2021 ZiPS Projections: Toronto Blue Jays

After having typically appeared in the hallowed pages of Baseball Think Factory, Dan Szymborski’s ZiPS projections have now been released at FanGraphs for nine years. The exercise continues this offseason. Below are the projections for the Toronto Blue Jays.

Batters

The Jays offense did what it needed to in 2020, with the team doing an excellent job filling some of the holes in the lineup, especially in the outfield. I was admittedly skeptical of the motley crew of players who aren’t related to former big leaguers, but most of the personnel decisions worked out solidly for the organization. Teoscar Hernández finished in the top 10 in exit velocity; ZiPS now has him projected for a slugging percentage over .500 in 2021, enough to make him a legitimate starter rather than an interesting, one-dimensional bat. This is also the least skeptical ZiPS has been of Lourdes Gurriel Jr..

But while the outfield now looks like a decent group, the trickiest thing is still Randal Grichuk in center. I appreciate the Jays’ willingness to get creative and use a player who doesn’t look like a traditional fit at the position, but Grichuk still isn’t particularly good and his short-season 2020 stats were more good than great. After Grichuk, the team’s center field options aren’t all that appealing and I’d be inclined to improve the big league club’s depth at the position.

There’s a bit of disagreement between ZiPS and Steamer about Vladimir Guerrero Jr. ZiPS is more worried about Vladito than Steamer is (conversely, ZiPS likes Bo Bichette better than Steamer does). I’m not actually sure which projection system I’m closer to personally. Guerrero’s raw stats in the majors haven’t been mind-blowing by any stretch of the imagination, but he also doesn’t turn 22 until just before the start of the season. If you translated his actual major league performances to Double-A in 2019 and Triple-A in 2020, perfectly reasonable levels for his age, I doubt anyone would be disappointed. Still, his ceiling has to be slightly lower now, his conditioning is meh, and he has quickly moved the wrong way on the defensive spectrum.

That being said, I’m probably exaggerating the weakness of his ZiPS projection. ZiPS continues to expect him to be fine, it’s just not sure when; it still projects his average career at 50 WAR, only three less than it did before last season. While I haven’t run everyone yet, that would still put him in the top 15 for rest-of-career projections.

Pitchers

Going into the season, I was really concerned about how well the Blue Jays would patch their pitching together after Hyun Jin Ryu. Those worries turned out to be warranted, as apart from Ryu and the six starts the team got from Taijuan Walker, the rotation’s performance was pretty bleak. But it wasn’t so bleak that it kept the team from making the greatly expanded playoffs, finishing above .500. I’m actually more positive about the team’s hurlers this time around. Ryu pitched as well in the AL East as the projections hoped, so there’s much less worry there and ZiPS remains a fan of Robbie Ray. Both Ross Stripling and Tanner Roark project to have better seasons than their 2020 as well.

ZiPS is really into Nate Pearson for 2021 (another disagreement with Steamer). Only one other pitcher has gotten a comp to Jim Palmer at any stage of his career: Mike Soroka. I think the Jays would be quite happy if Pearson turned out to be as solid as Soroka was, pre-injury of course. The larger question is how durable Pearson will be, though 2020 didn’t provide much of a good answer.

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I really hope the Jays are aggressive in adding to the bullpen this winter. Outside of Rafael Dolis and Jordan Romano, there’s just not a whole lot of zazz, zork, kapowza, or anything else that puts mazuma in the bank. This is a team that really could have justified claiming Brad Hand (not that there wasn’t company on that score). Average relievers tend to have an ERA+ of 108 or so, though that figure was lower in 2020; only the two relievers named above project to clear that mark. Toronto’s a team on the edge of the playoff race in a tough division and every win added is a high-leverage one.

One pedantic note for 2021: For the WAR graphic, I’m using FanGraphs’ depth charts playing time, not the playing time ZiPS spits out, so there will be occasional differences in WAR totals.

Ballpark graphic courtesy Eephus League. Depth charts constructed by way of those listed here.

