Catching up on Career Milestone Projections

Eric Hartline, William Liang, and Vincent Carchietta-Imagn Images

Jacob deGrom tallied his 2,000th strikeout last week, providing another late-career achievement that might be engraved on a Cooperstown plaque sometime in the 2030s. That deGrom would reach 2,000 strikeouts seemed almost certain back at the end of the 2020 season, when he was 641 away. At that time, he’d struck out at least 200 batters in four of his six non-pandemic seasons. The first of those two other seasons was his 2014 NL Rookie of the Year campaign, when he didn’t debut until May 15, and in 2016, injuries limited him to just 24 starts. But since 2020, deGrom has been an example of Zeno’s paradox, seeming perpetually stuck in medias res. Achilles did eventually catch the tortoise, and deGrom and calculus won the day.

deGrom’s journey to 2,000 is a good reminder of why I like to occasionally harass ZiPS for milestone probabilities rather than simply dividing a player’s remaining distance by his most recent seasonal number and calling it a day. Whether or not there are infinite universes where every possibility happens, in this one, tendons tear and players age. A player can be on pace to finish with 500 home runs for a decade and never come particularly close, while another can sneak in the back door to a milestone that nobody saw coming, as Nick Markakis threatened to do late in his career.

The uncertainty is what makes baseball (and life) interesting. I can tell you that Aaron Judge needs 115 homers to make it to number 500; I have a calculator for that, and even if I didn’t, I was once a third-grader. But the road is hard to map, and the aging curve, performance models, and injury models in ZiPS give us a better idea as to the probability that Judge will hit 500 or 600 in this particular universe. It’s no fun to have such a tool and not deploy it, so it’s a good time to do an update on baseball’s search for pretty, round numbers.

ZiPS Career Hit Probabilities
Player 2027 Age Proj. Hits Odds of 3000 Odds of 2500
Freddie Freeman 37 3117 68% 100%
Jose Altuve 37 2848 36% 100%
Bobby Witt Jr. 27 2731 40% 61%
Manny Machado 34 2659 12% 70%
Julio Rodríguez 26 2636 23% 59%
Juan Soto 28 2613 27% 60%
Paul Goldschmidt 39 2548 0% 51%
Bryce Harper 34 2527 1% 50%
Elly De La Cruz 25 2523 9% 52%
Vladimir Guerrero Jr. 28 2517 6% 51%
Mookie Betts 34 2412 3% 46%
Nolan Arenado 36 2383 0% 22%
Junior Caminero 23 2376 2% 40%
Francisco Lindor 33 2376 1% 35%
José Ramírez 34 2365 0% 28%
Xander Bogaerts 34 2354 0% 15%
CJ Abrams 26 2349 2% 31%
Pete Crow-Armstrong 25 2340 3% 34%
Michael Harris II 26 2320 2% 25%
Gunnar Henderson 26 2297 2% 21%
Corbin Carroll 26 2247 3% 26%

Freddie Freeman pulled within 500 hits of the 3,000-hit mark this year, and just as importantly, he did it without any significant decline. The longer he mostly defies Father Time, the steeper a decline has to be to prevent him from reaching the milestone. With a normal aging curve from here on out, he gets to 3,000 with probably a season or so to spare.

Jose Altuve ought to also pull within 500 by the end of the season, and though he’s the same age as Freeman, he has shown serious decline, so he’ll need a lot more fortune. Of the players with a long tail, meaning there’s enough uncertainty to make them plausible future 3,000-hit candidates, Bobby Witt Jr. looks to be in the most promising place. Machado needs to age very well, and of the late-20s guys who could still establish 3,000-hit runs, Julio Rodríguez and Juan Soto are the most likely. After Soto, the probabilities drop off quickly.

