JAWS and the 2024 Hall of Fame Ballot: Bobby Abreu

The following article is part of Jay Jaffe’s ongoing look at the candidates on the BBWAA 2024 Hall of Fame ballot. Originally written for the 2020 election, it has been updated to reflect recent voting results as well as additional research. For a detailed introduction to this year’s ballot, and other candidates in the series, use the tool above; an introduction to JAWS can be found here. For a tentative schedule and a chance to fill out a Hall of Fame ballot for our crowdsourcing project, see here. All WAR figures refer to the Baseball-Reference version unless otherwise indicated.
Bobby Abreu could do just about everything. A five-tool player with dazzling speed, a sweet left-handed stroke, and enough power to win a Home Run Derby, he was also one of the game’s most patient, disciplined hitters, able to wear down a pitcher and unafraid to hit with two strikes. While routinely reaching the traditional seasonal plateaus that tend to get noticed — a .300 batting average (six times), 20 homers (nine times), 30 steals (six times), 100 runs scored and batted in (eight times apiece) — he was nonetheless a stathead favorite for his ability to take a walk (100 or more eight years in a row) and his high on-base percentages (.400 or better eight times). And he was durable, playing 151 games or more in 13 straight seasons. “To me, Bobby’s Tony Gwynn with power,” said Phillies hitting coach Hal McRae in 1999.
“Bobby was way ahead of his time [with] regards to working pitchers,” said his former manager Larry Bowa when presenting him for induction into the Phillies Wall of Fame in 2019. “In an era when guys were swinging for the fences, Bobby never strayed from his game. Because of his speed, a walk would turn into a double. He was cool under pressure, and always in control of his at-bats. He was the best combination of power, speed, and patience at the plate.”
The one thing Abreu couldn’t seem to do was gain full appreciation for his broad set of gifts. Despite enough promise to land on Baseball America’s Top 100 Prospects list four times, his first two teams, the Astros and Rays, sold unfathomably low on him. On the advice of Ed Wade, who was about to replace him as the Phillies’ general manager, Lee Thomas scored quite a coup in acquiring him just before he turned 24. Abreu excelled perennially, but the core of players that Wade and the Phillies amassed — some of whom would eventually help the team dominate the NL East — didn’t jell during his tenure, and so he toiled in semi-obscurity.
From 1998, his first year as a regular in Philadelphia, to 2004, Abreu was the game’s fifth- or sixth-most valuable player according to the two flavors of WAR, behind only Barry Bonds, Alex Rodriguez, Todd Helton (via B-Ref), Andruw Jones, and teammate Scott Rolen. Yet not until the last of those seasons, his age-30 campaign, did Abreu make his first All-Star team. He made just two during his 18 seasons and won a single Gold Glove, albeit only after his fielding took a turn for the worse.
Abreu wasn’t perfect. He developed a reputation for moodiness early in his career and gave his first manager in Philadelphia, Terry Francona, headaches. As early as 1999, he gained a reputation for his aversion to outfield walls. His selectivity at the plate — he swung at just 34.9% of all pitches from 2002 (when our splits start) to ’14, the majors’ third-lowest rate — was sometimes mistaken for passivity. He became a target for criticism because he didn’t fit the blue-collar mold of so many Philadelphia favorites. When he was traded to the Yankees in mid-2006, the year before the Phillies embarked upon their a streak of five straight division titles, one writer referred to Abreu as a “fan punching bag.” Even so, Bowa, then serving as the Yankees’ third base coach, recommended the trade to general manager Brian Cashman.
The Phillies Wall of Fame is one thing, but the greater honor of the Baseball Hall of Fame is another story. While Abreu was roughly a six-win player for that 1998–2004 run, he’s a bit short of the JAWS standard for right fielders, though he’s one spot ahead of Vladimir Guerrero, who was elected in 2018. When he debuted on the 2020 ballot, the question wasn’t whether he’d ever get to 75%, but whether he’d clear the 5% needed to retain his eligibility. He did, albeit by just two votes. Between the thinning traffic and the launch of a campaign by the Phillies, he got a closer look during the 2021 cycle and improved his share of the vote, albeit from just 5.5% to 8.7%. Mine was one of the 35 votes he received; after he was the final cut from my virtual ballot process in 2020, I had ample room to include him on my first actual ballot. I’ve done so each year since, and after more or less staying in place with 8.6% in 2022, he climbed to 15.4% last year. Even so, he’s got a long way to go.