Batters – Standard
Player B Age PO PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS
Bo Bichette R 23 SS 545 504 77 144 33 6 23 95 37 94 27 8
Cavan Biggio L 26 2B 609 514 84 118 26 3 22 75 85 169 14 3
Vladimir Guerrero Jr. R 22 1B 601 544 77 150 33 5 26 98 50 95 2 1
Teoscar Hernandez R 28 DH 539 489 76 121 24 3 35 90 44 174 11 5
Alejandro Kirk R 22 C 386 347 47 90 24 2 10 47 34 56 1 0
Danny Jansen R 26 C 417 361 52 83 17 1 17 60 42 79 1 0
Travis Shaw L 31 3B 485 424 56 97 20 0 22 64 55 128 3 1
Lourdes Gurriel Jr. R 27 LF 508 474 64 129 27 1 25 79 25 116 6 4
Rowdy Tellez L 26 1B 497 448 67 117 26 0 27 84 39 114 2 3
Randal Grichuk R 29 CF 563 523 76 130 29 3 31 90 33 146 3 2
Jonathan Villar B 30 3B 586 529 66 130 19 2 16 60 50 155 39 11
Breyvic Valera B 29 2B 483 436 55 117 18 4 9 45 38 51 8 8
Derek Fisher L 27 LF 398 347 54 79 15 3 18 54 45 128 10 6
Jonathan Davis R 29 CF 454 398 50 85 18 3 11 45 36 122 14 4
Joe Panik L 30 2B 464 412 50 104 20 2 7 38 44 55 3 1
Riley Adams R 25 C 421 376 42 77 16 1 10 38 35 144 3 1
Santiago Espinal R 26 2B 470 434 50 105 19 2 7 40 27 88 8 6
Kevin Smith R 24 SS 490 459 51 95 20 2 20 62 23 168 12 5
Reese McGuire L 26 C 351 316 35 70 13 2 10 33 22 73 3 1
Brandon Drury R 28 3B 389 358 36 80 19 1 10 39 25 94 1 1
Josh Palacios L 25 CF 486 440 49 94 18 3 10 44 39 141 11 7
Caleb Joseph R 35 C 266 249 29 53 11 1 7 25 12 71 0 0
Nick Podkul R 24 3B 392 348 39 70 15 2 7 32 34 89 7 3
Ryan Noda L 25 1B 485 412 55 76 19 1 15 55 63 189 8 3
Forrest Wall L 25 CF 544 494 59 107 22 4 12 49 44 163 16 9
Samad Taylor R 22 2B 491 437 50 82 22 4 13 49 42 162 24 16
Chavez Young B 23 CF 519 479 50 100 19 4 10 42 32 143 23 15
Christopher Bec R 25 C 267 236 24 45 9 1 4 21 26 74 15 3
Cullen Large B 25 3B 435 395 39 84 19 3 5 31 29 138 4 2
Brock Lundquist L 25 LF 453 409 45 82 17 2 12 46 34 145 5 4
Mac James R 28 C 272 248 24 51 6 0 3 17 20 61 1 3
Logan Warmoth R 25 2B 418 380 34 70 14 3 3 24 27 142 10 2
Gabriel Guerrero R 27 RF 485 462 49 108 19 3 14 53 18 134 4 5

