ZiPS 2021 Top 100 Prospects
For the sixth year, ZiPS returns to crank out its top 100 prospects for the upcoming season. If you’re unaware of what the ZiPS projections are or the purpose they serve, please consult this article as well as this one while I reconsider my public relations strategy.
I like to think that I’ve developed a pretty useful tool over the years, but don’t get me wrong: a projection system is not even remotely a substitute for proper scouting. While ZiPS and other systems like it can see patterns in the data that are hard for humans to extract, humans have their own special tricks. Projecting prospects is hard, as you’re mostly dealing with very young players, some of whom aren’t even done physically developing. They play baseball against inconsistent competition and have much shorter resumés than established major leaguers.
That last bit is an especially tricky puzzle for 2021. Thanks to the COVID-19 pandemic, we didn’t have a minor league season. Some prospects were left to train at home, while others saw time at their team’s alternate site or in Fall Instructional League. But those environments can’t replace live opponents who are trying to crush your hopes and dreams, and they didn’t generate much in the way of useful statistics.
You will also notice, as usual, that there are a few players who appeared on Eric Longenhagen’s Top 100 who are missing here, simply because they have only played in high school and no professional games. It’s not that ZiPS dislikes them or doubts their future, it’s just that the system doesn’t have anything useful to say. ZiPS has the capability to use college stats when it has little choice — which is why you’ll see Spencer Torkelson and Austin Martin appear — but there’s just nothing for ZiPS to work with when we’re talking about someone like Jasson Dominguez.
But when ZiPS does have something to say, it does a decent job of identifying future major leaguers. If we look back to the prospects from the inaugural ZiPS Top 100, they’ve gone on to combine for 638 WAR in the majors. And while ZiPS will miss more often on the toolsy guys, there were also some higher floor guys who ZiPS liked better than the other prognosticators, including Mookie Betts, George Springer, Marcus Semien, Kolten Wong, and Joc Pederson. This is less of a problem in the big leagues because by the time a player has reached the top of the organizational ladder, they will generally have already needed to convert at least some of their raw tools into baseball skills. Statcast and the like give us clever ways to capture things like speed or a pitcher’s stuff more effectively than ever before, but these measures can’t tell us everything, and they’re generally less available for minor leaguers. ZiPS doesn’t know who has a hitch in their swing and an inconsistent arm slot. As it turns out, however, actual performance has a lot of predictive value, and ZiPS is very happy to see a two-to-three win contributor like Wong where a prospect-watcher may be relatively unimpressed with his upside potential. One good example in the other direction is Dellin Betances. When he was an extremely erratic starting pitcher with severe control issues, ZiPS didn’t see any real upside. After all, guys who walk seven batters a game in the minors rarely pan out in the majors. What ZiPS couldn’t see was one of Betances’ teammates teaching him a new slider grip, which resulted in a pitch on the slider/cutter border that terrorized batters for five seasons.
Now to consider this year’s exercise. There’s not as much movement here as there has been in past years simply because there was no minor league season to send stocks soaring or crashing. Players with more upside but who needed time to develop it generally lost the most in the projections as a result of losing a year of their careers, as did the older prospects. One other difference of note is that I spent much of 2020 honing the minor league translations for lower-level prospects, with the biggest change being the implementation of some probability-based fielding data into the BABIP models. Re-projecting the 2014 prospects using this refined model would have improved the WAR total for the new ZiPS 2014 top 100 to 663 WAR. I do expect ZiPS to cede some ground to the scouts as time goes on; the higher floor, lower ceiling prospects that ZiPS likes tend to reach the majors more quickly.
With less dramatic changes and no minor league season to talk about, most of the commentary below will concern players who got major league time in 2020, as they played actual games. Without further ado, the 2021 ZiPS Top 100!