ZiPS Career Home Run Probabilities
Player 2027 Age Proj. HR Odds of 700 Odds of 600 Odds of 500
Juan Soto 28 567 12% 44% 70%
Shohei Ohtani 32 552 8% 38% 65%
Junior Caminero 23 530 9% 45% 54%
Aaron Judge 35 528 1% 28% 59%
Kyle Schwarber 34 512 0% 11% 52%
Nick Kurtz 24 505 1% 7% 51%
Giancarlo Stanton 37 503 0% 0% 51%
Mike Trout 35 497 0% 1% 47%
Bryce Harper 34 493 0% 4% 45%
Manny Machado 34 472 0% 3% 42%
Yordan Alvarez 30 462 0% 6% 44%
Matt Olson 33 451 0% 2% 31%
Freddie Freeman 37 444 0% 1% 18%
Pete Crow-Armstrong 25 440 0% 5% 23%
Paul Goldschmidt 39 430 0% 0% 0%
Pete Alonso 32 429 0% 1% 19%
Eugenio Suárez 35 423 0% 0% 0%
Elly De La Cruz 25 419 1% 4% 18%
Nolan Arenado 36 414 0% 0% 1%
James Wood 24 414 0% 2% 17%
Julio Rodríguez 26 412 0% 2% 16%
Rafael Devers 30 389 0% 1% 9%
Francisco Lindor 33 382 0% 0% 1%
Salvador Perez 37 380 0% 0% 0%
Mookie Betts 34 375 0% 0% 1%
José Ramírez 34 374 0% 0% 0%
Wyatt Langford 25 368 0% 1% 8%
Colson Montgomery 25 366 0% 1% 7%
Corbin Carroll 26 365 0% 1% 7%

There are lots of hitters with an established shot at hitting 500 home runs, but as you’ll notice, many of them are older players, who are largely there because of their proximity. Nobody looks likely to threaten Barry Bonds’ all-time record of 762 or even to pass Albert Pujols’ total of 703 to move into fourth place on the career leaderboard.

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Perhaps the most interesting player on this list is Junior Caminero, for a lot of the same reasons that Giancarlo Stanton projected similarly, in that he’s got a lot of home runs under his belt already and is extremely young. Caminero has been around for a while, but he only turned 23 last month, and he’s going to be near 100 homers by the end of this season. He has 87 career home runs now, with 35 so far this year, and if he hits the eight homers our projections have for him the rest of the way, he’ll rank ninth in AL/NL history for home runs through his age-22 season. Four of the eight players to hit more than 95 homers through their age-22 campaigns retired with more than 500 — Mel Ott (115 through age-22, 511 career), Eddie Mathews (112, 512), Alex Rodriguez (106, 696), Frank Robinson (98, 586) — while three others are still active and have at least a decent shot of getting to 500: Juan Soto (98, 265), Mike Trout (98, 424), Bryce Harper (97, 389).

Kyle Schwarber is likely to finish this season with 45-50 homers again, and his odds of reaching the 500 milestone are now better than a coin flip for the first time in his career. Remarkably, he also has an 11% chance at hitting 600 home runs, which is far from impossible. Judge’s injury this year has knocked about 40 homers off his career projection, and Stanton’s chance at 500 homers, which seemed like an easy number a decade ago, remains about a coin flip. He’ll have to get back on the field first, of course, and it’s in doubt that we’ll see him in the Yankees lineup again this year.

ZiPS Career Batting Average Probabilities
Player 2027 Age Proj. Batting Average Odds of .300
Luis Arraez 30 .307 58%
Freddie Freeman 37 .294 7%
Jose Altuve 37 .291 1%
Chandler Simpson 26 .290 2%

This chart is basically Luis Arraez. I almost cut it completely, but it’s interesting in how few players are on it. It’s funny seeing Chandler Simpson on there, but he’s close enough to .300 that he could get to the sunny side of it for a while, and perversely, the fact that he doesn’t have power or draw walks might mean that if he dips down to a .260-.270 mark for a season, he could lose his job very quickly — thereby preserving his career average above .300.

While there’s no chart of it, I can’t leave here without noting that Corbin Carroll has a 12% projected chance at recording 200 career triples and is a coin flip for 150. If Carroll gets to 200 triples, he’d become just the ninth member of the 200 Triple Club, and the first to join it since Tris Speaker in 1924. The last player to get to the 150 mark was Roberto Clemente in 1970, and before him, Stan Musial in 1954. Simply, nobody hits triples like Carroll does in today’s game, and nobody has for some time. ZiPS projects that no other active player will get to triple digits. The last player to reach 100 triples was José Reyes in 2012.