Batters – Advanced
Player BA OBP SLG OPS+ ISO BABIP RC/27 Def WAR No. 1 Comp
Bo Bichette .286 .334 .512 125 .226 .313 6.7 1 4.0 Lou Boudreau
Cavan Biggio .230 .342 .420 106 .191 .297 5.2 5 3.2 Lou Whitaker
Vladimir Guerrero Jr. .276 .341 .498 124 .222 .293 6.3 2 2.8 Paul Konerko
Teoscar Hernandez .247 .312 .524 121 .276 .307 5.9 0 2.1 Bob Allison
Alejandro Kirk .259 .329 .427 104 .167 .285 5.1 1 1.8 Mike Sweeney
Danny Jansen .230 .322 .424 101 .194 .249 4.8 0 1.8 Jamie Nelson
Travis Shaw .229 .320 .432 102 .203 .274 4.9 2 1.8 Hank Thompson
Lourdes Gurriel Jr. .272 .311 .492 113 .219 .312 5.6 1 1.8 Rico Carty
Rowdy Tellez .261 .324 .500 119 .239 .293 5.8 1 1.7 Mario Valdez
Randal Grichuk .249 .297 .493 109 .245 .286 5.2 -8 1.5 Chet Lemon
Jonathan Villar .246 .312 .380 87 .134 .318 4.6 1 1.4 Len Randle
Breyvic Valera .268 .328 .390 95 .122 .287 4.5 1 1.2 Quilvio Veras
Derek Fisher .228 .320 .444 105 .216 .303 4.9 2 1.1 Sandy Amoros
Jonathan Davis .214 .299 .357 78 .143 .279 3.8 3 0.7 Lance Blankenship
Joe Panik .252 .326 .362 87 .109 .277 4.3 -2 0.6 Dan Rohn
Riley Adams .205 .285 .332 68 .128 .302 3.2 5 0.6 Lou Marson
Santiago Espinal .242 .288 .343 71 .101 .289 3.4 7 0.4 Charlie Montoyo
Kevin Smith .207 .249 .390 70 .183 .277 3.4 4 0.4 Dick Schofield
Reese McGuire .222 .276 .370 74 .149 .258 3.6 1 0.3 Scott Hatteberg
Brandon Drury .223 .278 .366 73 .142 .276 3.5 1 0.0 Paul Schaal
Josh Palacios .214 .282 .336 68 .123 .291 3.2 2 -0.2 Jim Gosger
Caleb Joseph .213 .257 .349 63 .137 .269 3.1 -1 -0.2 Rick Cerone
Nick Podkul .201 .284 .316 63 .115 .250 3.1 0 -0.4 Richard Slavik
Ryan Noda .184 .300 .345 75 .160 .293 3.5 1 -0.5 Doug Snyder
Forrest Wall .217 .285 .350 72 .134 .298 3.4 -3 -0.5 Rich Becker
Samad Taylor .188 .262 .346 64 .158 .263 2.8 1 -0.7 Ralph Milliard
Chavez Young .209 .263 .328 59 .119 .276 2.8 3 -0.8 Stan Javier
Christopher Bec .191 .271 .288 53 .097 .259 3.0 -7 -1.0 Sean McCraw
Cullen Large .213 .276 .314 60 .101 .313 3.0 -2 -1.0 Wayne Garrett
Brock Lundquist .200 .272 .340 65 .139 .278 3.0 1 -1.1 Brian Finley
Mac James .206 .265 .266 46 .060 .261 2.2 -3 -1.1 Chris Tremie
Logan Warmoth .184 .248 .261 39 .076 .285 2.3 3 -1.4 James Guerrero
Gabriel Guerrero .234 .262 .379 71 .145 .299 3.4 -6 -1.7 Shane Mack

Pitchers – Standard
Player T Age W L ERA G GS IP H ER HR BB SO FIP
Hyun-jin Ryu L 34 10 6 3.58 25 24 138.3 133 55 19 28 133 3.71
Robbie Ray L 29 10 8 4.15 30 29 151.7 124 70 24 80 208 4.18
Nate Pearson R 24 6 4 4.00 24 24 99.0 92 44 14 33 107 4.01
