Mariners Sign Jorge Polanco, Condemn Themselves to Competence

Joe Nicholson-USA TODAY Sports

Let’s get this out of the way at the start: The Mariners are pretty good. Their starting pitching is incredible, and some projections systems even think they have a top-10 offense. This is not a Pirates situation, where a core led by Paul Skenes on a league-minimum contract is somehow projected to finish well under .500. In Seattle, the pieces are almost all there. Sadly for fans, “almost all there” might well define this era of Mariners baseball.

The latest expression of Seattle’s complacency came last week, when the team brought back Jorge Polanco on a one year, $7.75 million contract. (The deal is pending a physical.) According to a report from Adam Jude at the Seattle Times, Polanco’s signing means the “Mariners’ roster is effectively set.” For those counting at home, $3.5 million for 37-year-old Donovan Solano, a trade for Austin Shenton, and the Polanco deal represent the entirety of Seattle’s offseason roster upgrades. The Mariners missed the playoffs by one game in 2023 and 2024; they missed it by two games in 2021. They are always good but never great. And the team — or at least ownership — appears totally fine with that.

Mariners president of baseball operations Jerry Dipoto caught a lot of heat for his 2023 comment that “those teams that win 54% of the time always wind up in the postseason,” and in all honesty I think the intent of that comment was widely misrepresented. (The line in that same presser that they were “actually doing the fanbase a favor” a couple days after they missed the playoffs probably deserved more scorn.) But the reason it sticks around, I think, is because the Mariners, as a franchise, seem hellbent on leveraging an excellent cost-controlled core to win exactly 89 games every season.

Since 2021, the Mariners have won 54.47% of their regular season games. Despite sitting at that sweet spot of the projected win totals, year in and year out, where the value of a marginal win is greatest, the organization refuses to spend in free agency to make even a somewhat risky long-term bet.

Vince Gennaro and Nate Silver’s win curve from the late 2000s.

To the Mariners’ credit, they’ve traded for some impactful players; they even signed one of those players, Luis Castillo, to a nine-figure extension. (Pay no mind to the fact that they’ve reportedly tried to offload the back half of that contract this offseason.) The most recent of these trades brought Randy Arozarena to the club last July. He’ll now spend two more years under team control on contracts that are both artificially suppressed and still somewhat pricey. (Arozarena is slated to make $11.3 million in the upcoming season.)

And there is some reason for Seattle to avoid long-term commitments to any infielders given the prospects coming through the ranks. Jude points out that the state of the major league roster opens the door for top prospect Cole Young to win a job out of spring training, or Ryan Bliss to make a short-term play for the second base gig. Prospect evaluators disagree on the quality of the Mariners’ minor league depth, but at least one sees their prospects as the best in the sport, defined largely by their crop of position player prospects creeping toward the high minors.

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It also must be said that to some extent they must account for the contracts of the Mitches. This season, they will spend 18% of their payroll on two players whose projections are uncomfortably close to replacement level: Mitch Garver and Mitch Haniger. At least Garver can slot in as an expensive backup catcher, but Haniger absorbs a roster spot and $15.5 million of precious payroll space, ostensibly limiting Seattle’s ability to splash cash on the open market.

But the Mitches are only a limitation in a world where ownership — led by John Stanton — refuses to entertain anything other than a middle-of-the-pack payroll. Missing the playoffs by one game for the second consecutive year and responding by making Polanco the marquee signing is an abdication of responsibility as stewards of this club. In 2022, the Mariners led all of MLB in operating income. It would be misguided to think that they couldn’t comfortably add $30 million to the payroll to make a push for the division title.

So instead of signing Alex Bregman to fill their third base hole, they brought back Polanco. Third base? Yes, even though Polanco played second base for the Mariners last year, he is reportedly going to slide over to the hot corner this season.

At first glance, this looks like a curious choice. Polanco posted -8 DRS and -10 OAA in his 112 games as a second baseman last season; that latter mark ranked in the second percentile for his position. His arm strength (75.6 mph) would have ranked as the slowest among all major league third basemen. Why make a poor defender with a noodle arm on the wrong side of 30 switch to a position where he’ll have to make even longer throws?