ZiPS Career Win Probabilities
Player 2027 Age Proj. Wins Odds of 300 Odds of 200
Chris Sale 38 192 0% 45%
Gerrit Cole 36 190 0% 48%
Sonny Gray 37 171 0% 8%
Logan Webb 30 170 0% 27%
Tarik Skubal 30 165 0% 32%
Paul Skenes 25 162 2% 26%
Yoshinobu Yamamoto 28 158 0% 19%
Zack Wheeler 37 154 0% 2%
Max Fried 33 154 0% 5%
Kevin Gausman 36 152 0% 2%
Cristopher Sánchez 30 150 0% 4%
Dylan Cease 31 149 0% 3%
Michael Wacha 35 145 0% 2%
Bryan Woo 27 142 0% 4%
Eduardo Rodriguez 34 141 0% 2%
Nathan Eovaldi 37 139 0% 1%
Aaron Nola 34 136 0% 0%
Garrett Crochet 28 134 0% 12%
Framber Valdez 33 131 0% 1%
José Berríos 33 130 0% 0%
Jacob Misiorowski 25 129 1% 11%
Jesús Luzardo 29 129 0% 1%

The 300 Win Club is all but officially not accepting any new members. While there are a couple of pitchers who round up to at least 1%, it’s basically a case of Paul Skenes and Jacob Misiorowski being a combination of awesome enough, young enough, and not yet having their elbows implode. As I’ve mentioned a few times in chats over the last couple of years, and as I wrote last year, ZiPS doesn’t see anyone as having 50% odds to make it to even 200 wins. If this holds true, either BBWAA voters will need to adjust to the expectations of modern baseball or we will have a lot of trouble inducting pitchers into the Hall of Fame. I’m hoping Félix Hernández’s progress in the voting and Cole Hamels’ solid are indications of the former.

Let’s put it this way: Michael Wacha may enter the 2027 season as sixth in wins among active pitchers. The youngest pitcher with 100 wins is José Berríos, who turned 32 a couple of months ago.

ZiPS Career Strikeout Probabilities
Player 2027 Age Proj. Strikeouts Odds of 3000
Chris Sale 38 3228 79%
Dylan Cease 31 2891 47%
Gerrit Cole 36 2743 23%
Tarik Skubal 30 2655 42%
Kevin Gausman 36 2617 5%
Aaron Nola 34 2551 3%
Zack Wheeler 37 2506 0%
Sonny Gray 37 2479 0%
Paul Skenes 25 2465 18%
Jesús Luzardo 29 2399 2%
Jacob deGrom 39 2336 0%
Jacob Misiorowski 25 2335 10%

This chart looks a lot like the 200-win list, with Chris Sale and Gerrit Cole near the top. Dylan Cease and Tarik Skubal have the best shot of the mid-career pitchers, with a big dropoff until we get to Skenes and Misiorowski who, again, are awesome, young, and haven’t had their arms fall off yet. Yes, there is a Hunger Games component to pitching milestones.





Dan Szymborski is a senior writer for FanGraphs and the developer of the ZiPS projection system. He was a writer for ESPN.com from 2010-2018, a regular guest on a number of radio shows and podcasts, and a voting BBWAA member. He also maintains a terrible Twitter account at @DSzymborski.

59 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
RoyHobbsGibson88
3 days ago

Nice article Dan. When you next write this article please include the current total / stat column. Thank you.

oaktownbluesMember since 2025
3 days ago

Thanks Dan, these are always fun.

I would appreciate it if the tables also showed each players current total for the stat in question, rather than just the projection.

mookie28Member since 2016
3 days ago
Reply to  oaktownblues

Seems like that should have been a given. Still enjoyed the piece.

TKDCMember since 2016
3 days ago

Have Acuña’s projections really nosedived that much or was he left off for some other reason?

MoateMember since 2022
3 days ago
Reply to  TKDC

Left off which chart?