| Player | Career WAR | Peak WAR | JAWS |
|---|---|---|---|
| Bobby Abreu | 60.2 | 41.6 | 50.9 |
| Avg. HOF RF | 71.1 | 42.4 | 56.7 |
| H | HR | AVG/OBP/SLG | OPS+ |
| 2,470 | 288 | .291/.395/.475 | 128 |
Born on March 11, 1974 in Maracay, Venezuela, Abreu was the second of six children of mother Aguenda and father Nelson Abreu, a baseball fanatic whose job was loading crates onto trucks, which in the impoverished village of Turmero made the family comparatively middle class (which meant “no in-house telephones and minimal hot running water,” according to Jeff Pearlman’s 2001 Sports Illustrated profile). Nelson imparted Bob Kelly Abreu with a middle name in honor of Pat Kelly, a former All-Star outfielder who starred in the Venezuelan Winter League. Bob and brothers Nelson (the oldest), Dennys, and Nielsen played stickball in the streets of Turmero as boys and soaked in the baseball wisdom of their father, who watched any American game that he could. All four boys all went on to play professionally, though besides Bobby, only Dennys rose above High-A.
Abreu gravitated to baseball, and at age 14, while playing in a national tournament, came to the attention of Andres Reiner, a Hungarian-born scout who was in the process of convincing the Astros to finance a baseball academy in Valencia, about 20 miles away. For two years, Abreu split his time between attending classes and playing baseball at the nascent academy. In August 1990, when he was 16, he signed a professional contract with the Astros, thus becoming the first of a wave of Venezuela-born players whom the team would sign via Reiner, a list that includes Raul Chavez, Freddy Garcia, Carlos Guillen, Richard Hidalgo, Melvin Mora, Roberto Petagine, and Johan Santana. Abreu began his stateside professional career in 1991 and, after hitting .292/.375/.402 with eight homers and 15 steals for the Astros’ Asheville affiliate, cracked the Baseball America Top 100 prospects list at No. 95.
Unfortunately, shortly after Abreu signed with Houston, his father was hit by a car in Turmero, an accident that left him a paraplegic. In 1992, while Bobby was playing in the VWL, he learned that his father had flown to Cuba for surgery in hopes of restoring feeling to his legs but had died in the operating room. Shortly afterwards, Bobby began asking people to call him by his father’s nickname, “El Comedulce,” a moniker that was nebulous in origin but that loosely translates to “the candy-eater.”
By 1995, Abreu’s age-21 season, he was in Triple-A, hitting .304/.395/.516 with 17 triples (tops in the Pacific Coast League), 16 steals, and 10 homers for the Astros’ Tucson affiliate, a performance that pushed him to 29th on BA’s list. He was slightly less successful while repeating the level and reportedly sulked after being sent down at the end of spring training, though the Astros still thought highly enough of him to recall him for a September cup of coffee. His debut, on September 1 against the Pirates, was the ultimate in anticlimax: he was announced as a pinch-hitter but replaced when the Pirates switched from righty Chris Holt to lefty Dan Plesac. He went 0-for-10 with a walk in his first 10 games before finally collecting his first hit, a pinch-hit single off the Mets’ Bobby Jones on September 24.
Abreu opened the 1997 season as the Astros’ starting right fielder and reeled off a nine-game hitting streak, but he was batting just .245/.335/.361 before fracturing a hamate bone in his right hand. Lost in the outfield shuffle upon returning in early July, he played just five games before being sent back to Tucson. “He went to Triple A with a poor attitude, and he had a bad year,” Astros general manager Gerry Hunsicker told SI. “He looked like he was going backward.”
Though Abreu made the team’s playoff roster, the Astros soured upon him to the point of leaving him unprotected in the expansion draft; beyond his attitude were concerns about his ability to hit breaking balls and his tentative baserunning. Teams could protect only 15 players from the entire organization for the first round of 14 picks by the new Arizona Diamondbacks and Tampa Bay Devil Rays, and Houston chose to protect Hidalgo over Abreu, who was taken sixth by Tampa Bay. He was then immediately flipped to the Phillies in exchange for light-hitting shortstop Kevin Stocker in a prearranged trade.
Stocker produced just 2.7 WAR, batting .250/.329/.347 (75 OPS+), in three seasons for the new club. Abreu began the 1998 season as the Phillies’ right fielder by hitting back-to-back singles off the Mets’ Jones (I realized during writing this that I attended this 14-inning slog, or most of it) and cleared Stocker’s total WAR with the Devil Rays by midseason. Delivering on the promise of his prospect rankings and then some, he hit .312/.409/.497 for a 135 OPS+ with 17 homers, 19 steals, and off-the-charts defense (+28 runs, according to Total Zone); his 6.4 WAR just missed cracking the league’s top 10.
