The Giants Are Coming in for a Verlanding

Troy Taormina-Imagn Images

What does it cost to sign a living legend? About $15 million, it turns out. Three-time Cy Young winner Justin Verlander is taking his talents to the West Coast for the first time, having inked a one-year deal with the San Francisco Giants for that aforementioned sum.

It’s another bold signing for newly appointed supreme prefect of baseball operations Gerald D. “Buster” Posey, who officially took charge a little over three months ago. And yet — if we give Posey the credit he’s reportedly due for the Matt Chapman extension — more than a quarter of San Francisco’s payroll (according to CBT math) is now devoted to players Posey is responsible for signing.

But Verlander could very well have cost more. He made nearly three times as much last season, and had he hit the 140-inning threshold in 2024, he would’ve been able to activate a player option worth $35 million, not $15 million. So why take such a big haircut? This is Justin Verlander, for God’s sake.

The phrase “it takes one to know one” surely doesn’t apply to future Hall of Famers. You don’t need Posey’s immaculate playing credentials to appreciate what Verlander’s done over his career.

One of the more interesting conversations that’s been happening around baseball recently concerns how Hall of Fame voters should treat starting pitchers in this era of five-and-dive and multiple Tommy John surgeries. Basically nobody is putting up traditional Hall of Fame numbers anymore, and the first-time candidacy of Félix Hernández makes for an obvious entry point to the issue. Something is going to have to give, or else we’re going to go decades between Hall of Fame starting pitchers, the argument goes.

And then it stops for the necessary caveat: Except for Clayton Kershaw, Max Scherzer, and Verlander.

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Because Verlander’s accomplishments — 262 wins, 3,415 strikeouts, 82.0 WAR, a Rookie of the Year Award, an MVP, three Cy Young Awards, and four other top-three finishes — play in any era under any standard. He’s not only a Hall of Famer, he’s a first-ballot Hall of Famer. And not only is he a first-ballot Hall of Famer, his candidacy is such that any voter who leaves him off their ballot is going to be (correctly) dismissed as a crank.

Surely Posey knows this. His Giants defeated Verlander’s Tigers in the 2012 World Series. In fact, Verlander was already a star when Posey was merely a prospect — even a pitching prospect, of sorts. In 2008, Posey posted a 1.17 ERA with six saves as a two-way player at Florida State. That year, the Giants drafted him fifth overall. Verlander finished that season with an even 600 major league innings pitched for his career.

Verlander is only four years older than Posey. The Giants’ baseball ops ringmaster admittedly retired young, but not that young. Verlander turns 42 next month, and like most civic institutions that came into being during the Reagan Administration, he’s falling apart.

Verlander aged extremely well, all things considered; he won two of his Cy Young Awards after he turned 36, with one of them coming after he missed (essentially) two full seasons with a torn UCL. At age 40, he commanded $43.3 million a year in a free agent contract from the Mets, and pitched well that season, which included a second midseason trade to Houston.

But last year was really bad. Jay Jaffe broke down the gory details in September, as the unthinkable was becoming increasingly probable: The Astros would have to leave Verlander off their postseason roster. And that’s not just an artifact of Houston’s great pitching depth; Verlander’s fastball lost velocity, his changeup lost some run, his curveball wasn’t curving, his slider wasn’t sliding.

In his Cy Young season of 2022, Verlander threw four pitch types; opponents couldn’t manage a .200 batting average or a .300 slugging against any of them. In 2024, Verlander’s two most common pitches were his fastball (against which opponents hit .299 and slugged .497) and his curveball (.340 and .560).

I apologize for being slightly unkind with this next part, but here are some selected stats from two veteran starting pitchers who hit the free agent market this winter. One is Verlander. Can you guess which one, and who the other is?

Two Pitchers in 2024
Player ERA FIP Opp. wOBA K% BB% BF/GS
A 5.62 4.41 .357 18.2% 7.1% 23.9
B 5.48 4.78 .337 18.7% 6.8% 23.3

Player B is Verlander. Player A is Patrick Corbin.

And at the risk of complaining about both the food and the portion size, Corbin stayed healthy all year and Verlander didn’t. Two stints on the IL — one for shoulder inflammation and another for neck discomfort — limited Verlander to 17 starts and just 90 1/3 innings. That’s a career low, apart from his two-start debut in 2005 and his Tommy John-imposed sabbatical.

