For Whom The Snell Toils
As is fast becoming a holiday tradition, the Padres and Rays made a high-profile trade last night. Blake Snell, the former Cy Young winner and Rays ace, is headed to San Diego, as Dennis Lin, Josh Tolentino, and Ken Rosenthal first reported. The Padres are sending a bevy of players back, both prospects and major leaguers: Luis Patiño, Francisco Mejía, Blake Hunt, and Cole Wilcox.
Last time the two teams hooked up, Snell was virally critical of Tampa Bay’s perennial strategy: trade players a year too early rather than a year too late, prioritizing team control and pre-arbitration salaries over current production. Last year, that was Tommy Pham, whose $7 million arbitration projection simply didn’t work in Tampa. This time, Snell himself is the monetary sacrifice. The extension he signed before 2019 has three years and $40.8 million remaining, which is a phenomenal bargain for his employer and also too expensive for the penny-pinching Rays.
Snell immediately becomes the best pitcher in the Padres rotation, which boasts Chris Paddack, Dinelson Lamet, Zach Davies, and a sampler platter of interesting prospects headlined by Mackenzie Gore and Adrian Morejon. Mike Clevinger will miss 2021 after undergoing Tommy John surgery, but he’ll return in 2022 to co-star in a spectacular rotation.
Snell may never recapture the overall production of his 2018 Cy Young season (1.89 ERA, 221 strikeouts in 180.2 innings), but he’s been consistently excellent for years now, albeit on a shorter leash than many elite pitchers. His strikeout rates hardly waver: 31.6% in 2018, 33.3% in 2019, and 31 % in 2020. His walk rates have been consistent as well: 9.1%, 9.1%, and 8.9% respectively.
Put it all together, and you get a solid and dependable pitcher. Run prevention is inherently volatile, but xFIP and SIERA, which attempt to strip out events outside a pitcher’s control in different ways, both think Snell has been consistently and similarly great. Both are scaled to resemble ERA, and he’s been stellar by both measures, with xFIPs between 3.06 and 3.31 over the last three years and SIERAs between 3.30 and 3.57. There’s nothing fluky about his dominance, either: he misses a ton of bats, hits the upper 90s, and boasts two excellent breaking balls.
The only thing missing from Snell’s resume is stamina. He went more than six innings 13 times in 2018, but that’s the last time he truly went deep into a game. He did it only twice in an injury-shortened 2019 and didn’t so much as enter the seventh inning in 2020. When Kevin Cash pulled Snell in the World Series, it was a controversial decision but also one Cash had been making all year.
About Snell’s short starts: who cares? A starter who goes seven innings most times out is a luxury, but it’s not a necessity by any means. The tradeoff isn’t between six innings from Snell and seven from some hypothetical ace; it’s between six from Snell and six from whatever starter San Diego would have called up instead. The Padres will have games where they wish Snell had slightly more in the tank, but you don’t acquire a pitcher for his ability to pitch in the seventh; you acquire him for his ability to consistently prevent runs when he’s on the mound, which Snell clearly possesses.
While the Padres won a series in the playoffs this year, they did it despite a threadbare starting rotation. Paddack and Davies each got starts in the first round, but with Clevinger and Lamet sidelined with injury, Craig Stammen made his first start since 2010 as part of a bullpen game. It was enough to win the series, but it presents a clear opportunity for improvement: Snell is one of the 30 or so best pitchers in baseball, and now he can handle one or two starts per playoff round.
In fact, at the major league level, this trade is basically pure upside for San Diego next year. Patiño is a stellar talent and a top 10 prospect in all of baseball, but he’s 21 and has thrown 20 not-so-good innings against major league competition. He’ll likely be better in 2021, but before 2020, he’d only thrown seven innings above A-ball; anything he delivers in the big leagues next year is an unexpected benefit. Wilcox and Hunt, too, are years away from contributing to a big league team.
As for Mejía, he’s a good reminder that prospects don’t always turn into what we expect. When the Padres traded for him in 2018, he was a Top 50-ish prospect, a polished offensive catcher with middling skills behind the plate. His hit tool hasn’t yet translated to the majors, and with Austin Nola in San Diego, he was ticketed for backup duty this year. The Padres will miss him, but only marginally. That’s not to say he has no value — players of Mejía’s pedigree don’t grow on trees, and he might be one adjustment away from fulfilling the promise he showed in the Cleveland system. For San Diego, however, he’s surplus.
