Which Young Players Should Be Next To Sign Long-Term Deals?

Yordan Alvarez
David Butler II-USA TODAY Sports

The main reason why the Astros have been able to survive and thrive despite the departure of a large percentage of the core of their 2017 World Series-winning team is their success in developing their young talent. One of the most prominent of these players, Kyle Tucker, had his breakout season in the shortened 2020 and cemented those gains with a .294/.359/.557, 4.9 WAR 2021 campaign that saw him get his first MVP votes. With Tucker heading to arbitration this winter for the first time, the Astros discussed a long-term contract with their incumbent right fielder in recent weeks, but the deal has apparently fallen through.

While it hasn’t worked out, it’s the right idea. Teams want to lock up their best young players, and many players, especially before they get that first big arbitration bump, are interested in mitigating their personal risk. Wander Franco was more likely than not to beat the $182 million he’ll receive from the Rays and the team they trade him to around 2029, but it also provided him some real security, given he’s still a couple years from arbitration. These types of deals can be win-win.

So who should be the next players to get inked for the long haul? Here are my favorite picks. For each, I’ve included their ZiPS projections for both performance and a fair contract; after all, I don’t own a team, so I don’t have the motivation to pitch any absurdly team-friendly agreements like the one Ozzie Albies signed with the Braves. I’ve also omitted Juan Soto since we’ve already talked about him and a long-term deal quite a bit, most recently in Jay Jaffe’s piece before the season that already has the ZiPS projections. If you want a figure, let’s just say 10 years and all circulating US currency.

Yordan Alvarez, Houston Astros: Seven years, $128 million

You’ve already struck out with one of your outfielders; why not go after another one? Alvarez isn’t quite as well-rounded as Tucker is, but I think he’s even more interesting in terms of pure offensive talent. If 2021 erased any worrying lingering injury issues, then 2022 should be doing that for any concern that he’d have trouble with a dejuiced ball. Despite the juice being gone, he’s still crushing the pulp that remains, and even our least optimistic projection for him now has him finishing with more home runs than 2021.

The bump in power is the most obvious — his average exit velocity has improved to a stunning 95 mph — but that’s not the only way that Alvarez has improved offensively. His plate discipline has taken a big step up as well, and his walks and strikeouts have almost reached parity this year. That’s the product of him swinging at fewer bad pitches while swinging at more good ones; it’s not easy to move those numbers significantly in opposite directions. And while he doesn’t have much defensive value, he’s nowhere near Todd Hundley awful in the outfield when you want to rest another player at DH. I also suspect that the value of first basemen and designated hitters should have a bit of a bump with the universal DH, now that there are 15 more prime spots for offense-first players with minimal defensive ability.

ZiPS Projection – Yordan Alvarez
Year BA OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB OPS+ DR WAR
2023 .279 .361 .539 542 92 151 34 1 35 109 67 142 1 146 -1 4.4
2024 .274 .360 .535 529 90 145 34 1 34 107 68 143 1 144 -1 4.1
2025 .270 .358 .529 518 88 140 33 1 33 102 67 142 1 142 -2 3.8
2026 .271 .359 .523 505 85 137 32 1 31 98 66 134 1 141 -2 3.7
2027 .267 .354 .512 490 80 131 31 1 29 94 62 126 1 137 -2 3.2
2028 .265 .351 .494 472 75 125 28 1 26 86 59 119 1 131 -3 2.7
2029 .261 .344 .482 452 69 118 26 1 24 79 55 110 1 126 -3 2.2

Vladimir Guerrero Jr., Toronto Blue Jays: Eight years, $174 million

Vladito is making nearly $8 million this year and not in a family hurting for financial resources, so he has a reasonable risk profile to try to wait out free agency and grab a monster deal then. But that doesn’t mean the Blue Jays shouldn’t at least try; it will be a shame if his stay in Toronto is already half over.

While Guerrero’s offensive numbers have come back down since last year’s Triple Crown run, the disappearance of run scoring around the league makes the drop look far more significant than it actually is. In rest-of-career value, ZiPS has him fourth in baseball among hitters, and none of the top three are gettable.

ZiPS Projection – Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
Year BA OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB OPS+ DR WAR
2023 .298 .385 .533 580 105 173 30 2 34 100 76 102 3 152 0 4.4
2024 .295 .386 .532 562 103 166 30 2 33 97 78 102 3 152 0 4.1
2025 .292 .385 .530 559 102 163 30 2 33 96 80 104 3 151 -1 4.0
2026 .290 .387 .532 551 102 160 30 2 33 95 82 104 3 152 -1 4.0
2027 .287 .386 .522 536 99 154 29 2 31 91 81 103 3 150 -1 3.7
2028 .285 .384 .513 522 95 149 28 2 29 86 79 96 3 147 -1 3.4
2029 .282 .380 .502 504 90 142 26 2 27 81 75 91 3 143 -2 3.0
2030 .278 .376 .490 486 83 135 24 2 25 76 71 86 3 139 -2 2.6

Dylan Cease, Chicago White Sox: Five years, $75 million

There are three starting pitchers the White Sox should be thinking about long-term: Cease, Lucas Giolito, and Michael Kopech. Giolito will be a free agent after next season, so he may not have much incentive to skip testing the market. Kopech’s injury history and boom-or-bust type abilities make evaluating him very tricky. Cease is the one the Sox should be giving the full-court press in contract talks. His FIP this year is a sterling 2.16, and he’s found those extra strikeouts that ZiPS thought he might have in him. Did I mention that he’s lopped four mph off last year’s opposition exit velocity? If his changeup ever truly clicks consistently, he could be frightening.

