What Do You Get the Team That Has Everything? Relievers

Jayne Kamin-Oncea-Imagn Images

Look, I get it. You’re up in arms about the Roki Sasaki deal. The rich got richer and we’re all tired of the Dodgers signing every free agent (even you, Dodgers fans) — can they at least make it seem like it’s a level playing field? If that’s how you’ve been feeling this week, though, I’ve got some bad news for you, because I think the two moves the Dodgers have made since signing Sasaki might be bigger deals for 2025. Over the weekend, they signed the top reliever on the market, Tanner Scott. Now, they’re reportedly working on an agreement with Kirby Yates. As Yates’ signing is still pending a physical and has yet to be finalized, let’s cover Scott first, then ruminate on Yates at the end.

Scott’s deal, for four years and $72 million, befits an elite reliever, and that’s exactly what he is. He’s compiled a 2.04 ERA (2.53 FIP) across 150 innings over the last two years, using a lights-out slider and excellent fastball in roughly equal measure. We’re not talking about smoke and mirrors here; both of our pitch models think his fastball is one of the best handful in the game. His gaudy swinging strike rates provide supporting evidence. He sits 96-98 mph and touches 100. Sure, he walks his fair share of batters, but he’s a reliever – that’s just part of the bargain you accept sometimes.

If you’ll recall, the Dodgers leaned heavily on their bullpen in the 2024 postseason. Some of that was because of injuries to the starting rotation, but plenty of it was by choice. The Dodgers assembled a unit with four late-game options, and they used those options aggressively and opportunistically. Best opposing hitter up in the sixth inning? Send in a closer. Starter in a jam and the game on the line earlier than you expected? Send in a closer. Save situation? Fine, sure, we have a few left over anyway, send in a closer.

The four pitchers I’m referring to – Michael Kopech, Blake Treinen, Evan Phillips, and Alex Vesia – are all still on the Dodgers. Brusdar Graterol will be back in the second half of next year. The starting rotation is so full of stars that young pitchers like Gavin Stone, River Ryan, Bobby Miller, and Emmet Sheehan will spend time as relievers too. This was already a stacked bullpen.

Why add Scott, then? It comes down to reliability. Relievers just aren’t predictable from one year to the next in the same way that most other players are. Kopech was amazing in his half-season in Los Angeles, but he has extended stretches where he can’t find the strike zone, and he’s only a year removed from being one of the worst pitchers in baseball as a starter. He’s hardly a stable closer. Treinen, who I had as the second-best reliever on the board before he returned to the Dodgers, is 37 and has serious injury issues in his rearview mirror. Phillips and Vesia have been steadier, but you could have said that about Daniel Hudson or Ryan Brasier in past years, and they fell off quickly.

You don’t win next year’s World Series with this year’s bullpen, and the Dodgers are taking that message to heart. Their postseason bullpen plan was a revelation, a clear place where they got an advantage over the competition by sheer volume of relief options. Heading into 2025 with the same options a year older would feel like going backwards, and that’s just not something the Dodgers do these days.

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It’s silly to consider what a playoff bullpen might look like on January 21. Pitchers and catchers haven’t even reported to spring training yet; there’s a long time for career arcs to bend upward or downward before October. But I’m pretty sure that the Dodgers are going to be in the playoffs, and I’m pretty sure that Scott, if healthy, will be their best lefty option.

Los Angeles’ bullpen threw 82 innings during last year’s playoff run. If the team plans on winning another World Series, a similar workload is likely in store. The 2024 iteration worked because the offense was able to take the pressure off more than a few times, letting low-leverage relievers cover the innings that the top quartet couldn’t handle. But even then, everyone was stretched to their limit. Adding Scott to the mix just makes the tolerances wider; now they can handle one more reliever injury, or pitch in a handful of extra close games, without running out of impact arms.