| ZiPS Rank | Name | Team | Pos | Eric’s Rank |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Wander Franco | TBR | SS | 1 |
| 2 | Ha-seong Kim | SDP | SS | 64 |
| 3 | Ke’Bryan Hayes | PIT | 3B | 7 |
| 4 | Dylan Carlson | STL | LF | 16 |
| 5 | Ian Anderson | ATL | SP | 13 |
| 6 | Nolan Jones | CLE | LF | 52 |
| 7 | Sixto Sánchez | MIA | SP | 28 |
| 8 | Adley Rutschman | BAL | C | 3 |
| 9 | Nate Pearson | TOR | SP | 10 |
| 10 | Marco Luciano | SFG | SS | 11 |
| 11 | Keibert Ruiz | LAD | C | 80 |
| 12 | Randy Arozarena | TBR | LF | 4 |
| 13 | Jarred Kelenic | SEA | RF | 5 |
| 14 | Riley Greene | DET | RF | 38 |
| 15 | Luis Campusano | SDP | C | 27 |
| 16 | Deivi García | NYY | SP | 60 |
| 17 | Matt Manning | DET | SP | 18 |
| 18 | MacKenzie Gore | SDP | SP | 2 |
| 19 | Cristian Pache | ATL | CF | 8 |
| 20 | Jeter Downs | BOS | 2B | 53 |
| 21 | Brendan McKay | TBR | SP | 123 |
| 22 | Trevor Rogers | MIA | SP | 104 |
| 23 | Nick Madrigal | CHW | 2B | 39 |
| 24 | Austin Martin | TOR | CF | 44 |
| 25 | Spencer Torkelson | DET | 1B | 9 |
| 26 | Alejandro Kirk | TOR | C | 74 |
| 27 | Miguel Amaya | CHC | C | Unranked |
| 28 | Julio Rodríguez | SEA | RF | 20 |
| 29 | Braden Shewmake | ATL | SS | Unranked |
| 30 | Alex Kirilloff | MIN | RF | 17 |
| 31 | Nolan Gorman | STL | 3B | 40 |
| 32 | Simeon Woods Richardson | TOR | SP | 72 |
| 33 | Jordan Balazovic | MIN | SP | 81 |
| 34 | Nick Gonzales | PIT | 2B | 86 |
| 35 | Taylor Walls | TBR | SS | 108 |
| 36 | Miguel Vargas | LAD | 1B | Unranked |
| 37 | Cody Morris | CLE | RP | Unranked |
| 38 | Luis Patiño | TBR | SP | 12 |
| 39 | Gabriel Arias | CLE | SS | Unranked |
| 40 | Jazz Chisholm | MIA | SS | 48 |
| 41 | Josh Lowe | TBR | CF | 56 |
| 42 | Drew Waters | ATL | CF | 47 |
| 43 | CJ Abrams | SDP | 2B | 6 |
| 44 | Logan Gilbert | SEA | SP | 37 |
| 45 | Michael Kopech | CHW | SP | 34 |
| 46 | Spencer Howard | PHI | SP | 33 |
| 47 | Josh Fleming | TBR | SP | Unranked |
| 48 | Asa Lacy | KCR | SP | 25 |
| 49 | Alec Bettinger | MIL | P | Unranked |
| 50 | Jeff Bain | ARI | P | Unranked |
| 51 | Josiah Gray | LAD | SP | 29 |
| 52 | Vidal Bruján | TBR | 2B | 24 |
| 53 | Tarik Skubal | DET | SP | 22 |
| 54 | Austin Hays | BAL | CF | Unranked |
| 55 | Ryan Mountcastle | BAL | LF | 94 |
| 56 | Owen Miller | CLE | SS | Unranked |
| 57 | Max Meyer | MIA | SP | 26 |
| 58 | Casey Mize | DET | SP | 32 |
| 59 | Ben Rortvedt | MIN | C | Unranked |
| 60 | George Valera | CLE | RF | 63 |
| 61 | Sherten Apostel | TEX | 3B | Unranked |
| 62 | Leody Taveras | TEX | CF | 121 |
| 63 | Ryan Jeffers | MIN | C | 59 |
| 64 | Xavier Edwards | TBR | 2B | 84 |
| 65 | Grayson Rodriguez | BAL | SP | 30 |
| 66 | Tyler Freeman | CLE | 2B | 88 |
| 67 | Triston Casas | BOS | 1B | 54 |
| 68 | Emerson Hancock | SEA | SP | 57 |
| 69 | Braxton Garrett | MIA | P | Unranked |
| 70 | Brett Conine | HOU | P | Unranked |
| 71 | Connor Seabold | BOS | SP | Unranked |
| 72 | Daulton Jefferies | OAK | P | Unranked |
| 73 | Shane McClanahan | TBR | RP | 119 |
| 74 | Jhoan Duran | MIN | SP | 82 |
| 75 | Tucker Davidson | ATL | P | Unranked |
| 76 | Kevin Padlo | TBR | 3B | Unranked |
| 77 | Garrett Whitlock | BOS | RP | Unranked |
| 78 | Edward Cabrera | MIA | SP | 50 |
| 79 | Aaron Ashby | MIL | RP | 127 |
| 80 | Jordan Groshans | TOR | 3B | 77 |
| 81 | Garrett Crochet | CHW | RP | 73 |
| 82 | Andy Pages | LAD | CF | 117 |
| 83 | Chris Vallimont | MIN | SP | Unranked |
