Money Is No Object: Mets Re-Sign Nimmo, Add Robertson, Might Sign You Next!

Brandon Nimmo
Brad Penner-USA TODAY Sports

The Mets, who had gone some three days since singing a top free agent, went shopping again on Thursday evening. Brandon Nimmo was a sort of Aaron Judge situation-in-miniature: a New York team flirted with losing its best outfielder before realizing it’d be more trouble than it was worth to replace him. Best just to bring him back, even if it meant making him rich beyond the wildest fantasies of avarice.

Nimmo, the no. 9 player overall on our top 50 free agent list and no. 2 outfielder behind Judge, got paid quite a bit more than our projections, which is emerging as something of a theme this offseason. The readers thought he’d make an even $100 million over five years; Ben Clemens had Nimmo penciled in for $110 million over the same time frame. Instead, Nimmo has signed for eight years and $162 million.

To put that number in context: for $162 million, Nimmo could buy this 15-foot-by-25-foot inflatable water slide for every single one of the 578,000-plus residents of his native Wyoming. (Wayfair says two-day shipping is free for a purchase of this size. We shall see.) He’d then have enough left over to pay the $10 million the Mets agreed to pay relief pitcher David Robertson in their second major signing of the evening. And even after that he’d have some $1.2 million left over. Maybe he could spend that on a new garden hose or swim trunks so as to get the most out of the water slide.

Nimmo was a highly sought-after player at this week’s Winter Meetings, and as recently as Tuesday, the Mets were putting out the notion that they might lose him to a higher bidder. But despite not being a nationally-known star on the level of a Judge or a Justin Verlander, the Mets could ill afford to lose their center fielder.

I’ve written about Nimmo numerous times in the past three months, in the context of the Mets’ hit-by-pitch issues, Scott Boras’ puns, and the capsule for the top-50 free agent list. The book on him remains the same now; moreover, this is not a scenario in which he is leaving for a new park, a new role, or a team that might change his swing to unlock more power. He and the Mets know each other intimately.

Nevertheless, it’s worth revisiting briefly what makes him such a good player. Nimmo is the kind of player for whom the word “hitter” utterly fails to sum up his offensive skill set. He’s a leadoff man who can play center but will probably evolve into a good corner outfielder as he gets into his 30s; on paper, that also describes George Springer, who signed a six-year, $150 million contract before the 2020 season. But Springer hit 39 home runs in his walk year; Nimmo has hit 40 in the past four seasons combined. Even though he was the no. 2 outfielder in this class, he was not the kind of player teams would go after if they missed out on Judge. He’s never hit 20 home runs in a season or slugged .500. Judge hit 62 home runs last year; Nimmo’s career high in extra-base hits is 53. Despite well above-average speed and clear baseball nous, he’s never stolen more than nine bases in a season. (Another thing he shares with Springer: an absolutely atrocious career stolen base success rate for a fast guy, just 62%.)

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So what does he do? [snaps fingers and points to Jonah Hill as crypto-Paul DePodesta in Moneyball] He gets on base. Nimmo is one of the most patient hitters in the league; since 2016, he has as many seasons with an OBP over .400 as below. He’s never posted a walk rate under 10%, and he’s an absolute magnet for pitched baseballs — and let’s be honest, knowing nothing about him other than he runs to first after a walk, you’d have bet every dollar you have that he gets hit by a lot of pitches. He is — and this isn’t going to sound like the highest praise I can lavish on a player, but I promise it is — what you’d get if Brandon Guyer got to hit against only left-handed pitching.

There are reasons not to like Nimmo: the lack of power, the injury history, the lack of stolen base production, the 34-point drop in OBP this past season. Even aesthetically, his hustle-and-grind act has its constituency to be sure, but I personally find it a bit tiresome. But what I’ve come to appreciate about him is that he does the single most important thing a position player can do — avoid making outs — about as well as anyone out there. And while he has no other carrying tool to speak of, he does provide value elsewhere in his game.

The sticker price of $162 million is a bit bracing, but this is not as expensive a signing as it looks. First, the early returns on the free-agent market have been outstanding for the top players. Sometimes that’s taken the form of higher-than-expected AAV, as in the case of Jameson Taillon or Josh Bell. But at the very top of the market, players and teams have reached a compromise: relatively low AAV over an extremely long time frame.

That approach, pioneered in its modern form by the Phillies and Bryce Harper in 2019, has informed the deals signed by basically every top position player apart from Judge. Trea Turner: 11 years, $300 million. Xander Bogaerts: 11 years, $280 million. And now Nimmo, at eight years, $162 million. The last few years of that contract won’t be pretty. But for now, for budgeting and tax purposes, the Mets have a 29-year-old coming off a 5.4 WAR season under contract for a hair over $20 million a year. That’s practically the same AAV as Austin Riley, Kyle Schwarber, and Joc Pederson. Viewed in those terms, Nimmo’s deal looks quite reasonable.

Another thing to remember, at the risk of belaboring the Springer comparison, is that by returning to the Mets, Nimmo won’t be under pressure to be anything other than what he already is. He’s not a hitter who can prop up a lineup all on his own, but he’s an excellent leadoff man and complementary piece. Just as Springer has benefited from the emergence of Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and Bo Bichette, Nimmo fits perfectly in a lineup where Francisco Lindor and Pete Alonso can drive him in.