Taijuan Walker R 28 7 5 4.41 20 20 100.0 101 49 15 36 86 4.67
Trent Thornton R 27 7 6 4.62 24 22 117.0 120 60 18 36 109 4.37
Ross Stripling R 31 6 5 4.38 32 16 98.7 100 48 17 26 98 4.25
Simeon Woods Richardson R 20 12 11 4.90 24 24 141.3 146 77 21 58 117 4.81
Tanner Roark R 34 8 8 4.93 26 25 133.3 140 73 24 44 121 4.88
Chase Anderson R 33 6 5 4.85 26 23 115.0 113 62 23 40 107 5.12
Ryan Borucki L 27 7 6 4.77 30 17 103.7 105 55 15 42 90 4.66
Jacob Waguespack R 27 6 6 4.81 29 17 103.0 105 55 14 47 89 4.76
Rafael Dolis R 33 5 3 3.51 54 0 51.3 44 20 5 22 56 3.73
Ken Giles R 30 3 1 3.18 47 0 45.3 36 16 6 14 63 3.11
Shun Yamaguchi R 33 7 7 5.00 27 16 113.3 108 63 20 54 125 4.86
Anthony Kay L 26 8 8 5.09 29 20 115.0 115 65 17 60 108 4.95
Sean Reid-Foley R 25 7 7 5.05 28 22 112.3 106 63 17 70 117 5.07
Thomas Hatch R 26 8 8 5.14 31 21 112.0 117 64 17 51 97 4.95
Joey Murray R 24 9 10 5.23 28 25 125.7 128 73 22 59 114 5.24
Patrick Murphy R 26 5 5 4.91 20 17 88.0 91 48 11 39 69 4.74
Matt Shoemaker R 34 3 3 4.71 11 11 57.3 55 30 11 19 55 4.85
A.J. Cole R 29 5 5 4.81 42 10 86.0 87 46 15 34 86 4.74
Julian Merryweather R 29 4 4 5.06 18 15 74.7 80 42 13 26 64 4.93
Jordan Romano R 28 3 2 4.07 49 0 48.7 43 22 8 18 57 4.27
Graham Spraker R 26 5 5 5.19 23 16 93.7 106 54 14 33 58 5.13
Anthony Bass R 33 4 3 4.37 49 2 55.7 54 27 7 19 49 4.19
Curtis Taylor R 25 4 3 4.50 33 3 56.0 54 28 8 25 55 4.57
Yennsy Diaz R 24 9 10 5.51 26 24 129.0 142 79 21 61 92 5.45
Jake Fishman L 26 1 0 4.38 44 0 61.7 62 30 9 18 56 4.28
Kirby Snead L 26 6 4 4.40 51 0 61.3 58 30 6 31 56 4.29
Sam Gaviglio R 31 3 2 4.43 46 0 63.0 63 31 9 18 54 4.32
Brad Wilson R 24 4 3 4.45 42 0 54.7 53 27 7 22 53 4.28
Ty Tice R 24 4 4 4.48 50 0 60.3 57 30 7 34 59 4.57
Justin Dillon R 27 6 7 5.51 23 17 99.7 114 61 18 34 66 5.41
T.J. Zeuch R 25 5 6 5.64 19 17 97.3 111 61 17 37 58 5.52
Conor Fisk R 29 4 5 5.27 41 8 82.0 89 48 15 28 65 5.18
Connor Overton R 27 1 1 5.06 16 1 32.0 33 18 4 15 26 4.68
Hector Perez R 25 4 5 5.75 21 18 87.7 91 56 13 64 79 5.67
Dany Jiménez R 27 4 4 4.89 35 0 46.0 43 25 8 24 54 4.85
Zach Jackson R 26 4 4 4.93 48 0 65.7 63 36 9 36 64 4.79
Elvis Luciano R 21 2 3 5.60 24 3 45.0 47 28 7 29 37 5.76
Ryan Dull R 31 3 3 5.20 47 0 55.3 57 32 12 18 59 4.95
Zach Logue L 25 5 7 6.05 22 20 105.7 124 71 23 41 73 5.96
Bryan Baker R 26 4 5 5.79 49 0 51.3 49 33 9 42 60 5.75
Willy Ortiz R 25 3 5 6.63 17 8 58.3 68 43 13 34 43 6.56
Mike Ellenbest R 26 3 6 7.23 25 12 74.7 92 60 18 49 47 7.22