| 84 | Ezequiel Duran | NYY | 2B | 132 |
| 85 | Jacob Amaya | LAD | SS | 118 |
| 86 | Brennen Davis | CHC | CF | 41 |
| 87 | Mitch White | LAD | RP | Unranked |
| 88 | Bryan Mata | BOS | RP | Unranked |
| 89 | Joey Bart | SFG | C | 55 |
| 90 | Andrew Vaughn | CHW | 1B | 14 |
| 91 | Emmanuel Clase | CLE | RP | Unranked |
| 92 | Gilberto Celestino | MIN | CF | Unranked |
| 93 | Jean Carlos Mejia | CLE | SP | Unranked |
| 94 | A.J. Puk | OAK | SP | 99 |
| 95 | Royce Lewis | MIN | SS | 23 |
| 96 | Cory Abbott | CHC | SP | Unranked |
| 97 | Daniel Lynch | KCR | SP | 62 |
| 98 | Matthew Liberatore | STL | SP | 111 |
| 99 | Orelvis Martinez | TOR | SS | 89 |
| 100 | Forrest Whitley | HOU | SP | 106 |
Wander Franco remains at the very top of the list. He’s as complete a talent as you can find at his age and the missed year probably has a bigger cost to his wallet than to his development. There’s literally as much difference between Franco and runner-up Ha-seong Kim’s projections as there is between Kim and number 30 prospect Alex Kirilloff. ZiPS projects 46 career WAR for Franco and sees him as an .875 OPS hitter at his peak, an absolutely bananas projections for a player who has yet to play above the High-A Florida State League. If ZiPS gave number grades, he’d be an 80, probably joining Mike Trout. Trout was “only” projected at 4 WAR as a rookie, but that was still an optimistic projection until we saw what he actually did!
You get the biggest difference between my list and Eric’s early with the aforementioned Kim. Kim projects as a three-win hitter right now, and the best player coming over from Korea ever projected, so given the lack of speculation required to make him a significant talent in the majors, he was always going to have a very high ranking.
ZiPS has been high on Ke’Bryan Hayes for a very long time and over his minor league career, it had him as the best defensive third baseman since Matt Chapman. Sometimes glove guys in the minors don’t actually work out that way — he can ask his teammate Gregory Polanco — but Hayes gave very little reason to doubt the hype in his limited time in the majors in 2020. He’s quite obviously not going to continue to hit .376/.442/.682, but that performance was enough to shift his projection in a positive direction. In terms of rest-of-career WAR, ZiPS has Hayes as fourth in baseball among third basemen, behind only Alex Bregman, Chapman, and José Ramírez, and just edging out Alec Bohm and Rafael Devers.
Ian Anderson and Sixto Sánchez excelling late in the season was enough to boost their ranks significantly. Deivi García also got a jump, and while his stats weren’t obviously a plus, ZiPS isn’t worried about the extra homers he allowed. ZiPS also thinks that Nate Pearson’s walks were a little higher than you’d expect from his plate discipline stats, and getting some actual velocity and contact data in there also gave him a bump.
The two biggest beneficiaries of the revised low minors translations are Julio Rodríguez and Braden Shewmake, though for different reasons. The boost to Shewmake’s BABIP and the inclusion of wider college data make the projections more confident that he has a very respectable floor. Rodríguez has more downside, but also more upside scenarios that involve him becoming a 30-homer hitter in a corner, with a chance at his plate discipline improving. On-average, ZiPS sees Rodríguez like Jermaine Dye, which isn’t bad for a mean expectation.