Here’s another way of thinking about it: For all the hype around the Dodgers’ rotation, I’m not exactly convinced they’ll all be throwing into the seventh inning in the playoffs. Sasaki is changing continents and leagues coming off of injury. Blake Snell and Tyler Glasnow aren’t exactly famous for being workhorses. Shohei Ohtani is returning from an injury of his own, and the team will surely treat him with kid gloves on the mound. Yoshinobu Yamamoto only pitched into the sixth in one of his four playoff starts.

Particularly for a team like the Dodgers, building to avoid risk is an excellent decision. The bullpen not repeating its 2024 success was an obvious risk; it’s hardly hyperbole to say that the Dodgers have gone as far as their bullpen can take them in plenty of Octobers. Given that they already had pretty much everything else – a constellation of stars led by the best player in the game – and given that they’re basically a lock to make the playoffs, I think that shoring up the bullpen by adding the best reliever available was an excellent decision.

The terms of the deal don’t change my view on that much at all. Scott’s four-year, $72 million pact has the usual Dodgers bells and whistles – a $20 million signing bonus and $21 million deferred on an as-yet unannounced schedule. It’s not a bargain signing or a wild overpay. It’s reasonable top-of-the-market money for the best free agent at his position. That doesn’t mean it’s going to be amazing in year four – the odds are against a reliever fighting regression and remaining elite for that long. Four years ago, Scott was struggling in Baltimore and Kenley Jansen was holding things down at Dodger Stadium. Liam Hendriks, Jonathan Loáisiga, and Giovanny Gallegos were top-five relievers by WAR. Life comes at you fast in the late innings.

So be it. Contracts for relievers are all about concentrating value in the present, and Scott undoubtedly provides that. He’ll almost certainly perform well in the regular season, or as the Dodgers call it, warm-ups. He’ll be the tip of the spear of one of the best bullpens in the playoffs. That will probably be true next year as well. The rest is just gravy. When you’re built around stars like the Dodgers are, you can always just go sign the next Tanner Scott if the current one declines in the future.

Want proof that reliever dominance is fickle? Look no further than Yates, also reportedly heading to Los Angeles. In 2018 and 2019, Yates was the best reliever in baseball. That’s not hyperbole, or me playing fast and loose with “best.” He was just the best. He pitched 123.2 innings, and his 1.67 ERA was the best in the game by a lot. His 1.93 FIP was perhaps even more impressive. He struck out nearly 40% of his opponents, barely walked anyone, and generated grounders and popups when his opponents managed to get a bat on the ball. Then he spent the next four years throwing just 70 innings, with a 4.93 FIP and negative wins above replacement.

Now, were injuries a big part of the story here? Definitely. Yates only threw 11.1 innings from 2020-22, and he was rusty when returning to full-time service in 2023, running a 15% walk rate that was nearly double his previous career average. He didn’t return to his dominant 2018-19 form until 2024, but he returned with a vengeance. His 1.17 ERA was the best mark of his career (narrowly beating out a 1.19 mark in 2019 — seriously, he was ridiculous at his peak). He again struck out more than a third of the batters he faced. His splitter looked more natural and more deceptive than it had in years.

The risk with Yates is staring you in the face – he was alternately unavailable and unexciting for four of the last five years. But the upside is too – in three of the last seven years, he’s been basically unhittable. I think his signing, assuming it gets done, is just more of the same idea as the Scott signing, albeit with different risks. With Scott, the biggest “risk” is the tail end of the deal. With Yates, the risk is in what you’ll get in 2025. But the reward in both cases is the same: a lights out bullpen that Dave Roberts can summon at will in sticky situations next fall.

These deals undoubtedly come with headaches for the Dodgers in the regular season. They’re stocking their bullpen with veterans while also running a six-man rotation, which is going to create some roster pressure. For one, it’s going to make running a bullpen shuttle more difficult – as best as I can tell, the only Dodgers reliever with an option remaining is Vesia. But realistically, some of these guys will miss time with injury, easing the crunch, and “we have too many relievers” is a better and easier problem to solve than “we don’t have enough relievers.” It’s worth noting, and some enterprising teams might be able to snatch up a Dodgers reliever on the cheap when the team wants to call up reinforcements, but it’s a small price to pay for a bullpen of this caliber.