The Mariners, evidently, think it will help “keep him healthier,” according to Jude’s report. I’m not exactly sure I follow the logic there, but I do have an alternative theory for why they think the position switch might suit him.

When I went to Polanco’s Statcast fielding page, I noticed that he rated especially poor when he was moving to his right, and third basemen typically do not have to move much in that specific lateral direction. Perhaps Polanco’s defensive value would improve by eliminating his most glaring weakness.

I wanted to take a closer look. Unfortunately, MLB Advanced Media makes this extremely difficult. My hope was to watch Polanco’s 20 worst plays or so by OAA to identify potential patterns. While MLB does have this sort of information available for outfielders on a play-by-play basis, the situation is slightly more complicated for infielders. For those on the dirt, they provide a long JSON string with OAA value per play, but only some identifying information — the batter handedness, the home park, the launch speed, and the month in which the play occurred.

So in order to figure out which plays of Polanco’s resulted in the most negative OAA, I first had to scrape that JSON string, then convert that JSON string into a workable dataframe. Once I had that data sorted by negative OAA, I had to manually identify every single play by inputting the parameters I outlined above into a Statcast search. In nearly all cases, there was only one play that matched each description, so I could confidently assert which plays aligned with which lines in the data. But please MLB, there is an easier way: Just put the playid in the description! Why are you making me go on a scavenger hunt? Help me help you!

Anyway, I spent a couple hours doing this in order to bring you, my dear reader, only the finest defensive analysis. And thankfully this work wasn’t in vain. I watched all of Polanco’s plays where the batter reached base despite an estimated success rate of at least 70%. That included all seven of his errors as well as 15 plays that were scored base hits.

On three of those hits, Polanco tried and failed to go to his left. Four were hot shots right at him that he couldn’t quite corral. But the majority — nine in all — featured Polanco moving to his right.

Across all the plays I viewed, this was the most common sight:

And this:

And this:

And this:

Polanco won’t have to make plays like these at third base. Is that enough to guarantee success? No. But it’s a reason why he might be better there than up the middle.

But Polanco’s Mariners fate won’t be tied to his defense. It’s the bat that pays his bills, and it’s the bat that will make or break his value to the club.

There is far less mystery with the bat. Polanco’s goal is straight forward: Pull the ball in the air. Kyle Bland’s Batted Ball Metrics app shows the distribution of a batter’s balls in play relative to league average. Polanco’s tells a pretty clear story:

The whole value proposition of a guy like Polanco is his ability to lift balls to the pull side — this is his approach from both the left and right side of the plate. He doesn’t crush the ball, ranking in the 19th percentile in bat speed, but he gets to his power ceiling by attacking pitches out in front with one of the steepest vertical bat angles in the league. He’s even capable of unleashing an uppercut swing on slower velocity at the top of the zone, as Ronel Blanco discovered after hanging a changeup in May:

In his best years, Polanco married this aggressive approach with relatively low strikeout rates; in 2021, when he jacked 33 home runs, he struck out just 18.3% of the time. Because of Polanco’s extreme air approach — over the last three years, he’s hit the sixth-fewest groundballs of hitters with at least 1,000 plate appearances — he’s susceptible to low BABIPs, meaning it’s important for him to put as many balls in play as possible.

As one might expect given Seattle’s extreme park effects, that strikeout rate went running in the wrong direction last season. In Seattle, when batting left-handed, he struck out nearly 37% of the time. Granted, Polanco battled knee and hamstring issues last year, and that strikeout rate ticked down after his return in July. There are stories you could tell to convince yourself that Polanco will return to a league-average level with the stick, and perhaps even be a little better than that.

There’s nothing wrong with Polanco, but there’s something wrong with the fact that he’s the premium roster upgrade for a Seattle team so close to excellence. The Mariners, as always, are just good enough to compete for a Wild Card. Given the core, and given the club’s lack of even a pennant-winning season across its nearly 50 years of existence, “just good enough” is not acceptable.





Michael Rosen is a transportation researcher and the author of pitchplots.substack.com. He can be found on Twitter at @bymichaelrosen.

85 Comments
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Mitchell MooreMember since 2020
1 year ago

The Mariners ought to be ashamed of themselves.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  Mitchell Moore

“Big .540 energy” is absolutely the vibe here

AlbyMember since 2025
1 year ago
Reply to  Mitchell Moore

That projection system placing them No. 9 in offense should be, too.