Seasons lost due to injuries hit the rankings of both Brendan McKay and Brent Honeywell Jr. significantly. But the Rays got good news elsewhere: Josh Fleming looks like he’s going to stick as a mid-rotation starter with no star potential and Luis Patiño’s minor league translations took a significant jump up. And, of course, there’s Randy Arozarena, who still qualifies for the Rookie of the Year award in 2021, as weird as that feels after his postseason performance. Some may be disappointed by Arozarena only ranking 12th, but he’s not likely to have a ton of defensive value and there’s probably not another breakout waiting. In all, the Rays have 11 players in the ZiPS Top 100.
As an Orioles fan, it pained me to see Adley Rutschman slip to eighth. What it comes down to is that he’s not an 18-year-old phenom and catcher prospects have very high failure potential, so ZiPS sees him having missed a year of development as a significant problem.
One projection certain to disappoint is that of Andrew Vaughn, a player who the White Sox are making noise about promoting aggressively this year. I can’t say for certain if that desire is earnest and not partially a public cover for not going after someone like Nelson Cruz for the team’s DH spot, but ZiPS is not sold at all on Vaughn. ZiPS is aware of his power while at Cal. Indeed, if all it knew was Vaughn’s sub-.450 slugging debut while not being young for A-ball, he would not have come anywhere near this list. On the flip side, college was enough for Spencer Torkelson and Austing Martin to do well. If Torkelson had received an official ZiPS for 2021, his top comp would be Jim Thome. That’s obviously not the average result. The projections see Martin as a high-average, high-OBP hitter in his prime, with a peak in the 115-125 wRC+ range, certainly enough that he doesn’t necessarily have to excel at an up-the-middle defensive position.
Overall, there was a lot of agreement between ZiPS and The Board. In all, 74 players appeared on both top 100 lists, which is about average for ZiPS/scout consensus; there tended to be a similar amount of overlap between ZiPS and Keith Law’s rankings when both of our lists were housed at ESPN.
If there’s anyone else you want more ZiPS insight on, let me know in the comments! And if you enjoyed this work, please consider becoming a FanGraphs member. Your support is what gives us the time to work on projects like this!
Dan Szymborski is a senior writer for FanGraphs and the developer of the ZiPS projection system. He was a writer for ESPN.com from 2010-2018, a regular guest on a number of radio shows and podcasts, and a voting BBWAA member. He also maintains a terrible Twitter account at @DSzymborski.
Does ZiPS incorporate postseason performance? I.e., does it “know” what Randy Arozarena did last October?
Yes, ZiPS uses postseasons!
I’d be interested to see what ZiPS does with Oneil Cruz.
Came here to say this. Also, does ZiPS incorporate positions changes? Like, could ZiPS look at his body and say, “no way, he’s too big, this guy has to go to 3B, OF, or 1B”
As a cubs fan, I love seeing Cory Abbott on this list. Whats the ZiPS scoop with him?
Dan, you evidently forgot to include the Reds in this run of ZiPS…….. 🙁
/s
What does ZiPs like about Liberatore? Eric said Libby struggles to hide his fastball which seems like something thatZiPs may miss out on. But he is a pretty toolsy pitcher, was surprised to see ZiPs that high on him. Does ZiPs think he could be a #2?
Thanks Dave-great work as always! Quick clarification: is #93 Jean Carlos Mejia?
Oops, I think our player linker ate him. I’ll go in and fix.
Who is Dave?
Good question, not the author of this post, that’s for sure.
The funny thing is that at ESPN, editors got my first name wrong more often than the last name!
My first name is Daniel, and I used to introduce myself indifferently as ‘Dan’, or ‘Daniel’ – but I gradually noticed that people to whom I was introduced as ‘Dan’ were the ones who couldn’t remember that I was ‘Don’ or ‘Dave’, while ‘Daniel’ stuck better with people.
Probably not helpful, but maybe in some contexts, like Starbucks, that’ll help prevent confusion..
Casey Mize seems to be getting dogged or lauded. ZiPS is almost middle of the road. Is ZiPS cautious on his injury risk/history?
I think I buy this list as a whole. It’s interesting, though, I went down and made a list of the guys where I thought “that is definitely, definitely too high” and the three of the five were guys with big power and K-rates (Jazz Chisholm, Nolan Jones, Kevin Padlo). Those guys scare the heck out of me.
