, Civale, and Quantrill were 4 of the 10 biggest decliners in FB velocity from the prior year. So if it was about the shortened spring training, why was Cleveland affected more than other teams? Wish I could find the info again but it was in a tweet and don’t remember who tweeted the info.
I don’t think Corbin Burnes is the best healthy pitcher in MLB right now. I think he’s probably behind McClanahan and Scherzer, and on the same level as guys like Ohtani and Gerrit Cole. But if he was the top pitcher in MLB I’d think he would be Top 20 easily. Three and a half years of team control of the best healthy pitcher in baseball is…probably the most valuable pitcher in MLB? Unless #2 is someone like Shane McClanahan or Sandy Alcantara.
I’m guessing Shane McClanahan is the top pitcher, with Sandy Alcantara behind him, and then Alek Manoah and Tarik Skubal in some order.
The lack of Tarik Skubal here implies that he is in the Top 20, which would surprise me a bit since he’s a bit of a breakout type. Not as much as being left off entirely, since he definitely belongs on this list, but still surprising. He doesn’t have the certainty of Logan Webb or Framber Valdez but he’s under control for longer, so I’d think he’d be near them.
The more I think about it, the more I think that this area of the list is where I’d put Spencer Strider instead of honorable mention. He’s just been so ridiculously good. I’m not sure I’d take Skubal or Manoah over Strider, although I very well might. Those three are bunched up in my mind.
Is that all the pitchers who could be left? McClanahan, Alcantara, Skubal, Manoah? I guess maybe Gausman but his contract is kind of expensive and he’s on the older side now. Nola, Cole, Wheeler, and Strider were honorable mentions.
With the caveat that I don’t care about the AL and know nothing about Skubal, I think he’s more “probably should have been an honorable mention” than “top 20.” He’s got a great stat line this year and I’m just now learning he was a 60 FV prospect, but none of the projection systems seem bought in on him as an ace just yet.
One guy I’d probably rather have over Skubal – Logan Gilbert. I know the strikeouts aren’t there quite yet but he just seems so polished for a guy in his first full season. Though there probably are some teams that would value Skubal higher because they feel they could do a lot better with him than the Tigers staff has.
I don’t know, the xERA indicates Gilbert might give up more hard contact than his FIP or ERA indicates. Skubal’s stuff is crazy, but he looked like he was going to wind up being a reliever as recently as last year. I think the chances that you could get more out of him are less than the chances he regresses but they do partly balance each other out.
I don’t think Skubal or Gausman make the list. IMO, there’s 17 virtual locks to make the top 20:
Julio
Witt
Adley
Franco
Will Smith
Acuna
Ozzie
Vlad
Manoah
McClanahan
Luis Robert
J Ram
Soto
Tatis
Tucker
Alcantara
Yordan
The last 3 spots are up for grabs. My best guess is Pena, Lux, and Buxton. Other candidates are Hayes, Suzuki, and Nestor. Couple of dark horse candidates could be Varsho, Hoerner and Ward but probably not enough track record there. I’m guessing Altuve and Goldschmidt are too old, expensive and don’t have enough years left on their contracts to justify a spot but I think they would both get a haul.
I think Pena is a lock. I forgot Luis Robert but yeah, he definitely belongs on here. I think Varsho was an HM.
I’d be super surprised if Taylor Ward, Ke’Bryan Hayes, Seiya Suzuki, Nestor Cortes, or Nico Hoerner were Top 20, but I’m also surprised they haven’t been at least HMs so far. Same with Tatis Jr., although for very different reasons; he and Buxton have a lot of good and bad similarities.
You’re right, missed that on Varsho. I also totally forgot that Tatis signed that massive contract. I still think he makes it though.
I’d think Buxton is a case where the contract helps his rating, whereas Tatis is one that hurts his rating.
Buxton is 6 years for $91M with incentives that can earn him up to $11M more each year.
Tatis is guaranteed $330M for 12 years, including $36.7M per for his age 30-35 seasons.
If Tatis continues to get hurt &/or his performance craters due to his injuries, that’s a huge deal & a payroll anchor & GM killer. With Buxton, the risk is just so much less & if you have to pay out more, it’s because he played well.
Tatis is in that category where the contract certainly would limit his market but its more than acceptable to enough teams that the market for his services would still be substantial and it wouldn’t depress his overall return too much.
He falls comfortably into the category, like Betts, of players who are valuable not for surplus value relative to compensation but because of the value of condensing value into a single roster spot. Unlike many of the others in that category, though, he’s got a pretty substantial injury history for a guy with such a short career. That’s a big red flag for that kind of player because the commitment is substantial.
Someone would still do it, but I think the return would be lighter than you’d expect because of the added uncertainty of how much time the guy has missed so early in his career.
I think Hayes is a reasonable potential inclusion. I like the suggestion of Lux: it’s taken a little bit, but the Gavin Lux of 2022 is definitely in the post-hype department, and he’s finally figured some things out and still has a lot of control left.
I am wondering a bit about Hayes. The defense is awesome but I don’t think he’s ever going to be an above-average hitter.
I know that we have speculated about this before, and I downplayed it a bit because the requirements for an elite 3B are different than an elite SS. But maybe next year in training camp they could try Cruz at 3B and Hayes at SS? Just to see what it looks like?
Hayes is frustrating. It seems there is more in the bat, but he can’t get there. Last season was a write off due to the injury, and 2020 looked very fluky and was a small sample. But some of the underlying metrics make me think he should be showing more at the plate. At any rate, it wouldn’t be anything new if the Pirates failed to get the most out of a talented player.