What illustrates the Mets’ financial exuberance is not that they re-signed a player they’d come to rely on. It’s that they casually picked up Robertson the same night, the way you or I might stop at 7-Eleven for a Slurpee on the way home from the post office. Robertson is 37 going on 38, which means he’s no longer the elite setup man and sometime closer he was throughout the 2010s. During that time, he was the single exception to the rule of relief pitcher volatility, but since 2019, he’s suffered a severe injury to the flexor mass in his throwing elbow, undergone Tommy John surgery, and briefly found himself out of the major league picture entirely. But after pitching for Team USA in the Tokyo Olympics, he quickly found himself back in the majors with Tampa Bay, and from there to Chicago and Philadelphia, where he pitched in the most recent World Series.

Robertson threw 63 2/3 innings in the majors in 2022, and while his ERA was more than a run lower than his FIP, he still posted an ERA of 2.40. Perhaps he will regress; he lacks ideal fastball velocity for a reliever, particularly a high-leverage righty, and walked roughly one in every six batters he faced in 2022. But his knuckle-curve remains a formidable weapon. In fact, one of the few things in baseball that has the bottom drop out harder than his curve is a Mets team that’s leading the NL East in September. Baseball Savant’s patriotic lollipops paint a rosy picture: Robertson is in the 99th percentile in fastball spin and in the 90th or better in whiff rate, K%, xBA, and xSLG. Maybe the former Yankee isn’t closer-quality for a contender anymore, but who cares? So long as Edwin Díaz is still pitching, he won’t have to be.

In short, both of these are good signings. But it’s worth exploring how they fit in with the team’s larger financial structure.

It hasn’t all been one-way traffic for the Mets, who have seen Jacob deGrom and Taijuan Walker sign elsewhere this past week. But after retaining Nimmo and bringing in José Quintana, Verlander, and Robertson — to say nothing of the nine-figure extension they gave Díaz — New York’s estimated payroll for 2023 is up to $322 million. After the various accounting machinations required for luxury tax purposes, that number rises to $335.3 million.

And the tax bill will be steep. Not only are the Mets a repeat CBT payor, but they’ll also suffer additional surcharges over the $293 million “Cohen Tax” threshold, so named because it seemed to target Mets owner Steve Cohen. Instead, he saw a financial target with his name on it and went for it — blew past it, in fact, by assembling the most expensive team in baseball history. Cohen, it seems, cares not for the laws of God or Manfred.

There will be more moves to come. The Mets are known to be interested in offloading Darin Ruf and James McCann in order to save some money, but like every team they could use some help in the bullpen. And unless top prospects Francisco Álvarez, Brett Baty, and Ronny Mauricio all turn into big league contributors quickly, the Mets could probably use a bench bat or two.

But Cohen has staked his reputation as an owner on funding the best baseball team money can reasonably buy. He could not have maintained his credibility in that respect without a week like we just saw, particularly after losing deGrom. So why not run a $320 million payroll, if you’re a team that prints money and serves as a goodwill-generating machine for a man worth more than $10 billion? I can’t think of a reason. A World Series doesn’t count less for a team that paid more to win it.

Cohen can’t just up and buy a World Series, obviously; the best he can do is buy a berth in a brutal three-way rock fight with the National League’s two most recent champions (the Braves and Phillies) for the right to face an equally well-equipped Dodgers or Padres team in the playoffs. But he’s bought a damn good baseball team, which is all one can ask an owner to do.





Michael is a writer at FanGraphs. Previously, he was a staff writer at The Ringer and D1Baseball, and his work has appeared at Grantland, Baseball Prospectus, The Atlantic, ESPN.com, and various ill-remembered Phillies blogs. Follow him on Twitter, if you must, @MichaelBaumann.

108 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Shirtless Bartolo Colon
3 years ago

Might sign me next???!!!! I think 4 years at $19 million a year should get it done!

Left of Centerfield
3 years ago

Will that be enough for you to finally buy a shirt???!!!

Jason BMember since 2017
3 years ago

To be fair that is a LOT of fabric needed

MorboTheAnnihilator
3 years ago

Don’t you dare body shame Big Sexy

MikeD
3 years ago

I’ve been waiting by the phone for Steve’s call, but it’s been silent. Disappointed. Sure, I am over 50 and my running speed is now non-existent, but I’m not looking for $162MM; four or five million will do. I say I’m a bargain!

Last edited 3 years ago by MikeD
MichaelProcton
3 years ago

Let’s be fair and call it 8/30.

Nicklaus GautMember since 2018
3 years ago

Excellent, as always.

LightenUpFGMember since 2018
3 years ago

Offloading guys to save some money (but maybe not all the money)? Darin Ruf and James McCann are going to be Red Sox in very short order… yaaaaay. :/

David Klein
3 years ago
Reply to  LightenUpFG

Carrasco might be moved if they sign Senga.

fjtorres
3 years ago
Reply to  David Klein

Well, they signed Senga.
Now to see if Carrasco moves…

baubo
3 years ago

The biggest lesson Cohen has probably taught us is just how absolutely, ridiculously expensive it is to build a contender from FAs. The Mets have currently retained Nimmo and Diaz. Signed pitchers Verlander, Robertson, Quintana, while losing deGrom, Walker, and Ottovino. That’s pretty much a wash, and they are already way, way over even the highest luxury tax threshold. They still need more work, perhaps retaining Lugo, add Rodon or another bat, etc. And all that just to stay on par with last year’s team which face higher regression risk compared to younger contenders.