The other guys are Keibert Ruiz and Nick Madrigal, both of whom I used to love as prospects because they never struck out, but I am worrying more and more about the power. I think they are still Top 100 guys and maybe Top 50 but ZiPs probably just figures they have to hit for more power and I just don’t know if that’s true anymore. Plus, the defense does not seem to be quite as good as advertised.
Im more worried about the rest of Ruiz as the Dodgers teach power well and he could be an entirely useful catcher with just contact skills getting on base, but the big 2019 dip in his contact still alarms, though there’s a lot of scuttlebutt he did really well at the alternate site
I’d be interested in how ZIPS views the other top college hitters from 2020’s draft class (after the top 3 on your list), since we didn’t get to see them play in the minors — Kjerstad, Mitchell, Wells, Foscue, Sabato.
What kind of line does ZIPS see for Kirk? Is he a catcher in those projections?
The two guys I am surprised not to see on here are Brandon Marsh and Trevor Larnach. I’m guessing ZiPs doesn’t like the fact that their power hasn’t translated to home runs yet, but Marsh can probably play CF pretty well, and Larnach’s approach probably makes him a major leaguer.
I’m not surprised to see that Geraldo Perdomo (ARI) isn’t on there because he hasn’t shown much power, but I’m curious what ZiPs thinks of him too.
What stats is ZiPS using to rank Riley Greene that high? He has no college stats and barely any minor league stats either
Error bars are naturally huge, but it loved that he had at that environment at his age.
Keibert Ruiz is the biggest move up on the list, I think, and yet went unmentioned.
Man, prospects week is the best.
better than Christmas, for my money
Man, Bobby Witt was really hit hard by the lack of a 2020 season.
Yeah, he’s exactly the type of player ZiPS is going to struggle with.
Thank you, Dan! I love the work that you and the team at FG do around prospects. This is easily worth the membership.
Quick question around Keibert Ruiz: is Paul Lo Duca (with a grade less on D) a decent comp for him in terms of overall skill set? Or maybe Brian Harper? Or do you think there is more power to come from Ruiz than either of these catchers showed?
Thanks for this great stuff Dan! You have remarked in other places before about how you like the direction your modeling of defense has progressed. Without doing any deep fly-specking, some of the players and their relative positioning on this list seems to reflect that ZiPS assigns meaningful weight to defense (Leody Taveras comes to mind mind, as do the #/ranking of catchers, and your comment on Arozarena). That is much appreciated.
Do you think defensive modeling (accuracy, weight) is one feature that materially distinguishes ZiPS from other projection/rankings systems?
It’s hard to say without knowing exactly how other people are dealing with it!
Defense is a tricky one. Before I really dove into Gameday data, one thing I developed was a text parsing for scouting reports; certain phrases were linked to better defense. But this works a bit better and it’s done a good job in some places at turning me onto guys with significant defensive value — it loved both Hayes and loved Luis Robert’s 2019 and had Lil’ Yaz as one of the best defensive corner outfielders.
When I run the methodology on MLB stats, I get an r^2 against UZR/DRS as in the 0.6s, which is damn good considering how much worse the data is. While ZiPS is never going to be a scout obviously, I spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to capture some of the elements as stats *with* predictive value.
Really cool stuff. Thanks for the great reply Dan!
Thanks Dan! I’m interested in how ZIPS views JJ Bleday- the huge college stats weren’t enough to land him in the top 100?
The translations were quite as high as the other two and his tiny minor league cameo wasn’t that good.
In truth, the missing season probably makes any prospect list less accurate than usual!
I’m pretty sure Austin Hays has exhausted his rookie eligibility so I’m surprised to see him here.
Thanks! That’s my mistake then.
Sorry but it’s tough for me to take a list seriously that has Jeff Bain (who was not even mentioned in Longenhagen’s Diamondbacks prospect list last year) as a top 50 prospect.
This would be a better comment to make in five years!
80 of the ZiPS list from 2014 have positive WAR in the majors , including 44 of the top 50. And there are a *lot* of guys that ZiPS liked a ton more than others did.
ZiPS may be wrong about Jeff Bain! Like all prospect watchers, I can find some huge flops in there (hi, Arismendy Alcantara). But we don’t know yet. Only BA has beaten out ZiPS for 2014 in career WAR for the top 100 (though I didn’t have BP at the time, so they could have as well).