The final verdict? It’s easy to understand why the Dodgers are working on building an even better bullpen after watching the way they managed the 2024 playoffs. If you’re a Dodgers fan, you should love this deal. The Dodgers aren’t just blindly throwing money at their roster – they’re throwing money at their roster while thinking critically about where it will be most valuable. Meanwhile, plenty of their prospective rivals are thinking about the most effective way to shed salary or defray future commitments. Snell and Sasaki might be the headliners, but Scott and Yates are the free agents that most clearly demonstrate how the Dodgers are leaning into their position as baseball’s juggernaut.





Ben is a writer at FanGraphs. He can be found on Bluesky @benclemens.

66 Comments
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aklangMember since 2016
1 year ago

Totally fine with the Dodgers running an operation built to win.

Smiling PolitelyMember since 2018
1 year ago
Reply to  aklang

I moved to LA as a kid in 1990 and had to wait until Dodger Legend Jose Lima arrived to end the postseason drought. I’m perfectly happy seeing the Dodgers exceed the 90s Atlanta teams that so often dominated LA, and my question for DET, et al, would be: what are you doing with that revenue sharing $?

MikeSMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  aklang

Would be nice if more than half a dozen other teams did the same, but it isn’t the Dodgers fault if they won’t.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago

I can’t be too annoyed about the Dodgers signing Sasaki but signing the best reliever to a $72M deal (only like the 7th biggest contract on the roster) to do a closer by committee is like peak Evil Empire stuff. A real killjoy.

chazzycatMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Na, Sasaki is way worse. He is just so young and laughably affordable, he’s going to help the Dodgers bridge to the next generation, allowing them to have their cake and eat it too. 3 years at rookie salary!!!

hopbittersMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I say this sadly, as a Yankee fan and a Dodger not-a-fan, but the Dodgers are spending their ridiculous piles of money a lot better than the Yankees ever did and while it’s probably frustrating for a lot of people, they’re also playing within the framework they were given.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  hopbitters

Much like the Yankees in the Evil Empire days, there is nothing inherently “wrong” about what they are doing. It’s all by the book. It’s also unbelievably irritating.

mikejuntMember
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Is it irritating that they .. sign players who want to play with them for numbers those players find acceptable?

Or is it annoying that no one else seems to want these guys at what are overall reasonable/good prices?

Or is it annoying that the players are choosing the Dodgers over similar amounts elsewhere?

I get why you might not like the situation, but its not exactly the Dodgers ‘fault’ they signed Roki Sasaki – its a decision he made while leaving money on the table (others could have offered more).

None of the contracts is unreasonable or inflated – they’re market rates. So why aren’t other teams offering similar or more? Why are players choosing the Dodgers every time?

They’re not actually the ones displaying a lot of agency here. They’re just signing people who want to sign with them, sometimes for less.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  mikejunt

It’s irritating that the Dodgers have zero resource constraints. No one deal is irritating, it’s the fact that they can do ALL of them.

mikejuntMember
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I don’t think the Dodgers are operating in the same economy as the rest of the league anymore, because what they’re doing now is transformative stuff. I think that in 25 years or so we’re going to look back at now as the time when the Dodgers made themselves into an internationally recognized institution (ala Manchester United or Real Madrid) and that they’re going to bring the internationalization of MLB that it has been gesturing towards with things like the London Series to actuality. They’ve cornered the market on a country with 1/3 the US population and where baseball is more culturally prominent (and has less competition) than it does domestically.

I suspect that the Dodgers’ actual franchise value is now higher than that of the Yankees, and that they’ll be doubling the Yankees up within the next year or two. Now, that won’t ever be reflected in a sale and it may not even be reflected in a Forbes evaluation because they can’t sell and retain it (b/c Ohtani’s got his key personnel clause for Mark Walter!). The Dodgers are going to expand MLB’s reach internationally in a way its’ always dreamed of and never been able to achieve.