LaBellaVitaMember since 2018
1 year ago
Reply to  Alby

Why? They were 12th last year. wRC+ adjusts for park effects. If anything, their pitching staff is overrated. 9th by fWAR despite being 2nd in ERA. T-Mobile is a cold, dark, sea-level tomb for batters. Utopia for pitchers.

vbjd1111Member since 2019
1 year ago
Reply to  Alby

It’s not just one system. Steamer has them 10th; ATC has them 11th; THE BAT has them T7; ZiPS has them T5; OOPSY has them T8. The average of the five has them 9th. Courtesy Thomas Nestico (@TJStats). https://x.com/TJStats/status/1886506940626358394/photo/1

Mario MendozaMember since 2017
1 year ago

the knee and hamstring are often cited for his offensive troubles last year, so I suppose the same asterisk should be applied to his defense last year. Not that he was ever a great defender in MIN, either.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  Mario Mendoza

The problem with the “he was hurt last year” defense is that he is hurt all the time now.

This was also one of the main problems with hoping Luis Urias bounced back.

slz
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

“Middle infielder (well, not anymore) on the wrong side of 30 gets injured a lot” is not an archetype that stops getting injured typically, which is why a guy with 16 career WAR is signing 1 year deals for under $10M

Mitchell MooreMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  Mario Mendoza

Polanco didn’t set a career high 29% K-rate, or the ugly 32% rate at home, because of injury.

sadhulkMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  Mitchell Moore

The cause of his career high K rate was a career low contact % on swings. It was down to 73.6%, 10 percent worse than in his prime. A lower body soft tissue injury would definitely have an impact on his swing if he was playing through discomfort.

I’m skeptical a 32 year old with a lengthy injury history can avoid that discomfort going forward, but injuries are a valid explanation for his struggles.

Mitchell MooreMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  sadhulk

I might be inclined to give Polanco’s bat the benefit of the injury doubt if his career arc didn’t show:
2021: 18.3 K%
2022: 21.3 K%
2023: 25.7 K%
2024: 29.2 K%
That looks to me like a guy whose batting skills are in serious decline.

Jason BMember since 2017
1 year ago
Reply to  Mitchell Moore

You should make your services available, this team could use another Mitch

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  Mitchell Moore

Why would we just look at K rate to determine that he’s in decline?

2021: wRC+ 124 xWOBA .348
2022: 118, .358
2023: 117, .348
2024: 92, .309

Last year was poor, no doubt, and maybe he’s finished as a useful player. But he was quite solid with the stick in all of 2021-2023, and ZiPS is still in for a wRC+ of 106 this year.

Last edited 1 year ago by cowdisciple
dangledangleMember since 2024
1 year ago
Reply to  sadhulk

The sads are multiplying

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  dangledangle

I am of no relation to sadhulk, even though I approve of the name.

I am, however, related to James Trombone, Renee Trombone, and David Trombone.

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

And do you find something funny about the word “tromboner”?

waiverwirewizardMember since 2023
1 year ago

What’s being discounted is the return of two lethal weapons in the bullpen in Matt Brash (at some point) and Gregory Santos. Full year of Troy Taylor. Pen was good last year but could combine with that rotation to really suppress offenses.

Randy had a good year if you erase his awful March-mid May. Julio had a down year and is still maturing. Crawford healthy will help too as he soaks up a lot of opposing pitchers pitches per plate appearance. I know it’s not sexy but with their farm could easily make a deadline move like they did last year for Randy.

Cole Young and Locklear could definitely have an impact too. Call me a believer in Mariners playoff chances.

disturb189
1 year ago

Actually, the pen was pretty bad last year. They started out okay but finished pretty badly. It could be argued the pen is more the reason why the M’s didn’t make the playoffs than the offense. Relying on Santos and Brash coming back and being effective is a stretch.

And assuming Crawford and Polanco will bounce back, Julio will have finally put it together for a full season, and that Robles will repeat what he did after coming to Seattle is unlikely.

I would love to think otherwise, but I don’t have much faith. Ownership sucks and won’t give Jerry and Justin the money to actually compete cause they only care about profits.