I know Cohen has unlimited money, so I’m surprised he simply couldn’t get anyone better than Billy Eppler to be spending his money. The Mets really need someone from the high end of Dodgers/Rays/Astros/Braves/Cards front office to be laying groundwork from the bottom end to be supplementing all these FA signings IMO. Because there are other places he can spend stupid money on that may be much more impactful to Mets winning.

Last edited 3 years ago by baubo
David Klein
3 years ago
Reply to  baubo

Mets farm has improved and has a good homegrown core position player wise with Baty and Alvarez set to join it and Eppler hit on the free agents last year. The Mets draft this past year was heavily praised I’m fine with Eppler. Oh and the Mets got turned down by a ton of front office execs and you know after Porter and Scott.

baubo
3 years ago
Reply to  David Klein

I don’t follow the farm much so I’m mostly just looking at players who actually comes up and contribute in the majors (since in the end that is the real determination for success of prospects). I mention the teams above because those teams consistently churn out players on the MLB level regardless of how their prospects are viewed from the outside. You get random prospects just come up and be capable relievers or 1~2 WAR type batters and some develop into more. Whereas the Mets I don’t really see it. I’ll see how it goes next year.

As for front office execs that turned Cohen down, that’s what I mean though. Clearly Cohen didn’t blow them away with offers like he’s doing with these FAs. If he just triples or quadruples someone’s pay I doubt people would be turning him down. And top executives make a lot less than top players.

hebrewMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  baubo

you’re seriously underrating the farm system. signing FAs like this is a purposeful strategy – you get better now without getting worse later.

David Klein
3 years ago
Reply to  baubo

I have no doubt he offered guys big money but Chernoff and Beane’s families didn’t wanna relocate.

TulkasMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  baubo

I don’t really think that’s fair. The Mets have churned out a ton of talent recently. Alonso is home grown and holds the rookie record for homers, plus a ROY award. Jeff McNeil was just an all star and is quietly a top-30 hitter over the last few seasons. Nimmo was heads and tails above every outfielder but one. We just let Conforto go last year after a few all-star level seasons. Andres Gimenez just broke out as an all-star with Cleveland, but only because we traded him after a surprising rookie season. Tomas Nido just almost won a gold glove.

Seth Lugo is a top target for lots of teams. deGrom is the best pitcher on the planet. Wheeler has been a Met for a few seasons, but his big contract came after success with the Mets. Syndergaard is similar. Dominic Smith has been a bit of a disappointment, but he’s only a few seasons removed from MVP votes albeit in a shortened season. JD Davis had a great second half after the Mets picked him up off the scrap heap. And there’s a handful of pitching prospects scattered around the league that came from our system and are now in bullpens or rotations. And don’t forget about David Peterson and Tylor Megill, both of whom have played an important role in the rotation and probably will continue to do so going forward.

The only reason the Mets are where they are is because they keep producing talent from their player dev organization…when they don’t trade it away. The Mets have been in the upper section of teams in producing quality top notch talent. If anything, the real issue is the Mets aren’t getting many role players and gap fillers from their farm, which means they need to turn to expensive free agents on the back half of their careers instead of ascending players auditioning for starts.

TulkasMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  baubo

I think they’re doing that. The Mets have silently been very good drafters for quite a while now, and the pipeline of hitters in particularly has been recently strong. And there are some really good prospects on the way–Alvarez was briefly the #1 guy on this site, Baty reminds me a lot of Alec Bohm, and there’s some other interesting talent that can still emerge.

The real issue is that the end of the Wilpon era saw a lot of trading prospects for short term players. Our pitching pipeline has been decimated because all our good prospects have been shipped to other teams. And while none of them have really emerged as aces, we’ve got to start holding on to more of those guys.

But this is just the same thing the Dodgers did after McCourt was gone. They were lavish in free agency as a bridge to rebuilding the best dev team in baseball, and now they only seem to sign the guys they want to while still having the best dev team in baseball. Cohen won’t keep this up forever, but while we reload our system, this is a fine way to keep our window open.

treebeardedMember since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  Tulkas

Yes – and just like the Dodgers of those days, we have Ben Zauzmer in the front office. The wizard behind the scenes.

SyndergaardengnomesMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  baubo

The rumors are strong that David Stearns will eventually be the POBO…

And all the evidence is that the Mets have been laying the groundwork from the bottom end, both in upgrading analytics, enhancing the scouting presence, paying minor leaguers, etc. All the stuff the Wilpons were too cheap to do.

That kind of stuff doesn’t get repaired overnight, so in the meantime, you’re seeing a lot of high AAV contracts for shorter term (Verlander, Scherzer), and very few longer term commitments…

It’s the exact playbook that the Dodgers followed after Frank McCourt.

treebeardedMember since 2019
3 years ago

Yes, except for inexplicably trading Pete Crow-Armstrong for Trevor Williams and Javy Baez. I know PCA made a big leap as a prospect AFTER the trade, but still, a mop up guy and Baez, who any analytically-minded person would not be a fan of was a desperate move from a win-now team who couldn’t get the real guys they wanted. That one is going to sting.