I think they use the off-season to move Cruz to the OF, so there is the off-season to transition. Or they should: Cruz in center, Reynolds in left.
Yeah I dunno I think the approach I would take is that development isn’t linear and guys like Hayes who have a high floor because of the other elements of their game are valuable because they’re very talented and often just one improvement away from unlocking something much more.
Hayes is clearly that kind of talent and he has the floor, so a lot of teams would be glad to find out even if its not there yet. It takes a long time to give up on guys, and it should – look at guys like Byron Buxton or Wily Adames. It can take a long time to figure it out, but the ceiling is worth it.
Everyone remembers Buxton as having health as a red flag for such a long time but we seem to have forgotten that he was also frequently putridly unplayable at the plate interspersed with flashes of greatness. For the first 1000+ PA of Buxton’s career he was a substantially below average offensive player. That doesn’t always happen, but toolbox types with high floors due to elite defense will get a lot of chances and have a lot of value because the cost of finding out is low, the upside if they realize it is very high, and the nature of the athleticism and tools mean that they’re more likely than average to make a breakthrough in the first place.
Hayes is frustrating because it seems like his bat is static, but he’s also accumulated more value in his first 800 career PAs than Buxton did, and he doesn’t have the additional risk factor of awful plate discipline (which Buxton often had, running walk rates that would make Tim Anderson cry). Sure, he’d be more valuable if he had already figured it out, but with that contract, if he’d already figured it out he’d be in the top 5, because he’d be Nolan Arenado at 1/3 the price for most of a decade.
I enjoy Buxton because he’s turned into the most “all or nothing” hitter in the game, given that he strikes out a ton and rarely walks, but does a ton of damage when he does make contact.
I enjoy that because “all or nothing” is usually always stereotyped onto big, slow corner players (and almost always ignored walks/OBP), not premium athletes like Buxton
> The defense is awesome but I don’t think he’s ever going to be an above-average hitter.
Hayes has a career wrc+ 102 as a 25 year old.
List of players who had wrc+ 102 in their age 23-25 season since 2000.
Daniel Murphy
Ozzie Albies
David Ortiz
Aubrey Huff
Curtis Granderson
Coco Crisp
Not bad, huh?
Hayes might not be a true talent league average hitter now, but chances are, he will be.
Hayes is somehow Matt Chapman’s defense and Eric Hosmer’s offense. And I think it’s probably more like his SD offense than his KC offense. Much like Hosmer everyone thinks they can fix him because he has the tools to be an elite hitter but this is probably just who he is. He has his swing path and he can’t unlearn it.
That’s still a very valuable player but not anywhere near the same level as guys like Ramirez.
Buxton and Hayes are locks as they were on the list last year and not on HM.
It’s very possible but I’m not 100% certain that Hayes is a lock. Outside of his 95 PA MLB debut in 2020, he’s got a wRC+ somewhere in the low 90’s between AAA/MLB from 2019 to present. There’s definitely some serious questions about his bat. On the other hand, he’s an elite defender and on a great contract. The defense gives him a high floor with many teams will like so perhaps he makes it.
If Hayes does make it that means Lux is left off and doesn’t even get an HM. His track record is short and the power hasn’t really developed yet but he’s still just 24 and having a great year. Playing up the middle with 4 years of team control, I think there would be a long line for his services but the more I look at it, the more he doesn’t necessarily fit in the top 20.
There are a lot of guys who I’m pretty confident would have been an HM if Ben had thought of them. To this list, I’d add Willy Adames and Hoerner of “I thought they’d at least be an HM”. For Adames, I’m honestly a little surprised he’s not on the main list.
Regardless of whether they should be locks, I think everyone on last year’s list who wasn’t an HM or on the “dropped out of the top 50, not an HM list” has to be on the list just as a matter of logic. Unless Ben overlooked them!
Dunno if Tatis’s full no-trade clause through 2028 affects his place on the list. Didn’t Kershaw get kept off the list or knocked down because of a clause that if he was traded he could opt out after a year?
That kind of clause is quite a bit different than a no trade clause because, with a no trade, once the player has approved the deal you still know you’re getting them for the duration and further you know they were alright with coming there in the first place.
An opt out reduces the amount of time you get the player and directly degrades the return just like a shorter contract length or player option would (for instance, Arenado to the Cardinals)
It’s these 17 and Peña, Hayes, and Buxton.
I’m surprised Goldschmidt didn’t make the list and shocked he wasn’t even mentioned in HM, but I can’t see any of these 20 not making it and most of them are locks as they were on the list last year and not in the HM article.
I think right now I’d take Alcantara if you let me take any single starter. He has the best blend of track record, relative age, and injury history of high-performing SP.
Of course, that could change tomorrow. He’s a pitcher.
But given the circumstances, I’d take Alcantara’s advantage in length of track record over McClanahan and in health and reliable availability over Scherzer, Bieber and deGrom. He’s basically at the sweet spot where I think he’s the high end pitcher you could feel most comfortable about having available and in the vicinity of this level of performance for the longest time going forward. You just always have to remember that still means a 25 or 30% chance that he suffers a major injury anyway because Pitchers Break, Always.
I don’t think you can exactly go wrong with any of McClanahan, Burnes, or Alcantara here if you’re looking at all of team control / contracts, current health, current performance, age and room for growth or decline, etc. I’m in on McClanahan because he’s pitching like an absolute crazy person right now and he’s essentially still a rookie (not technically, I think, but he’s not far off from it). But I can definitely see arguments for the others.