Mitchell MooreMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  disturb189

Indeed. For all the yammering about the lineup’s problem scoring runs, the bullpen absolutely killed them the second half.

waiverwirewizardMember since 2023
1 year ago

Additional thought. Why isnt Yoan Moncada being pursued more. He is a better reclamation bet than Polanco

TerryMc
1 year ago

Is he? Steamer and Zips have them basically identical.

slamcactusMember since 2024
1 year ago

Color me skeptical that the return of a couple solid setup relievers and more playing time for a R/R 1B who K’d 40% of the time in his debut are what’s going to put this team over the top. For one, injuries happen every year and while it’s nice to dream on getting those guys back at full strength *and not losing anyone else*, that rarely happens.

There are some nice prospects on the farm but it would take a pretty huge breakout for any of them to contribute meaningfully in 2025. Not impossible, but it’s not any more likely than, say, Carter/Langford both taking large steps forward and helping the Rangers put the Ms firmly in their rear view, or Cam Smith rocketing through Houston’s system all the way to the bigs. In fact, I think either of those things is considerably more likely than Young making an impact this year.

It’s usually nice to have a plan that’s meaningfully better than hoping your team wins the player development breakout lottery.

Last edited 1 year ago by slamcactus
mikejuntMember
1 year ago

89 win teams make the playoffs all the time. This feels like an excellent illustration of how Mariners fans were so starved for a competitive team for so long that they can’t tell respectability from serious contender.

I think the Mariners are probably over 50% to make the playoffs. I also think that they’re likely to be the team every other AL team hopes they get to play if they do make the field.

Dominikk85Member since 2020
1 year ago

One issue is that many people underestimate how tough it is to generate stars.

Understandably Forward thinking GMs do like a good process, good development, a sustainable success and a replenishing pipeline of players and all that is important but while good development teams are good at producing 1.5-2.5 war players it is very tough to project the creation of 4+ war players.

Even the dodgers who are insanely good at all the processes only had had 3 home grown players under the age of 27 having a 4+ win season (will smith, James outman, Julio urias) since 2021.

What that means is don’t take your stars for granted. This doesn’t mean that you should trade away every prospect and not care for depth, that stuff is important but you can’t assume that you will be able to get another 3-4 relatively cost controlled starters projected to be at plus 3 war.

The mariners do have some decent hitting peospect down there and that is great but you probably can’t assume that when they are ready your pitching is still where it is.

This window of having 4-5 really good starters really is a big chance that might not come back so quickly.

The mariners front office probably sees it as “we built a sustainable winner with a good process, and even if we don’t make it every year the process is still right” and that view is not totally wrong but more negatively you could also say “they lucked into a historical rotation and the team around that is more of a .500 team or so that is kept afloat by that rotation.

Last edited 1 year ago by Dominikk85
dl80Member since 2026
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominikk85

I think they are essentially saying the quiet part out loud: “The playoffs are a crapshoot and just getting in should be the goal.”

EonADSMember since 2024
1 year ago
Reply to  dl80

* “If you don’t have a super-team payroll, at least.”

Pretty sure the Dodgers will have a better shot even if everything is a crapshoot. The better your players, the better results you get with the Pendulum of Nonsense swings your way.

fjtorres
1 year ago
Reply to  EonADS

Dodgers play with loaded dice.

disturb189
1 year ago
Reply to  dl80

The problem is, they don’t spend enough money to actually make the playoffs.

slamcactusMember since 2024
1 year ago
Reply to  disturb189

While that’s certainly true given the lack of immediate help on the farm, I’d probably phrase it: “they didn’t build a good enough team to give themselves a good shot at the playoffs.”

From a PR standpoint, the Ms were moderately successful for a few years writing impatient fans off as just wanting them to spend for the sake of spending. Not all teams need to spend to contend. But this team does. It’s graduated its core, additional pieces aren’t ready yet (if they ever will be), and it doesn’t project as a contender without real improvements.