ZiPS Projection – Dylan Cease
Year W L S ERA G GS IP H ER HR BB SO ERA+ WAR
2023 12 8 0 3.61 32 32 164.3 130 66 20 74 227 122 3.4
2024 11 7 0 3.54 31 31 160.0 122 63 19 70 218 124 3.4
2025 11 7 0 3.57 30 30 156.3 119 62 18 67 212 123 3.3
2026 10 7 0 3.55 28 28 144.3 110 57 17 62 196 124 3.1
2027 10 6 0 3.57 26 26 136.0 103 54 16 59 186 123 2.9

Julio Rodríguez, Seattle Mariners: Six years, $103 million

Remember when some people were actually worried about him? Seattle’s patience with Jarred Kelenic hasn’t yet paid off, but the team’s aggression in putting Rodríguez on the roster appears to be a bonanza. The first week or so was rough, but since that first multi-hit game, he’s been one of the hottest players in baseball, hitting .330/.385/.466 over 24 games. Not bad for a guy who has played all of six weeks of Double-A ball.

You Aren't a FanGraphs Member
It looks like you aren't yet a FanGraphs Member (or aren't logged in). We aren't mad, just disappointed.
We get it. You want to read this article. But before we let you get back to it, we'd like to point out a few of the good reasons why you should become a Member.
1. Ad Free viewing! We won't bug you with this ad, or any other.
2. Unlimited articles! Non-Members only get to read 10 free articles a month. Members never get cut off.
3. Dark mode and Classic mode!
4. Custom player page dashboards! Choose the player cards you want, in the order you want them.
5. One-click data exports! Export our projections and leaderboards for your personal projects.
6. Remove the photos on the home page! (Honestly, this doesn't sound so great to us, but some people wanted it, and we like to give our Members what they want.)
7. Even more Steamer projections! We have handedness, percentile, and context neutral projections available for Members only.
8. Get FanGraphs Walk-Off, a customized year end review! Find out exactly how you used FanGraphs this year, and how that compares to other Members. Don't be a victim of FOMO.
9. A weekly mailbag column, exclusively for Members.
10. Help support FanGraphs and our entire staff! Our Members provide us with critical resources to improve the site and deliver new features!
We hope you'll consider a Membership today, for yourself or as a gift! And we realize this has been an awfully long sales pitch, so we've also removed all the other ads in this article. We didn't want to overdo it.

I would have felt this way even before the season. Rodríguez is one of a handful of 22-and-unders to receive a three-WAR projection in ZiPS, a list that consists entirely of stars and Gregory Polanco. I’m pretty confident in J-Rod, and if Seattle can’t ink him to a deal, he’s likely to get more expensive very quickly.

ZiPS Projection – Julio Rodríguez
Year BA OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB OPS+ DR WAR
2023 .277 .347 .432 502 66 139 27 3 15 63 48 138 25 121 12 3.8
2024 .282 .355 .455 490 68 138 28 3 17 66 50 133 26 130 12 4.3
2025 .276 .356 .455 492 70 136 28 3 18 68 55 140 28 130 12 4.4
2026 .274 .357 .454 489 70 134 28 3 18 67 57 142 26 130 11 4.3
2027 .271 .357 .452 487 70 132 28 3 18 67 59 144 25 129 11 4.2
2028 .269 .357 .448 480 69 129 26 3 18 66 60 145 25 128 11 4.1

Tyler Stephenson, Cincinnati Reds: Six years, $49 million

Let’s be excessively charitable to the Reds for a minute and take them at their word that it’s not about money and that they just want to rebuild from within (hold the laughter for a sec). If they want people to believe that, they ought to put their cash where their mouths are and sign one or both of their best, very young players (Stephenson and Jonathan India). Cincinnati has intentionally lost a lot of valuable players over the last six months or so, and with Joey Votto in the twilight of his career, this team ought to be interested in not being looked at as “the Pittsburgh Pirates, but with awful chili.” Stephenson has crushed the ball this year, his defense is just fine behind the plate, and he’s been one of the team’s few bright spots in a year in which an eight-inning no-hit game that was a loss isn’t even the lowlight.

ZiPS Projection – Tyler Stephenson
Year BA OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB OPS+ DR WAR
2023 .285 .364 .457 372 59 106 22 0 14 56 42 86 1 114 3 2.6
2024 .282 .363 .462 355 57 100 22 0 14 55 42 85 1 115 3 2.6
2025 .281 .363 .464 349 56 98 22 0 14 54 42 86 1 115 2 2.4
2026 .279 .361 .457 341 54 95 22 0 13 52 41 81 1 113 1 2.2
2027 .282 .363 .464 330 52 93 21 0 13 51 39 75 2 115 0 2.2
2028 .279 .361 .451 319 49 89 19 0 12 48 37 69 2 111 0 1.9

Andrés Giménez, Cleveland Guardians: Six years, $55 million

Only two players in baseball with at least 90 plate appearances have had a bigger bump in exit velocity than Giménez: Jean Segura and Gleyber Torres. Giménez hasn’t turned into a 40-homer hitter or anything, but he’s hitting everything with more authority than in the past, and at age 23, that kind of improvement would not be shocking if it were maintained. He’s become a line drive machine, which plays well in an environment where fly balls are suddenly dying, and he acquits himself well at prime defensive positions. Cleveland has a long history of signing pre-arbitration players to long deals, and Giménez should join other recent signings: Emmanuel Clase and Myles Straw.