No matter, for Abreu would more or less approximate that level for the next six seasons, delivering 35.2 WAR (5.9 per year) from 1999 to 2004, with a low of 5.2 in ’01 (the only year in this span in which he didn’t crack the top 10) and a high of 6.6 in ’04. In 1999, he hit .335/.446/.549, leading the league with 11 triples to go with his 27 steals and 20 homers; he placed third in batting average and on-base percentage (both would stand as career highs) and seventh in OPS+ (147) and WAR (6.1).
Scarcely anybody noticed, for Abreu didn’t make the NL All-Star team, though he did get twice as many points as Bonds in the NL MVP voting — just enough to place 23rd. The story was similar in 2000 (25 homers, 28 steals, 143 OPS+, 6.2 WAR) save for a lack of MVP consideration. He finished a comparatively lofty 16th in the voting in 2001, when he set career highs with 31 homers and 36 steals (his first 30–30 season), but still, All-Stardom eluded him.
It didn’t help that the Phillies were busy going nowhere even with a young nucleus that included 1996 second-round pick Jimmy Rollins, ’97 NL Rookie of the Year Rolen, ’97 second-rounder Randy Wolf, and ’98 No. 1 pick Pat Burrell. After winning just 68 games in 1997, their first year under Francona, they won 75, then 77 games before sinking back to 65 in 2000; in late July of that year, they traded away staff ace Curt Schilling, who in April 1997 had accepted a below-market three-year extension to stay.
Francona got the axe at the end of that season, but not before running out of patience with Abreu, who despite his outstanding performances had rankled the manager with his chronic tardiness. Per Pearlman, veteran teammates questioned Abreu’s commitment, and Francona’s authority was undercut when he attempted to send Abreu home after a late arrival, only to have the discipline vetoed by Wade. “Bobby is a wonderful kid,” Francona said, “but last year he got a little sloppy. A lot of it was him going through the growing pains that come with the responsibility of being a very good player. I’ll tell you this — Bobby Abreu is very, very good.”
Abreu straightened out under Bowa, a notorious hardass who in his opening salvo told his players, “Don’t be late. If you are, check in and then go home. Because if you’re late, it means you don’t give a shit.” The Phillies won 86 games that year, as well as in three out of Bowa’s four seasons, but they couldn’t finish any higher than second in the NL East. Abreu, who signed a five-year, $64 million extension in February of 2002, kept chugging along, producing a combined 11.4 WAR in 2002–03 with a pair of 20-homer, 100-walk seasons, batting averages of at least .300, and on-base percentages of at least .400. While he may have found a comfort zone with the more old-school manager, Bowa played a significant part in chasing off Rolen, who was dealt to St. Louis for Placido Polanco and two pitchers, a significant step back for the Phillies’ lineup.
Finally, in 2004, Abreu broke through. In the midst of a .301/.428/.544, 30-homer, 40-steal campaign, the 30-year-old right fielder was finally named to an All-Star team, though his game action was limited to striking out in a pinch-hitting appearance. His 6.6 WAR was a career best, ranking eighth in the league, but even so, in the Phillies’ unhappy clubhouse, teammate Billy Wagner confronted him and charged him with not hustling on defense.
Under new manager Charlie Manuel, Abreu’s 2005 wasn’t nearly as strong (126 OPS+, 3.6 WAR), but he was voted to start in the All-Star Game, the first Phillies outfielder to attain that honor since Lenny Dykstra in 1995. Even before going 1-for-2 with a walk from the leadoff spot for the NL squad, he turned heads by winning the Home Run Derby. Selected to represent Venezuela in a format designed to dovetail with the announcement of the 2006 World Baseball Classic, Abreu set records with 24 homers in the first round and 41 overall, besting Puerto Rico’s Ivan Rodriguez in the finals.
Despite the show, Abreu became a poster boy for the mythical Derby hangover effect when he hit just six homers in the second half after bashing 18 in the first. He won his only Gold Glove at season’s end, though it was a dubious selection based more on reputation than metrics (-8 DRS and -7 UZR, his first time in the red via the former).
The power outage carried over somewhat, with Abreu homering just eight times in his first 98 games in 2006. With the team seven games below .500 in late July, the Phillies traded him and pitcher Cory Lidle to the Yankees for a package of four prospects headlined by former first-round pick C.J. Henry; only one prospect dealt (reliever Matt Smith) even got a cup of coffee in Philadelphia.
The Yankees needed a full-time right fielder in the absence of the injured Gary Sheffield, as Bernie Williams simply wasn’t up to the task in what proved to be his final season. Abreu, who had hit a still-useful .277/.427/.434 (118 OPS+) prior to the deal, recaptured his All-Star form, batting .330/.419/.507 (138 OPS+) with seven homers in 58 games in pinstripes. Though he drove in four runs in the Yankees’ Division Series-opening victory against the Tigers and went 5-for-15 with a walk overall, the Yankees were eliminated in four games.