Why make this trade, then, if you’re the Rays? It’s the money. Snell is unquestionably a great player, and he’s unquestionably a bargain. All 30 teams in baseball would add Blake Snell to their roster at his current contract terms and be ecstatic about it, Tampa Bay included. To build a team the way that Tampa Bay does, however, you can’t make your team out of Blake Snell types, at least not principally. The lifeblood of the Tampa Bay system is the pre-arbitration player, and Snell was simply the latest trade chip the Rays were able to leverage for more potential pre-arb stars.
Try to imagine constructing a roster that can compete with the best teams in baseball for under $70 million, as the Rays consistently do. Most teams would jump at the opportunity to replace their rotation with five clones of Snell, but the Rays literally couldn’t run out a full team at that price point given their extreme budget limitations. To make their system work, you need many contributors making a salary near the league minimum.
Competing in perpetuity under those self-imposed constraints adds a degree of difficulty to the juggling act. Snell himself was once one of the pre-arb stars around which Tampa built their spendthrift empire, and the team hopes Patiño will take that role in the future. Analysts and teams talk in terms of surplus value these days, but Tampa Bay’s comically low salary means that they have an extra criteria to satisfy: they need to get a sizable portion of their production from players with less than five or so years of service time.
Without that constraint, trading Snell wouldn’t make sense. The Rays just played in the World Series. They’re good right now. They aren’t rebuilding or tearing down; next year, they’ll once again try to win the World Series. It’s plainly obvious that a team of their talent level shouldn’t be subtracting elite pitching.
Think of it in an absurdly abstract sense, and let’s throw some ballpark numbers on it. Over the next three years, let’s say Blake Snell will produce $100 million of on-field value at a cost of $40 million in salary, a $60 million surplus. Let’s further posit that over his six years of team control, Patiño will produce $70 million of on-field value at a cost of $20 million in salary, a $50 million surplus.
In a vacuum, that’s a bad trade for the team dealing Snell. If you desperately need to pay only $20 million, though, then Patiño is the clear choice, even if it means giving up surplus value as defined by a neutral observer.
In fact, the Rays live on trades like these. They don’t win every trade, as the rumor goes, but they do advance a general strategy whenever possible. At every turn, Tampa Bay hunts for value from players they can control at bargain basement rates for an extended period of time. They value production too, of course, but given the budget game they choose to play, salary has to be king. If you’re going to compete for 10 years using minimum salary players, you need to acquire and develop as many promising prospects as possible.
It’s unclear whether the abbreviated season forced Tampa Bay’s hand in trading Snell. Regardless of the specifics of the deal, the Rays were always likely to trade someone like Snell. They were always likely to look for a return like the one they got — a high-likelihood stud performer plus a sampler platter of interesting prospects. It might be an awkward time for the franchise, and it might fit weirdly in the win curve, but that’s all noise compared to the need to push chips forward in time and towards cheaper players.
From their perspective, the Padres won this trade. They flipped future assets and an excess piece for one of the best pitchers in baseball. Because of Snell’s contract, they come out roughly even on surplus value as well, depending on what you think of Patiño (Eric Longenhagen analyzed that part of the deal here).
And from their perspective, the Rays won this trade. Whatever you think of their long-term strategy, executing trades like this is a key way to keep it going. The Rays didn’t get to where they are by keeping the Blake Snells of the world, and they won’t suddenly change plans overnight. Patiño might pan out, and he might not, but turning a generically good situation — a Cy Young winner on a $13 million a year contract — into the kind of team-control gold necessary to compete is the only way to keep the ship afloat when this is how you choose to steer it.
Someday, we can debate the healthiness of the Rays’ system. For now, though, let’s leave it at this: San Diego and Tampa Bay both accomplished something they badly wanted to do in yesterday’s trade. As Jeffrey Paternostro so eloquently put it, it’s okay to hold two separate ideas in our heads at once.