Pitchers – Advanced
Player K/9 BB/9 HR/9 BB% K% BABIP ERA+ ERA- WAR No. 1 Comp
Hyun-jin Ryu 8.7 1.8 1.2 4.9% 23.4% .295 126 80 3.1 Herb Pennock
Robbie Ray 12.3 4.7 1.4 12.2% 31.7% .295 108 92 2.5 Al Leiter
Nate Pearson 9.7 3.0 1.3 7.8% 25.4% .298 112 89 1.8 Jim Palmer
Taijuan Walker 7.7 3.2 1.4 8.3% 19.7% .294 102 98 1.4 Bob Porterfield
Trent Thornton 8.4 2.8 1.4 7.1% 21.6% .304 97 103 1.4 Lary Sorensen
Ross Stripling 8.9 2.4 1.6 6.3% 23.6% .303 103 97 1.2 Elmer Dessens
Simeon Woods Richardson 7.5 3.7 1.3 9.3% 18.8% .296 92 109 1.2 Mike Mills
Tanner Roark 8.2 3.0 1.6 7.5% 20.8% .301 91 110 1.1 Bill Lee
Chase Anderson 8.4 3.1 1.8 8.1% 21.6% .281 93 108 1.0 Armando Reynoso
Ryan Borucki 7.8 3.6 1.3 9.3% 19.8% .297 94 106 1.0 Andy Hassler
Jacob Waguespack 7.8 4.1 1.2 10.2% 19.3% .299 94 107 0.9 Don Stanhouse
Rafael Dolis 9.8 3.9 0.9 10.0% 25.5% .291 128 78 0.8 Jim Hughes
Ken Giles 12.5 2.8 1.2 7.6% 34.1% .297 142 71 0.8 Greg McMichael
Shun Yamaguchi 9.9 4.3 1.6 10.8% 25.0% .297 90 111 0.8 Bobby Munoz
Anthony Kay 8.5 4.7 1.3 11.6% 20.8% .300 88 113 0.8 Bill Wight
Sean Reid-Foley 9.4 5.6 1.4 13.7% 22.9% .295 89 112 0.7 Dick Ruthven
Thomas Hatch 7.8 4.1 1.4 10.2% 19.3% .302 87 114 0.7 Sean White
Joey Murray 8.2 4.2 1.6 10.5% 20.2% .294 86 116 0.6 Robert Averette
Patrick Murphy 7.1 4.0 1.1 9.9% 17.6% .299 92 109 0.6 Steve Arlin
Matt Shoemaker 8.6 3.0 1.7 7.8% 22.5% .280 95 105 0.6 Mark Portugal
A.J. Cole 9.0 3.6 1.6 9.0% 22.9% .303 93 107 0.6 Rick Lysander
Julian Merryweather 7.7 3.1 1.6 7.9% 19.5% .302 89 113 0.6 Kyle Snyder
Jordan Romano 10.5 3.3 1.5 8.7% 27.5% .289 111 90 0.5 Mike Perez
Graham Spraker 5.6 3.2 1.3 7.9% 13.9% .300 87 115 0.5 Ed Linke
Anthony Bass 7.9 3.1 1.1 8.0% 20.6% .292 103 97 0.4 Tom Timmermann
Curtis Taylor 8.8 4.0 1.3 10.2% 22.4% .297 100 100 0.4 Ray Herbert
Yennsy Diaz 6.4 4.3 1.5 10.4% 15.7% .298 82 123 0.3 Jake Dittler
Jake Fishman 8.2 2.6 1.3 6.8% 21.2% .298 103 97 0.3 Steve Sharts
Kirby Snead 8.2 4.5 0.9 11.4% 20.6% .295 102 98 0.2 Mike Cosgrove
Sam Gaviglio 7.7 2.6 1.3 6.7% 20.1% .293 102 99 0.2 Ron Taylor
Brad Wilson 8.7 3.6 1.2 9.2% 22.3% .301 101 99 0.2 Ray Herbert
Ty Tice 8.8 5.1 1.0 12.5% 21.8% .298 100 100 0.2 Sam Nahem
Justin Dillon 6.0 3.1 1.6 7.6% 14.8% .299 82 123 0.2 Steve Lemke
T.J. Zeuch 5.4 3.4 1.6 8.5% 13.3% .294 80 125 0.1 Mark Cahill
Conor Fisk 7.1 3.1 1.6 7.7% 18.0% .297 85 117 0.1 Bill Fischer
Connor Overton 7.3 4.2 1.1 10.5% 18.2% .299 89 113 0.0 Bill Zuber
Hector Perez 8.1 6.6 1.3 15.3% 18.9% .305 78 128 0.0 Rich Dorman
Dany Jiménez 10.6 4.7 1.6 11.7% 26.3% .302 92 109 -0.1 Paul Schneider
Zach Jackson 8.8 4.9 1.2 12.2% 21.8% .297 91 110 -0.1 Joe Hudson
Elvis Luciano 7.4 5.8 1.4 13.7% 17.5% .296 80 125 -0.2 Cuddles Marshall
Ryan Dull 9.6 2.9 2.0 7.5% 24.7% .304 86 116 -0.3 Chuck Crim
Zach Logue 6.2 3.5 2.0 8.5% 15.2% .300 74 135 -0.4 Jason Cromer
Bryan Baker 10.5 7.4 1.6 17.1% 24.5% .305 78 129 -0.6 Jeff Smith
Willy Ortiz 6.6 5.2 2.0 12.3% 15.5% .301 68 148 -0.6 Julian Leyva
Mike Ellenbest 5.7 5.9 2.2 13.5% 12.9% .302 62 161 -1.3 Dallas Trahern