Abreu spent two more seasons in the Bronx, the second of them after the Yankees picked up his $16 million option for 2008. Though no longer playing at an elite level as he moved into his mid-30s — early-season slumps in both years dragged his final numbers down, and he was 11 runs below average defensively each year — he hit a combined .289/.370/.458 (116 OPS+) with 36 homers, 47 steals, and 5.1 WAR over those two seasons and furthered his streak of 100-RBI seasons to six. The Yankees couldn’t get past Cleveland in the former year, Joe Torre’s final one at the helm; Abreu hit .267/.353/.533 with a ninth-inning homer in Game 4, shortly before the team was eliminated. In the latter year, a banged-up Yankees squad missed the postseason for the first time in the Wild Card era; meanwhile, his ex-Phillies teammates won the World Series.
Abreu hit free agency that fall but met a rather frosty reception as he tried to counter the notion that he was “a serial compiler,” to use Jerry Crasnick’s term. Reportedly seeking either a three-year deal or two years plus a vesting option for $15–16 million annually, he had to settle for a one-year, $5 million deal from the Angels in early February, just before camps opened. He was more than worth it, delivering 3.2 WAR (the best season he would have after 2006) and hitting .293/.390/.435 with 15 homers and 30 steals. The performance helped the Angels win their third straight AL West title, and they swept the Red Sox in the Division Series. Abreu went 5-for-9 in the series and was right in the middle of Game 3’s three-run ninth-inning rally against Boston closer Jonathan Papelbon, smacking an RBI double and scoring what proved to be the series-clinching run. He struggled in the ALCS against the Yankees, however, going just 4-for-25.
Abreu parlayed that strong 2009 season into a two-year extension with an option along the lines of what he had previously sought, albeit with just $19 million guaranteed. Though he managed 20 homers, 24 steals, and a 118 OPS+ in 2010, he sank to a 105 OPS+ with eight homers in ’11, spending most of the season as a DH. His $9 million option vested, but between the arrival of Albert Pujols in free agency and the return of Kendrys Morales from a year-and-a-half absence due to a broken leg, playing time was hard to come by in early 2012, and he made just 27 plate appearances before being released on April 27 so that the Angels could call up a top prospect named Mike Trout.
Quickly resurfacing with the Dodgers, Abreu hit for a 97 OPS+, spending time in a left field platoon, but the July 31 deadline acquisition of Shane Victorino, his former teammate in Philadelphia, consigned him to a pinch-hitting role thereafter. After sitting out the 2013 season while tending to business interests in Venezuela, the 40-year-old Abreu parlayed a strong VWL showing into a minor league deal with the Phillies. Cut in late March, he caught a similar deal with the Mets, whose manager, Terry Collins, had piloted the Astros when Abreu debuted. Though he flirted with a .300 batting average in late May and early June, he finished at .248/.342/.338 in 155 PA and, near the end of the season, announced his retirement.
…
Aside from stealing exactly 400 bases, Abreu fell just short of some round-numbered milestones that could have helped his Hall of Fame case. He’s 30 hits short of 2,500, 12 homers short of 300, nine points short of a career .300 batting average (he was above the mark until 2009), five points short of a .400 on-base percentage (he slipped below in ’11), and 25 points short of a .500 slugging percentage. The first three of those account for a potential 26 points in the Hall of Fame Monitor, which dishes out credit for things that have tended to sway Hall of Fame voters: seasons or careers at .300, awards, league leads in key stats, playoff appearances, and so on. That said, for as much of a stathead favorite as Abreu is, he hardly eschewed the more traditional markers of success. Even with just the two All-Star selections and the lone Gold Glove, he scores 94 (short of “a good possibility”) on the Monitor thanks largely to his six seasons hitting .300, eight with at least 100 RBI, and eight with at least 100 runs scored.
Abreu’s biggest selling point isn’t batting average but his elite ability to get on base. From 1998 to 2011, he ranked in his league’s top 10 in walks 12 times, not counting ’06, when he led the majors despite being dealt between leagues. Seven times he was among his league’s top five, and for his career, his 1,476 walks rank 20th. From 1998 to 2005, he was among the NL’s top 10 in on-base percentage seven times, and in the majors’ top 10 in ’06. He didn’t come close to 3,000 hits, but his total of 3,949 times on base (hits plus walks plus hit-by-pitches) is 49th all-time, directly above Hall of Famers Tim Raines, Tony Gwynn, Jesse Burkett, and Harold Baines (all but Burkett had more plate appearances). Among players with at least 7,000 PA, Abreu’s .395 on-base percentage is in a virtual tie for 43rd. His 128 OPS+ is tied for 111th, two points below Carl Yastrzemski, Roberto Clemente, and Dave Winfield, one below Zack Wheat and Eddie Murray, tied with Goose Goslin and Jim Rice, and one point ahead of Rickey Henderson, Willie Keeler, and Bill Dickey, all of whom are Hall of Famers.