I appreciate the effort, don’t get me wrong. I like ZiPS more than the other projections on this site. I hope at some point you will be able to dive in on some of the unknown guys on here.
Love things like this list, thanks for your work Dan.
I do suspect ZiPS is probably high (and wrong) on Bain, the only person on this list who was Rule 5 eligible and not selected this winter (Whitlock was also made available but was drafted) – but, if true, that’s ok! – formula driven work can result in that kind of outcome from time to time. He’s been solid in the minors, apart from some serious longball issues in 2019 (23 in 120.2) but profiles to struggle at higher levels absent adding velocity. (I also think other sources may be low on this guy – he “knows how to pitch”.)
I always tell people the aphorism “All models are wrong, but some are useful.” I think ZiPS is useful (but I’m biased). The only way you’ll get a model that never projects anything strange is to put your thumb on the scale if *you* see something strange.
And some of the things I agreed with ZiPS on ended up looking strange with the benefit of hindsight. And some of the ZiPS limbs — like projecting Bieber as the 14th most valuable pitcher, just behind Kershaw, going into 2019 — end up looking less so.
I am baffled by Cody Morris making it so high. His stats don’t seem that special for a 22.5 year old in A-ball
Can’t wait to see Wander Franco develop into a star for whatever team Tampa trades him to.
He’ll almost certainly be traded before he reaches free agency but it seems like there’s a really good chance he has some star level seasons with Tampa before they trade him.
Deep cut but does ZiPS like Aaron Antonini? He was very old for the level but destroyed rookie ball as a LHH catcher in 2019.
How do you see Zips predicted career WAR?
Hi Dan,
(If you notice this) Can you comment on Keibert Ruiz’s projection. His 2019 seemed a little lackluster vs other top 100 prospects, plus catchers seem to have higher variance in projections.
What does ZIPs like about him vs the other catching prospects?
Loved seeing that much plate discipline from a very young catcher.
Ah ha. The magical conjunction of age and past performance!
I promise I’m going to go to the glossary right now to look for this question, but if you see this and choose to respond:
In effect, is ZIPs generally equally accurate regardless of primary position (for position players).
Thanks for your time.
I wish it didn’t because that kind of calibration would be easy to fix and improve!
Sadly, the low-hanging fruit is long gone at this point.
Ruiz appeared to be the outlier on this list. Will Smith is the Dodgers catcher for several years to come so for Ruiz to succeed it will almost certainly have to come with a different team.
Isn’t this just scouting the stat line + math?
Yeah but you have to be really, really, really, really good at math.
Is this a ranking of future 50 percentile total career WAR?
Yup
Does the ZIPS projection take into account A-/A-/A+ at bats? I’m guessing it must considering Franco’s placement.
Surprised to see the absence of guys like Kristian Robinson (or all the Diamondbacks OFs). I’m guessing that unless you are significantly under the average for that league, that ZIPS doesn’t care as much for performances at the lower leagues.
This list seems to find a lot of the guys who have been able to perform atleast at a AA level where I’m guessing the expected value of career WAR projections for the MLB has much lesser chances of busting.
In short, I’d be interested to hear some of the weighting that ZIPS puts on each level of the minors.
Great job as always.
I’m sure you’ve posted this somewhere, but where are the 3 year ZIPS projections/when are they being released? Thanks again!
Going in the next update; had to finish ZiPS Top 100 first!
Austin Martin is ranked ahead of Alejandro Kirk? Does that mean he’s projected to be worth 2+ WAR without having playing in the minors at all?? Cause that is just wack.
You mention “rest of career WAR” in the post. Is that available somewhere?
interesting to see how Cleveland has 5 guys on this list, who are “unranked”. I have to believe this means they use a system very similar to ZIPs in their own internal evaluations.
I think Longenhagen has also indicated this in some of his chats, that they’re heavily model-based for prospecting and that’s why their guys are looked at favorably by projections like this
This is true, but keep in mind that a lot of teams rely heavily on their models–it’s just that Cleveland’s models look very similar to what ZiPs and KATOH like. The Mariners are also a model-heavy team at draft time but they keep picking college pitchers. The Brewers are too, and their model seems much more agnostic about what “types” of players it likes.