SenorGato
3 years ago
Reply to  baubo

This is basically a one time stretch so Steve-y can win over the public, inch closer to the city’s real estate, and (for the baseball part of the org) buy some time for some high quality prospects in the org

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  baubo

I understand why people are objecting to this statement, because this is not the Mets plan 5 years from now. But I also think baubo’s point is broadly correct. The Mets do not want to be doing this indefinitely, and partly for the reasons described here. It is ridiculously expensive to build a contender through FA. You do not get good value for your money compared to alternative routes.

Scott GilroyMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  baubo

The good thing is that after 2024, the team doesn’t have a lot of contracts on the books, though Pete’s contract will need to be addressed. Gives them a few years to develop the minor league system and hopefully have some cheap players to help balance the payroll

MikeD
3 years ago
Reply to  baubo

Baubo, I get your point and agree with the part about showing how difficult it is to build a championship team simply with free agents, but I also believe we need to give Eppler time on the second part. That takes years to get the system in place. I believe Cohen is trying to use brute force (his money) for the first few years of his ownership and give the team time to revamp its farm and add in additional talent. They had a big draft this year, but it will take some time for those results to begin bubbling up. He’s sort of following the Dodgers model. Spend big up front, and then spend the next several years building the farm. Eppler might be fine at this. We simply don’t know yet.

David Klein
3 years ago

Love Nimmo yeah eight years is too much but they probably gave him the extra year or two to keep the aav down a bit. He’s an elite obp guy and lead off hitter and has become a very good defensive CFer both to the eye test and according to statcast. There was really no good real good CFer on the free agent market outside of Nimmo and not for few years in free agency. Nimmo was once called a just a fourth OFer by his own manager in Terry Collins and Michael Conforto lapped him in the minors and beat him to the majors while looking like a cornerstone player and Nimmo almost got traded for Bruce. If I told you Nimmo got this contract over Conforto a few years ago you’d be shocked. If the Mets get 5-6 strong years from Nimmo you are very happy with the contract I think his skills will age well but the question is will his body hold up. The Mets all through the process thought he was a goner and according to Joel Sherman checked in on the price to get Alek Thomas and Arizona asked for Baty and the Mets checked out. I’m very happy Nimmo’s staying.

Last edited 3 years ago by David Klein
jrubyMember since 2016
3 years ago

“In fact, one of the few things in baseball that has the bottom drop out harder than his curve is a Mets team that’s leading the NL East in September.”

Ohhh dayyyyyyyyyumn

treebeardedMember since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  jruby

The truth – it hurts. That was a great zinger.

Dmjn53
3 years ago

Brandon Nimmo’s coming off a 5 win season, and has averaged 4.6 bWAR per 162 for his career. Where’s the sticker shock? Because $20m AAV for this level of player seems like a bargain even on an 8 year deal

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  Dmjn53

The injuries. That’s where the sticker shock comes in.

Dmjn53
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Outside of the neck issue, none of the injuries appear to be nagging, and he’s proven he can be a 3 win player in 90 games (2021) or a 2 win player in 55 games (2020). That kind of production is outrageous and significantly raises his floor

rossredcayMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Yeah, some folks on the tweeter machine seem to be surprised a player of his skillset got this kind of contract, but from that perspective I have no problem with it. The health seems like the big thing. If he stays relatively healthy, this will be fine. If he doesn’t, this contract will probably hurt some.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  rossredcay

People say that Moneyball isn’t subversive anymore, but the fact that people still don’t recognize the value of OBP makes me think it still is. Since Nimmo hit the league in 2016, he is 8th in OBP+, sandwiched in between Bryce Harper and Paul Goldschmidt. He’s ahead of Alex Bregman, Mookie Betts, Kris Bryant, JD Martinez, Xander Bogaerts…he’s really good when he plays.

The only reason to ding this is if you think he can’t stay healthy, which is a legitimate question.

rossredcayMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Yep. Career average of 4.5 fWAR per 600 PA so far. If he’s on the field, he’s dope. But like you said, being on the field is definitely not a given for him.

Shalesh
3 years ago
Reply to  Dmjn53

Ben Clemens projected Nimmo at 5/$110M, that’s the sticker shock. Now, everyone’s doing ex post rationalization: “it’s fine to pay these guys for 8 years when they’ll likely produce 4 wins for only 2 of the 8. Inflation Dombrowski, and mega-billionaires have changed MLB economics and his AAV is now 20M rather than $22M — what a deal!”

tung_twista
3 years ago
Reply to  Shalesh

Shin-Soo Choo received 7 years, $130M deal when the average team payroll was $106M which prorates to $172M with the average team payroll at $140M.
Nimmo has slightly worse bat, slightly better defense, slightly worse baserunning and health, but is one year younger at the time of free agency so overall, their value shouldn’t be too different.
But of course, back then, Fangraphs crowd projected Choo at 5 years, $81M so here we are again.

Dmjn53
3 years ago
Reply to  tung_twista

I would argue the gap in defense is substantial. Choo was a poor defensive corner OF, Nimmo is somewhere between an average or well above average CF. I would also argue Choi’s skillset would have gotten paid a lot more today

Kevbot034
3 years ago
Reply to  Dmjn53

He is injury prone, mediocre in the field, and 30.