This might sound crazy but other than for compensation purposes (arbitration), I’ve started to discount value in the exact length of team control for pitchers because the probability that they’re healthy far into the future is abysmally bad. Yes, sometimes they’re Kershaw in his 20s or Scherzer, but man that stuff is an aberration. The only thresholds that matter are “this year vs next couple” and then “how many seasons would he have left after a TJS rehab?”. The probability that any of them is healthy until they reach free agency is pretty damn low, and the bigger question is whether you think there’s any signs of imminent breakage or whether you are only enduring the constant, unavoidable reality that any pitcher might get injured on any given pitch no matter how sound and healthy and durable he’s been previously.
I think we can recognize the exceptions only in hindsight right now.
Which is to say I think the difference between anything over 3 years is negligible and barely worth considering. The odds that today’s dominant starter is healthy and still good in 6 years are very low.
Just for giggles I took a look at 2017-2018. Here’s a list of the best pitchers 25 and younger at that time who put up at least 5 wins over that 2 year stretch:
Severino
Nola
Snell
Marquez
Freeland
Berrios
Foltynewicz
Trevor Williams
How many of those players would you want in a playoff rotation today? 2 or 3? (Nola, Berrios, and maybe Snell?)
The odds that McClanahan or Alcantara are significant assets by the end of their team control years are not in their favor.
Those guys are in fWAR order, too, so as you see it isn’t a particular benefit to be towards the top. Being better didn’t make them less likely to encounter problems.
Skubal is having a great breakout year but I doubt he’ll be higher. The rankings are consistent in favoring proven track record over guys in the midst of their breakout years.
Some guys that I’m increasingly surprised weren’t honorable mentions. Maybe they just got left off, but I sincerely doubt any of these guys are Top 20, despite how awesome they are right now.
-Aaron Judge
-Paul Goldschmidt
-Nolan Arenado
-Freddie Freeman
-Byron Buxton
But at the same time, I would think that all of them deserve a mention. I would expect that teams would be quite interested in them if they were available, even with them being expensive and having considerable risk (or in Judge’s case, being a rental).
EDIT: Also Nico Hoerner, who is pretty unproven and has major injury concerns but is having a great year.
Also, I’m surprised that Willy Adames hasn’t been on the list or an HM yet already. I suppose you could make an argument for him being in the Top 20 but he seems like he’d clock in somewhere in between Bo Bichette and Jake Cronenworth.
Arenado has the opt out after this year which essentially makes him a rental w/o the lack of long term risk, so worse. Judge is also a rental. No rentals make these lists. I think Goldschmidt makes the list and Buxton does, too. I agree Freddie should have been HM or really maybe somewhere on the backend of this list.
I got thrown for a loop that Judge wasn’t included with the HMs, but only because DeGrom WAS included. That’s the surprising part – that there was one player who was included despite being eligible for FA this year.
I’m not at all surprised Judge isn’t mentioned. Can’t remember the last time they bothered to mention a pure rental; I think regular readers here understand quite well that teams these days refuse to pay very much for two months of even a great player.
Yeah, I came here to say either Nico Hoerner is ranked surprisingly high, or he is a major oversight. Dude has been worth 4.5 fWAR in his last 126 games, 5 fWAR in his last 609 PAs.
I think Buxton might be on the next list. The rest of these guys are great but either 1) at least potentially FAs after this year (Judge, Arenado) or 2) very well compensated 1Bs already in their mid-30s.
How much trade value could Freeman possibly have? If other teams wanted him at the price the Dodgers are paying him, they would have signed him a few months ago.
To head off any questions later: Skubal should have been an honorable mention. He got left on the cutting room floor because I meant to put him into one of the HM groups, but he didn’t fit into any, and I just missed him when double checking. To me he’d be fine at the back end of the 50 or just off it, I’m not completely sold on him just yet. Could be I’m overweighting past years, I don’t think he’d look out of place on the list or anything.
Thanks! IMO, I’d put him in the 20s or 30s on this list. He’s a good example of a guy who can regress a lot and still be a super-valuable player.
Ben, how dare you be human and make a mistake!
Now the more pertinent question – would you trade Skubal straight up for Bryan Reynolds?
Position players that likely are almost guaranteed to be left (probably this makes up most of the Top 10):
-Julio Rodriguez
-Ronald Acuna
-Jose Ramirez
-Juan Soto
-Yordan Alvarez
-Kyle Tucker
-Vlad Jr.
-Ozzie Albies
And some others who seem very, very likely to be in the Top 20:
-Will Smith (the catcher)
-Jeremy Pena
-Bobby Witt Jr.
-Wander Franco
-Adley Rutschman
Them, plus the four pitchers I listed in an earlier comment (McClanahan, Alcantara, Manoah) minus Skubal (who Ben says isn’t on it), takes it only to…15?
Hayes & Robert for sure are two more. And as I said above, I’d think Goldschmidt and Buxton, too. Which would still leave one as Skubal is officially off.
Robert is a lock in my mind. Hayes and Goldschmidt are on the bubble but I have them just missing it. I think Buxton makes it along with Lux. Also, I’m guessing Tatis was an inadvertent admission.
Duh, and Tatis. I think that’s the 20. Yours minus Skubal plus these five.
Many of these are locks as they were on the list last year and not in HM, like Buxton and Hayes.
Edit: Tatis and Robert also on last years list so are locks. The only question mark among my five guys is Goldschmidt. It would be weird to not even mention the front runner for NL MVP, right?