Abreu’s case via WAR and JAWS is a bit less convincing. His 369 batting runs (the primary offensive component of WAR) is 87th all time, but he didn’t add overwhelming value via other aspects of his game. While successful on 75.8% of his stolen base attempts, he was just 16 runs above average as a baserunner, the lowest mark of any post-1920 player with at least 400 attempts and a 75% success rate; that said, he did add another 17 for double play avoidance (20th for the Wild Card era). He was more or less average in the field, a net -7 runs for his career.
Overall, Abreu ranked among the league’s top 10 in WAR five times (and just missed a sixth). His total of 60.2 ranks 20th at the position, 0.3 below Sheffield, 0.2 above Ichiro Suzuki, and 0.7 above Guerrero; he’s above 14 of the 28 enshrined non-Negro Leagues right fielders but 10.9 WAR below the standard at a very top-heavy position. His 41.6 peak WAR ranks 17th, ahead of 17 of the 28 enshrined, including Gwynn and Guerrero, and just 0.8 below the standard.
Abreu is 21st in JAWS, 5.8 points below the standard, ahead of 14 of the 28 Hall of Famers. The rankings from no. 15, the first spot below the standard, to 24 make for an outstanding collection of late 20th- and early 21st-century players: Gwynn, Dwight Evans, Reggie Smith, Ichiro, Sammy Sosa, and Winfield are directly above Abreu and below the standard as well, with Guerrero directly below him, followed by Bobby Bonds and Sheffield. Gwynn, Winfield, and Guerrero (one of two BBWAA-elected right fielders who rank below Abreu, the other being the 26th-ranked Keeler) are in the Hall already. Ichiro will sail into the Hall when he becomes eligible next year. Evans, Sosa, and Sheffield are three guys whose inclusion or exclusion on various ballots I’ve agonized over for countless hours; so too with Abreu, who’s admittedly in borderline territory. But if Winfield with his 3,000-plus hits is a first-ballot guy and Guerrero with his style and substance a second-ballot one — both while notably below standard according to JAWS — then we can at least take a closer look to see if there’s room for one more.
| Player | Career | Peak | WAR | PA | OPS+ | Rbat | Rbase | RDP | Rdef |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Dave Winfield | 64.2 | 37.9 | 51.1 | 12358 | 130 | 416 | 38 | -15 | -91 |
| Bobby Abreu | 60.2 | 41.6 | 50.9 | 10081 | 128 | 369 | 16 | 17 | -8 |
| Vladimir Guerrero | 59.5 | 41.2 | 50.3 | 9059 | 140 | 429 | -3 | -17 | 7 |
| Gary Sheffield | 60.5 | 38.0 | 49.3 | 10947 | 140 | 561 | -1 | -11 | -195 |
Guerrero and Sheffield are the best hitters of the group, no doubt, with the latter doing it for longer. Abreu is the most well-rounded of the bunch in terms of things besides hitting, and he’s got the best peak score of the quartet. All of which is to say that while I’m not 100% convinced he’s a Hall of Famer, I’m thoroughly certain he’s somebody who belongs in the discussion and might be worth finding space for on a ballot, particularly when there aren’t 10 obvious must-vote candidates, if only to ward off the Five Percent Blues.
In 2020, Abreu was the unlucky 11th man on my 10-man virtual ballot, and when I omitted him, I expected that he would join the ranks of the one-and-dones. A small group of voters surprised me by keeping him in play, and with an actual ballot in hand, I included both him and Sheffield on my first three ballots, and I intend to do so again this year (I left Sosa off in 2022, his final year, in an unsuccessful bid to save Joe Nathan from falling below 5.0%).
I’m heartened to see that the Phillies have stepped up an effort of their own, even if some of the stat combinations they cite are of the junk drawer variety that JAWS (which goes unmentioned there) was designed to combat. Nobody cares about Abreu outranking Babe Ruth in doubles among right fielders. Campaign-wise, I don’t think any team can match what the Mariners did for Edgar Martinez, who had a stronger case for Cooperstown and was more fully embedded in the team’s history than Abreu is in Philadelphia, but that’s the model to which any team should aspire in launching such an effort.
You don’t need to be steeped in sabermetrics to know that 15.4% is a long way from 75%, but if the past several years have taught me anything about Hall of Fame voting, it’s that the times are changing, and with them the possibilities for candidates to make such long climbs. Split the distance between Ted Simmons, the first one-and-done candidate to be elected by the Era Committees, and Larry Walker, who sank as low as 10.2% in his fourth year of eligibility, or note that Andruw Jones has climbed from 7.3% to 58.1% over the course of his time on the ballot, and you can see that it ain’t over for Abreu.