Last edited 1 year ago by slamcactus
fjtorres
1 year ago
Reply to  disturb189

Depth matters.
Injuries happen to everybody so having reasonable backups is important. But since they are just backups they don’t necessarily require big contracts. A lot of teams stockpile contingencies at AAA; third and fourth catchers, fifth and sixth OF, the odd AAAA bat.
Depth isn’t just the 26 man roster. It’s also the AAA shuttle.

slamcactusMember since 2024
1 year ago
Reply to  dl80

But if “just getting in should be the goal” you should really be shooting for 92+ wins, not 86-88. Build a team that projections peg for 88 wins and 84 is just as likely as 92. Build a team that projects at 92+, and even your 35th-40th percentile outcomes give you a shot at the postseason.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  slamcactus

This is exactly right—92 wins and not 88 wins should be the target. They’re on the part of the curve where an extra win increases the likelihood of getting into the playoffs a lot.

dl80Member since 2026
1 year ago
Reply to  slamcactus

Fair point!

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  dl80

Getting in is the goal, I guess. If they succeed they can look forward to being heavy underdogs in virtually every matchup and a quick exit. It’s fun! This Twins fan wishes them all the best.

dl80Member since 2026
1 year ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

The best teams rarely win. Even the juggernaut Dodgers have 2 rings since the string of dominance started in 2013. Since 2021, 4 of the 8 teams in the World Series won 90 or fewer games.

The goal should be to get into the playoffs with 90-93 wins every year and hope the luck goes your way.

Last edited 1 year ago by dl80
slamcactusMember since 2024
1 year ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

Getting in is for sure the goal. It’s always better to be better but at the start of the playoffs the best team on the planet still only has something like a 22% chance to win it all.

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  slamcactus

Sure, and the underdog generally has (by Fangraphs odds) about a 2% chance. Last year the Brewers were 1.5%.

slamcactusMember since 2024
1 year ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

That’s a pretty extreme underdog scenario, but yeah, a WC team that needs to win 4 series instead of 3 would have a 2.5% chance if you were to give it a 40% chance to win each series, which feels about right in the aggregate (it’s probably more like 45-47% for the first series, then declining for each successive from there as the series get longer and opposition gets better).

slamcactusMember since 2024
1 year ago
Reply to  slamcactus

And obviously 22% is way better than 2%, but it’s not really a choice between 2% and 22%. I’m as big a skeptic as anyone about supposed “small market” teams crying poverty, but every team can’t just wake up and decide to be the Dodgers/Yankees, either.

The single biggest odds-mover is only having to win 3 series instead of 4. But if you think you’re not likely to get one of those 2 spots, the financial calculus is weighing the odds of 0% chance (missing the playoffs) against the cost/reward of moving from ~2.5% to, say 6% by being the best team in the WC rounds.

All that being said, yes, as a fan it’s better to be better, both to improve your team’s odds of making the playoffs and of doing well once it gets there. Anyone who calls themselves a fan would have to be a maniac to disagree with that.

But also, as a fan, I consider any playoff season a success.

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  slamcactus

I agree with that. I’m heartily sick of the argument that because an underdog occasionally wins a playoff series baseball has acceptable parity.

Last edited 1 year ago by cowdisciple
SportszillaMember since 2017
1 year ago
Reply to  Dominikk85

It’s not a historic rotation. It’s a historic outlier of a ballpark and a good rotation.

And if it’s a historic rotation, why exactly would this front office not get credit for it, when four of those pitchers were draft picks (including a 4th rounder and a 6th rounder), and Castillo was acquired by trading away other prospects they signed.

Last edited 1 year ago by Sportszilla
slamcactusMember since 2024
1 year ago
Reply to  Sportszilla

What makes you think they don’t get credit for it? The Ms’ FO is pretty much universally lauded for its ability to draft and develop pitchers and keep them healthy.

The problem is that skill hasn’t been good enough to make up for their other shortcomings. Namely, so far the FO’s been well below average at (1) developing offensive talent (they’ve only graduated 2 impact hitters in 10 years) and (2) acquiring offensive talent (1 or more of their big offseason acquisitions has been near or below replacement level each of the last 3 years).

Last edited 1 year ago by slamcactus
sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago

This team desperately needs some good hitters at second and third base. They can’t easily upgrade anywhere else, especially with Solano probably platooning with Raley and the DH spot occupied by unfortunate contracts.