Someone suggested Tatis Jr. which I also would also be quite wary of. But he almost has to be on it, since he was on it last year and I don’t believe he was an HM.
Tatis Jr. and Buxton are increasingly looking like similar sorts of talents, which scares me.
I mean, barring an editorial error, he is on the list. They list everyone who falls off in the HM section, or at least purport to do so. Tatis lead MLB in WAR in 2020 and 2021. He is just such a crazy player to peg in this, considering his talent, contract, and track record (the ungodly good performance, but also the many injuries).
Are we really sure Hayes will be on the list? His top ZiPS projection is for next year at 2.5 WAR. I get that he’s a good/great value, but I don’t think his ceiling is high enough to be top 20.
We are sure. He was on it last year and wasn’t in HM. They list everyone who falls off in HM.
Unless Ben missed one!
I just can’t see valuing a guy who’s projected at exactly 100 wRC+ and derives literally all of his value from defense at a non-premium position and positional adjustment as a top-20 trade asset. I sure wouldn’t want to pay a huge price for that.
$9m a year forever for a 2-ish WAR player just isn’t all that attractive, even before you consider that outlier defensive metrics should be viewed skeptically and that his defense is very likely to only get worse.
Is he really significantly better than Brandon Drury or Wilmer Flores or Gio Urshela or whatever pretty OK 3B you can take your pick of every offseason? How could anyone justify putting him ahead of Austin Riley?
The contract is insanely team friendly and the league average bat/great defense is good/great value for that contract, but he is an offensive breakout away from being a candidate for a top-3 spot on this list. You get a pretty good expected floor on his value but apparently plenty of people see potential in his bat.
I guess I don’t see the potential. He’s hit 10HR over his last 800PA and has a .109 ISO. His best offensive performance outside of a fluky 95PA in 2020 driven by a .450 BABIP is a 129 wRC+ in AA in 2018. He’s in his age 25 season, so he’s not so young that you can just assume he’ll improve.
Someone would really, really have to sell me on why they think he can become an impact hitter to get me to trade multiple high end prospects for him.
He is averaging about 4 WAR per 162 games and that is without making any improvements to his hitting but he also hits the ball very hard and very often with a 90th percentile max exit velocity and 88th percentile average exit velocity even a small improvement could put his floor at a 5 WAR player
I question whether that contract is “insanely team friendly” as well. Why is it team friendly? The article on it this spring thought it was about fair – 15 WAR over the 8 years of the contract from 2023-2030. You get a discount on a per-WAR basis, but that’s mostly for committing to another 8 years.
The only way to get it to insanely team friendly is to bake in huge offensive improvements. Hayes could certainly improve and become a star, but guys in the top 20 shouldn’t be banking on the elusive swing change to unlock their power.
If he is in the top 20, I’ll be very interested to watch Ben try and justify why his ZiPS projections undersell him, because if you believe his projections he just isn’t that good.
The contract is already going to be inherently team friendly because of basic baseball economics, but Zips pegged it at an additional 10% off even factoring in those advantages. I was mostly talking about the first part, but the second part matters, too. And I don’t know where you are seeing his projections as bad? He’s right now at 2.3 WAR for the season and projects for 1.4 more. His projection right now is as a 3.6 WAR/600 plate appearance player. That’s based on Depth Chart. Zips sees him getting 1.3 WAR in 49 games ROS. That is a 4 WAR player.
The article for this spring is old and also for some odd reason projected him at 464 plate appearances this year and only going down from there. That’s not a sold piece of evidence to be using now, in my opinion. Is there any basis for his low projected plate appearances?
ZiPS is always low on plate appearances – I think it assumes injury in some year.
The 10% underpay is based on bad math by Jay – somehow he gets 21.9 WAR over 8 years of the contract, and if you add up all the WAR in the ZiPS table there’s 17.8 over 9 years.
Anyway, it doesn’t change anything in my eyes. Hayes is being paid fairly for the player he is, and you have to really believe in an offensive breakout to think he’s a huge value. There’s nothing in his pro career stats that demonstrates such a breakout, so you have to believe it based on scouting. I’m not there, at least not to the point where I’d pay full price for a breakout that’s still entirely speculative. When he puts up 500PA of 130 wRC+ let’s talk about putting him in the top 20.
I’m getting moderately excited for the placement of one Will Smith. Only one less year of control, nearly identical career results at the plate over twice as many PAs? He’s going to be the highest-ranked catcher on this list for sure.
Man is the fact that he was not an all-star either of the last two seasons increasingly ridiculous.
I think Adley might beat him out since he’s going to be hitting arb when Will Smith hits free agency and they have fairly similar 3-year ZIPS projections, but it wouldn’t shock me if they were flipped.
Every year, we caution readers of this list that it’s mostly not to answer the question “would you trade the player ranked 26th for the one ranked 27th?” That might never be more true than it is this year. Would you trade Ohtani for Kirk? It’s hard to imagine two more different players, and I doubt either team would be interested in making that trade.
Literally my first thought was “Jays should trade Kirk for Ohtani” Get a LH bat in the line-up and solve some pitching woes, sell high on Kirk in case he doesn’t stick at catcher (Jays have Jansen and Moreno coming). Make it happen.
This is why I don’t run teams.
This would actually be an outstanding trade for both sides, but the Angels will never do it because it would be too embarrassing.
a challenge trade of body types
Also Ohtani is a money generating machine, especially for a team that is truly lacking in any other sort of appeal.