Yeah I noticed a similar thing with Boston who have 3 guys on this list who are unranked by Eric.
Most notably, two of them have been acquired by Bloom (Seabold, Whitlock) and they also went way against industry consensus in the draft when they took Yorke.
Can already see the Bloom/Tampa influence there
Back before some team paid Chris Mitchell to stop publishing KATOH (and well before he became a Twins employee) Cleveland also regularly had guys on those lists, too. They are well known to love guys with certain profiles–young for level is the key, with big power and/or precocious contact ability on the position player side, with a big bonus if they play shortstop. On the pitching side, they like younger guys who are tall with big fastballs and spin rates (at least in the beginning), or guys of any height with advanced command for their age.
If you want to get a good sense of what prep players they’re looking at, you could probably set a filter to only see prospects who are 18.4 or less at the draft. Baez, Ford, Leto, and Schrier on the position player side; Hartle, Gray, Braden Montgomery on the pitching side.
No Mets here. Can you tell us what zips thinks of the guys ranked by Eric?
I like to see performance rewarded and three players who performed very well in 2020, my choice for superstardom Ian Anderson, KeBryan Hayes and Sixto Sanchez were recognized for that, much more so than on other lists, even if Arozarena seems a little low. Since I believe that performance counts, there is a player who I will be following closely to see if his lofty ranking is a mirage because he has not shown much yet. This list is the first one I have seen that has dropped Royce Lewis to where his performance has indicated he belongs and I am getting a strong whiff, pun intended, of J.P. Crawford.
Lewis at this age still has a puncher’s chance of topping out as a “whiffier” Hanley Ramirez, but his minor-league performance has tracked even below Crawford’s at this point so I see where his 50th percentile outcome would leave him barely in the top 100. Eric’s graph of Future Values for Lewis gave him about a 25% chance of being a 70+ future value player (higher than KeBryan Hayes), but also about a 25% chance of being a total bust (much higher than Hayes.)
Does ZiPS take into account difficulty of opponents at all in college stats? Nick Gonzales jumped a bunch and playing for New Mexico State inflating his stats may be the reason.
Hi Dan, could you comment on Liberatore’s projection? I was personally high on Arozarena when he was in the Cards system, and it hurt me to see him go, but I was glad to see that we potentially got a great pitching prospect out of it. But now it seems both Eric and you think of him as a fringe or back-end top 100 prospect. It pains (and gladdens!) me to see Arozarena so high up on both lists, so I’m just curious about what ZiPS thinks about Liberatore.
Maybe it’s not available to other people, but do you estimate how much error/variance is in each player’s projections?
My background is in physics, so I tend to think that all data should be presented with error bars. Some of the projections should have a much larger variance (due to both the data size and you can also quantify the quality of data to differentiate between college and different levels of pro as well as more recent data to past data) than others. I do think it’s tough to get useful actual error bars (unless you’re comparing past projections to real results), but I just think some loose rating system of the different projections would be useful.
Where is Ivan Herrera who was 65 for Eric?
I am curious about the same thing. It seems like several lists are finally giving Herrera his due this year, even leapfrogging Ruiz and Amaya in several cases. This despite only Ruiz being the only to get any MLB time (only 8 PAs). To me this just confirms my suspicion that he was severely underrated/represented on last year’s lists.
My guess is with ZIPS, there is a significant degree more certainty with Ruiz and Amaya because they are older and have larger sample sizes at higher levels, even if Herrera has performed similar/better than each of them at the same age/level.
Dan, since you mentioned 2014, this has LONG been a hope/request for me, but would you be willing to share a previous projection of ZiPS vs. what actually occurred?
Small minor thing: the “other” Julio Rodriguez is linked, not the Sea RF. Not a complaint, just thought you might want to know. Thanks again for all of the work!
Yowzers with Hayes. I would of thought of the ones he was projected over that it would be Devers, not Jram still ahead. But still, wow.
Dan, is there any way we can get the offensive/defensive breakdown that ZIPS has on Cristian Pache? I’m sort of surprised that he’s not higher in the same range as KeBryan Hayes, and wondering if ZIPS is underplaying his defense, or whether KeBryan Hayes is getting more credit for his offense given his 2020 MLB performance.