I can sort of buy the whole “let’s not block Cole Young and Colt Emerson” thing at second base, but even that is a stretch. If they got a bat-first guy at 2B like Brandon Lowe his contract probably would end or he would shift to first and DH at some point. But the idea of doing nothing there and also bringing back Polanco to play third is ridiculous. It’s like the Mariners have just given up.

disturb189
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Technically, they could upgrade in outfield but would rather rely on the likely fool’s gold that is Robles’ time in Seattle last year.

I guarantee that Seattle will be trying to get Robert at the deadline again this year if he isn’t traded before the season starts.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  disturb189

Raley can move back to the outfield as well, though. That would mean playing Solano full time at first base though, not sure I would like that, but it’s better than playing Polanco at third.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Looking at Solano’s defensive stats, he hasn’t played a lot at third but he seems to grade out a bit better there than at first. Maybe they could switch Polanco between first and DH. If he hits.

sadhulkMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

The rumors were the Rays wanted Harry Ford for Lowe which I’m fine with them passing on. I think they really missed on not trading for Naylor or Burger.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  sadhulk

I would do that deal if I was the Mariners. Or at least I would do a deal with that general framework. I like Harry Ford as a prospect but Lowe isn’t exactly a rental and is a great fit for what they need (and has hit well in Seattle too!).

slamcactusMember since 2024
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Eh, if Ford doesn’t either take a huge jump forward with the bat this year or finally prove he can catch, there’s a good chance he falls out of the top prospect discussion entirely. Barring the aforementioned huge jump, if he’s not a C he probably settles in as an OF tweener with solid 4th OF upside.

If that deal was really on the table (and I doubt it was) I suspect Lowe’s salary would be a bigger reason the Ms would say no than not wanting to trade Ford.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  slamcactus

Ford’s receiving needs more work but to me mostly he’s dealing with prospect fatigue. People just keep expecting him to be ready, but he did pretty well in AA with the bat. I think the worst case scenario looks Tom Murphy-ish. I also see some Alex Avila and Travis d’Arnaud here, and there’s an outside chance he hits like Cal Raleigh. That’s a pretty good prospect!

Doesn’t really help them if they still have Raleigh, though.

slamcactusMember since 2024
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

None of those comps are on the table if he can’t catch in the big leagues. And the Raleigh comp strikes me as pretty out there. He’s got nothing like Raleigh’s power.

I don’t think it’s prospect fatigue so much as you can’t coast on first-round pedigree forever just by holding your own at each level. Guys who are solid but not spectacular at every step aren’t great prospects. With the gap between minors and majors as wide as ever, by definition you pretty much need to be spectacular in the minors to project for an impact big-league career.

The exception is guys who are locks to play a premium position. But heading into his 4th full season as a pro (5th overall), good luck finding an evaluator who thinks Ford fits that bill.

slamcactusMember since 2024
1 year ago
Reply to  sadhulk

If the Ms turned down Lowe for Ford they’re fools.

I doubt it was really on offer though. There might’ve been some early-offseason chatter about the Rays trading Lowe but they ended the offseason as buyers, not sellers or even retoolers.

Apart from that, if they were willing to trade Lowe for a Ford-level prospect, some team probably would’ve made that deal by now, or at a minimum there would be a lot more “Rays fielding offers on Lowe” rumors.

Last edited 1 year ago by slamcactus
PC1970Member since 2024
1 year ago

The thing that would scare me the most if I were the M’s or their fans is that they have been incredibly lucky with SP injuries.

The Big 5- Kirby, Gilbert, Castillo, Miller, Woo had 149 starts last year. They had 139 in 2023, partly because Woo & Miller came up mid-year. The cast was different in 2022 (add in Ray, Marco Gonzales, Flexen until Castillo was acquired, no Woo, no Miller) but, they got 157 starts from the 5 rotation spots (I’m putting together Flexen/Castillo into 1 spot because Flexen went to the BP once Castillo was acquired).

No TJ’s, no one missing 3 months with an injury, etc.