Brooklyn-based Jay Jaffe is a senior writer for FanGraphs, the author of The Cooperstown Casebook (Thomas Dunne Books, 2017) and the creator of the JAWS (Jaffe WAR Score) metric for Hall of Fame analysis. He founded the Futility Infielder website (2001), was a columnist for Baseball Prospectus (2005-2012) and a contributing writer for Sports Illustrated (2012-2018). He has been a recurring guest on MLB Network and a member of the BBWAA since 2011, and a Hall of Fame voter since 2021. Follow him on BlueSky @jayjaffe.bsky.social.
I don’t think his hitting was good enough to make up for awful fielding, but I also didn’t realize he was so close to Winfield, at least in WAR.
Yeah, he was essentially Winfield without the flash or counting stats…but Winfield was a guy whose flash and counting stats took him over the borderline.
Fangraphs has Abreu accumulating the same overall career amount of WAR in 2300+ less plate appearances than Winfield. That superior rate stat + the concentrated peak performance means that Abreu was the better player IMO. I’ll be screamed at by the CW or “intangible” factor types, but as great as Winfield was, Abreu was better. Winfield played in NYC and was a multisport star in college so he certainly is more “famous” than Abreu.
The issue for Winfield is that the defensive metrics hate him even though he won 7 Gold Gloves. Now, I tend to favor the defensive metrics over the eye test that leads to Gold Gloves. But we also know that the defensive metrics from Winfield’s era weren’t very good. If we take a middle-ground approach and say he was an average outfielder, he’d have about 9 more WAR.
Are you speaking of seagullWAR? They really didn’t care for the throwing arm, but I think they lacked objectivity.
I fully admit that I could be wrong here and Abreu certainly has a statistical case, but he’s just not a HOFer to me. He had a pretty unlucky career in that his skillset (above average in everything at his peak with his one truly elite skill being OBP) wasn’t fully appreciated when he came up, then he had his best seasons on some mediocre-to-bad Phillies teams, got traded to the Yankees before the Phillies’ World Series run, then left the Yankees prior to their World Series. If he came up today, or stuck around for a World Series win, he’d probably be more highly thought of, but his most memorable moment is probably his HR Derby win. It’s probably unfair but this lack of memorability leaves him just on the wrong side of the HOF border for me.
Tony Gwynn had fewer strikeouts from 1992-1998 than Abreu had in 1998 alone (132-133). Gwynn was just a unicorn.
Anyway, Abreu is deserving in my opinion, but it’s easy to see why he’s not gotten support. He’s a peak candidate, doesn’t have as much long term success as most HoF outfielders, and falls just short of the traditional markers without much in the trophy case. 2 ASG selections, one gold glove, one silver slugger, no chips, not even one top 10 MVP finish… While we understand his career better now to see how good he truly was, he wasn’t era defining or game changing either. He was just really good and underappreciated.
I’d like him because I’m a big hall guy, but I won’t lose sleep if he isn’t elected.
“not even one top 10 MVP finish”
I think that’s ultimately the biggest issue for Abreu. He never had THAT YEAR. His highest single season WAR was 6.6 which is great but doesn’t really stand out. For example, Todd Helton, who has a similar career WAR, had seasons of 8.9, 8.3, and 7.8 WAR.
In a similar, Abreu had 5 seasons in which he was in the top 10 in position player WAR for his league but his rankings were 7th, 8th, 9th, 10, and 10th. Helton also had 5 top 10 seasons but his rankings were 1st, 5th, 6th, 6th, and 8th.
Personally, I think both Helton and Abreu are borderline but I can see why voters prefer Helton.
The Astros regrettably chose to protect Richard Hidalgo over Abreu as their Venezuelan right fielder of the future in the expansion draft. I assume Hidalgo’s superior defensive profile tipped the scales in his favor for the Astros brass.
I have one question for you:
“Who let the dogs out?!”
Hidalgo did have that monster year in 2000, so it isn’t like busted, they both wound up to be good players.
Bobby Abreu > Harold Baines
Well, yeah, that much is obvious, but that certainly doesn’t solve the question of “Is Abreu a HOFer?”
For me, the answer is yes — he was truly great at one of the most important things you can do as a hitter: get on base.
I’d argue it’s THE most important thing.
I think it’s a slippery slope to reset baselines; does every player better than Baines make the HOF now?