The upside at least is that baseball just doesn’t have guarantees. I’d still take the field in the postseason; I expect them to lose more LDS than they win World Series.

And in the long run, the whole league will benefit. In the shorter term, they’re going to reap a lot of that reward. But it also wouldn’t happen without all of this – Ohtani plus the Japanese stars, the American stars for them to appreciate too, the winning, etc.

It’d be a bigger problem in something like the NBA where having so many top talents ensures you’re in the finals every year. But in MLB? They’ll have some amazing regular seasons, I wouldn’t be surprised if they had 116+, but the postseason is not friendly.

johansantana17Member since 2026
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

If there were a team with no resource constraints, it’d be the Mets. Guggenheim is still out to run a business and make a healthy profit, but Cohen views his team as less of an investment and more of a fun project.

synco
1 year ago
Reply to  mikejunt

The million or so Sasaki left on the table doesn’t really matter to him. The money he’s going to make in endorsements by virtue of being a Dodger, instead of say a Blue Jay or a Padre, is more than going to make up for it. No team could really pay him that much money (from a baseball perspective). The ancillary benefits are the entire story of this deal.

The one thing that truly matters in regard to Sasaki’s prospective earnings is getting to his second contract. And getting there doesn’t really have anything to do with any team he signs with.

A Salty ScientistMember since 2024
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I realize the Dodgers print money so it’s not a huge deal if it doesn’t work out well, but 4 years for a reliever with control issues is nuts to me.

johansantana17Member since 2026
1 year ago

It’s actually less than the market rate for top RP in free agency. Edwin Diaz got 5/$102m two years ago. Yes Diaz was probably better than Scott is now, but Diaz got another year at a higher AAV and it was two years ago. All the way back in 2016, Chapman got 5/$86m and Jansen got 5/$80m.

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
1 year ago

The Dodgers are playing their hand well, but the deck they’re drawing from doesn’t have any cards under a 10. Way to exploit that crushing revenue advantage, I guess.

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

Their advantage isn’t more than the Angels, Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, Giants, Blue Jays, Cubs, Astros or Marlins. I don’t know what to say about the White Sox and A’s.

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

…I mean, Marlins? Really? Curious how you chose to include them.

Smiling PolitelyMember since 2018
1 year ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

NBA Miami FA signing: LeBron James
Soccer Miami FA signing: Lionel Messi
MLB Miami FA signing: Eric Wagaman

Gonna go ahead and feel comfortable that the problem isn’t with *Miami* the locale not being a draw or an investment base as much as it is with “Miami” the franchise being run by a couple of hamsters in a trenchcoat to extract profit with the least expensive outlay possible

mikejuntMember
1 year ago

Miami itself may not be a massive metro, but Florida’s one of the most populous states in the US and its a hotbed of baseball development and yet somehow both teams in it are run on shoestring budgets and cries of poverty.

I guess 80% of Floridians are just Braves fans.

johansantana17Member since 2026
1 year ago
Reply to  mikejunt

Floridians are Yankees and Mets fans.

david k
1 year ago

Revenues are different for different sports. Basketball is an extremely poor example, due to how the TV contracts are structured. Plus a NBA team only has to pay for, what, 12 players on its roster?

synco
1 year ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

People seem to think that Miami is this huge wealthy city because they’ve seen South Beach on TV.

It most emphatically is not. It’s a small, not very wealthy town once you get away from SB and the handful of luxury islands.

Western Metal SupplyMember since 2021
1 year ago

Sickening. They’re a running luxury tax payroll number of $370M+? As a Padres fan, I honestly have nothing to look forward to this season. Baseball is just mirroring society, the middle class just gets ravaged while the rich just get richer. Amazing stuff!

Last edited 1 year ago by Western Metal Supply
David Klein
1 year ago

Mlb owners are all billionaires right? It is not the Dodgers fault that Bob Nutting is a deadbeat, who will not spend no matter what.