It’s why Verlander is making $15 million to play for the Giants instead of $35 million to play for the Astros, which feels like it would’ve been Armageddon for a team that just traded Kyle Tucker before he got too expensive.

Nowadays, $15 million doesn’t buy all that much on the starting pitching market. I’m hardly the first observer to notice that Verlander got the same guaranteed contract from San Francisco that Alex Cobb got from Verlander’s old team, the Tigers. Cobb made only three starts last year, and at 37, he’s not that much younger than Verlander. Nor does he have anything like Verlander’s superstar history.

But $15 million is just about what it costs to get a no. 5 starter for a year on the free agent market. And as hard as it is to believe, that’s about where Verlander slots into the Giants’ rotation, behind Logan Webb, Robbie Ray, Jordan Hicks, and Kyle Harrison.

Posey, the retired superstar with zero baseball ops experience, is unique among baseball’s 30 prince-bishops of roster construction. His appointment is a throwback to an older, less enlightened age. It’s Wayne Gretzky coaching the Arizona Coyotes or Ted Williams managing the Senators.

I’m fascinated by Posey’s every move. Partially because, in the post-Theo Epstein gold rush to stuff every front office with private school MBAs until you run out of team-branded quarter-zips, front office thought has gotten pretty same-y. Whatever Posey does, it’s different, and therefore interesting. But if he wades into this job without proper forethought and humility, it could also be a highly entertaining failure.

And yet, as much as my attitude toward the current Giants could best be described as “skeptical rubbernecking,” I know that Posey is not an idiot. He’s not signing Verlander because he thinks he’s getting a no. 1 starter for the cost of a lightly used Cleveland Guardians castoff. He’s signing Verlander because, like every team, the Giants need innings in bulk. And while Verlander might be cooked, it bears repeating that he was hurt last year and playing in an unfavorable home ballpark. Moreover, Verlander allowed his highest opponent BABIP in a decade, and his xERA was more than a run and a half lower than his ERA. There’s an argument (I don’t know if I buy it, but it exists) that Verlander’s decline has been exaggerated by rotten batted ball luck. Which would make him ripe for a bounce-back season, even despite his advanced age.

Unkink Verlander’s neck, settle his score with the BABIP gods, and put him in a stadium with a big outfield; you might get 100 league-average innings out of him. Surely that’s a worthwhile investment of $15 million in this market. At least, that seems to be the logic. We’ll see if it turns out to be sound.





Michael is a writer at FanGraphs. Previously, he was a staff writer at The Ringer and D1Baseball, and his work has appeared at Grantland, Baseball Prospectus, The Atlantic, ESPN.com, and various ill-remembered Phillies blogs. Follow him on Twitter, if you must, @MichaelBaumann.

23 Comments
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GoodEnoughForMeMember since 2018
1 year ago

We will likely know after just a few starts if he is cooked or not, but since they’re not hoping for any more from him than the back of their rotation, I suppose why not? Even a 100-120 inning 4.25 FIP pitcher is either valuable and/or flippable. I might rather have thrown this money at Quintana or a similar slightly younger pitcher given SF’s park, but it’s not the end of the world.

Jim in MaineMember since 2021
1 year ago

Since the Giants 2025 ZiPS have already been published could Dan be persuaded to give us Verlander’s projection in this comment section please?

Jake SchultzMember since 2020
1 year ago

Not sure there’s a better ball writer in this business than you

jtsnowdayMember since 2022
1 year ago

I know that Posey is not an idiot. 

Not sure if this was on purpose (I wouldn’t put it past you!), but this made me chuckle because of how it evokes former Giants GM Brian Sabean. His first move as GM in 1996 was trading popular but expensive and aging Matt Williams for a young Jeff Kent among others, arousing the ire of the fanbase. He then called a press conference which he led off by saying “I am not an idiot”: https://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/GM-Defends-Williams-Deal-Sabean-I-am-not-an-2959131.php

Some other choice quotes from that conference include “I’ve received a lot of voice-mail messages telling me to stick my head where it isn’t supposed to go” and “I didn’t know we had this many fans. You sure don’t see ’em at the ballpark”. Somehow he went on after that to lead the Giants for 20 years, in no small part because Kent turned out to be a future MVP. That quote became quite legendary though. We’ll see if Posey has similar success in store.

boomstickMember since 2024
1 year ago

After the Pujols ride off into the sunset on a banger season, we’re due for the JV to do the same. I hope this works out. As a Rangers fan, I’m glad to see him out of the AL West.

viceroyMember since 2020
1 year ago

Getting Verlander to potentially mentor the team’s younger pitchers has to be worth something too, right? How much are people like Pujols and Jimmy Rollins and Barry Bonds getting paid for advising roles?