ZiPS Projection – Andrés Giménez
Year BA OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB OPS+ DR WAR
2023 .262 .310 .426 458 58 120 25 4 14 53 23 117 18 102 7 2.7
2024 .264 .316 .439 444 58 117 25 4 15 55 25 118 17 107 7 3.0
2025 .257 .311 .432 447 58 115 25 4 15 55 26 125 15 103 8 2.8
2026 .254 .310 .436 445 58 113 25 4 16 55 27 129 15 104 8 2.8
2027 .251 .308 .434 435 57 109 24 4 16 54 27 127 14 103 7 2.6
2028 .253 .309 .433 423 55 107 23 4 15 52 26 118 13 103 6 2.4

Shane McClanahan, Tampa Bay Rays: Seven years, $70 million

I wrote about McClanahan and his improved changeup last week, and his seven-inning shutout of the woeful Tigers unsurprisingly isn’t changing my view of him as a pitcher. The Rays like signing their players early and often, even if they don’t finish their deals in Tampa, and I’d like to see Sugar Shane be the next recipient. The team is also increasingly confident about keeping him in the game; he’s on pace to face the most third-time-through-the-order batters for an under-30 Ray since Blake Snell in 2018. I think ZiPS might even be underrating him a bit.

ZiPS Projection – Shane McClanahan
Year W L S ERA G GS IP H ER HR BB SO WAR
2023 11 7 0 3.37 29 29 144.0 125 54 19 52 189 3.4
2024 11 7 0 3.37 29 29 144.3 122 54 18 51 188 3.4
2025 11 6 0 3.39 27 27 138.0 117 52 18 49 178 3.2
2026 10 6 0 3.40 25 25 127.0 108 48 16 45 164 3.0
2027 10 5 0 3.35 24 24 121.0 101 45 16 42 158 2.9
2028 9 5 0 3.40 23 23 113.7 94 43 15 40 150 2.7
2029 8 5 0 3.46 21 21 106.7 89 41 14 38 142 2.4





Dan Szymborski is a senior writer for FanGraphs and the developer of the ZiPS projection system. He was a writer for ESPN.com from 2010-2018, a regular guest on a number of radio shows and podcasts, and a voting BBWAA member. He also maintains a terrible Twitter account at @DSzymborski.

104 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
JimmieFoxxalorianMember since 2020
4 years ago

Rafael Devers! He should be the next young player to sign a long-term deal.

steveo
4 years ago

Well, he’s basically got 1.5 seasons left so he’d want a close to market value contract. More than likely he’s going to hit free agency and get 10/300ish. The Red Sox basically have to give it to him, right? Who else are they going to pay? I’m sure they want Eovaldi back, but he’s not going to get a big deal. Xander seems like a goner after that contract offer that was reported.

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
4 years ago
Reply to  steveo

If Devers has to move to 1B or DH they would have to choose between him and Casas, no?

Alan
4 years ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

In case you haven’t noticed Devers defense has improved drastically

Dmjn53
4 years ago
Reply to  Alan

I wouldn’t put too much stock into 6 weeks of defensive data. A guy that poor defensively in his early 20s is more than likely going to continue to be a poor defender

proiste
4 years ago
Reply to  Dmjn53

For what it’s worth, Statcast thought he was the absolute cat’s pajamas in 2019. He led all third basemen in OAA that year!

I don’t think the book is totally written on his defense

JimmieFoxxalorianMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  steveo

They have a lot of $$ coming off the books in the near future, and it’s become clear Devers is the most likely rock to build Bloomball around, whatever that may look like. The sooner they sign him the better, as his price is only going to increase each day forward.

The team is 13 games behind, and have suffered at the hands of a combo of bad luck on balls in play, unusually poor 2022 showings by 3/4ths of the roster, and a badly managed, low-talent pitching staff (except for Whitlock).

A sound longterm approach may be to lock up Devers today to a massive 10+yr deal , and trade all veterans of value immediately.

The trade deadline will be less impactful with the number of teams that will be on the fence of wildcard possibilities. Hence, the Sox may get more value back now if they are aggressive and make moves. Then after trades, promote Casas and Duran, get them at-bats. They’ve got little to lose in doing so since the team is so bad. Story is starting to hit, but even if everything else goes perfect, and no moves are made, best-case scenario they finish with 80 wins, no postseason, then lose X-man and others with nothing in return to build on. That’s not a very good best-case. I’m expecting Bloom to make some big changes sooner rather than later to improve the Sox long-term outlook, and that starts with signing Devers.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago

Sincerely, Red Sox Fan

proiste
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

It’s a Red Sox fan homer take, but it’s right! They should pay him. He’s younger than a bunch of other guys on this list? Why not?? Who else will they pay??

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
4 years ago

How about Adley Rutschman, Sean Murphy, Bobby Witt, Bo Bichette, Tommy Edman, and others a level below Franco and Tatis? John Hart signed a bunch of Indians in the late 20th Century

steveo
4 years ago

It’s absolutely incredible that the Astros let Carlos Correa walk and basically replaced him with another Carlos Correa.