There is very little daylight between Sheffield’s HOF case and Abreu’s. Their career and per/PA WAR are for practical purposes identical. I actually favor Abreu’s case ever so slightly because he had a distinctly compact 7 year consecutive peak where he essentially played at MVP level. Sheffield’s great seasons are more spaced apart as he would sandwich drop-off years in between the good ones. It’s much harder for teams to plan and budget for playoff pushes with that inconsistency. The only way I can see Sheffield’s case being greater than Abreu’s is if you distrust our defensive metrics when compared to offensive metrics, which is a fair argument. But we are talking fangraphs’ defensive metrics here, which are the gold standard. And on top of that, Abreu was the better baserunner.
Pre-2002 defensive metrics are exactly the same at FanGraphs as everywhere else.
To wit, the “gold standard” defensive metrics give a far better review of Sheffield’s OF defense in his late-30s than the pre-2002 metrics do of his late-20s.
Wouldn’t be surprised if TZ wackiness cost Sheff something like 5 WAR on his career and 3 on his peak…while UZR liked Bobby a whole lot less than TZ did.
Sheffield played less demanding positions in his late 30s than in his 20s so on some level, I’m not surprised to see that pattern with him.
I am specifically referring to his performance in the corner outfield, on a rate basis.
It’s also the case that the error margin with earlier defensive metrics points in both directions. The same inaccuracies that may have shorted Sheffield may have shorted Abreu, and whose to say that Sheffield’s case is hurt more by that. I think it’s tough to assume an invisible +5 relative WAR can be put squarely in Sheffield’s column when comparing the two.
…Sheffield played 900 more pre-UZR games than Abreu, haha.
TZ had Abreu as +28 in RF in 1998 and +15 in 2000. Given that Abreu generally wasn’t regarded as an elite defender, I’m comfortable saying that has wasn’t getting shorted by TZ early in his career.
Bobby Abreu is seriously one of the most underrated players of all time. He was an absolutely unique combination of power and speed. In the last 95 seasons since Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker retired, only 2 players have slugged for 0.475 or better and stolen 400 or more bases in their career— Barry Bonds and Bobby Abreu. Abreu is also 1 of only 6 players with 250 home runs and 400 stolen bases (Rickey Henderson, Barry Bonds, Bobby Bonds, Joe Morgan, and Craig Biggio are the others). Add in his incredible plate discipline. Abreu owns a career 0.395 OBP, ranks 20th all time in BB, and had 8 consecutive seasons 100+ walks. In terms of WAR, he accumulated 52.3 fWAR over the 10-year period 1998-2007 which ranks 7th overall and 1st among all RF during that period. So for a decade he was the most valuable RF in the game (even more so than his contemporary Vladimir Guerrero). Abreu was consistent, year after year putting up 5 and 6 WAR seasons as well as hardly ever missing a game (played 150+ games for 13 consecutive seasons).
The main problem people have with his candidacy is that all of his numbers when isolated do not scream “Hall of Famer”. However, when taken together he is a HOFer in my opinion. For example, in 2009 he became just the 6th player ever with 250 HRs, 2,000 H, 1,000 R, 1,000 RBI, 1,000 BB, and 300 SB. Individually, none of those stats are Hall-worthy but together they make something special. That is Bobby Abreu. For those interested, there are now 9 members of the 250 HRs, 2,000 H, 1,000 R, 1,000 RBI, 1,000 BB, and 300 SB club. They are: Barry Bonds, Willie Mays, Derek Jeter, Craig Biggio, Rickey Henderson, Carlos Beltran, Alex Rodriguez, Bobby Abreu and Joe Morgan. Pretty elite club.
Additionally, from 1945-2015, there are only players 9 who maintained a.300/.400/.500 slashline over any consecutive ten-year period in which they had at least 5000 PAs and NOT in the Hall of Fame.
Those unlinked to PEDs include (n=4):
Todd Helton, Bobby Abreu, Lance Berkman, and Bernie Williams.
Those linked to PEDs include (n=5):
Barry Bonds, Manny Ramirez, Alex Rodriguez, Gary Sheffield, and Jason Giambi.
Those already in HOF (n=9):
Chipper Jones, Edgar Martinez, Frank Thomas, Larry Walker, Jeff Bagwell, Wade Boggs, Frank Robinson, Mickey Mantle, and Stan Musial.
I honestly think that list of “No PEDs, not in the Hall” guys pretty perfectly captures how I see Abreu:
Wonderful Player.
Juuuuuuuust on the wrong side of borderline.
Those not yet eligible for HOF (n=2)
Albert Pujols, Miguel Cabrera
If you extend the end date a little past 2015, Joey Votto is also included.
If the Phillies are trying to campaign for Bobby’s HOF case, they ought to just copy and paste what you wrote.