Quick answer: he’s hitting his Prime(tm) years and projects to go 25/25 for the next 3 seasons. That’s really good, but I assume the models also factor in playing time history, and his is…uh…Stantonian? Kid can’t stay on the diamond, so he can’t rack numbers like others.

TKDCMember since 2016
3 days ago
Reply to  Moate

The home run chart. He’s at 199. I’m surprised his median ROC falls below this chart.

MoateMember since 2022
3 days ago
Reply to  TKDC

Again: Stanton is your comparison here. Acuna has some INSANE seasons in his past, but if ZIPs “only” has him with 26 HR each in his age 28, 29 & 30 seasons, especially when he 3 seasons over 500 PA in his career, IDK how he gets there unless he plays another 10+ years (which the model might think is highly unlikely)

Think of it this way: Schwarber (yes, I know he’s older) projects for 41, 35, 28 in his next 3 years and has 379 in the tank already and he “only” has a 52% chance at 500.

AnonMember since 2020
3 days ago
Reply to  Moate

The 41 for Schwarber was for this year and those 3-year ZiPS projections on the player pages are the pre-season projections. They don’t update in-season and aren’t updated until just before next season. Seems likely that the future projections will go up given he’s thumped the pre-season projection.

TKDCMember since 2016
2 days ago
Reply to  Moate

Yeah, I’m not saying I’m surprised his projection isn’t 500. I’m surprised it isn’t 365. I’d also add I’m a little surprised Tatis’ isn’t either and very surprised Guerrero isn’t.

Bud SmithMember since 2020
3 days ago

Who is the eighth player with more than 95 homers through their age-22 campaign (the one who is non-active and non-HOF)?

dustyelbowsMember since 2020
3 days ago
Reply to  Bud Smith

Tony Conigliaro!

frankMember since 2016
2 days ago
Reply to  dustyelbows

oh my

PC1970Member since 2024
3 days ago

Thanks Dan.

How close was McGonigle on the hit/BA chart?

Obviously, he’s a rookie, so he has a long way to go, but, hitting over .280 as a 21 year old should bode well for both his counting stats & his BA, assuming he’s got another gear..which I think his plate discipline indicates may be the case.

bookbookMember since 2019
3 days ago

It’s hard to imagine, in the year of our lord 2026, Julio Rodriguez reaching 3,000 hits. Will the league ban the slider low and away?

slicedfriedgoldMember since 2019
3 days ago
Reply to  bookbook

As a Mariners fan, I cannot help but agree with tears in my eyes.

Fun-Hating DorkMember since 2019
2 days ago
Reply to  bookbook

He’s about to wrap his age-25 season at ~800 hits. Now, obviously, if his ’26 stats are the start of a new, lower baseline, he doesn’t have a chance, but already having a 180-hit and 174-hit season this early in his prime years is a good indicator that he might — might — have a shot .

ScoreboardMember since 2016
3 days ago

For each of the tables, can you include the number the batters are currently at? it’s hard for me to abstractly sense how far away at player is from the milestones based solely on the probabilities.

resist1922Member since 2024
3 days ago

PCA projected for more career HR than James Wood is somewhat surprising. Somewhat shocking?

HappyFunBallMember since 2019
3 days ago
Reply to  resist1922

Well he has more presently, and probably has a more favorable aging curve despite being a year older

JimmyMember since 2019
3 days ago
Reply to  HappyFunBall

Aside from this, even though CF defense declines rapidly in your 30s, PCA should still be a productive outfielder for a very long time, whereas Wood is already quite bad as a corner outfielder. He’ll likely be a 1B or DH eventually, and the offensive bar to playing time will be much higher. I’d imagine he’s predicted to have more HR/PA.

MoateMember since 2022
3 days ago
Reply to  resist1922

James wood has been good and was projected as more of a power heavy profile as a prospect, but looking at what they’ve done in actual baseball games probably fuels projection algos more than “fv80 power upside”.

PCA has just as many 30 HR seasons in his pocket at this point.