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  David Klein

A billion is different from ten or a hundred billion. But the key difference is that the Dodgers are profitable while doing this, unless you really believe that the investment partnership that owns them is eating ongoing operating losses (fat chance). The Yankees could do this but aren’t. The Mets are doing their own version. No other teams have the revenue base. Could they spend more than they do? In many cases definitely yes. But they couldn’t spend like this.

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

Ten teams could have the same revenue base if they did a better job generating revenue

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

Based on what? I’d like to see the Marlins go back to 1930 and start building their fanbase when baseball was the only game in town, but it seems like a significant technical challenge.

Last edited 1 year ago by cowdisciple
mikejuntMember
1 year ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

I think the biggest thing going on here is that Shohei Ohtani’s deferred contract is *net revenue positive* (estimates have him around 70-75m new revenue this year) and any team *could* have given him that contract because of that

And its driving a lot of the Dodgers’ behavior right now.

david k
1 year ago
Reply to  mikejunt

Plus how much the team probably rakes in just on advertising of Japanese products alone. When Ohtani was on the Angels, I was able to see firsthand at Angels Stadium just how many ads for Japanese products were all over the place. You don’t see that at practically any other stadium. That’s when it became obvious to me that the Angels must be making a ton of money this way that they wouldn’t have had if Ohtani wasn’t on the team. Now the Dodgers can multiply that. Supply and demand in advertising for limited space will jack up the ad revenues substantially.

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

I’ll also offer Tampa Bay as an example. They’ve been better on the field than they have any right to be given their limited budget (and for a long time!), but it hasn’t done much of anything to improve their revenue streams.

david k
1 year ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

I see two sides to the Tampa example. Yes, they have been VERY successful for quite some time, but they do it by constantly churning players. The fanbase gets tired of seeing their favorite players there for only a few years and then leave. Yes, they do get new players that could be their favorite, but I think we all understand why that’s not the same. It just makes it harder to emotionally invest in the team. Plus, despite their success, they still haven’t won the WS and have only been there ONCE. It’s easy to see why they would be disillusioned. I just wonder if they could have put together a run like the Red Sox or Giants have had in recent years, with maybe 3 titles to their name, would their situation be a whole lot different? Soon we will see if the new stadium makes a lot of difference or not – that was always one of the excuses. I suspect we’ll see an attendance boost for a couple of years, but after that?

Smiling PolitelyMember since 2018
1 year ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

to say nothing of the many real-world parties that would be happy to invest guggenheim-levels of money into a franchise if they weren’t hoarded by the world’s laziest rich people

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

This is an absurd statement. What is the causal mechanism where spending more gets you more resources? Mostly it is winning. But wins are zero sum. If one team wins more games, another loses them. All that this does it that it makes it harder for any one team to pursue this path successfully.

Smiling PolitelyMember since 2018
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

There are many, many examples of investment creating profit, whether it’s R&D, speculation (real estate, etc.). What’s absurd about this? Why do teams have farm systems? Come on, now.

This is a global sport and market, and the Dodgers are wealthy not (just) because they are in LA, but because they spent the last few decades investing in other markets (e.g., Japan) was part of a strategy to increase their capability. KC has managed to maintain a global identity through the Chiefs, and the Royals signed Witt. Being slow, unimaginative, and relatively poor at the sports owner level is a choice, not an inherited trait.

Consider how a franchise like Seattle wasted the opportunities it had in Japan with Ichiro over the last decade or so. Does anyone think the Mariners have a strategy in place? Is that because they lack resources to invest or simply don’t care because their goal is to luck into the 3rd playoff slot?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago

1) Signing Ohtani to win an entire country’s fans on board is not a reproducible mechanism for winning. Only one team can sign Ohtani!
2) The Dodgers were able to do most of this beforehand, it’s just at comic levels now. And that’s because they have a massive TV deal, which was absolutely not anything the Dodgers did strategically (the franchise was coming off the McCourt years, where there was no strategy).

Gunther042
1 year ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

That’s ridiculous, how many other teams could sign a 25 year, 8.3 billion dollar Tv Deal that pays out 334 million annually?