Also, I really enjoy that zips spits out fair contracts. Not too player or team friendly. Though I do think the Julio Rodriguez contract is too player friendly. They’re just buying out one free agent year? I think they’d need at least one more free agent year if not two, to guarantee 100M.

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
4 years ago
Reply to  steveo

Yes even if his last couple of arb wins are $30m or even $40m it’s probably better to roll the dice on that

Mahoney
4 years ago
Reply to  steveo

I’m taking the over on Rodriguez’s projection, so I think there’s a real shot that he goes full Acuña, in which case a $17m AAV to buy out a single FA year isn’t going to get it done (even though that’s the same AAV as Franco got from TB).

The M’s should offer up something like 7/140 with a couple of club option years at say $25-30 per year. Other than the injury factor (which they can buy insurance to somewhat offset), I think J-Rod is a very good bet to be worth a lot more than that over the balance of this decade.

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
4 years ago
Reply to  Mahoney

If you were Rodriguez would you take the 7/140 but not the 7/100? How about 7/103?

Last edited 4 years ago by Ivan_Grushenko
Mahoney
4 years ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

It all probably depends upon the presence of and/or value of any club options. Without club options, I don’t think you’d need to go all the way to $140m to get Rodriguez signed for 7 years.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Mahoney

In addition to Rodriguez being the same age as Franco, the big difference in their value so far this year has been that Franco has played more. Franco got 11 years and $182M plus a club option. Who knows if the Mariners would be willing to sign an 11 year contract and maybe they think he won’t stick in CF but I think that when we’re getting into the $140M range it starts becoming advantageous for both sides to just go all out.

Last edited 4 years ago by sadtrombone
Mahoney
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I can definitely see a scenario where this turns into a Tatis Jr. type extension. Kid looks like the next face of the franchise, and (blasphemy warning!) has an outside chance to be the best OF in Mariners’ history.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Mahoney

That’s Wild Thing Vaughn levels of outside. Griffey averaged over 6 wins a season when he played for the Mariners. Griffey’s median season was 6.6 fWAR; I think Rodriguez can hit that level, maybe even multiple times, but averaging that level over 11 years is pretty much impossible for anyone.

Mahoney
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Over control years, or even the first 11 years, I basically agree – it’s a less than 0.1% chance scenario that Rodriguez outperforms Griffey.

But over an entire career, the high-end scenario for Rodriguez is possibly something like Frank Robinson – enough health and performance in his 30s to have an inner-circle HOF career. You could argue whether “best in history” encompasses peak value more than career value, but I say there’s a single-digit % chance that Rodriguez passes Griffey’s career value. Making this more of a “pitchout” level of outside.

Jason BMember since 2017
4 years ago
Reply to  Mahoney

Hey, zero is a single-digit %!

I kid, my abacus showed it as a 1.217% chance exactly. Abacusseseseses (abacii?) never lie.

jankees1991
4 years ago

Personally I think giving Yordan an extension would be a dereliction of duty by the Astros’ FO. Multiple knee surgeries by the time he’s 24? -that’s a disaster waiting to happen.

I don’t doubt his bat, but he has plenty of team control remaining that they can ride him out for now. Big bats aren’t exactly a rarity these days like they used to be.

4onejrMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  jankees1991

TBH, dude seems like he could swat homers from a wheel chair. Not sure if he needs his knees 🤣

Shirtless Bartolo Colon
4 years ago
Reply to  4onejr

If you can’t see them, you don’t need them.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  jankees1991

It’s a legitimate issue, because he’s a big guy. He’s also not yet 25, which could be used as a mark in his favor or against him when evaluating him for an extension. He’s pretty young, but also, that’s a lot of knee surgeries for a guy that young.

Last edited 4 years ago by sadtrombone
carterMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I think he looks bigger than he really is. He weighs less than Trout and Harper. He sort of has a big man build, but isn’t quite as big as we think he is.

D-WizMember since 2019
4 years ago
Reply to  carter

Listed weights are almost certainly wrong in almost every case so I’m not sure I’d place much stock in that…

carterMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  D-Wiz

I agree on that, but he also doesnt look that big, either.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  carter

Really? He looks like he has a lot of bad weight to me. (I also have a lot of bad weight)

This was part of why everyone kept writing him off. He just didn’t look the part. He didn’t look explosive, he didn’t move well, etc. Jokes on them! But I definitely think he looks big.

Jason BMember since 2017
4 years ago
Reply to  carter

Was that pre- or post-Subway sponsorship for Trout?

(Eat fresh.)

Last edited 4 years ago by Jason B
sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago

The cost of writing off a contract as a total waste, a la Evan White, is not that bad compared to the upside of getting Brandon Lowe under contract for a while. Virtually every single team with a good player who will be a free agent before they hit 30 should be offering them a contract through their early 30s. Tucker and Alvarez and Soto and Vlad Jr. and Julio Rodriguez make a ton of sense for this reason, as does Gimenez. If you buy Bichette Jr’s continued improvement to offset the insults of age, then him too.

Guys who are on the border are Willy Adames, Austin Riley, Tyler O’Neill, Shane Bieber, Michael Kopech, Dylan Cease, Ian Anderson, and Trevor Rogers. Luis Urias, Josh Naylor, and Andrew Vaughn too if you buy their performance this year and that they won’t just be permanently injured.

This is all assuming that guys with less than 2 years to free agency don’t count, but if so then there are others to add too (Rafael Devers, Julio Urias, etc).