They’re about 5 months apart in age, so they’re basically in the same spot of their aging curve and while the HR totals are nearly the same (70-74) I feel like maybe PCA’s ISO being a smidge higher or something in his batted ball metrics might be tipping this for him?

Scotty GMember since 2020
3 days ago

Maybe not as romantic as some of the other traditional round numbers, but I’d be interested to see the probabilities of anyone finishing with a .400 OBP. Although I can’t think of anyone with a fighting chance besides Soto, Judge, Harper, and Yordan.

matthayden4Member since 2024
3 days ago
Reply to  Scotty G

Trout’s still at .405 for his career, but he hasn’t had a season with an OBP that high since 2021. I imagine he’ll dip below .400 before he calls it a day.

darren
3 days ago

Do these numbers seem wildly optimistic?

  • 39-year-old Goldschmidt has ~300 hits left in him.
  • Witt will get 1,800+ hits from age 27 on.
  • Kurtz, who currently has 57 career HR, is more likely than not to reach 500.
  • Caminero (87 HR, 345 H) will reach 500 HR and 2,300 H, and has almost 50/50 shot of 600 HR.
dustyelbowsMember since 2020
3 days ago
Reply to  darren

the Caminero 600 one just looks like a typo to me – would imply that he has only a 9% chance of finishing between 500-600 but five times higher probability of reaching 600 or above.

Smiling PolitelyMember since 2018
3 days ago
Reply to  darren

I’m not sure Goldy has 100 hits left in him, though I was wrong about his demise before.

Random note: it makes me sad no one has even mentioned Stolen Bases in this column

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 days ago

People don’t really get excited about the 600 stolen base club, probably because then they would have to debate the merits of Otis Nixon’s career.

darren
1 day ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

It was… interesting?

AnonMember since 2020
3 days ago

Carroll just took over as the active leader in triples in the last few weeks as his 59 now leads Trout and Starling Marte by 4. He’s still keeping the dream of a 20/20/20/20 season alive, currently at 28/16/18/18. He’s had at least 2 HR and SB in every month this year and 4 3B in 3 of the 5 months so he’s got a pretty good shot at it.

I also was going to post that I’m surprised Tatis Jr didn’t make either of the lists but in looking at his career numbers, they’re a little lower than I thought.

kriscolicMember since 2020
3 days ago

Dan, I’m sure you’ve addreesed this before, but does Zips assume that players close to milestones will hang on as long as possible in order to try to cross the line? The Trout/Harper projected proximity to 500 has me wondering…

riceballMember since 2020
3 days ago
Reply to  kriscolic

yeah, similarly would expect Altuve try to do something similar a la Craig Biggio

PC1970Member since 2024
3 days ago
Reply to  riceball

Esp considering Houston is headed for a downturn.

Sort of like Miguel Cabrera & Detroit- Letting the franchise icon hang around to hit milestones is a lot easier when the team is bad & the subpar performance isn’t hindering a playoff run.

Add in the marketing of the milestone being maybe the only positive thing the team has to sell & it’s a win-win all the way around.

kenkenkenMember since 2021
3 days ago

I would be interested to see where Eury Perez lands on the career strikeouts projections. Eury is a full year younger than Jacob Misiorowski and currently has the edge on career strikeouts 350 to 303.

Billsaints
3 days ago

Felt like the end of every section should have been followed by the ‘so you’re telling me there’s a chance’ gif.

Doug LampertMember since 2016
3 days ago
Reply to  Billsaints

Except for pitcher wins where realistically, there’s no chance without a significant rules change.

waka25Member since 2021
3 days ago

A more ignoble career milestone is on the horizon within the next three years: 2,000 Career Batting Strikeouts. A club that currently only has nine players will likely expand to 14 with the inclusion of Suarez, Freeman, Trout, Harper, and Schwarber by 2029.

Doug LampertMember since 2016
3 days ago
Reply to  waka25

That sort of negative milestone is still only reached by the best players. To quote someone or other, “You need to be a very good pitcher to have a 20 loss season.”

Note that the only 300 loss pitchers are Cy Young and Pud Glavin.