David Klein
3 years ago
Reply to  Kevbot034

He was worth +4 and +6 in Cf the last two years he’s not a mediocre fielder.

soddingjunkmailMember since 2016
3 years ago

He got the Jose Ramirez contract, with one more year tacked on the back end.

But he is 5 months younger, so that makes sense though. /sarcasm

SyndergaardengnomesMember since 2020
3 years ago

I feel like this doesn’t require an explanation, but the baseball owners are obviously in a different spending place than they were a year ago.Also, not everyone is willing to take a severe discount to stay with their team. Ramirez’ deal was under market value the second he signed it, and clearly he was ok with that.

Last edited 3 years ago by Syndergaardengnomes
carterMember since 2020
3 years ago

Jram said he is only going to stay in Cleveland. If a guy says he will only play for one team he basically has to take what he can get from that team

fjtorres
3 years ago
Reply to  carter

Which, depending on lifestyle, might last him a while.

soddingjunkmailMember since 2016
3 years ago

100% agree.

I was joking. Giving the downvotes, obviously my intent didn’t come through. Cheers.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago

I have written this before here, but I continue to think that analyzing the Mets’ moves and judging whether they are “good” or “bad” is impossible. The current iteration of the Mets don’t make good or bad moves; they just are. If money is no object, then it doesn’t really matter from a cost-benefit framework.

John WickMember since 2018
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

The Mets more flexible cost benefit thinking makes them *way more* interesting to analyze. They could have had their pick of free agents. They chose these guys rather than Judge or deGrom or Rodon or paying one of the SS options enough to play third or second.

Normally opportunity cost creates interesting analysis because a team will say have 3 holes and can only fill 1 optimally and another halfway, and opportunities are analyzed with those constraints. The Mets are the opposite: they have massive freedom of choice, and their choices are way more interesting to me because of it.

Last edited 3 years ago by John Wick
sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  John Wick

The big thing that runs through all the signings in the last two offseasons is: No QO. Nimmo and Díaz got brought back after they got QO’d but almost no one else did, and I don’t believe they have signed someone who could cost them draft picks. They seem to always go for the best player without the QO if they haven’t filled it already.

fjtorres
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

The only question about the Mets is how soon they hit $400M.

Pachoo9Member since 2021
3 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

If you include the luxury tax, probably this season.

fjtorres
3 years ago
Reply to  Pachoo9

I was betting on next off-season when they sign Otani and Machado. 😎

Last edited 3 years ago by fjtorres
sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago

That said, I do actually think there’s some precedent for a good-hitting, fringe defender in CF with injury issues getting this type of deal. It’s roughly the same story as George Springer last year. And the Mets really needed a center fielder. So I think this works and makes total sense. I don’t think this is anything like the Padres signing a shortstop so that other shortstops can play first base and/or left field.

carterMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Padres deal sort of felt like “well everybody else turned us down let’s get somebody” fit be damned

Glevin
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Springer is now 2 years ago! He was better than Nimmo at that point but there are similarities. I like Nimmo a lot because excellent OBP is such a valuable and rare commodity but I worry that he will age out of CF pretty quickly. (D in CF seems to decline pretty quickly around 30) . It’s a completely fine deal for the Mets though. They have the money, it fits what they need, and is fair enough.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  Glevin

It was 2 years ago? Time has no meaning for me anymore.

BiscuitMember since 2016
3 years ago

“Cohen, it seems, cares not for the laws of God or Manfred.” – man this is a great line.

treebeardedMember since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  Biscuit

Don’t you mean, “Man, Fred, this is a great line”?

SenorGato
3 years ago

Great example here of how underValued Willson Contreras was in FA. Nimmo’s got the similar flaws and strengths: not an ideal defensive CF, lots
of groundballs on offense, but otherwise at least a solid hitter. The gap in perception is astounding BUT tbf Steve-y’s trying to entertain the masses into giving him all the Queens real estate and the Mets are a playoff team

This is excellent for the lineup and clubhouse, would love to see them add a strong defender to the OF

Last edited 3 years ago by SenorGato
senor_mike
3 years ago
Reply to  SenorGato

Not for nothing, but OAA has considered Nimmo to be a + defender every season but 2020.

In 2021 he was a +4 OAA with a 2% success rate added.
In 2022 he was a +6 OAA with a 2% success rate added.

He’s 30 next year so I don’t know how long he will stay there, but the narrative that he’s faking it out in CF, which has been around since he broke in, needs to be taken out behind the shed already.

And if he is an above-average defensive CF like the data suggests, then his $20m AAV plays up a lot differently.

SenorGato
3 years ago
Reply to  senor_mike

Just going to point out that you can do take this same approach to Contreras’ defense at catcher

This isn’t even really to knock Nimmo or this deal, they’re both really good players with stuff you can pick at like anyone else. TBH couldn’t even say what my point was under than Contreras seems pretty dang underrated

tdouglas
3 years ago
Reply to  SenorGato

Contreras has never been the kind of player Nimmo is. Contreras only eclipsed 3 WAR once in his whole career. Nimmo has been worth over 3 WAR three times and reached 5 WAR last season.

fanofthemanMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  tdouglas

Contreras is also a catcher, and only 11 catchers accumulated 2+ fwar last year, while 20 center fielders did. If you set a threshold at 2.4 fwar (where the 10th best catcher checked in last year), Contreras has met or exceeded that four times, plus 1.6 in 2020 (and 2.3, just below the threshold). It’s closer than I would have thought before digging into the WAR by position.