They’re walking the tightrope. If 1-2 starters get hurt, even if it’s for 4-6 weeks, they will not have the offense to offset the increase in runs allowed..& they, again, are right at that point where even losing 2-3 games will be the difference between the post-season or staying home.

disturb189
1 year ago
Reply to  PC1970

I agree to an extent. I don’t think it’s just about luck. They are very good at managing their starters. Despite pitching more innings than any other staff in baseball, they were often very cautious and took pitchers out under Servais to the chagrin of many fans. Wilson, on the other hand, was willing to let the starters stay out there longer which worked for the short time he was manager in 2024, but I’m not sure is a good idea long term.

With all the injuries to pitchers nowadays, I would much rather them be cautious and hand the ball to the pen. The M’s are extremely thin after the starting five and giving someone like Hancock a significant amount of starts could tank the season.

slamcactusMember since 2024
1 year ago
Reply to  PC1970

It absolutely is what scares us the most.

Well, that and Julio regressing

The two things that scare us the most are SP health and Julio regressing. And nice red uniforms. And a fanatical devotion to the pope.

Jason BMember since 2017
1 year ago
Reply to  slamcactus

Amongst our fears are such diverse elements as…

guyarrigoniMember since 2024
1 year ago

Jed Hoyer shoots for .525 (strive for 85!) with the same hope, appear like a post season team but avoid the whole “what do you have to do to win it all” pressure. such teams typically feature players at every position who can be defended as “competent” and hope that maybe next year they will play above reasonable expectations.

David Klein
1 year ago

Man it is a damn shame an elite rotation is being wasted like this, and there’s no guaranteed they’ll all remain healthy as they’ve mostly been the last few years. I mean even the Wilpons saw how big of a strength the Mets rotation was in 2015, and how the offense was wasting their efforts, and they green lighted the front office to trade for Cespedes and the rest is pennant winning history. Yeah, the Mariners are a playoff contender as constructed but that has a lot to do with how weak the al is as well and a move here and there and they could win the division, but nope.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  David Klein

This was kind of how I felt about the Brewers and their Burnes-Woodruff-Peralta rotation. It was a real shame they couldn’t be bothered to put together a good enough group of position players with them in 2021 and 2022. They should have just spent some money.

I liked the Arozarena deal a lot but this team is just as allergic to spending money as the Brewers were, despite having way higher revenues. Come on Mariners! You can do better than this!

slamcactusMember since 2024
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

What Ms fans wouldn’t give for even half the success the Brewers have had over the past 7 years…

KenMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

It’s almost a crime that the Mariners ownership is so damn cheap. They do a lot of things well, but spending money to move from putting a good team on the field to a very good team is not one of them.

Letting Teoscar go without a qualifying offer was ludicrously stupid, as there was no danger of him accepting one. I don’t blame the FO for this, as they were almost certainly instructed in this manner.

Years of watching this team make horrendous decisions (deciding not to keep prime Randy Johnson; trading Jason Varitek and Rob Lowe for Heathcliffe Slocumb; young Adam Jones and Chris Tillman for Eric Bedard) has left me to believe it will never win a World Series unless they get an ownership that truly values winning for its fan base.

It doesn’t matter if the FO is brilliant if they aren’t given the latitude to spend a reasonable amount of money to upgrade positions at a time when, as this article vividly points out, there is leverage based on their position on the expected win curve.

(down from soapbox)

Sorry. Longtime frustrated Mariners fan.

tiffanybee
1 year ago
Reply to  Ken

Derek Lowe

slamcactusMember since 2024
1 year ago
Reply to  tiffanybee

This is the first I’m hearing of a Rob Lowe trade and I’m incensed.

nathanjMember since 2024
1 year ago

Not clear on the Mariner IF plan if Polanco moves to 3b. Does Moore or (checking name) Solano play 2b until Young is ready?

seattlefan68Member since 2026
1 year ago
Reply to  nathanj

Moore and/or Bliss most likely.

disturb189
1 year ago
Reply to  nathanj

Polanco is going to 3B, Moore will probably share 2B with Bliss, and Raley and Solano will platoon at 1B.

slamcactusMember since 2024
1 year ago
Reply to  nathanj

Lip service will be paid to Young having a chance to win it in ST but smart money says he won’t (and probably shouldn’t) and the bulk of 2B PA will be divided between Moore, Bliss, and Leo Rivas, only one of whom (Moore) really has any business earning PA on a contending team (and that one only as a utility guy).