Smiling PolitelyMember since 2018
1 year ago
Reply to  Gunther042

And what are all the other teams doing with their cut of the share the Dodgers send them?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

There are a lot of comments that get thrown around in this comment section about how other teams could spend more. But the idea that this would reduce payroll disparities is bad logic. If every team spent up to their profits the payroll disparity would be enormous. Teams like the Rays, Brewers, and Twins would spend another $30M or $40M, and the Yankees and Red Sox and Dodgers would spend another $230M or $240M.

mikejuntMember
1 year ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Id be more inclined to buy this argument if there weren’t multiple teams who don’t even spend their revenue sharing total intake on player salaries, which they’re supposed to.

Those guys don’t even spend a dime of their own money on player salary. Its more than 30 or 40m, because some of those teams are 20m below their revenue sharing dollars!

Its supposed to go into the roster!

Yes, there are revenue disparities. But there are mechanisms in place to mitigate (not remove) them, and *a bunch of teams just pocket the money as profit*. And then pocket any profits on their own non-shared revenue.

No, teams cannot spend equally. But you don’t give the cheapest teams enough credit, because they’re getting 70m revenue sharing payments and running whole rosters that cost less.

Roster Resource here on FG currently projects 1 team below 70m 2025 salary and 4 more below 80. If total revenue sharing is 70-something million, your theory is that those teams are only making 20-25m in total profit in their whole operation *without* counting any player salaries.

if that is the case, everyone involved in those businesses should lose their jobs.

The absolute floor for player salaries (non-extreme circumstances) should look like the Royals or Rockies – around 120-125m.

I will give a pass to the Rays (their stadium just got obliterated and I imagine that will impact ticket revenue) and the As (their relocation is stupid, but obviously has produced huge drops in attendance and TV revenue).

Neither Miami or Tampa are enormous metro areas, but Florida’s one of the most populous states and one where they play enormous amounts of baseball year round and somehow it’s got 2 teams who spend less on player salaries combined than the Seattle Mariners.

Last edited 1 year ago by mikejunt
sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  mikejunt

There are a lot of bad owners out there but there is a pretty hard cap on how far you can go with it even if you commit to putting resources out there. If you do literally everything for decades as a small market team you end up like the Cardinals. If the Cardinals spent all of their profits they would be in the $210M range. If the Dodgers spent all the way up to their profits, the Cardinals probably couldn’t even get their payroll to that level because no one would take their money.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  David Klein

The team that this guy is a fan of spent the team into insolvency!

CC AFCMember since 2016
1 year ago

Nothing to look forward to, with Tatis and Merrill, machado, cease, yu, king, arraez? In the wild card era? That’s some real whiny, loser mentality.

david k
1 year ago
Reply to  CC AFC

Well, they are still significantly inferior to the Dodgers, and given their team’s history, it’s understandable why a Padres fan will be all doom and gloom, even if they have a chance to do what the Dbacks did just two years ago.

Smiling PolitelyMember since 2018
1 year ago

I’m old enough to remember when the Dodgers bankrupt owner got divorced and the team was sold into receivership. This, too, shall pass.

C BeisbolMember since 2026
1 year ago

“As a Padres fan, I honestly have nothing to look forward to this season.”

The Padres look to be a good team with some star players and interesting young players.

If you can’t look forward to that, you could look forward to the games against the Dodgers to see Ohtani, Betts, Freeman, Sasaki, Yamamoto, Kershaw and crew.

david k
1 year ago
Reply to  C Beisbol

I am not a Padres fan, but it doesn’t really take a lot of effort to see why a Padres fan feels the way he does, given their team history and all….

ajake57Member since 2019
1 year ago

Provided the aforementioned 6-man rotation is the goal, this doesn’t seem to me like a strategy they could attempt to execute without Shohei on the roster, not taking up one of their 13 rosterable pitcher spots. If you’re not going to do the reliever shuttle then you better carry 8 of them.