SenorGato
3 years ago
Reply to  fanoftheman

Thanks for digging in and being succinct, I would have fumbled this so bad

SenorGato
3 years ago
Reply to  tdouglas

fanoftheman covered it well and I’d also point out that these guys started around the same time and Contreras has 20.8 rWAR to Nimmo’s 17.2 (though it’s 17.9 to 15.5 advantage Nimmo by fWAR). I’ll also also throw out that if I’m going to say things about a player on FanGraphs there’s a good chance I’ve checked out there fWAR (and the myriad other numbahs they offer us for free – what an amazing site!)

SenorGato
3 years ago
Reply to  SenorGato

Came in a little hot…What I should say is that:

Love this signing for the Mets’ clubhouse and lineupSee alot of similarities to him and Contreras as two guys who aren’t particularly good defenders at premium positions, hit alot of groundballs, but otherwise are excellent playersThe one thing tainting all Mets moves for me is Mr. Cohen’s doing all this to get to the real estate…Badass team tho, could use some defensive support as their coredation Ages
Note: Bullet points disappear once the post is in and I’m too lazy to fix it but not so much to not edit at all

Last edited 3 years ago by SenorGato
DLHughey
3 years ago

Can we tone down the “snarky internet baseball writer” schtick a little? I don’t mean to be the Brian McCann fun police, but it’s 2022, that’s been played out for a long while now and detracts from the actual content when it’s this excessive.

Jason BMember since 2017
3 years ago
Reply to  DLHughey

DL is an emphatic NO on bringing back NotGraphs

EonADSMember since 2024
3 years ago
Reply to  DLHughey

I’m sorry to say you’re on the wrong site for that.

wobatusMember since 2024
3 years ago
Reply to  DLHughey

Actually, I somewhat agree with this take; how tiresome that Nimmo is good AND tries hard. Running to first base may be something he just picked up as a kid and it’s a habit. He doesn’t seem disingenuous or Charlie Hustle rub it in your face. And David Eckstein had 16.7 more career fWAR than anyone posting here. You can only fire Joe Morgan once, And Joe Morgan isn’t walking through that door. Where is the sarchasm font you damn kids.

GTOBalance
3 years ago

With these very long ‘end of career’ contracts, could we possibly see the previous NHL style, where deals were comically long expecting players to retire before the end, to play games with the luxury tax? If you’re signing a guy until say age 38, why not make it 42 with basically built in deferrals to lower the luxury cap hit?

EonADSMember since 2024
3 years ago
Reply to  GTOBalance

Players in MLB generally don’t like deferrals that much. The Lerner Nationals ran into that in FA a few times.

fjtorres
3 years ago
Reply to  EonADS

He’s not talking literal deferals but efective ones.
And he is right.

Nimmo’s deal at 8 years nominal might really be a 6 year deal with the team cutting him and “eating” the last two, making them defered payments in all but name.

Even more likely, the Turner deal’s last 4-5 years might be deferred payments in all but name.

Too many teams are giving too many too-long contracts for it to be anything but a tax minimization ploy. The only question is who came up with the idea, owners , GMs, or agents.

Last edited 3 years ago by fjtorres
Shalesh
3 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

Tax minimization might make sense if the AAV’s came way down like they did in the NHL. The AAV’s are => predictions with more years . This is drunken sailor behavior.

fjtorres
3 years ago
Reply to  Shalesh

Look, lets say Bogarts is deemed good enough for 8 years at $35M. Instead he gets the same $280 over 11 years, with an AAV $9.5M lower, with the understanding he won’t be rosterable the last three years and will be cut to collect $25.5M for three more years.
And they pay luxury tax on $25 instead of $35.
(Instead of getting dinged for overpaying Bogarts, folks now wonder what kind of player he’ll be at 41.)

Those $76M are effectively deferred.

And when they cut him they can talk him into taking a Bonilla-like $2M a year for $40 years, to minimize *his* taxes. A win win “buyout”.

We’ve all seen similar moves.

Last edited 3 years ago by fjtorres
Fun-Hating DorkMember since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  GTOBalance

I’ve mentioned before that it’s the “void years” concept that’s explicit in the NFL CBA — you sign a “5”-year deal that literally voids the last two years the day after the 3rd season ends or some nonsense.

The thing I’ve not seen specifically discussed about CBT accounting (or I just yeeted it out of my brain) — how are team/player options accounted for in the AAV for a contract?

Mike NMN
3 years ago

I’m ready to bring my sixty-something year-old right arm for some high-leverage moments at an appropriate level of compensation. Not a Mets fan, but willing to put that aside. Don’t want to volunteer the exact “something” that comes with the “sixty” because then you’d ding my ZIPS projections. Mr. Cohen? Your move.

joe_schlabotnik
3 years ago

Q: Brandon – it is ordered by JFK junior for you to stay healthy.
Brandon: *salutes, tear comes down cheek*

tdouglas
3 years ago

I just don’t know how the cheap NL teams are ever going to compete. The Mets, Braves, Padres, and Dodgers are excellent and will be excellent for years to come. The Cardinals perpetually seem to have a floor of 85 wins and have good odds of winning the Central over the next year or two, and the Giants have more than enough money to kickstart a playoff run whenever they feel like they are ready, same with the Cubs.