I know this is a value chart based on actual baseball skills, but if you factor in all the other stuff then Ohtani even on a $400mil deal may be #1 in the trade value chart
Probably not #1, because it’s not like the other guys at the top of the list are marketing slouches either and they’re under control for longer so more marketing opportunities.
But you could see Ohtani getting a pretty big boost if you took that into account. He’s certainly more marketable than, say, Ozzie Albies.
I’m simultaneously pleased and surprised to see Kirk on the list. I originally thought he was going to be left off but felt he was deserving. But now I’m wondering what type of trade market he would actually have. I have to think that his body type would be a huge red flag to a lot of teams. Luckily he’s still young and his contract run through his age 27 season. You would hope that he can stay productive through that time but it’s hard to say. I think Pablo Sandoval is the best comp for him. He had amazing, 5+ win seasons at 22 and 24, slowed down but was still productive at ages 25-27 with 2, 2.4 and 3.2 WAR respectively and then fell off a cliff after that with three consecutive negative WAR seasons. Perhaps some teams would think they could get his conditioning in order and see more potential but I think the majority are already discounting future returns at a pretty steep price.
Bieber – Can’t help but notice that he’s become a Slider-first pitcher, and perhaps this is purely anecdotal, but that worries me after watching Patrick Corbin become a Slider-first pitcher who enjoyed a couple years of success before his arm was shot. Bieber’s velocity is down, his K% is *way* down. Maybe a team can convince themselves that he’s got surplus short term value, but no way would I be looking to do anything beyond 2024 with him.
Webb – His surface stats and most peripherals look great but I wish his strikeout rate wasn’t down by two ticks. I’m not a pitching wonk so I can’t tell you if it’s his pitch mix or pitching from the stretch or whatever, and maybe I’m nitpicking, but still.
I think Goldschmidt and Freeman should have at least gotten their own little category in the HM post: Great First Baseman that are a Little Too Old.
But seriously, they are both near the top of the WAR leaderboard, and it’s not as if these are dead-cat bounces. For Goldschmidt, yes he is turning 35 this fall, but here it is almost better that there are only two additional years. How much risk is really there? Even a worse-than-average decline the next two years would still leave him in the good-to-great range.
And Freeman? He’s almost 33 but honestly please tell me where there is any proof that he isn’t still in his prime? Hell, he’s even picked up “above average base runner” as a skill this year. When a player like Freeman signs that six year deal, there is always the fear that he’ll start dropping off faster than expected. Instead, nothing. Same as ever. That resets the baseline somewhat and to me, considering the Dodgers were able to swoop in and make a good deal after the Braves botched it, that contract has a lot of surplus value and tons of teams would be lining up to trade for Freeman.
Do teams line up to trade for these guys? When was the last time you thought a player over 33 get a high level prospect in a trade?
I think you underestimate how much being paid $30+mil/yr hurts trade value even for great players. At the very least you exclude all the cheap teams from even considering a trade, so the bidding is more limited by default. Whereas even the Rays or the As when they contend can bid on a pre-arb guy even if he’s more of a 2-3 war projection guy.
Until recently, guys like this we’re signing 8-10 year contracts that seemed to go south quickly. Joey Votto was still a very good player in his mid-30s, but his contract was still maybe above water because he’s paid until he’s 40.
Also, the FG staff perspective has changed since then and they’ve talked about how surplus value is not the be-all-end-all.
All true, but with Freeman, I look at it like this. Just this off-season, the dodgers were the highest bidder on his services. No other team wanted to give him the contract the dodgers gave him (I’m ignoring the Casey Close drama for a second cause I don’t think we know the truth of that). Is he any more valuable today than he was when he signed that contract? Even if you were to say yes because he’s shown he’s not at a decline stage yet, it’s a very marginal increase and probably offset by the fact that he’s now older.
So, if no one else was willing to give him that contract 4 months ago, are they going to give anything of substantial value to get him at that contract now?
Indeed, I love Freddie Freeman and will forever be heart-broken that he and the Braves couldn’t find a way to make him a Brave for Life. But trade value and on the field value are not the same thing. Risk is something that will diminish trade value, and 6 year commitments to 32 year old Sluggers carry inherent risks.
Are you talking about Aaron Judge?
Yeah, I think that’s how I’d view it if I were a GM, but I do think Freeman would have definitely gotten more if it weren’t for the lockout and the drama with the Braves, and also not only has he not declined, this could very well be his highest WAR season. If you reset his baseline up one half win instead of down one half win, that basically translates to 5 more WAR over the next five years (yes, I realize this isn’t exactly true, but rough edges it is).
I’d think the combo of the less-than-expected contract and then the amazing year he is having would put him on this list. Comparing him to Betts, yes, with Betts you are getting 3 younger years, but you are also getting more old-man years and the commitment is double what Freddie is owed. Double! I wouldn’t trade a ton for Freeman myself because I feel like I’d be a slave to surplus value, but if that isn’t the case for many, Freeman is as good a case just about as others like him owed a lot of money for their 30s (like Betts and Trout).
I’m not sure which contracts you’re talking about here. 8-10yr FA signings recently have been Cole, Seager, Harper, Machado, and Hosmer. Hosmer’s the outlier but everyone else produced pretty well. If anything Harper has outperformed his contract and yet no one is going to put him in the top 50 trade value chart.
I’m talking about for first basemen in their 30s. Freeman and Goldschmidt’ contracts only carry them through their mid-30s (37 and 36 respectively). They don’t have that almost-guaranteed massive downside on the backend that Pujols, Cabrera, and Votto had (even had Pujols and Cabrera not cratered, expecting them to produce the last few years of those contracts would be stupid).