Players are listed with their most recent teams wherever possible. This includes players who are unsigned, players who will miss 2021 due to injury, and players who were released in 2020. So yes, if you see Joe Schmoe, who quit baseball back in August to form a Finnish industrial death metal fourth-wave ska J-pop band, he’s still listed here intentionally.

Both hitters and pitchers are ranked by projected zWAR, which is to say, WAR values as calculated by me, Dan Szymborski, whose surname is spelled with a z. WAR values might differ slightly from those which appear in the full release of ZiPS. Finally, I will advise anyone against — and might karate chop anyone guilty of — merely adding up WAR totals on a depth chart to produce projected team WAR. ZiPS is assuming that the designated hitter will continue in force in 2021; if it does not, there will be widespread minor adjustments across the board come April.

ZiPS is agnostic about future playing time by design. For more information about ZiPS, please refer to this article, or get angry at Dan on Twitter or something.





Dan Szymborski is a senior writer for FanGraphs and the developer of the ZiPS projection system. He was a writer for ESPN.com from 2010-2018, a regular guest on a number of radio shows and podcasts, and a voting BBWAA member. He also maintains a terrible Twitter account at @DSzymborski.

53 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Cave Dameron
5 years ago

What is Vlad Jr.’s projected weight?

MentholMember since 2018
5 years ago
Reply to  Cave Dameron

He’s heavy, but his xWEIGHT indicates that was mostly a product of small sample size and regression is imminent.

SucramRenrutMember since 2017
5 years ago
Reply to  Cave Dameron

-30 optimistically

bohknowsbmore
5 years ago
Reply to  Cave Dameron

The weight and conditioning concerns definitely cut against some of the optimism granted due to youth. That this is already a problem suggest a counterpoint to statements like this:

“ Guerrero’s raw stats in the majors haven’t been mind-blowing by any stretch of the imagination, but he also doesn’t turn 22 until just before the start of the season.”

dwigt2
5 years ago
Reply to  bohknowsbmore

He has lost a lot of weight this offseason, allegedly. He still looks overweight though, so let’s see what he’s done by spring.

CoryMC
5 years ago

I understand the timing of the articles (lots of effort to run the numbers, analyze the results, then write up every team) but it always seems weird how irrelevant they are once free agency actually kicks off. The Blue Jays have talked a big game of being major players this offseason and if they actually are true to their word (and they were last year) then the roster could look completely different.

Smiling PolitelyMember since 2018
5 years ago
Reply to  CoryMC

I find them helpful in 1) recapping a team’s season (I generally don’t keep up on all squads, so it was fun to find out that the non-famous Jays had interesting seasons!), 2) projecting needs (adding Mazuma to the Bank, for example) to consider FA/trade scenarios, and 3) reflecting back during spring training/early next season to see how things went (especially since I’m pretty sure FG does a whole spring training preview, too, which follows up)

hombremomento
5 years ago

You think its possible the Jays experiment with Cavan in center? Good power, speed, and walks along with at least decent defense (I would assume it as much by his versatility) could play well into the outfield if they wish to get a different second baseman

BenZobrist4MVP
5 years ago
Reply to  hombremomento

Well, his dad moved from 2nd to center toward the end of his career.

carterMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  BenZobrist4MVP

After he had moved from catcher to 2nd.

HughesMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  carter

Based on these data points, my projection suggests his dad then moved to season tickets beyond the CF wall.

Smiling PolitelyMember since 2018
5 years ago
Reply to  hombremomento

I want him to stay with LA, but if TOR signed Hernandez to play 2B/everywhere, they could experiment with Biggio in CF (or put Hernandez there)

hombremomento
5 years ago

I would think its more likely they resign Villar, as I would think they want an effective base stealer considering they don’t have much speed on the field, however they do have a formidable offense and defense

dwigt2
5 years ago
Reply to  hombremomento

I doubt they sign Villar after his dugout bailout and subsequent benching.

TheGarrettCooperFanClub
5 years ago
Reply to  hombremomento

They did say they were going to try this out at one point didn’t they?

Baller McCheeseMember since 2016
5 years ago

Out of the four teams that you’ve done ZIPS projections for so far, this is the third team that has had Lou Boudreau as the no. 1 shortstop comp. Who would’ve have thought that 80 years after his prime Old Shufflefoot would still be such an influence on the game of baseball today.

Smiling PolitelyMember since 2018
5 years ago

Can I get a FIP projection on Zork vs Kapowza?

The Ancient Mariner
5 years ago

Oh, the Jays definitely need Zork in their bullpen. I can see the scoreboard now: “Aaron Judge has been eaten by a grue.”

GeorgeMember since 2016
5 years ago

Unfortunately for Tanner Roark, Warren Zevon isn’t around to write a song about him.

shach1
5 years ago

Am I crazy for thinking that Gurriel JR will hit 295 with 35 home runs, 100 rbi and 100 runs scored next year? I believe in him that much. What does everyone here think about that?

SucramRenrutMember since 2017
5 years ago
Reply to  shach1

Yes. You’re not crazy for being optimistic, but those numbers would probably require 650 ABs and that’s always asking a lot out of the player and the rest of the line-up. He would probably have to hit 2nd or 3rd all year and not spend any time on the DL.

shach1
5 years ago
Reply to  SucramRenrut

Het hit 20 homers in 84 games 2 years ago

Travis LMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  shach1

And you’re comfortable taking that best case partial season projection and take it out to a full season?