Roger McDowell Hot Foot
1 year ago

How good would this team be if they just signed Bregman and Alonso right now? Jeez.

slamcactusMember since 2024
1 year ago

They’d project to be better by about 4-4.5 wins. So, like, 89-90 instead of 85? Bregman and Alonso probably project for somewhere north of 6, but they don’t project to get nothing from 3B/1B right now, and Polanco would need to slide back over.

That’d be a pretty big improvement, but…TBH getting the team to that level would feel closer to the bare minimum level of commitment fans expected during those years when ownership said they were saving money to spend when the time was right instead of creating some sort of juggernaut/prohibitive favorite.

Wild to think that it’s 100% unrealistic that this FA would do something as underwhelming as push in to build an on-paper 90-win team.

Roger McDowell Hot Foot
1 year ago
Reply to  slamcactus

Yeah, exactly. There aren’t that many times a team has an opportunity this clean and simple to use free agency to add the exact 4-5 wins that it needs at the exact time it needs them. This should be the baseline expectation, not some wild fantasy. This is what free agency is for!

RoyalsFan#14321Member since 2024
1 year ago

The balls he misses to his right will go for two bases inside of one, great.

slamcactusMember since 2024
1 year ago

All the videos were when he had to take 2 or more steps to his right.

Not many screaming liners just inside the foul line give any 3B (even a Beltre/Rolen) time for 2+ steps. I think it’s his arm that will be driving us crazy at 3B, not his range to his right.

Chili Davis Eyes
1 year ago

[watches videos]

Well at least the fans love him. They’re all saying “Pooo-lonco”.

Jason BMember since 2017
1 year ago

I was saying “Pooo-lanco”…..

YabaDabaBaddooMember since 2021
1 year ago

Excellent analysis on the defensive shift for Polanco from 2b to 3b. Genuinely wouldn’t have expected that theory but it has some legs, imo.

3cardmontyMember since 2025
1 year ago

There’s nothing wrong with Polanco, but there’s something wrong with the fact that he’s the premium roster upgrade for a Seattle team so close to excellence.

The first thing wrong with it is the team declined his option a few months ago and then brought him back at a lower salary. You can’t call him an upgrade over himself, I don’t think. I definitely agree with the broader sentiment though.

Runaway ToasterMember since 2016
1 year ago

You know the old guard has moved on when this article is 12 hours old and there isn’t a single “#6 Organization” joke. 15 years is a long time!

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
1 year ago

15 years?

I refuse to believe that, haha!

tiffanybee
1 year ago

Wow. We are old. I remember that like it was yesterday.

slamcactusMember since 2024
1 year ago

In fairness they were never all that funny.

It sure was funny, though, when we learned Zduriencik was just another Bavasi who never learned to look past baseball card numbers, and that his ego was so big he decided to kick the assistants responsible for his success to the curb so he could run things himself.

TerryMc
1 year ago

“In 2022, the Mariners led all of MLB in operating income” please tell me more Magic Eight Ball!

Yeah, no chance that the big market teams are not just obfuscating their revenue streams.

JohnnyRingoFWC
1 year ago

Seems they could have put a better deal together for Bellinger than the Yankees did. Not sure how it would have played out. And, do hitters really want to play there? I thought the park favored pitchers? Thus, it would not surprise me if they miss out on certain free agents.

tiffanybee
1 year ago
Reply to  JohnnyRingoFWC

Look at Beltre’s stats when he played there in his prime.

slamcactusMember since 2024
1 year ago
Reply to  JohnnyRingoFWC

You have to try for free agents to miss out on them.

I’m sure there are a few who’ve said they’d require more money to come to Seattle because they don’t like the park, but that’s not terribly different than the rest of free agency.

With only rare exceptions, the team that signs a free agent is the one that offers more money than every other team did. Which means it’s the team that pays more than the rest of the league was willing to pay.

Also it’d sure be nice if Seattle got to take advantage of the flip side and was seen as particularly appealing to FA pitchers, but we’ve never seen much evidence that’s the case.

Last edited 1 year ago by slamcactus
tiffanybee
1 year ago

All the projections see almost a 2 win player here? I’d be thrilled to see even 1. They are paying for around…0.7?

Contract is fine but as the article says, what a disappointing waste of this rotation, largely in its prime.