Edit: also, not to be pedantic, but it does matter a little, neither Goldy or Freddie is even at $30m AAV. Goldy is $27.5m and Freeman is a little less than that if you factor in the deferment and look at actual value.
It’s the first year of Freeman’s deal, so I would think he, the Dodgers, and most all of us weren’t looking for decline, *this year*.
I think they were, or at least it is baked into his contract. Otherwise, he’d have justifiably wanted a lot more money. He’s getting paid like a 3-WAR player on average, based on being better than that, but declining, the first 3 years to make up for the last 3 years.
On the whole, players decline from age 31 to 32. If Freeman were 28 and had the same numbers 2016-2021, he’d have gotten so, so, much more. Anticipating decline (as very likely) is why he got less.
I get that Mookie is still really good, and for the next few seasons will justify if not exceed his high salary. But I don’t understand how you can put that contract on a list of the players with the biggest trade value. Honest question – if the Dodgers were to trade him, do you really think he would get them a similar return as the others around him on this list?
I would be worried about that .338 OBP.
I don’t think there is anything to worry about as far as Mookie’s production goes. I’m just pointing out that it doesn’t make sense to me that his contract has roughly the 24th most surplus value in baseball. Doesn’t that imply he left a ton of money on the table? Corbin Burnes, ranked one spot ahead of him has somewhere around $50 million in surplus value, if not more, no? Does this mean Mookie left that much money on the table by signing that deal?
Ben’s been explicit that this is not a pure surplus value ranking, and that there are teams who are willing to give up players in return for the chance to pay a star market rate.
Is that true though? What evidence is there that star players being paid roughly their market value net something good in return? The only one that comes to mind right now is Stanton to the Yankees, and that didn’t get them much.
There’s two kinds of value
There’s raw surplus value, ie $/war stuff.
For contending teams, there’s also condensation/roster slot value. You see this for teams like the Cardinals a lot: every player is average, but they struggled for years to condense all those average players I to actual stars, so it was hard to upgrade. The Cardinals finally have those guys now, but this phenomenon exists for all teams. It’s great if you have a Shohei Ohtani who is both or a Juan Soto type whose so good that even at max contract dollars he’s got surplus value, but that’s not that common.
Players like Betts maintain high value by their ability to condense value into one slot. A lineup full of 2.5 win players has a cap around 85-88 wins. The guys who allow you to get 6 or 7 from one spot tend to be paid and still be worth it they’re so few in number you can’t count on getting one who is also cheap and they don’t stay cheap long in arbitration.
Even for a contract that might be underwater at the back, if there’s significant value condensation available on the front and that’s when you’re competing for championships the player is very valuable to you. A Betts or Trout type player is valuable even at market rates because of this effect. There’s just such a small handful of dudes who can be reliably expected to give you 5+ wins and they’re the only meaningful way to raise your ceiling once your team is average at every position.
This is why the model you see for perpetual contenders like the Dodgers and Yankees and Astros is to focus on developing the 2-3 win guys internally and pay for the 5-6s. You can’t reliably develop them. You save money on the surplus value of young, average to above average players and parlay that savings into paying retail for stars.
But where is the evidence that teams will *pay* for that? I am not saying there aren’t any teams that would be willing to trade for Mookie. But I haven’t seen any evidence that a team will pay a *premium* for Mookie, the way they are paying a premium for the guys around him on this list. The Yankees traded for Stanton right in the prime of his career, coming off an MVP season, and it didn’t cost them much in terms of prospects because he was already paid so much. Was it a good trade? Absolutely! But that doesn’t make him one of the most valuable trade pieces.
He’s at his lowest his lowest xWOBA since 2017, his sprint speed has tanked (44th percentile, 0 bolts in 2021 or 2022), I would be a bit worried about his production. Although 4.5 WAR projected for 2023 already isn’t that optimistic.
Mookie probably shouldn’t even be on the list.
I kinda agree. Mookie will continue to be an excellent player and hitter, but when he was putting up really crazy seasons, he was elite on the bases and on defense, and those things have already peaked for him. A 140 wRC+ is still a great player with averageish corner defense and baserunning, but that’s not the 7 WAR a year superstar he was.
It’s funny because there is a website “Baseball Trade Values” which claims that Betts is the 3rd worst contract in all of MLB after Strasburg and Rendon.
Part of that discrepancy might be how to think about the signing bonus (~$50M) and the deferral ($115M from 2033-2044).
So if you assume Dodgers pick up the tab for those, then Betts (age 30-39) at $216M/10 years is a hell of a bargain.
If you assume Dodgers are responsible for the signing bonus and the deferrals in the past seasons only, then $265M/10 years is still significantly lower than what he would get as a free agent. (cf. Rendon got $245M/7 years starting from his age 30 season)
The 50 million takes him from 3rd worst to 6th worst.The deferrals would supposedly “be eliminated and the money would be due in each season the contract covers.” per AP, so a mini poison pill which hurts his trade value. The Dodgers aren’t paying the deferrals either way though if he’s traded.
Ben’s take just seems way off. Not sure how you can look at a 2.2 WAR projection in 2027, know you have to pay the guy $145million over 5 years more after that year, and say he has a lot of trade value.
As is mentioned, the unique structure of Mookie’s deal with $50 million in a signing bonus covered by the Dodgers is pretty important. If you think his contract is a fair market deal, there should be $50 million in surplus value at the time of signing which is a lot.
Yeah, Mookie is at best a very inconsistent pick. Don’t understand how that contract makes it while all the other guys in his category (top performers/big contracts/not super healthy anymore) are either much lower or left off entirely.