SucramRenrutMember since 2017
5 years ago
Reply to  shach1

Yeah but even if you double that stat line its 686 ABs 40/102/100 and proves my point, even as a Lourdes-lover myself. Only 15 players in the league got more than 686 Plate Appearances in 2019 FWIW.

TribeToTheEndMember since 2016
5 years ago

Hi Dan,
First off, thanks for posting these – they are great offseason reading!

One request: for the player comps, would you be able to add a year along with the name (ex. 2001 Greg Maddux vs just Greg Maddux)? This would help me better understand how much the projections really like a guy, particularly when his comparable player changed a lot over the course of their career.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago

I think Shaw is going to get non-tendered again. I think he’s a pretty good value at that price because I think he’ll bounce back enough to make him a viable starter, but Vlad Jr has been talking about going back to third and even if he doesn’t, Shaw was not good last year.

The more I think about this, the more I think Lindor is a good fit here. Biggio and Bichette can cover 2nd and 3rd (not sure who would take which one), and they have some positional players who Biggio, Bichette, and Lindor would block. He’s young and can be extended and help both now and in the future. You do that and get Jackie Bradley for CF and you’ve got yourself a really good lineup (and an interesting, if much too brittle and inconsistent, rotation).

Uncle SpikeMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Agreed. MLBTradeRumors has Shaw projected for $4.2-5.4M in arbitration and I have to imagine his market is $3M or less. Plus, it might be nice to dangle the carrot of playing 3B in front of Vlad if that makes him take his conditioning more seriously.

CheeseballMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Other than the prospect cost and how Lindor’s value is tied to his athletic defence which may not age well, sounds great.

dwigt2
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheeseball

I’d stay away from Lindor if I had control. The offense is not as good as his name value carries, and they are already fine up the middle.

SucramRenrutMember since 2017
5 years ago

I have a 2021 pipe-dream where the Buffalo Blue Jays go all in on 2021+ and get Bauer, Lindor and Springer and can do that without parting ways with Pearson. A man can dream.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  SucramRenrut

I don’t really know why you would have to give up Pearson for Lindor (and certainly not for free agents). The bigger issue is them feeling like they don’t have the cash to retain Cavan Biggio down the line, but that’s also a problem for tomorrow’s Blue Jays and not today’s.

bohknowsbmore
5 years ago

Am I the only one that gets the sense that Vlad Jr. gets a lot more rope from FG writers re: his offensive performance to date that would be afforded to many other top prospects? I can’t help but think it’s somewhat driven by all of the breathless “there’s no excuse for Vlad to not be in the majors Yet” comments that were made previously.

brendonkuhnMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  bohknowsbmore

That’s overthinking it. His age and minor league performance are MAJOR indicators of big success at major leagues.

EltnegMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  bohknowsbmore

The hype’s definitely died down some (nobody talks about him as a future MVP anymore) but strip all the pedigree stuff away and you have a guy who absolutely annihilated the minors as a teenager and has been an above-average MLB hitter through 180 games before turning 22. There’s every reason to expect him to be a very good hitter for a long time.

HughesMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  Eltneg

Basically the only big problem I have with his offense is his launch angle. He was 241th with a launch angle of 4.6 in 2020. He is crushing the ball and has good plate discipline.

A little nugget dropped in this ~start of the season Stanton article: Vlad has the third highest count of 118+ exit velocity events since 2015.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/giancarlo-stanton-probably-already-has-the-hardest-hit-of-the-year-again/

bohknowsbmore
5 years ago
Reply to  Eltneg

He’s above average against the league as a whole, but it’s increasingly looking like he’s set to be a poor 1B or DH only, which requires a lot more bat to be valuable.

carterMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  bohknowsbmore

If he really lost 32 lbs, that is a hell of a lot of weight. That is all.

Expo27Member since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  bohknowsbmore

In the 74 seasons of the integration era, fewer than 50 21 year olds have qualified for the batting title and posted a 115 wRC+ or better. He hasn’t been the immediate superstar people thought he might be, and perception of his performance has been hurt by guys like Tatis and Soto hitting the ground running, but what he’s done has still been pretty impressive

Tristan
5 years ago

Charlie Montoyo as Santiago Espinal’s player comp? The machine knows too much.

radivel
5 years ago
Reply to  Tristan

I’m already pissed off at Espinal’s bullpen management.