Left of Centerfield
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Cleveland offered Bieber an extension recently, something around 3 years for $30 million. Which would cover his last two arbitration years + first year of FA. He reportedly scoffed at the offer. On the one hand, it seems a bit light for a guy who won the Cy Young two years ago. On the other hand, he had a shoulder injury last year and his velocity is noticeably down this year. So there’s a definite chance that he’s going to regret turning it down.

As for Naylor, I’d want to see a lot more. 77 PAs of A+ hitting isn’t enough for a guy who has negative defensive value.

fjtorres
4 years ago

November is the time to talk (or not) to Naylor.
Ditto Miller and Gimenez.

Bieber? That ship has sailed: if he fully recovers by season’s end, he won’t be interested and if he doesn’t, Cleveland will move on.

isavage
4 years ago

Where are you getting that 3/30 number, only thing I saw was that they had supposedly offered him an extension that “far surpassed” Blake Snell’s 5/50 extension. Not sure of the truth to that, but I wouldn’t risk 5/50 on Bieber right now.

carterMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Adames seems like a guy they should certainly be trying to lock up. Solid defense shortstop, with decent eye (ha) who runs a higher K rate and hits home runs. For as much as was made of his struggles with Tampa, his worst full season he still put up a 99wRC+.

MRDXolMember since 2021
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Adames I think the Brewers should jump at.

Bieber… shoulder injuries are really scary man

MikeSMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I think these deals work best if you look at them in aggregate and not individually. If you lock up a bunch of guys and get nothing out of one of them due to injury or just plain missing on the evaluation, you still come out ahead and you have cost certainty, which teams like. Local sports radio will be full of “they paid that guy and he sucked!” but any GM who listens to local sports radio will soon be working for them instead of an MLB team.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  MikeS

I don’t know if they do or don’t work best in the aggregate, but it is certainly easier to understand their value in the aggregate. Let’s take an example from above using the Andres Gimenez deal. I like this deal because it’s not all that different than the deal JP Crawford got, so it has some real-world analogues. You could see this deal happening.

If you paid him 6 years and $55M to buy out three free agent years and his three arbitration years, you’d be paying out $55M for roughly 16-16.5 wins. To take the most conservative possible estimate, let’s assume that this level of performance without the extension would net him Freddy Galvis’s arbitration numbers from many years ago–Galvis got $13.2M over three trips through arbitration. Even with this very conservative estimate, the team is getting a good deal for the free agent years–like, $5.3M per win levels of good. That’s a pretty clear discount over the market rate.

Of course, there’s always a chance this deal goes sideways. But there’s also a chance the deal goes even better for the team than what we’re seeing here. Here’s where seeing this in the aggregate helps: If you imagine doing this deal with, say, 8 players, you can start to play around with what the distribution of returns looks like. It should average out to roughly that 5.3M per win–a noticeably better use of money than spending it on the free agent market.

MikeSMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Your last sentence is exactly what I mean. Since I always look at the White Sox, they have done these deals with Anderson, Moncada, Jimenez, and Robert. Even if Jimenez keeps getting hurt, misses months of every season, and never becomes more than a 2 win player, the value=production/cost equation should still favor the team in aggregate for the four of them. You don’t say “we aren’t doing this anymore because we lost money on Eloy’s deal,” you say “if we hadn’t done these four deals it would have cost us $25M* more for the four of them over that time and we would have gotten the same production, so we did well.”

*Totally made up number, too lazy to crunch the real numbers.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  MikeS

A line that I’ve used here before is that the team has many opportunities and can spread risk around, but players don’t have that luxury. They only get one career. If a player is pre-arb and breaks their leg in fifteen places and never play again, they’re out of luck. If a team has given a guaranteed contract to a pre-arb guy who then breaks his leg in fifteen places, that’s not good but on average they’ll probably still win out with the other three or four guys they did that with.

This is how pre-arb extensions are often to everyone’s benefit. The player gives up the chance to max out their salary, but they’re guaranteed to make a healthy proportion of it and they avoid financial ruin by their career going sideways. The team does better overall because it can absorb the losses of that one career going sideways, and comes out ahead in total dollars.

elwood7_
4 years ago

One of my main questions as a Brewers fan is will we extend one of the big 3 or Lauer?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  elwood7_

Here’s the thing that I’ve pondering over: Adames, Woodruff, Burnes, and Lauer are all free agents after the 2024 season. They’ll all be over 30, but Adames and Lauer will be close and Burnes is about a year older than Adames (Woodruff is well over 2.5 years older than Adames so he’s in a slightly different boat). Does it make more sense to:

1) Extend one or more? The only other players who will still be under contract at this point who have been decent contributors of any kind for any length of time and still under control in 2025 are Peralta, Urias, Tellez, Yelich, and Devin Williams. So if you extend only one of them, it’s not like there’s a huge core sticking around. You have to have a ton of faith in Ashby, Wiemer, Frelick, Turang, and Black that they’ll be up and rocking (I suppose you could say Chourio too, but he’s super far away).