Travis LMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  viceroy

Isn’t there a trope that the best players make the worst skill coaches? Ted Williams is a famous example. Are these guys getting paid for their coaching roles, or are they getting paid as public relations efforts?

If the latter (mostly PR and good vibes), there is probably no value (or potentially negative value) in the mentorship aspect.

Oleg
1 year ago

I guess you can say the Giant are Verlandest.

obsessivegiantscompulsive
1 year ago

I’m good with this deal. Potentially great.

It does look like a bad BABIP 2024 season: per Savant, his xERA was 3.78, which is about the same as the season before, 3.63, and thus it looks like his BABIP luck evened out, his ERA over the two seasons is 4.03. And maybe went overboard with the bad in 2024.

If the Giants can get a high 3 to low 4 ERA from Verlander and he can pitch over 100 innings, that would be great to get in the #3 spot after Webb and Ray, and would make Hicks and Harrison great back of rotation starting pitchers. Hopefully his not pitching a full 2024 season left his body in better shape to pitch healthy in 2025. And we saw how long Snell needed to get ready for the season, so one can view Verlander’s poor return late in the season with that perspective.

And overall, if he can pitch that well and that many innings, then that’s roughly an average WAR season which is what $15M is roughly paying for.

I’m also hoping for long term benefits from him being a teammate of so many young pitchers. He was starting his mid-30’s decline (his ERA climbed to mid-3’s) when his new girlfriend taught him the health benefits of yoga. After that, he had a career renaissance and was Cy Young great again, and now pitching into his 40’s.

He will undoubtedly share this with his new teammates at some point, maybe even do yoga at the park, and maybe some of the young players will try it and extend their careers as they reach their 30’s. A stretch, certainly, but a hopeful possibility.

JoeyVottoIsGoneMember since 2016
1 year ago

What’s one stretch? I assumed yoga involved lots of stretches.

obsessivegiantscompulsive
1 year ago

And for all the complaints I see about lack of action and the need for more to win, I see a pretty solid team.

Cy Youngish ace in Webb leads the way.

Ray as a solid #2, yes, has to still prove it, but he has won a Cy before and he showed signs of that in his return, as well as the rust of being out of practice so long. Plus most TJS pitchers start being their old self in their second season back.

Verlander is a solid to good #3 if he regress to the mean and deliver an xERA in the high 3’s.

Even if he doesn’t, Harrison had a high 3’s ERA until the end of the season, which is great in the #4 spot, good in #3, if he can repeat, or ideally take a step forward in his second full season, like Cain and Lincecum did, and start being the ace his minors suggested.

Hicks is a wildcard, but every team has a wildcard #5 SP, that is, if they even have a solid #5 option. He basically only had a month of great starting, then a month of good, before petering out. Who knows.

But the Giants have good options. With Birdsong hopefully figuring out stuff in AAA, he could be a midseason upgrade like Bumgarner was. And there’s others who could be adequate: Winn, Beck, Small, Black, Whisenhunt, Roupp, Bivens, Seymour, Choate, McDonald.

The bullpen looks solid with Walker leading the group, perhaps great with Hicks.

The lineup has many solid average hitters. Adames, Chapman, Ramos, Fitzgerald, Lee, Yaz, LaMonte, and I still think Bailey will bust out one season and put together a good hitting season from start to end. With a good to great pitching staff, an average hitting team can win 85-90 games. And then there’s the tantalizing possibility of Eldridge, will he hit an obstacle or keep on rising?

A good season is not a certainty at all, definitely, but a strong possibility if the players do what they have shown that they are capable of, with some extra upside for those who learned to be more consistently producing.

Either way, another transitional season for the Giants, much like the period before 2010. It could be like 2008 or a rise to 2009. It should be interesting.

obsessivegiantscompulsive
1 year ago

For all the complaints about Zaidi, this offseason is pretty much what he would have done, had Posey not decided to step into the job now.

Zaidi knows that he can get free agents by adding an extra year or zero, getting Correa and Lee with much bigger contracts than projected. And that’s what Posey did with Adames, he got one more year than projected by most. You could also say the same about Chapman, as Posey is given credit for his signing, and with this contract, he has six years with the Giants, one more than projected last offseason.