The current 2,000 strikeout batters are Reggie Jackson, Jim Thome, Adam Dunn, Sammy Sosa, Alex Rodriguez, Miguel Cabrera, Giancarlo Stanton, Paul Goldschmidt, and Andres Galarraga. None of these are/were particularly bad hitters.

Mitchell MooreMember since 2020
3 days ago
Reply to  Doug Lampert

Into the 1960s Jimmie Foxx and Babe Ruth were 1/2 on the career strikeouts leader board.

waka25Member since 2021
3 days ago
Reply to  Doug Lampert

Oh yeah, totally. Not debating that! Same with GIDPs.
I’m just selfishly wondering what % likelihood we may see somebody dethrone Reggie over the next six or seven years.

motown odenMember since 2024
3 days ago

Biggest surprise to me, would be that while Cole is projected for 30 more wins, he’s anticipated to have less than 400 whiffs to go along with that.

Over his last four seasons including this one, he’s won 43 games and fanned 678. I don’t see how he wins 30 without going way over on strikeouts.

Would be interesting to see that ZIPS

drplantwrenchMember since 2024
3 days ago

if trout had unreasonably good health he might already be on the way to 600…. absolutely hate to see legends hamstrung with injuries

JustinMember since 2025
3 days ago

Projecting Sal Perez has another 60 homers left in him is awful generous.

nicklocarnoMember since 2020
3 days ago

I find the age distributions of the various charts interesting. For Hits there’s no one between 29 and 32… you’re either old and pretty close, or young and haven’t fallen off the pace yet.

darren
3 days ago
Reply to  nicklocarno

I think that suggests that the youngsters’ projections might be a little too optimistic.

Fun-Hating DorkMember since 2019
2 days ago
Reply to  nicklocarno

I suspect the pandemic is playing some havoc with career totals here — chunking out 100 games of a player’s prime tends to suppress their career totals.

andyohr54
3 days ago

Thanks for this Dan. I believe Mike Trout, Bryce Harper, Manny Machado, Matt Olson, and Pete Alonso will all get to 500 HR, despite having less than a 50% chance in this model, but time will tell.

Trout is 35 years old, just 76 HR away from 500, and under contract for 4 more years. He needs just 19 HR per year, so he will certainly get there barring any more major injuries like he had from 2021-24. Fortunately, he was able to play 130 games and hit 26 HR last year, and is healthy this year and on pace for the same. However, he has missed so much time with injuries in recent years, and doesn’t have the 45 HR power he used to, so I I understand his likelihood being under 50%. Despite that, I still think he will reach 500 HR.

Machado is 34 years old, he’s 107 HR away and under contract for 7 more years. He needs 16 HR per year, so he will almost certainly get there. He’s had a decline in performance this year, but he’s the one player I was surprised to see under 50% likelihood.

Harper is 33 years old, and 111 HR away from 500 HR. He’s under contract for 5 more years, so he needs 22 HR per year. He’s had injuries in recent years so he’s less likely to reach 500 HR than Trout or Machado, but I still think he’s likely to get there.

Olson is 32 years old, and 176 HR away. He’s only under contract for 4 more years, so he needs 44 HR per year to get to 500 HR. That’s unlikely, but I could see him doing it, especially since he hit 54 HR in 2023, and has also played in over 900 consecutive games.

Alonso is 31 years old and 206 HR away from 500 HR. He’s under contract for 4 more years, so he would need 52 HR per year to get to 500 HR, which is very unlikely, although he hit 53 HR as a rookie in 2019. He also has a streak of 545 consecutive games played. He is the youngest player of this group, so may be the most likely of these players to sign another contract after his current contract expires.

While I believe Trout, Machado, and maybe Harper will retire with their current teams at the end of their current contracts, I believe that Olson and Alonso would be likely to sign new contracts, potentially for multiple seasons, after their current contracts expire since they are slightly younger and very durable (as of now), especially if they are close to 500 HR. If this is the case, it greatly increases their chances. Also, I should mention that this doesn’t even factor in the last 5 weeks of this season, so if they finish the season strong, any/all of these players would make it even easier going forward to keep these paces.