2) Go all in from now until 2024. Part of this would be focusing on retaining Narvaez and Hader. But it would also involve finding help in center field, right field (Renfroe shouldn’t be trusted and his contract is up sooner anyway), and somewhere in the infield (for the post Kolten Wong era). I think this is probably not what they’re doing, since their big moves were things like sign Andrew McCutchen this past offseason. But the Brewers are sitting their at 14th in wRC+ and 2nd in pitching fWAR, so it’s not exactly a mystery where they can improve.

carterMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Adames will not be over 30 after the 2024 season.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  carter

Is that right? He’s 26 and 8 months now. So at the end of the season he’ll be approximately 27. And then two years later he’ll be 29. He’ll be half a year older than that at the beginning of 2025, so he’ll be about 29 and a half. So I stand corrected.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago

Julio Rodriguez in April: .205/.284/.260, good for a 67 wRC+
Julio Rodriguez in May: .339/.381/.492, good for a 165 wRC+

I think the kid will be alright.

Mahoney
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

If this holds up (and I’m leaning towards yes), the one-month adjustment period to the majors is one more thing J-Rod has in common with Franco.

And Trout.

joelbarlow
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

did the umps become less racist?

Jason BMember since 2017
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I think he will be just fine also, but just as we shouldn’t overreact to a small-sample April (he’s a bust!), I wouldn’t overreact to a small-sample May (next Griffey!) either.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Jason B

It’s funny you mention this, because I had calculated something out just to see what his full-season stats would look like if you just took his batting line and his observed defensive stats and prorated them out over a full season. It’s remarkably similar to Griffey’s 1993 season, with a 164 wRC+ and 8 Def. Of course, Griffey had a whopping 691 PAs that year (remarkably, he topped 700 each year from 1997-1999). And Rodriguez is doing all this running an absurd .429 BABIP. (And in a window that I specifically picked to make him look good, but we knew that already).

So, no, I don’t think he’s gonna be Griffey. Rodriguez isn’t going to sustain that BABIP, and he’s not going to be the all-world CFer that Griffey was between 1994 and 1997. Nobody puts up 8 wins a year unless you’re Mike Trout, and counting on anyone to be the next Mike Trout is a losing bet. The guy he reminds me of is Andre Dawson. He’s almost exactly the same size, he’s a pretty good center fielder who had to move to the corner later in his career (although Dawson had to because his knee was shot), and he swings a bit more than you would want and mostly gets away with it. He’s never going to have the plate discipline and methodical grinding approach that characterized guys like Trout or Griffey. The limits of what even a super-talented hitter can do consistently from year to year is more like Andre Dawson (who was more consistent year to year) or Matt Kemp (who was a supernova some years and merely average in others).

In short, I think he’s got an excellent chance for a 6 win season, potentially as many as 3-4 seasons like that, and that his best shot for them will probably come while he’s still good in center field.. But these two weeks of May are bananas and I doubt it’s going to look like that long-term.

CC AFCMember since 2016
4 years ago

So it seems like there are two distinct types of players here. The “lock up the studs for as long as you can” guys, which applies to a lot of the players on this list, like Vlad, McClanahan, Yordan and (I’d argue) Julio. The other is young guys who are showing skills that look like good bets but also haven’t accomplished enough to make them so confident in themselves that they would be extraordinarily expensive or uninterested in an extension. That applies to Gimenez and Stephenson.

One guy I like in the latter category is Daulton Varsho. He’s showing a lot of gains in his plate discipline (less swings outside the zone) that’s not fully showing up in his surface states and especially batted balls (more FB, less GB, more pulled). Young players who struggle, make adjustments and succeed are guys I want to bet on going forward.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  CC AFC

I’m probably Daulton Varsho’s #1 fan (at least as a center fielder) but he’s not exactly young. He’s about 26 now and he’s got over 4 years of team control. In comparison, Gimenez has almost exactly the same amount of service time and is over two years younger. This probably shouldn’t be so much a knock on Varsho as it is a compliment to Gimenez, who is just doing great at a relatively young age. But in comparison with Gimenez, you have to have confidence that Varsho is going to age well.

CC AFCMember since 2016
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Yeah, I think he hits well enough that he’ll be fine as a corner in his early 30s

Mahoney
4 years ago

What would ZiPS have for a fair contract for Royce Lewis right now, vs. at the start of the 2022 season?

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
4 years ago
Reply to  Mahoney

Well his 2022 projection went from 0 WAR to basically 2 WAR

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
4 years ago
Reply to  Dan Szymborski

I would be curious to know what level of player and what experience level you think teams should set the bar at. Projected third year 3 WAR? Rays signed Longoria as he made the majors. Would projections beyond 3 years be useful or too uncertain?

Last edited 4 years ago by Ivan_Grushenko
Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
4 years ago
Reply to  Dan Szymborski

If depth matters it implies that candidates would include above average non-superstars, since the Francos and Tatis’s aren’t affected by the likes of Taylor Walls and CJ Abrams

fjtorres
4 years ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

In the real world it does.

Don’t need to go too far to find examples either. Given all the Cleveland talk, how about Straw? Nobody expects him to be star but having him nailed down at a reasonable price for a few years is perfectly reasonable. If some bodies show to squeeze him out they don’t get heartburn if he ends up as a 4th OF. Or gets traded for a lottery ticket.

Managing the roster/payroll is as much about controlling the floor as securing the ceiling.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Dan Szymborski

What if they published the 15,000 word article after they murdered you? Wouldn’t there still be an article? I mean, there are some downsides to that for you so I wouldn’t recommend it but this seems like a weak argument against incitement to murder.

John Elway
4 years ago
Reply to  Dan Szymborski

Couldn’t you just trot out five 3,000 word articles? They shouldn’t put you out to pasture for that.

Just neighing.

edwinblumeMember since 2016
4 years ago
Reply to  Dan Szymborski

Could a 1 player per team series be coming?? Maybe grouped by division?