How in the world are the Pirates and Reds and Rockies and Marlins going to compete?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  tdouglas

Frankly, I wonder the same thing about the Brewers. Aside from the Cards, they’re basically all going to outspend them by 2:1.

And the Brewers are one of the few teams that doesn’t have a ton of space to actually increase payroll (the Rays and Marlins being the others that come to mind, and the Marlins situation is entirely of their own making). They could definitely spend more, and they should, but not even close to enough to even be on the same chart as anyone except the Cards.

fjtorres
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Frankly, it the Cubs are really going to spend and land, say, Correa and Rodon/Senga, Milwaukee would have to seriously consider punting the season.

Right now they can get lucky and squeeze in with everybody going 80% but in the current NL the wild cards are out of reach and if the division turns into a Cubs/Cards Hunger Games the odds won’t be with the brewers.

Arizona, Chisox, and Minn aren’t there yet but they might get there by june. MLB has had a golden age of parity for a while but it may not last.

SyndergaardengnomesMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  tdouglas

The recipe for the Pirates, Reds, and Marlins is actually simple. Try.None of these teams are run by poor people, and the small market excuse just doesn’t fly. Bob Nutting owns the Pirates and is the 10th richest owner in baseball. The Miami metro area is the 9th largest in the US. They’re perfectly happy being run on the cheap, and at least in the Reds’ case, have been willing to rub their fans noses in it.My sympathy is for the fan bases of course. But to ask how the Pirates can compete? Bob Nutting is capable of stroking a 300 million dollar check for Carlos Correa today. As for Colorado, revamping the entire operation, and hiring baseball people who know what they’re doing would be a great start.

Last edited 3 years ago by Syndergaardengnomes
PC1970Member since 2024
3 years ago

Exactly. One thing San Diego has taught me is that smallish markets CAN compete if the owner is willing to spend $$.

& while I understand it is easy to guarantee profits by spending little in player salaries, I’d think the value of the team goes up much more if you win.

St. Louis is the model the smallish size market & there is no reason that couldn’t have been Pittsburgh or Cincinnati..IT’s just that STL was very well run & has now created a loyal fan base.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  PC1970

I do not buy that the Padres are a sustainable model for this. They could be the only team in MLB that is going to lose money, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it was substantial. I typically think that teams can and should spend more but expecting team owners to take a loss for fan service is probably not something we should expect (as cool as it is when it does happen).

fjtorres
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

San Diego gets $50M a year from cable and another $60M from national TV. 3M attendance in 2022, 5th in MLB.
Machado has an opt-out after ’23 and Soto hits FA after ’24.

Also:

San Diego averages $44,500 in income which is $2000 above california average and is the eight largest city in the country, 1.4M, 50% more than San Francisco and 3.5X Cleveland. Slightly larger than Dallas.

That is not a small market team.

Make of it what you will but note that Houston’s post-season and WS run brought them an extra $26M.

SD is going for all the marbles but they can shed a lot of money as time goes on. So it may not be sustainable but it doesn’t have to be.

Baltimore, MurraylandMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

Municipal boundaries do not a market make. Many factors go into sustaining high revenues, but population-wise the San Diego area is easily in the bottom half of baseball markets, maybe bottom third.

fjtorres
3 years ago
Reply to  tdouglas

By being ruthless.
Get the best players they can, keep them on the farm until they are fully ready, get their best cheap years, trade them and let the rich clubs pay for the rest of their career.

Oakland and Tampa have been doing it the longest and Cleveland joined them when they lost Sherman and his pocketbook and they went from $140M to $50M. Milwaukee has to be pondering it, which is why Adames may or not be in play

The new CBA threw a bone at young players with the MLB-funded bonuses but it helps big budget teams as much as the small budget teams. No help there.

Last edited 3 years ago by fjtorres
Ryan DCMember since 2016
3 years ago

I know by raw numbers this Mets team will have the highest payroll in MLB history, but is that still true after accounting for inflation? I have a feeling those early-00s Yankees teams (and maybe others) actually ran higher inflation-adjusted payrolls, though I’m too lazy to do the math.

cnordhielm
3 years ago

These owners didn’t get rich by being stupid. All these long-term contracts are going to play very well when inflation runs rampant. I remember George Brett signing one of the first (if not the first) really long-term deal and the Royals spun it as a ‘franchise investment.’ Three years later he was grossly underpaid but not in a position to complain.

goatMember since 2026
3 years ago

MAGA METS

cnordhielm
3 years ago

Test. I think I’m the first person to be shadow banned from Fangraphs. 🙂

cnordhielm
3 years ago
Reply to  cnordhielm

Retract false accusation: I must have messed up the submit.

cnordhielm
3 years ago

These owners didn’t get rich by being stupid. They are working these long-term deals as hedges against inflation. I remember George Brett signing what might have been the first really long-term deal. When it happened, they thought it was insane, but three years later he was grossly underpaid.

miltonfriedman
3 years ago

Good thing he is playing now. If he were playing in 2001, Jacque Jones would have gotten more money on the open market

tdouglas
3 years ago
Reply to  miltonfriedman

lol Jones only reached 2 or more WAR in one season. Nimmo is so much better, it’s silly. You’re right that he might have gotten overpaid after his one great season, though.