And signing a pitcher like Verlander, for one year of possibility (and per Savant analytics, for a 3.78 xERA) is the one year shot deals Zaidi has been doing from the beginning with Drew Pomeranz, and to perfection with Gausman and Rodon.

As I’ve been saying at other media sites, Posey isn’t a total repudiation of Zaidi’s efforts, there has not been any extreme house cleaning, other than Zaidi and Putila (and the analytics lead, though it’s arguable since he left with Putila). Almost everyone is where they were before (or better).

The only real complaint has been about players preparation and mental toughness, and that led to the hiring of Randy Winn to a new position in the FO org structure. And a veiled complaint, looking for scouting experience at GM, and the promotion of Minasian (a la Sabean, this is reminiscent of the hiring of Quinn and Sabean, with the goal of promoting Sabean to take over everything when he was ready. Posey is in the Quinn role).

And this move to hire Posey made me happy because I want to see what the prospects turn out to be, but hiring an outsider would have led to a stark rebuilding process and the jettisoning of personnel and prospects, ie chaos.

boomstickMember since 2024
1 year ago

when his new girlfriend taught him the health benefits of yoga.”

America has not sufficiently appreciated Ms. Upton’s body of work.

Baseball RandyMember since 2017
1 year ago

As a follower of the Giants, I believe firing Farhan was a mistake and I view Buster Posey, the best catcher of the past decade and a half, even more skeptically than Baumann. I think this move is fine considering the pitching market and the state of starting pitching these days. I also think the Giants are in deep shit if they keep letting good front office people go and rely on scouts. Farhan left the team in a much better position than most fans imagine and then most farm system ratings think. Here’s hoping Verlander has a second late career bounce back.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  Baseball Randy

So it’s just the fans and the analysts and the results that say Zaidi’s tenure was a failure?

ryanzimmermanhofMember since 2024
1 year ago

“…complaining about both the food and the portion size”
Bars.

KeithMember since 2024
1 year ago

I like the signing. Verlander’s ceiling was so high in the past he has a bit of room to fall and still be slightly above average. This is what HOFers do; they last a long time and can be merely good to decent for a long, long time. I’ve mentioned before, but if I were a player, you’d have to drag my rotting carcass off the diamond before I’d retire. Dude is only 41, he’s got another 40+ years to be retired.
There are always snarky comments where Ms. Upton is concerned, but ideally she seems to be the perfect partner for someone who would understand about aging careers and an evolving work situation.
I’ve no doubt Justin has the full support of partner and family regarding extending his playing career whilst he still can.
In that park, with that left side of the IF, he’s going to get a bit of assistance to hopefully post some solid numbers and keep adding to that HOF resume.

obsessivegiantscompulsive
1 year ago
Reply to  Keith

Also a Gold Glove catcher whose forte is framing significantly more extra strikes than any other catcher in the majors. Snell is going to miss that in LA, and start walking more again, like he’s prone to.

Last edited 1 year ago by obsessivegiantscompulsive
Youppi!
1 year ago

and Corbin probably won’t even get a $2m guarantee. he’ll be settling for a minor league invite.

PC1970Member since 2024
1 year ago

As a Tigers fan, I hate this signing..because I really wanted JV back in Detroit.

The Tigers brass much really feel that Cobb is going to be better than JV, because for the same $$, if the performance is the same, the salutary effects of bringing back Verlander make a better signing for them.

CC AFCMember since 2016
1 year ago

This was the kind of thing I was worried about when the Giants signed Posey. Him signing guys he remembers being good

carterMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  CC AFC

Verlander had some bad luck last year, and was still around 1.5 war pace over 200 ip. Now we don’t expect 200 IP, but I could certainly see him hitting his projection, with some upside. Don’t think this is a bad signing at all.

LMOTFOTEMember since 2017
1 year ago

Love the MBA’ey comment. Corporate world is the same. I asked ChatGPT to write some business objectives for a company in my industry and you wouldn’t have been able to tell it apart from what our COO gave us. If everyone does things the same way then the deepest pockets will win. I live in Michigan and Dan Campbell has been such a breath of fresh air. Because he does things his own way and yeah sometimes it is crazy but sometimes it’s just zigging when the other guy thinks you’re going to zag. Campbell makes it work.