Stats guys versus scouts guys? Why is this a consideration? Are there actually people still trying to pick apart Austin Riley’s game? Once a player reaches the majors the only thing that counts is how is the player playing. Austin Riley is second only to Paul Goldschmidt in the NL MVP race this year. What more can he be asked to do? More reason to question the quants. Austin Riley has a well-deserved 4.5 bWAR, a 4.3 fWAR but an absurd 2.1 WARP. Until there is reasonable uniformity it is all questionable and defensive metrics are worse. I have had more than enough of the Monte Harrison’s, Jo Adell’s, Blake Rutherford’s and a myriad of other touted stiffs. Dick Vitale had a great phrase for these guys in a basketball context. He called them the All-Airport team. They looked great in suits but couldn’t play a lick. While drafting teenagers is obviously a crapshoot once the players have shown enough to reach Double-A give all the players the same opportunity and then wait until they show who is Jeff McNeil and who is Mickey Moniak. I see the Marlins called up J.J. Bleday today. What do you think the chance would be that a player hitting .228 with a 33% K rate in Triple-A would be called up if had been selected in the 13th round instead of being the #4 overall pick in 2019. Barely above 0.000% would be a good guess. Perhaps the reason teams are so averse to taking a chance is that they don’t really know who can play and who can’t until it is too late and once they find out that somebody has real ability the player is untradeable except for financial reasons.
More reason to question the scouts, you mean. The quant guys were the ones highest on him.
I may have not made myself clear. With the development of radar guns and advanced metrics I see scouts as mere offshoots of the attempt to completely remove the eye test from player evaluation. I am a huge believer in performance over projection, McNeil and Monte Harrison again. I have no problem looking at the box score and if the player is raking I could care less whether he wraps the bat like Julio Franco or not. I have a new favorite example and that is John Schreiber. It took one look, and I said it here, that what he was throwing up there wasn’t going to be hit very often. Even if he redefined himself why wasn’t he on the Red Sox roster from opening day, because preconceived opinions blocked proper evaluation.
The whole point of the article is forward-looking. How are these guys going to play for my team if I trade for them? How is the guy I’m trading away going to perform? We use the past to make our best guesses about the future, but stats guys and scout guys may value different aspects of how an individual’s play is going to project going forward. Feels like you’re missing the whole point of… this website?
I didn’t know that you had to believe in sabermetrics to enjoy the conversations here at Fangraphs as I have for several years . I personally think that most quantitative analysis is of some, but, limited value. I don’t need a computer to tell me that Willie Mays or Mickey Mantle were good when I watched them play throughout my youth. Does anybody need a computer program to tell them that Austin Riley is one of the best players in the game right now. I hope not. If a projection came out tomorrow and guessed that he wasn’t going to age well and go into decline before he reached 29 year would you believe that or your eyes, and then be forced to make decision on that information? As you said “we use the past to make our best guesses about the future” and the key word is clearly guesses. I prefer to make those choices, guesses if you will, based much more heavily on what I see than what the program throws at me. I have followed baseball very closely for over 70 years and knew that on base percentage had value before Moneyball ever came out. My eyes told me that John Schreiber had major league stuff after one look and it probably didn’t take much more than that to see that Franchy Cordero does not belong in the major leagues. Where were the quants and what were they seeing? Were they captivated by his size, his arm, his remarkable speed for a big man or was it that power that never manifests itself, all the while he is dropping routine pop flies, missing throws to first and showing very little ability to make contact. When FRAA and OAA and UZR and DRS all paint different pictures, often starkly different, of who can play defense and who can’t I think it makes sense to discard them all until some type of consensus emerges. There is so much that goes into this great game and I think it is a huge mistake to place a computer program in the place of the greatest computer of all, the human mind.
I’m glad you are enjoying your membership at FanGraphs.
It’s plainly obvious that Austin Riley is a great player right now, and Ben places him amongst the most valuable players in the game while in his arbitration years. He’s 25, 6-3 / 240, with already declining defense. Would I be surprised if ZiPS told us that 3rd basemen with that body type and poor defense typically fall off a cliff at age 29? No! And if I was being asked about giving him an 8 year contract today, I would certainly take that information into account.
I thought we, the baseball fans at large, had already settled this. No one is trying to replace the human brain, only trying to augment our understanding.
Was your first look at John Schreiber occur when he was a member of the Red Sox? Or when he had a 6.28 ERA for the Tigers? How do you think they decided to acquire him?
Very likely, some combination of in-person scouting and pitch data metrics told the Red Sox their player development team might have a chance to help him unlock a new level of performance. The computer models that helped the Red Sox choose to acquire him were developed by humans based on hundreds of other successful pitches/pitchers. The “major league stuff” you saw was a byproduct of collaboration between dozens of humans leverage incredible amounts of data via *drumroll* computer programs. It’s not a binary choice!
I would take WARP with a big grain of salt my friend. The DRA/DRC components are such a black box that I’m not sure how to interpret outliers like Riley’s (indeed, all the 2022 Braves hitters look low via WARP).
(almost everyone looks low in WARP if it isnt what you’re used to, because it in general is more conservative about how valuable players are. This isn’t limited to the Braves, it just attributes more of the outcome of baseball plays to luck/variance than other metrics do in general)
The black box nature of BP stats can be frustrating, but it’s also true that A: most of us lacks the statistical training to understand the inputs if they were provided to us and B: the work and testing they do and the results it shows regarding future predictiveness are generally scientifically sound and good processes for that analysis.