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  ajake57

He doesn’t count towards the 13

jtricheyMember since 2021
1 year ago

The person I keep coming back to on the Dodgers is Dustin May. I think he could be one of the top 5 relievers in all of baseball if they stuck him in the pen. This pen could be absolutely sick.

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
1 year ago
Reply to  jtrichey

They’ll probably need him at some point

puddleMember since 2017
1 year ago
Reply to  jtrichey

Yep. With Ohtani, Kershaw, Sheehan, Graterol and Kopech all out to start the year, and Stone and Ryan out for the whole year, May’s versatility as a starter or a reliever is actually a genuine need for the team. It does make Grove rather expendable though. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him moved in a trade.

computersBaseball
1 year ago

The combined signing bonus + deferred salary approach is basically a CBT dodge, right? Not saying the Dodgers shouldn’t do it or other teams shouldn’t emulate it, but they should really alter that accounting rule, otherwise the CBT is closer to meaningless. Accounting loopholes are what we all watch baseball for right.

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
1 year ago

Not sure why you’re getting downvoted, but no, this is not a real thing and there is no loophole. Although clearly the CBT is not an effective tool for promoting competitive balance (and that was never its purpose, MLB messaging aside).

Last edited 1 year ago by cowdisciple
liveatthesyndergaardenMember since 2017
1 year ago

my understanding is it’s more of a state income tax dodge for the players

johansantana17Member since 2026
1 year ago

It is not. It’s all done for income tax efficiency to maximize the player’s net pay. Teams in CA and NY have been doing this all offseason, and Toronto just did it with Santander too. Wage income (including salary, signing bonus and deferred salary) is taxed by the jurisdictions where the player resides at the time of receiving the payment. So for signing bonus, that’s wherever the player lives at the time of signing the contract, and most players live in warmer places in the south and southwest, many in Florida (no state income tax), Texas (no state income tax), or Arizona (flat 2.5% state income tax). By comparison, CA’s top rate is 13.3% and NYC combined state and city top rate is 14.8%. But he only pays those rates on salary received while playing for the team. By the time the player is receiving deferrals, he probably either went to a team in a lower tax or no tax state or retired in a lower tax or no tax state.

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
1 year ago

The better they run their team the more I want to root for them. Same with the Mets. Marlins, A’s, White Sox, Angels…not so much.

MikeSMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

As a lifelong White Sox fan, I completely agree with this statement.

hahigginsMember since 2018
1 year ago

Do we know that the Dodgers are going with the six-man rotation? Or is that just widely speculated?

jtricheyMember since 2021
1 year ago
Reply to  hahiggins

Don’t know if they will announce it as such, but it basically will be. They quite honestly went 6 man rotation in 2024 already just nobody realized it. They had 9 starts (by starters) on 4 days rest all year. They didn’t even do 4 days rest in the playoffs. I think they are done going 4 days rest for good. That doesn’t always need a 6th starter though to accomplish it. I think whoever is considered the 6th starter would get 20 starts or so if everyone stayed healthy.

myartman
1 year ago
Reply to  hahiggins

Speculation. They’re running a 7-man rotation.

A Salty ScientistMember since 2024
1 year ago
Reply to  hahiggins

Hasn’t Ohtani been in a 6-man his whole MLB career when pitching?

MRDXolMember since 2021
1 year ago

The CBA-imposed franchise financial rules of MLB are in danger of turning MLB into something like the state of European soccer. TL;DR yes every owner is a billionaire. But some have vastly, vastly more ‘cash’ to spend at will than others.

The Dodgers are a subsidiary of the Guggenheim group, which manages $300B of assets. They can spend all they want as cash— so long as Guggenheim is happy to do so. As finance considers increases in asset valuation as good as operating income, they can be officially ‘in the red’ forever… so long as the Dodgers’ franchise value keeps going up + they aren’t taking on debt, just ‘spending’ cash from Guggenheim’s other holdings. Steve Cohen, too, appears to be spending his personal immense wealth on the Mets as an ego trip… but he might actually be investing it in this manner.