TerenceMember since 2016
4 years ago

Looking at all these tables makes me curious about power projections and aging curves.

Yordan is 24 and his power has already peaked? We expect him to continually decline?
Stephenson is 25 and his power will continue to increase until he is 30?

I’m sure there’s alot going on here. When do we expect player’s power generally to peak? What types of players peak earlier? What types of players peak later?

carterMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Terence

Yea, that seems surprising too. Given that zips has him at 44 home runs this year, and he is pacing for 60.

JimmieFoxxalorianMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Terence

With really good sluggers, there seems to always be cases where there’s a surprise still-got-it power surge that happens at least once or twice in post-prime years. Like age 32 seasons of Andre Dawson and Frank Thomas, or age 34 seasons of Willie Mays and Reggie Jackson. Although in Dawson’s case, driven by that crazy juiced ball 1987 year.

jyokley
4 years ago

Just look at Marcus Semien last year

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago

Frank Thomas also did it again at age 35 and age 38. I seem to recall that he never really lost it, but he had a bunch of nagging injuries after age 30 that occasionally would leave him at less than full strength.

Frank Thomas is definitely the guy I’m going to tell my kids about. He. was. awesome.

Jason BMember since 2017
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

He was an early adapter of Nugenics. Remember guys, she’ll like it too. *shit-eating grin*

TheUncool
4 years ago
Reply to  Dan Szymborski

But which superstars-at-young-age didn’t actually get better… at least hitting more HRs though?

I can’t think of any offhand, but can easily think of plenty to the contrary.

Sure, someone hitting 50 HRs at 22-yo isn’t likely to hit consistently more than that as he ages, but that’s not where we’re starting from though… nor is Yordan’s ZIPS projection even allowing him to stay at his current level, but already seems to have him declining significantly, which doesn’t make sense. Likewise w/ Vladito’s projection — not that I necessarily expect a 50-HR projection, but that ZIPS projection is waaay lower…

I’ve pointed something like this out before about ZIPS age curve projections for some other cases that didn’t make much sense. Just seems like ZIPS may simply be overly pessimistic…

shortstop
4 years ago

“He’s on pace to face the most third-time-through-the-order batters for an under-30 Ray since Blake Snell in 2018” is the deep cut stat I didn’t know I needed today!

Jason BMember since 2017
4 years ago
Reply to  shortstop

Would love a deep-cut-stat-of-the-day!

shaq_diesel
4 years ago

McClanahan is 2nd in K% (4th is a loooong way away), 1st in xFIP (by a lot), and 3rd in ground ball percentage. He might be the best pitcher in baseball until deGrom comes back. Every start he makes, he makes it tougher for the Rays to get a deal done.

shaq_diesel
4 years ago

I’d really like to see what ZiPS suggests for extensions for thus far failed prospects. Kelenic, Adell, Pearson, Mize.

joelbarlow
4 years ago
Reply to  shaq_diesel

Dylan Carlson, Witt, Kelenic, etc

Seems like a number of hyped hitting prospects are getting murdered by a dead ball

SyndergaardengnomesMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  joelbarlow

It could be a superball and it wouldn’t help Kelenic. You still need to be able to make contact.

Dmjn53
4 years ago

Well his 30% K rate is manageable, you see more than enough guys succeed with that K rate, but those guys destroy the ball when they make contact. Kelenic was running an 94 mph exit velo

Lanidrac
4 years ago
Reply to  joelbarlow

Carlson has had a very good May.

joelbarlow
4 years ago

time to lock up Bobby Witt Jr

stever20Member since 2017
4 years ago

I’d be curious to see thoughts on Keibert Ruiz with the Nationals. He’d seem to be a pretty decent candidate for one.

shaq_diesel
4 years ago
Reply to  stever20

Do catchers ever get locked up? They’re kind of like relief pitchers…good until they’re not, and the position keeps them from ever becoming a star. Sal Perez is about the only young catcher I can recall getting locked up, and the Royals sure didn’t offer him much to sign that first contract.

If catchers hit enough, they get moved off the position. If they get playing time because of their defense, they don’t get paid in arbitration.

fjtorres
4 years ago
Reply to  shaq_diesel

Sandy Alomar.

shaq_diesel
4 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

Junior or Senior? One is 50 something and the other is 70 something. Not sure of the relevancy here.

fjtorres
4 years ago
Reply to  shaq_diesel

Junior. The catcher. Senior was a 2B, like Roberto.

He and Baerga were in the first wave of young players John Hart signed up long term pre-arb. Manny, Thome, Lofton, followed.

Dmjn53
4 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

still though, that’s ancient history

fjtorres
4 years ago
Reply to  Dmjn53

But that’s where the trend of signing young players to long extension *started*, John Hart in clevelanfd, and it started with a catcher. And he wasn’t the last, either.

So yes, teams do sign catchers to long early deals; there just aren’t many suitable players just now, with catcher defense at a premium. That may change with roboumps but in the meantime Ruschman is a possibility in the next couple of years.

Besides, “ancient history” is what baseball is centered around. Prospects come and prospect go; but the players, managers, and GMs that change the game are remembered.

shaq_diesel
4 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

There’s several GMs that weren’t alive when that deal was signed. That deal was signed closer to Curt Flood signing his than Keibert Ruiz potentially signing his.