Both sides are going to walk away happy from this deal happy with what they accomplished. Viewed from the extremely narrow perspective of how to maximize long-term wins under financial duress, the Rays got what they wanted here. The Padres, on the other hand, got what everyone wants — several years of a great pitcher. Which of those two should be the objective of a competitive baseball team? I leave that as an exercise for the reader.
Ben is a writer at FanGraphs. He can be found on Bluesky @benclemens.
At this point Tampa’s dilemma is obvious — a small fan base leaves them without the money to retain even one or two good “face of the franchise” players, and the lack of spending makes it almost impossible to grow the fan base.
Maybe Nashville shouldn’t wait for MLB to get around to expansion.
Ownership says the stadium, in particular the stadium location (St Pete, too far for many people), is a big part of the problem, and they want help paying for a stadium in Tampa. Normally I’d hate to parrot whatever self-interested thing ownership is saying, but I’ve heard several journalists agree with that. I wonder if they’d suck/cheap out less if they had a better stadium location.
Interesting what this trade says about the FA market. The Padres figured to be a big buyer, but perhaps the previous big spending on Hosmer & Machado and the pandemic losses took them out of it. Not counting the accepted QO’s by Stroman and Gausman, none of Craig Edwards top-19 FA’s have signed. James McCann has been the biggest FA contract so far and only Trevor May, Mike Minor, Drew Smyly, and Carlos Santana in the 20-41 range have signed, to my memory.
With the Pads out, are the Blue Jays the only bidders on the top-20 FA’s? Can the Mets, A’s, or Angels do more in FA? I know the Yankees are on DJLM, but I haven’t heard much buzz from any other teams. Plus, FA’s face a lot of competition from fire sales from the Reds and Pirates. There may be some surprising bargains coming in late January and February.
The Padres are apparently the front runners on Kim as well, which seems to be a weird fit as 3 of their best players are in the positions he would likely man.
Apparently they would move Cronenworth to the multi-positional jack-of-all trades role they originally envisioned for him. It does seem to me like he’d be more valuable to a team like the Jays who have a hole in the infield, but all it takes is the Padres believing more in his bat.
Yea he is good with the glove and well above average speed, so I’d imagine he can play the outfield in a pinch. They also want him to pitch, and he likely is good enough, so I wouldn’t mind it.
I am not all that convinced that Snell is as good as Ben is arguing here. Snell has great stuff but he’s inconsistent and he doesn’t pitch a lot. He has only topped 130 innings once in his career, and his shiny ERA that year predictably regressed back to his xFIP after that. I don’t see him as being better than Lamet, who was absolutely filthy last year. It’s still pretty important that they got a pitcher at Snell’s level because Lamet was the only guy they really could count on in a playoff rotation, and Snell has the stuff that plays in the playoffs (when he’s on his game, that is), but I don’t see him as a Top 10 pitcher and Lamet might be, although I think realistically they’re both a cut below guys like Bauer.
The story here is that the Rays have the same theory that Ben is espousing here, that consolidating innings is not worth the cost; they don’t see that much of a difference between a guy who goes 3-5 innings and one who goes 5-7 innings. To them, those extra 2 innings is just not worth it; they bet they can get by by spreading innings out over more pitchers. So they don’t value a guy who, at least in theory, can go 5-7 innings (I think there some questions about this in practice), compared to a team like the Padres. And they seem willing to push this theory pretty far. It is true that this has not blown up on the Rays yet, and they seem to be willing to push it pretty far.
This also goes for their return. Eric has reported that both Patino and Wilcox, despite having good stuff, might be relievers long-term. So a team like the Rays is going to value Patino and Wilcox, because the fact that they are probably 3-5 inning guys for them, or even the worry that they’ll be 2-3 inning guys, is just not as big a deal for them. I’d expect to Patino in that role at some point this year, along with Honeywell and McClanahan.
How far can they push this before they run out of roster space? The Rays platoon like crazy and essentially have an entire pitching staff of multi-inning relievers, with the big exceptions being Yarbrough and Glasnow, and even those guys aren’t your traditional 5-7 inning guys a lot of the time. I’m half expecting them to trade Glasnow and Yarbrough next offseason and run with an entire pitching roster of guys who go 2 or 3 innings at a time. I keep thinking this will blow up on them but it hasn’t yet and they seem determined to test the limits of how far they can go.