So ownership groups need to have huge wealth beyond baseball franchise value. This is not true of, for example, Jerry Reinsdorf: MLB’s longest-tenured owner. His $2.1B net worth is >99% his stakes in the White Sox (19% of $2B) and Bulls (40% of $5B). He is the controlling partner in both, but he doesn’t have any notable wealth independent of those stakes.

If ol’ miser Jerry wants to spend beyond revenue, he will have to take out a loan. That is, however, fairly tightly restricted: MLB permits maximum debt per team of 8x operating income (profit, if positive), with a ‘cushion’ wherein the first $100M of debt doesn’t count. This used to be much more loosely enforced– then the Cubs, Dodgers, and Rangers all filed for bankruptcy in 2009-11, and Selig cracked down on enforcing the rule (it used to be 10x, too!). There is some leeway for contracts already on the books if, for some reason, revenue does not increase as expected with an intended period of playoff contention.

This is why most teams in baseball are perpetually in rebuild-contend-teardown cycles: really, they are debt accumulation and pay-off cycles. Let’s say the White Sox had ~$115M in debt after the 2022 season, wherein per Forbes, they finished -$53M in the red (included in the debt figure here). Their revenue for ’23 increased +$18M, and their payroll dropped $9M; if we assume their other operating costs increased $2M, they would’ve been at -$28M for ’23, for -$143M total debt, -$43M of which counts against the ceiling, via the $100M ‘cushion’.

(Forbes reports the White Sox actually were at -$28M for 2023, and their debt-to-value ratio was 7%, i.e. about $143M, for 2024: I’m not pulling numbers out of thin air.)

To be compliant for ’24, they’d have to increase operating income from -$28M to +$4.3M; ideally more, to pay off debt in order to borrow again in the future. Their ’24 revenue decreased an unknown amount, as it turns out fans hate it when you break the all-time loss record, and ended up cutting about $47M in payroll, putting them at no better than +$19M before some much-needed operating cost increases– hiring a new FO replete with lots of new analytics, scouting, and coaching personnel, plus building a new facility in the DR.

So yes, they do have to cut payroll drastically in 2025: the fan-driven revenue sure won’t be increasing much, but the league debt ceiling mandates they turn a profit. If they want to be competitive with high payrolls in the future, they need to pay off their extant debt.

FreshOJMember since 2025
1 year ago

All of this leaves me wondering if the 2025 Dodgers will set the full-season run differential record.

Broken BatMember since 2020
1 year ago

Phillips shut down with shoulder issue late last year; Kopech now having a firearm issue. I think the Dodgers must think there are real possible issues here. Also signed Treinen to a 2 year deal. It’s called insurance…. The adding of multiple RPs.

myartman
1 year ago

When your rotation is epic, you can optimize your bullpen usage. When your bullpen is epic, you can optimize your rotation usage. Having both at elite depth allows for a dynasty despite injuries. The Dodgers optimize pitchers like no other org – and have the surgeries to prove it. They have yet to figure out the ideal trade-off point of optimizing for velocity and spin without also optimizing for Tommy John surgeries. They know this but won’t say it — the Catch-22 of getting more quality out of your pitchers than your physiology allows. So they’re building in redundancy for all their arms bc they have the resources to approach the IL robustly, but also snowball vets for prospects if they still have that redundancy at the trade deadline.

drew_willyMember since 2020
1 year ago
Reply to  myartman

Some in their org have sort of said it.

I saw a December tweet from one of their player dev guys (Integrated Performance Coach Clayton Thompson) that said “If you could add 2-3 mph of velo this off season, but there’s a 10% chance you tear your UCL, you should take that trade EVERY SINGLE TIME if you’re in the minor leagues.”

He followed up with “From a pure statistics point of view the expected value of adding 2-3mph to a fastball in the minor leagues has got to be 750k on average of assets value. 10% of the time the player gets injured and sits out a year. Might come back better than that time off still? This is easy.”