Scott GilroyMember since 2016
3 years ago

In fact, one of the few things in baseball that has the bottom drop out harder than his curve is a Mets team that’s leading the NL East in September.
Ouch!

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
3 years ago

If the Padres had signed Nimmo instead of Bogaerts they’d be filling a position of need — OK somebody would have to move to LF — and saving $100m.

fjtorres
3 years ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

But they’d have less flexibility in the near future. Like, if Machado leaves.

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

It’s the same problem. They’ll have to move Tatis back from OF and leave a hole where he was. Plus they’d have $100m

fjtorres
3 years ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

They’ll have options for either 3B or LF: rookie, trade, cheap FA.
Flexibility is about having options.

SenorGato
3 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

*when Machado leaves

fjtorres
3 years ago
Reply to  SenorGato

Probably.
But stuff happens.
He might get injured and stay.
Or pull a Ramirez.
Hence, “if”.
The point of Free Agency and opt-outs is the player chooses.

Fun-Hating DorkMember since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  SenorGato

If Arenando didn’t opt out this year, it’s certainly plausible Machado stays.

channelclemente
3 years ago

The Mets owner’s wealth is relevant only insofar as the credit line it generates. He doesn’t spend his money, but the money his wealth leverages from the credit market. In these sort of situations that issue is more than an incidental nuance.

slicedfriedgoldMember since 2019
3 years ago

“To put that number in context: for $162 million, Nimmo could buy this 15-foot-by-25-foot inflatable water slide for every single one of the 578,000-plus residents of his native Wyoming. (Wayfair says two-day shipping is free for a purchase of this size. We shall see.) He’d then have enough left over to pay the $10 million the Mets agreed to pay relief pitcher David Robertson in their second major signing of the evening. And even after that he’d have some $1.2 million left over. Maybe he could spend that on a new garden hose or swim trunks so as to get the most out of the water slide.”

I love Fangraphs.

MikeD
3 years ago

“But at the very top of the market, players and teams have reached a compromise: relatively low AAV over an extremely long time frame.”
———

Yes, however I feel as if the Mets paid near full market rate ($20.5MM AAV) for Nimmo on a five year deal, yet they then extended it to eight years. Many questioned if he could get a $20MM AAV coming into the off season. I was in the camp he’d get a 5/100, maybe even a 6/120. He got the $20MM AAV (and a tick higher), but over eight years. That was the shocker to me. If you told me he was going to get an eight year deal to lower the AAV, I’d have thought the AAV then would be in the $17/18MM range, similar to what the Yankees did with DJ LeMahieu, turning a 4/84 and a $21MM AAV into a 6/90 and $15MM AAV. So it feels like the Mets paid top price both in AVV and length of contract.

The Yankees went up to a 9/360 on Judge because the Giants had offered that, and indications were they’d go higher if Judge informed them they were his preferred destination. The Padres were prepared to offer even more money, although at a greater term. I get why Judge got his deal. The question here was any team vaguely in the 8/162 range for Nimmo? It almost feels like Cohen decided he didn’t want to take any risk, so he blew the market away at a price I don’t believe he had to go to. Will it matter? Perhaps not in his world!

He’s blown through the third tier as easily as Willy Wonka blew through the roof of his chocolate factory at the end of the movie. If he’s going to ignore the third tier (the Cohen tier), then why bother trying to extend the contract an extra several years for a lower AAV, unless the Mets are somehow planning to unload a few contracts? I don’t see how.

Last edited 3 years ago by MikeD
RobM
3 years ago
Reply to  MikeD

A Willy Wonka reference is always welcome, especially during the holiday season!

fjtorres
3 years ago
Reply to  MikeD

We’re at a point where guatanteed money says more than contract length or AAV.

gblasius
3 years ago

So the Mets get dissed when they don’t spend, and dissed when they do. The Dodgers and Yankees seem to get a free pass.

Where’s the neutrality?

Arguably the increased in spend is a produce of years of underinvestment by the penny pinching Wilpons who decimated whatever farm system the Mets had on questionable trades; they ran the team like Trump ran his casinos.

Now we have an owner who is committed to winning. To do that, he needed to clear out the old. That requires some time and money.

fjtorres
3 years ago
Reply to  gblasius

Different folks see things differently.

ESPN pointed out that in spending $461M, the Mets are just replacing losses:

“And in one sense, all the Mets really did was replace last year’s talent:

Nimmo for Nimmo

Diaz for Diaz

Verlander for deGrom

Senga for Chris Bassitt

Quintana for Walker

Robertson for Adam Ottavino

Raley for Seth Lugo”

Of course, some of us remember they won 101 games in ’22, so just replacing lost talent to stay at that level isn’t exactly a bad thing.

Luy
3 years ago
Reply to  gblasius

Both not spending. And spending a lot can be done in ways that are bad decisions.
I’m not going to get into details. But your overall premise is a false choice between “all signings good” or ” no signings bad”.

Also using “we” to describe a team you’re a fan while accusing *other people* of not being neutral is peak internet commenting! Well done.