That is what I was thinking as well. Acquiring guys like Wacha seems to further that point, he probably has stuff that will play up and we are going to say “wow who knew Wacha could K x% of hitters if utilized in 2-3ip spots” . Their current SP 2 is Yarbrough, who is more of a backend low K crafty lefty, not a 2 for a team that just went to the World Series. While they have lost Snell, Morton, and Chorinos from their starting rotation since last year, I don’t think they think that is much of a negative, if at all. They are going to be good again this year, and they have a lot of rotation depth in the high minors who likely will be utilized in short bursts as well. Even McKay might not necessarily be a traditional starter. Deep down I sort of want to see it backfire because it could kill fantasy baseball to not have starters get wins, but I don’t really think it will.
You ding Snell for inconsistency then laud Bauer? Bauer has been great for 1.5 seasons and meh for 5 years.
The difference is that Bauer pitches a lot more than Snell. You can slice it a few different ways but Snell’s inconsistency is related both to availability and performance.
So Bauer is better than Snell because even though he’s been bad 85% of his career, since he pitches more, that makes up for it? I’m trying to understand your logic here.
On a per-inning basis Snell has provided slightly better value than Bauer, but Bauer pitches a lot more. If you just look at the last 3 years, which is arguably the most relevant history anyway (and includes Snell’s best year by far in all respects), you get a guy who was excellent over 330 innings vs. a guy who was just a tick below that over 560 innings. I don’t see why this is so complicated. It’s a basic multiplication thing.
One thing that is interesting to note is that Snell’s dominance seems to be a bit more inconsistent within years, where you’re not sure what kind of a start you’re going to get each time he goes out. But he’s very consistent across years. Bauer is very much the opposite of that.
To an extent this deal is fallout from Clevinger’s elbow.
With a healthy Clevinger they might have gone with an older pitcher as a bridge to Patiño hitting his stride but without him they needed someone now and in 2022, when there’s no telling what Clevinger can deliver.
And their window is NOW.
So it’s future value for present value.
And they meet tbeir needs without throwing money at Bauer.
A good deal for both teams, really.
Not so good for the free agents looking to fill Clevinger’s slot.
To be fair, the only free agent who could fill Clevinger’s spot was Bauer, and while I don’t know what he’s going to get I’m going to guess it’s going to be something like Darvish + Snell’s salaries in terms of AAV.
Exactly.
Getting Snell let’s them get Darvish, too. And still save money.
Neither alone is as good as peak Bauer but then Bauer isn’t always peak Bauer.
Unless Patiño is the second coming of Pedro Martinez, Snell+Darvish+cash is better that whatever they might get from Bauer+Patiño.
Nailed it. The Rays are so good at developing pitchers who can be anywhere from competent to great in 2-3 inning stretches that I don’t think this strategy of building entire pitching staffs of multi-inning relievers can blow up on them. I don’t wanna say they’ve broken baseball but they kind of have.
Nice article.
More prospects don’t pan out than do. The price was high, but Snell seemed to want out. One minor thing with the trading of Pham, it isn’t like he is some lost cause. He was hurt and played 31 games. He has a career 126 wRC+, and barring Edwards becoming a superstar the Padres seem to have won the trade, even if Pham never rebounds, which he probably will.
The Padres probably have won the trade because Jake Cronenworth is probably better than Xavier Edwards. The odds that any prospect turns into a 3-win multi-positional guy is pretty low, and the Padres got it. Pham bouncing back, which he probably will, will likely put it further out of reach.
The praise for Cronenworth here is high. I’d like to see a full solid season before declaring him a true talent “3 win multi position” guy.
I agree to an extent. He was one of the unluckiest hitters in baseball last year via savant, who saw his true talent line as .324/383/541… which, who knows. That would be one of the best lines in all of baseball, not saying I agree with it though. Bad luck does match up with the eye test as well though, as I literally watched every single one of his at bats, and he hit line drive after line drive to RF/warning track fly outs etc. If you look at his spray chart it shows that too. But look at his percentile rankings : 95 xwoba, 98xba, 91xslg, 84%k, 91% whiff, 92% speed, 89 oaa%. Literally every part of his percentile rankings scream superstar. He also was throwing 94-98 recently off the mound, touching 100. He was scouted by every single team except the Rays as a pitcher, not a hitter out of college.