Those are some exclusive clubs that he is a member of. I think he deserves to be elected into the Hall but I’m not optimistic he gets voted in
Also, since 1945 only 2 players have had at least 9 20 HR/20 SB seasons — Barry Bonds (10) and Bobby Abreu (9). Over the same span, Abreu also had 4 20/20 .300/400/.500 seasons — again Bonds is the only one with more (6). Mike Trout also has 4.
Sold me!
Great points. He has a very particular set of skills. Skills that you want on the field every day to score points and win baseball games. If you look at his Bref page, you’re overwhelmed by the relentless numbers and say “wow that’s what a hall of fame baseball career looks like.” There’s also the eye test for those that watched his games. When he was up to bat, you’d always think this guy is going to be really hard to get out. But you didn’t want to give up a homer and you didn’t want him on base. He was stressful to watch bat against your team.
You’ve heard of The Mendoza Line so please allow me to present to you The Abreu Line. Any player better than Bobby Abreu is a HOFer. Any player worse than Bobby Abreu is not a HOFer. He’s the cutoff line. Therefore, does being equal to The Abreu Line make make Bobby Abreu a HOFer?
I do this for pitchers with Mark Buehrle.
He’s Matt Ryan!
Schroedinger’s Bobby
yes
Posnanski has written eloquently about “baseball generalists,” e.g. players who do a ton of things well but without a standout or superlative skill. They tend to lack the same recognition as those players with superlative traits.
Bobby Abreu is, for me, the modern template of that player. I didn’t realize during his career just how good he was, and I never considered him a Hall of Famer.
But now I do. Especially when you can look at the defensive stats as fuzzy, as we’ve come to do. Abreu is another case of very different defensive metrics pre- and post-2002. You don’t have to adjust the defensive numbers too much from ’02 to ’07 to be looking at a 65-70 Win player instead of a 60-win player.
UZR data starts in 2002, though?
The +2.3 Defensive WAR from 1996-2001 is far more in question than the -16.4 from 2002-2014.
This, post-2002 defensive metrics are generally considered better than pre-2002 metrics. I question that +28 TZ number from 1998 more than any other season in his defensive profile.
When I think of Bobby Abreu, I think of a player who went from one of the most underrated players to one of the most overrated, particularly because of that Home Run Derby. That being said, for all of his tardiness, he was quite consistent, rarely injured and played in 150+ games for 13 straight years and not many players can say that.
There’s a lot going on with Abreu. His reputation was badly hurt by his starring years being on those toxic 2000s-era Phillies teams – “not blue collar enough” is one way to describe the reaction of the team and the city to him. Then once he was tagged with the being afraid of walls bit it was over. Hence you get moon brain stuff like “serial compiler” to describe an absolute stud player.
But alas, for me, Abreu falls just short of the Hall. He’s right on the cutoff line between in/out in terms of quality (as are Winfield/Guerrero/Sheffield), i.e. he’s at a spot where fame/impact on the game/etc starts to really matter. For better or worse, all three of those other dudes felt more impactful, and were certainly more famous.
Put it into words perfectly.
He’s almost a bizarro Lance Berkman – combine one’s peak with the other’s longevity, and you have a no-doubter.
Hell, give Abreu Berkman’s UZR/150 and he’s a clear-cut HoF.
Not sure I follow you there, Berkman does have a slightly better UZR/150 in the OF than Abreu, but he mostly quit playing the outfield at 31 (besides 2011 at age 35 where he was quite bad out there). So pretty much all of Abreu’s time measured by UZR was after Berkman got moved to 1B.
Abreu’s career in Philadelphia overlapped with my deep dive as a young man into fantasy baseball. Let me tell you, Bobby Abreu was underrated HOF gold for me.
I was shocked reading here that he was not an All-Star until age 30. Seeing such little recognition from his contemporaries does make one pause. I had also not heard of his chronic tardiness and general “you need to try harder” reputation.
All that said…Abreu feels like the type of player the Cooperstown Casebook would champion, should Abreu have played 20-30 years earlier. (Caveat that I haven’t read the book, but I’ve read 90% of everything Jay has published on FG, so feel comfortable tossing it out there.)
Would that I have a vote, I would do what Jay did – if I don’t have a full ballot Abreu likely gets a vote, to give a player like that a chance to pick up momentum.
To me Abreu is the absolute prototype of a Hall of Very Good player. Made his team better almost the whole time he was playing, but never at any time really stood out as a superstar or one of the best players (in baseball, as a hitter, or at his position).
my personal bias is everyone who eclipses 60 fWar should be voted in. But specifically, Abreau because that OB% combined with the speed was something special. He is basically Bonds without steroids. That alone should get more votes. If steroids had not been a thing Abreau is top 5 in the game his entire career.