List seems to push up pitchers in comparison, right? See a lot of guys who are “unranked” who come in on the zips list.
I have to admit to complete confusion over how these projection systems work. As a Red Sox fan I naturally take great interest in what others think, even computer projections, but I continue to be amazed at what is presented. In this case, as has been the case during this off-season, it concerns the complete lack of recognition of the 3 exceptional starts that Tanner Houck put together last season. During my perusing of the list I see Conner Seabold, Garrett Whitlock and Bryan Mata, none of whom has ever thrown a pitch in the major leagues on the list, but nothing about a pitcher whose line goes 3/3/3-0/17/6/1/9/21. I know the computer didn’t actually see the stuff he was throwing past everyone he faced but, I ask seriously, did anyone actually see it. It seems unlikely because nobody who did could ignore the awful swings that top hitters like Acuna, D’Arnaud or Ozuna were taking. I may very well be way off base with this but it does seem reasonable that someone with a track record of success, even if it is a small one, should be placed above a Rule 5 draft pick who hasn’t pitched since having TJ surgery in 2019.
In Houck’s case, his minor league translations aren’t very inspiring.
It’s the Shane Greene rule or maybe I should call it the Vaughn Eshelman rule. Performance in the majors doesn’t simply wipe out the previous history. MLB performance is a *little* more predictive. If it *did* wipe out the previous history, then that would have been a simple task to find in the history.
Dan, your remembering Vaughn Eshelman, impresses me. I remember those first 2 starts against the Yankees and Tigers, but Eshelman was a Rule 5 player who had already been dumped by the Orioles who had a couple of flukes and quickly was bashed around. That may happen to Houck as well but, as late as 2020, another publication, while acknowledging that he only threw two pitches, called them a plus/plus two pitch mix. Real stiffs don’t strike out 10 Braves in 6 innings. A stiff doesn’t make Acuna(with high heat), Ozuna and D’Arnaud(nasty cross-fire sliders) look as bad as they did against him in his last start in 2020. What has Garrett Whitlock done that hints that he could exceed Houck’s performances? All I have been saying is that his performance should rank him ahead of these other borderline prospects.
“A stiff doesn’t make Acuna(with high heat), Ozuna and D’Arnaud(nasty cross-fire sliders) look as bad as they did against him in his last start in 2020”
If you want to play that game, here’s this:
“A stud doesn’t put up a 5.30 FIP against AAA competition or a 4.31 FIP against A+ competition. A stud also doesn’t walk nearly 5 batters per 9 innings”
Houck’s 3 starts might have bee fluky. Or maybe he did turn a corner. We’ll see. Right now though, no one should weigh 17 MLB innings more than 250 MiLB innings
A guy like Hunter Greene. Missing because he was never thought of highly – or because injury out of the spotlight just means less attention – or because injury actually reduces the potential ceiling?
I always wonder about how that pitching prospect risk really plays into ranking/projection systems.
Hunter Greene is clearly someone who has been, and still is, highly thought of. Regardless, I don’t think projection systems factor in reputation or notoriety.
No Nationals at all!!!!! big frown
I guess unless we draft a once in a lifetime talent our draft picks do not seem to work out for us.
zero Mets, one Philly, Two Braves, and 6 Marlins. I guess this division is upending in a few years.
5 braves, not 2
No Triston McKenzie?
Interesting to see the order in which the two Twins catchers are ranked–Rortvedt above Jeffers. It seems Jeffers out-performed Rortvedt at every level in the minors (and performed well in his 2020 MLB debut). What explains ZiPS’ preference for Rortvedt?
Andrés Giménez, Clev. Is he still considered rookie eligible? Curious, where would he slot on this list?
love this modelling look at prospects as usual: Is the difference between Vaughn & Torkelson’s projections due to nothing more than Vaughn’s 200ish PAs in A-ball, i.e. would Torkelson’s projections be essentially identical if he had put up merely “good” stats if the minors had happened last year? They seem so similar to me otherwise. Thanks!
Dan – longtime fan of your work. If Luis Robert and Alex Bohm were eligible for this list, where would they have placed?
What’s the word on Casey Mize? You and ZiPS have him much lower than every other ranking of prospects. Is he just not going to be good this year, is it injury worries, or will he always be the hyped prospect that couldn’t translate?
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Kohei Arihara?