Now the negatives, he did seem a bit capped out in the power department however, as his max ev was 110 and max distance was 426. To me he seems like a guy that could potentially develop and get to a little more power, but will likely be more of a doubles hitter than a HR hitter. He also struggled a lot down the stretch last season, but there wasn’t any noticeable difference, just a .224 babip. Even if he doesn’t get back to his 125 wRC+ (which would of been over 150 from expected stats) he still has a lot of value being + across the diamond, even without mentioning pitching.
Right, I don’t think he’s a true-talent 4+ win player, which is what he would be if you projected him out to 600 PAs. I also don’t think he’s a true talent 6+ win player, which is what he would be if you took his expected stats. But I don’t see anything fluky in his profile at all, and he has room to regress and still be a 3-win player.
ZiPs projects him to 2.5 wins in 500 PAs, which comes out to 3 over 600. I think that’s a fair assessment of what he’ll do next year (he also gets comped to Stan Hack, one of the better-named baseball players, so that’s a plus).
Just checked out his Statcast page, and you guys definitely have a point. To be clear, I think he’ll be a fine player, but I think he’ll be more Martin Prado than Ben Zobrist. His underlying numbers were fantastic, but it’s a contact-driven profile, so we’ll see how it sticks with a full slate of games against a larger variety of arms.
Just stopped by the comment section to praise the headline – “For Whom The Snell Toils.”
Good stuff.
Aaaaaand the Padres are trying to acquire Darvish. So that would give them a Lamet-Darvish-Snell front three for the playoffs, with Paddack (who has top starter upside) at #4 and Davies at #5. While I’m a little leery of Darvish keeping his late-career renaissance going, or Snell being consistent enough to be a true ace again, that is undeniably a playoff-worthy rotation.
Not to mention Gore who might be the best pitching prospect in baseball. Plus they just signed Ha-Seong Kim from Korea.
IMO, the bog question about Snell is this; A) Is he a guy who can’t go past 6 innings? or B) has he simply not gotten the opportunities to do so in Tampa because of their philosophy?
If B, then the Padres will be very happy.
I see no reason that he can’t be used like he was used in ’18. 175-185 quality innings would be huge for SD’s rotation that lacks depth (for now).
This is some fine writing on a short turnaround. Not to mention the headline. Great work!
I don’t have much of anything meaningful to add. I agree for the most part with Ben’s take that it was a generally well-executed trade, where both parties must feel satisfied with the outcome.
However, as impressive it is to watch the Rays staff do what they do best…It’s also frustrating to see a team have to operate under such a strict budget. Yes, that Baseball Ops team is incredible, but the fact they have to abide by this strategy is comically bad.
Yes, Tampa is a comparatively smaller market than say, New York – but, it’s not like they can even market stars since everyone is traded the second they cost anything. And because they’ve been so uniquely successful, now we’re seeing larger markets adopt a similar strategy (Red Sox, Cubs, etc.), and it’s just so depressing.
When can we start discussing alternative locations for the Rays?
Don’t get me wrong, watching them operate in this financially-constrained setup leads to incredibly interesting trades like this one. But each trade just continues to dance around the underlying issue: lack of revenue from Tampa.
We can talk about it now if you want, but they’re going to Montreal in 2028.
According to the US Census Bureau, they play in the 18th largest metropolitan area. And according to Nielsen, they play in the 11th largest DMA in the US. Both would place Tampa as the largest metropolitan area without an MLB team, and the area is growing considerably faster than most of the largest markets. Long-term, the sport needs a team in the city and one that does a better job marketing its product to local market (and adjacent ones)
This. They need a new stadium BUT their is significant inertia to fund a new stadium after the last debacle that was the TB Bucs. Giving ownership a full ride on a stadium while they use your team as a personal cash flow piggy bank to fund soccer team purchases for 1.2bil will give any city second thoughts, not to mention just the general thoughts that maybe these outlandish ballparks built for billionaires and played in by millionaires is not too palatable given the dichotomy in wealth is expanding. I might give them tax breaks on the land, but that’s it. Build your own park or leave, no more social bailouts for billionaires.