No one will ever win 300 games again, and with pitchers throwing fewer innings these days, 3000 K seems tough but not impossible. I never considered that Justin Verlander had a chance to get to 300, but he is only 34 wins away! Plus he had 17 Postseason Wins! Playing on the lousy Mets and Giants at the end of his career certainly didn’t help, but he still finished his career more than 100 Wins over .500! Also the only guy besides Ryan and Koufax with 3 no-hitters! Definitely one of the best players of all time.

dangledangleMember since 2024
3 days ago

Stanton just restrained his calf. Can not stay or get healthy.

Fun-Hating DorkMember since 2019
2 days ago
Reply to  dangledangle

No, no. He strained his other calf while while dealing with the re-strained calf.

We’re definitely passing 50%+ odds that he’s done as a Yankee, about 90% chance he’s not a Yankee next season, and I’d say about 1 in 4 odds he never plays another MLB game.

darren
1 day ago

He should have shown more restraint.

dangledangleMember since 2024
3 days ago

For the projected wins Yoshinobu Yamamoto really jumped out me. As good as he’s been he only has 31 career wins. A lot of those projected with decent odds have banked alot of their career tallies. This is largely true for most counting stats especially for those that take a long time to accumulate these days..

Spahn_and_Sain
3 days ago

“Achilles did eventually catch the tortoise, and deGrom and calculus won the day.”
That is not how Zeno’s paradox or infinitesimal calculus work.

ackbar7Member since 2020
3 days ago

Is it likely that ZIPS is optimistic on pitcher wins? Historically starters got more wins but going forward it seems likely that starters will continue to pitch fewer innings and get fewer opportunities to get the win.

Runaway ToasterMember since 2016
2 days ago

Is Cole a Hall of Fame? He feels like a Cole Hamels-like “just on the outside” player to me, but I can’t think of many contemporary SP I’d put in.

Jason BMember since 2017
2 days ago

It’s going to be really interesting to see how the HOF treats starting pitchers after the Verlander, Kershaw, Scherzer, Greinke, and Sale contingent gets their plaques. Cole, Wheeler, and deGrom will be the canaries in the proverbial coal mine.

Jason BMember since 2017
2 days ago
Reply to  Jason B

To expand a bit, I would really love to see Johan Santana get a second look from one of these newly-enacted HOF committees.

From that previous generation (around 2000-15) I think Oswalt and Buehrle come up just short, and various folks like Carpenter, Colon, and Wainwright on the next level down (i.e., not especially strong HOF cases but prime “Hall of Very Good” candidates).

In the more recent generation (2015-present) I think the three I mentioned will be the best test cases, with guys like Snell, Nola and Sonny Gray lagging a step behind. Snell has multiple CYs but has been pretty ineffectual otherwise. Nola has just been heinous for the last two years and is only a 1x all-star and has never finished above 3rd (once) in CY balloting. Fried probably too-little, too-late barring continuing to pitch effectively until he’s 40. Meanwhile Dylan Cease may be interesting to watch if he can keep piling up 4-6 WAR seasons.

All that said, man we are really going to have to adjust our expectations because few if any of these guys will even be within shouting distance of traditional milestones like 200 wins…

EltnegMember since 2020
2 days ago

ZIPS thinks Nick Kurtz has better than even odds to reach 500 after 216 career games in his 22-23yo seasons? That feels crazy to me.

Stanton had 117 HR and a 140 wRC+ through his age-23 season, what odds would ZIPS have given him at that point?

darren
1 day ago
Reply to  Eltneg

Stanton is just one player so he’s not much to go on but your point still stands. There are also guys like Cepeda, Conigiliaro, Fielder, Powell, Gonzalez, Bellinger, etc. who had gaudy numbers by age 23 and fell short by plenty for various reasons. I wonder what it is that ZIPS sees in Kurtz and Caminero that makes them different from these guys.

darren
1 day ago

Am I wrong in thinking that having 20+ players who are active right now who are going to have 2300+ hits is a really high number?

Relatedly, what assumptions does ZIPS make about the offensive environment going forward? Does it assume that a .245 average BA and tons of Ks is the new normal?