Part of the function of that kind of multivariable regression is that it doesn’t tell you WHY these things matter to the degree it finds, it just finds what balance makes for the most accurate long term predictions. This is not well suited for consumption by people who aren’t statisticians.
I agree completely, but that is my point. I find the gross variations between all quantitative analysis to be in much too wide a range to base a realistic value judgment on any of them. Do we really need a printout to tell us who is good and who isn’t. The game has changed considerably since I started to watch when we got our first TV in 1949. I probably listened to Vin Scully broadcast his first game, with Red Barber and Connie Desmond on WOR channel 9 and I know I listened to his last one. During this time the players have grown, are more athletic and have honed their skills to a sharper edge. Whether that has made the game better is for another discussion but it is still a pitcher throwing a 9 inch in circumference baseball from 60’6″ to a batter who is standing next to a 17 inch wide piece of rubber. The trained eye didn’t need a radar gun to measure pitch speed, hit for power, had a strong arm or could run like a deer. Advanced metrics have probably added knowledge about the nuances of the game, in fact I am certain that they have, but in ways that effect the game in the ways almost too hard to see. The arm of the right fielder and his ability to prevent the runner from going to 3rd on a hit or a fly ball is meaningful but does it affect what we are watching? I think not but it is what the computer can add to the teams preparation. It is this part of baseball and so many similar small points, important to the outcome, certainly, but not so obvious as to change the basics of the game. After the top 1 or 2 for the list of top players at all positions will be dramatically different year after year. Take 3rd base for example. In my opinion the top 5 presently are Devers, Riley, Ramirez, Arenado and Machado but Bregman, Rendon, Chapman and others could be in the mix. It is a guarantee that the list of BWAR, will look very different in 2023 than 2022. It doesn’t take sabermetrics to wonder if the Angels looking at another Pujols situation with Rendon but he might bounce back. No program can predict that.
” It also features two players who are listed consecutively but who might be the most dissimilar good players in baseball today.”
When I saw Kirk at #27, my very first thought was “Triston McKenzie is #26??”
Triston McKenzie needs to spend the offseason with my grandma eating biscuits and gravy every morning for breakfast.
And a mentor to show him how it’s done!
Nest Cortes has 3 years of team control remaining and I’m struggling to think of any reason why he’s not on these lists, even as an honorable mention.
Probably because people still aren’t sure whether to trust the results. He doesn’t have overwhelming stuff.
Doubt the NYY trade NC for Shane Bieber (same age, same fastball velocity). SB has better whiff%, but worse results on contact. SB has a better slider, but with more injury risk (shoulder injury last year). NC has a much better fastball, and much better results on contact. Both command the ball.
In terms of stuff; I’d say they are about the same right now.
Nestor is a lefty though; more valuable for the Yankees.
Where the hell is Nico Hoerner? Kid is raking and playing great defense.
Might be a bit OT I find it kind of sad (for the players) that we, as an industry, now start looking at 29 & 30-year old players as being either “in decline” or close to it. I suspect that one of the side-effects of the “PED era” was that whatever was going on allowed players to routinely maintain high levels of performance well into their mid-late 30s. We would look at a 31 or 32-year old and be like “he’s got 5 or 6 more good years on him!”. But these days we’re like “Oh, he’s 28, ZiPS says he’s going downhill soon.” And as a corollary, you wonder what the HOF is going to look like in 20 years, seeing as how many of the informal statistical milestones we look at generally need 15+ years to achieve. Guys debut at 20 or 21 years old, “peak” at 25-27, and then we start discussing their retirement at 31/32. Who the heck is going to hit 500 Home Runs or reach 3,000 hits anymore?
This was always the case to some extent. It’s just a survivorship bias at play. You remember only the greats of the past, and not the guys who were really good for a couple years. 1998, to me, was peak PED Era, when Sosa and McGwire were vying for and beating Maris’ record. The WAR leaderboard from ’98 is littered with these sorts of “really good for a few years, but basically out of baseball in their early/mid 30s” kind of guys. Garciaparra was 5th in WAR (7.3), and accumulated 2.9 WAR total after the age of 29. Albert Belle was 6th in WAR (7.1), and was out of baseball two years later at 33. Ken Griffey Jr. is probably the greatest example of this. He was worth 6.6 WAR in ’98, then worth a cumulative 3.9 WAR in ten seasons from age 31-40. Jeff Cirillo (remember him?) posted 6.5 WAR at age 28. He then accumulated only 3.3 WAR after age 31. And these are just a few of guys from the top 20 WAR, there’s a bunch more further down, like Juan Gonzalez, Mo Vaughn, Derek Bell, Ray Lankford, Scott Brosius, Bernie Williams and John Valentin, who were basically worthless after age 32. And this is peak PED Era. Go back to the ’70s or ’80s and you’ll see the same effect.
Is this Betts’s last year on the list? It appears Lindor is already off
Webb is going to be the only Giant on the list isn’t he. Sad times in SF
Well, several teams have zero, right? Red Sox, Reds, Cubs, Phillies, Yankees, and A’s.
ey, good point. that makes me feel a tiny bit better
Bichette and Riley are a little over rated here. Bichette over 100 k’s 20 something walks, swing not impressive. Riley seems to be getting a little better with plate discipline.
Awesome work, Ben!
IMO Bo is too high, he’s obviously clearly top 50 but he is more around 40ish for me. He’s a good but not elite hitter, last years bsr looks like a big random fluke, and he isn’t a particularly good defensive SS