If young catchers signing long term extensions was a regular thing, we wouldn’t be discussing one from 30+ years ago. Even Sal Perez’ was 10 years ago.

miltonfriedman
4 years ago

tarik skubal-The best young lefty in the game

cregwalkerMember since 2022
4 years ago
Reply to  miltonfriedman

Props to Skubal for getting off to a good start, but McClanahan is both better and younger.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  cregwalker

You could also make a pretty strong argument for Julio Urias, who is amazingly only a few months older than Skubal, less than a year older than McClanahan, and who broke out in a big way last year.

If you want to lower the threshold on age for what counts as “young” then you’d probably want to go with MacKenzie Gore, who just turned 23 three months ago.

And if you really want to go with the youngest possible guy, Reid Detmers is the only starting lefty under 23 that I know of (so he would win by default if you lowered the threshold that low). He also already has a no-hitter to his name, which would also be pretty neat if anyone else was out there competing with him.

Jason BMember since 2017
4 years ago
Reply to  miltonfriedman

I enjoy gleaning Tiger-fanboy things from Mr. Friedman in these articles. He puts the fan in fanatic!

“You know who was the best player of the late 90s? Bobby Higginson.”

“For my money, Tony Clark was by a large margin the best first baseman ever to play the game.”

“Carlos Guillen’s 2007 season was the single finest shortstop season anyone has ever had ever.”

MikeSMember since 2020
4 years ago

By most reports, the White Sox did approach Giolito and he declined. Not that he is unhappy in Chicago, but he has repeatedly said that he “knows what his value is” so I think he is not interested in giving up any future earning potential and is looking forward to free agency. He seems to be a smart, thoughtful guy so I think he knows what the risk is.

Now would definitely be the time to lock up Cease if he is willing. I think Kopech would have to accept the right price because of his injury history and range of outcomes and I think he and the team might have very different ideas of what “the right price” is right now.

These deals get more tricky for pitchers. Not just because of injury potential but because giving away just one year of free agency can cost them a lot of money. Rightly or wrongly, I think teams look at pitchers who are 29, 30 and 31 all very differently. So hitting FA at 30 instead of 29 can result in a much smaller deal even if the player gets “market rate” for that year they are giving up. It gets worse if they sign a team option and end up giving up 2 years.

shumway
4 years ago
Reply to  MikeS

Problem is the White Sox don’t sign starting pitchers to long term deals. Maybe this will change but I’m not hopeful. I’m sure they insulted Giolito with any offer just like they did during his arbitration this year.

mdgwsu89
4 years ago

The chili is good, Dan

shaq_diesel
4 years ago

What’s an Ohtani extension look like? Half a billion in play yet?

catmanwayne
4 years ago
Reply to  shaq_diesel

Honestly, he strikes me as the kind of player who’ll rather bet on himself as a free agent. Although, Angels owner Arte Moreno has a nasty habit of giving players a blank check so maybe Ohtani will take a lifetime contract and become baseball’s first billionaire player.

gottaIch116Member since 2020
4 years ago

What’s been up with the projections on fangraphs lately? They all seem incredibly optimistic. Mike Trout is currently projected to have a 195 wRC+ ros according to zips.

Sorry. Not relevant to the article. Didn’t know where to post.

tung_twista
4 years ago
Reply to  gottaIch116

Agreed.
For another example, ZiPS projects Vladdy Jr. hitting wrc+ 175 and 5.1 WAR in 121 games for the remaining 2022. 
Yet, OPS+ 152 and 4.4 war for the entire 2023.
While I don’t think these projections are unreasonable by themselves,
the same system spitting out both these numbers do not make much sense to me. 

radivel
4 years ago

I don’t think Vlad will accept that contract. Jays fans would be thrilled if he did, but I expect he wants his deal to start with a 2, or even a 3. Odds are, it’ll start with a 2.

TheUncool
4 years ago
Reply to  radivel

With projections like those (for contract basis), especially w/ those decline rates while he’s still only 23, nobody should blame Vlad if he suspects he’s being lowballed…

catmanwayne
4 years ago

That Julio deal looks really light on years, depending on when it happens. Mariners will want to lock him up through as many free agent years as possible at below market rate. They didn’t game his service time, and he’s playing well while the team is struggling so they have no incentive to demote him unless they want fans to come rolling in with a guillotine. He won’t make it easy for them to lowball him either, especially if/when he stops hitting grounders all the time. I think somewhere in the middle of the Acuna and Franco deals is where Julio will end up.

SelectchrlMember since 2020
4 years ago

Love the article. Would be awesome to see it for every team. As a Cubs fan I vote Nico.

lemurineMember since 2017
4 years ago

Willy Adames maybe?

shaq_diesel
4 years ago
Reply to  lemurine

He has half a season of above average production, preceded by 3 years of mediocrity. It’s really hard to see anything getting done soon. Arbitration won’t pay him enough for the Brewers to want to buy out arb years, as it would be far fetched to expect the Brewers to give him $25M+ per year if they are buying out his first few years of FA, after only paying him $7-8M in his final year of arbitration. At the same time, Adames’ side will want market value for a 4+ win SS, which he hasn’t yet proven that he is.

Mostly, it’s just hard to see a team giving him 3-4 times per year year more than what they pay him in his last year of arb. Not much savings in that, but that’s what Adames’ side will want.

Lanidrac
4 years ago

What about Harrison Bader of the Cardinals? He’s settled in as an elite defensive CF with about an average bat, and he has less that two years of team control remaining.