SucramRenrutMember since 2017
5 years ago
Reply to  radivel

But Montoyo was up for AL Manager of the Year! They must not have watched many Buffalo games this year.

tung_twista
5 years ago

Vlad Jr. is quickly approaching post-hype “the most overrated player in the league” status not too unlike Harper before his MVP season which might give us hope.
The difference, of course, is that Harper had wrc+ 124 mixed with above-average baserunning and defense in the outfield by then.
Vlad Jr. has wrc+ 108, one of the worst baserunning season ever by a rookie mixed with terrible defense at 3B and then 1B.
While I still expect Vlad Jr. to make the all star game at some point in his career, I’d easily take the under on career 50 WAR(~Giambi).

dl80Member since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  tung_twista

I think I agree. At this point, is everyone choosing Bichette’s career over Vlad’s?

More importantly, Bo and his father career WAR vs Vlad and his father? How much would you need to give the Bichettes to get even betting on both sides?

20? 30?

Connor Grey
5 years ago
Reply to  dl80

@dl80 I think the vast majority of people are taking Bo Bichette’s career at this point, me included. He’s already a very complete player and has been an excellent hitter too. Eric Longenhagen said in a chat a few months ago that was was wrong for not giving him a 70 FV. I still think Guerrero will have a nice peak but it looks like he’s going to be an extremely one dimensional player.

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  tung_twista

It will be very difficult to get to 50 WAR when he will be a DH by the age of 22. The player I have watched has no business being anywhere but on the pine except when his turn at bat comes up and even that has barely been league average.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  tung_twista

To be fair, it would have been a smart play to take the under on 50 WAR before he hit the big leagues (the median #1 prospect does not put up 50 WAR), but it’s even more so now.

I haven’t really seen much of Vlad Jr in the field for various reasons, but if he’s really that bad in at 1B (and assuming he’s too immobile to put in an outfield corner) then he’s going to have to absolutely rake to justify the hype. Pretty much no one reaches Frank Thomas-levels of offensive dominance, so you’re looking more like Edgar Martinez as the ceiling and most players don’t reach their ceilings or anything close to it. Edwin Encarnacion seems more like it.

carterMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

You certainly haven’t ever watched him in the field if you mention him in the outfield. His dad would be a better outfielder now, as would Frank Thomas, and probably Edgar for that matter. Today.

airforce21oneMember since 2026
5 years ago

“…it still projects his [Vlad Jr’s] average career at 50 WAR, only three less than it did before last season.”

Does Zips take body type/conditioning into account? Prince Fielder was out of the league by age 32. Is it possible to go back and look at Prince’s future career WAR projection when he was a similar age?

carterMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  airforce21one

50 WAR seems crazy high. I am of the opinion that he becomes a masher of the first order, and quick, but lets look at the other guys who run about as fast as he does.

Pujols: drafted as a shortstop. Played SS in the majors even.

Miggy: drafted as a shortstop. Played 3rd base in the MLB for a good percentage of his career.

Edwin Encarnacion: Nicknamed E5.

Everyone else is a catcher and Cano. The only way he gets that high is if he mashes like the top two guys above, while being able to run and play defense as well as they did in their early career. That seems like a stretch.

The Congo Hammer
5 years ago

I looked up Tellez’s comp, Mario Valdez. 87 wRC+ and 2 career homers in under 250 PA. Maybe that’s the comp because their last names end in “ez”.

But like, does ZIPS have a BETTER comp for Tellez? .261 with 27 homers seems pretty good and he led the majors in max eV, so I’m curious.

Woody1937Member since 2020
5 years ago

Anyone want to talk about SWR having the second highest IP projection on the team? HYPE but what’s that all about?

carterMember since 2020
5 years ago

Vlad has a pretty absurd projection…but I think it is warranted. I would be absolutely shocked if he doesn’t eventually turn into a beast. We are all talking like he is a bust, and he is 21 and just put up a 115 wRC+. He almost assuredly never will be as Soto, but gun to my head do I think he puts up multiple 150 wRC+ seasons? I’d say yes. It might not be this year, or next. But by 2026? Sign me up. He elevated the ball in the minors, he isn’t some lost cause. And a 21 year old coming off a 115 wRC+, if he didn’t have his track record? Well, we would certainly be singing his praises.

Regarding positions. Vlad is going to play 3rd this year. Rowdy absolutely mashed, and made significant changes. The projections do not show it, but he doesn’t need to be platooned and hits the ball as hard as almost anyone in the entire MLB. He will certainly DH a lot, but I’d take the over on his projection, which is already quite good for an everyday player, even at first.