This misses the forest for the trees. While what you say is technically true, what is also true is that the Tampa Bay region is relatively poor, there are few corporate HQ’s/support, and the traffic situation is pretty awful during the times the Rays play so people from Tampa > St. Pete or Bradenton > St. Pete or even north up 19 like New Port Richey / Hudson is a pain to get to in time. Then you add on there are a ton of New England transplants in the area who absolutely refuse to give up their allegiance plus the ridiculous situation where division rivals have high level minors teams / spring training literally in their backyard. (Steinbrenner field…blech)
The Rays pull very good TV ratings. They have bad in-person attendance. Montreal will be 1000x worse – they were the worst franchise in history with poorer #’s all around than AAA teams and nothing has changed there except Bronfman throwing around $$$ which is really what Mr. Met Stu cares about most. So….there’s that from a Rays local perspective.
The Rays got back a prospect haul, with a top-20 prospect, a top-100 prospect, and a prospect in Wilcox who had 1st round-2020 draft-level talent, plus a former top-100 prospect in Mejia who is still young, fills a position of need, and can have some time to prove himself. And given how tightly the Rays manage the 40-man, Hunt and Wilcox might be even more “valuable” longer-term than prospects closer to the Majors.
So many folks are focused on the Rays shedding Snell’s salary, and reasonably so, but I have to wonder if the Rays didn’t dangle Snell to see what offers came up and then were made an offer that they simply couldn’t refuse. At a minimum, I believe the Rays weren’t so much “shopping” Snell as testing the waters on his value with a willingness to deal him if overwhelmed with an offer – which they were,
I’ve wondered if the Phils should do the same with Nola. Similar contract situations, too. Would LAD or NYY be a match?
Say what one will about how the Rays operate, it does mean they always have an interesting and fun AAA squad, which, for those of us in close proximity to the Bulls’ ball yard, is a real plus.
Oh my gosh, they’re getting Darvish too.
After reading all the comments below, I was surprised nobody had the chutzpah to even mention the possibility that this is Archer redux. Snell’s arm falls off, Patino pitches 200 innings and wins 20 in the near future, Mejia figures it out and the 2 lottery tickets pay off. If that happens then Tampa’s plan will stop working because nobody will ever make another trade with the Rays.
That’s like predicting Mookie Betts having another 10 win season. It happened once so there’s precedent, but the chances of anyone getting a 10-win season is basically zero. The lopsidedness of the Archer deal is about as likely.
If we’re looking for a trade involving an established starting pitcher and the Rays (and even Chris Archer) I think a better historical analogy is the Matt Garza trade. Archer turned into a stud, Brandon Guyer was a decent role player for them, Sam Fuld was an okay-ish role player for them, Hak Ju Lee busted, and they gave up on Robinson Chirinos too early. Meanwhile, Garza had one great year for the Cubs before becoming a 4th starter for the rest of his contract.
It toils for thee 🙂
Btw I don’t understand the surplus value part here.
If we assume snell has 50-60m surplus value, let’s take 60 then the rays win that trade big time.
According to this article a 60fv alone is worth 55-60m
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/an-update-to-prospect-valuation/
And the two other prospects are valued 45s by eric
A 45 according to this article is worth around 4-6m.
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/putting-a-dollar-value-on-prospects-outside-the-top-100/
This means that package alone is worth 65-70m and meija is probably worth another 6m or so.
This means the deal is around 15m under water for the padres and the rays looks like a winner even before giving them a rays magic bonus for player dev.
Still not a bad deal for the padres especially since they have depth at those positions but just by surplus value the rays look like a clear winner.
This could obviously change either way in the future (if snell gets hurt or patino busts as the main risks) but now it looks good for the rays.
The Rays are so well run and so poorly owned. Let’s come up with 5 locations that would be a better business situation.
1.LV
2.Montreal
3.Portland
4.Nashville
5.Austin
The way their economy is going, by the time the Rays can move Austin will be tops on that list.