2018 Trade Value: #21 to #30

(Photo: Keith Allison)
As is the annual tradition at FanGraphs, we’re using the week of the All-Star Game — while the industry pauses to take a metaphorical breather — to take stock of the top-50 trade assets in the sport. For more context on exactly what we’re trying to do here, see the honorable-mentions post linked at the top of the page.
For this post and the others in this series, I’ve presented a graphic (by way of the wizard Sean Dolinar) breaking down each player’s objective skill level (represented, in this case, by a five-year WAR projection from ZiPS), contract/team-control details, rank in last year’s series, and then year-by-year details of age/WAR/contract through 2023, although a couple players have control beyond those five years. For those readers who are partial to spreadsheets rather than blocks of text, I’ve also included all the players we’ve ranked so far are in grid format at the bottom of the post.
The ZiPS WAR forecasts did influence the rankings a bit: for players who were bunched together, it acted as an impartial tiebreaker of sorts, but the industry opinions I solicited drove the rankings.
With that said, let’s get to the next 10 spots on the Trade Value list this year.
| Five-Year WAR | +20.8 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2023 |
| Previous Rank | – |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2019 | 25 | +3.1 | Pre-Arb |
| 2020 | 26 | +4.0 | Pre-Arb |
| 2021 | 27 | +4.3 | Arb1 |
| 2022 | 28 | +4.6 | Arb2 |
| 2023 | 29 | +4.8 | Arb3 |
Ohtani was ticketed before the season to appear much higher than this, but some concern about an imperfect UCL has now turned to what most feel is an inevitable Tommy John surgery at some point during the course of his six controlled years. If you remove much of this year on the mound from his cost-controlled seasons, take away another 12-18 months for surgery, and add to that some uncertainty about whether the stuff/feel/stamina comes all the way back, and we’re now talking about three or four years of a premium but somewhat risky talent. If you look around, that’s roughly where he’s landed as far as comps. While the expectation of health has shifted south a bit since Opening Day, the evaluation of his talent has moved north a bit, both as a pitcher and hitter, following his uneven looks in spring training.
| Five-Year WAR | +22.5 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2021 |
| Previous Rank | #34 |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2019 | 26 | +4.6 | Arb2 |
| 2020 | 27 | +4.8 | Arb3 |
| 2021 | 28 | +4.6 | Arb3 |
Syndergaard is somewhat similar to Ohtani in terms of control/value: he offers about three-and-a-half years of a cost-controlled potential ace who also comes with some injury concerns. Ohtani, of course, is also a DH and the concern is likely elbow surgery. For Syndergaard, it’s a series of smaller injuries (lat, finger, bone chip in his elbow) that could become more serious as he gets older given how he hard throws. We know that velocity is the biggest broad predictor of arm trouble, so there’s always some risk with this type of pitcher, even with no injury history but, as covered in the Scherzer comment, these guys can also have an outsized impact in the most important parts of the year.
| Five-Year WAR | +17.8 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2022 |
| Previous Rank | #19 |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2019 | 27 | +3.7 | Pre-Arb |
| 2020 | 28 | +3.8 | Arb1 |
| 2021 | 29 | +3.6 | Arb2 |
| 2022 | 30 | +3.4 | Arb3 |
Much of the comment regarding Gary Sanchez from yesterday applies here to Contreras. Like Sanchez, Contreras is a dynamic young hitter who plays a premium position and has all the tools to catch but hasn’t mastered the softer skills. Framing metrics don’t tell the whole story here, but Contreras has gone from fringey to well below average by that measure this year and that has coincided with all the Cubs’ starting pitchers regressing at the same time. We can’t say for sure these are connected or necessarily say anything about Contreras, but it generally lines up with the profile he’s had for a while, which is that of an offensive catcher. As with Sanchez, it’s hard to walk away from this rare set of tools and performance — especially in light of Contreras’s youth — but there’s another catcher coming up on the list whom teams will target if they want the no-doubt slam-dunk best catcher in baseball.
| Five-Year WAR | +18.0 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2020 |
| Previous Rank | #18 |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2019 | 29 | +4.2 | Arb2 |
| 2020 | 30 | +3.9 | Arb3 |
We’re now getting into a group that includes four elite, short-term players who offer either one- or two-and-a-half years of control. Springer is at the back of this group since he’s having a bit of a down year, but much of that is due to ball-in-play misfortune and he’s still on pace for three wins and 26 bombs while playing an average center field. Springer has long been a scout favorite since the traits for which they seek in a cornerstone talent — size, athleticism, big tools, ability to make adjustments — it’s all here. Springer has performed as those scouts had hoped, has done it in the playoffs, is in the middle of his prime right now, and will probably age a little better than average. Like your high-school crush, he’s crazy not available right now, but this exercise is mostly hypothetical anyway, so go ahead and imagine him on your favorite team.
| Five-Year WAR | +23.3 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2023 |
| Previous Rank | #11 |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2019 | 23 | +3.7 | Pre-Arb |
| 2020 | 24 | +4.6 | Arb1 |
| 2021 | 25 | +4.8 | Arb2 |
| 2022 | 26 | +4.9 | Arb3 |
| 2023 | 27 | +5.3 | Arb4 |
Bellinger is an example of the player who was in the top tier of hyped hitting prospects that came up, set the league on fire, shot up these rankings, and got everyone super excited. He’s come back to Earth (and had an uneven playoff performance) since then, settling in as a very solid multi-year bet to perform but without the upside of other young players because of his offensive approach and lack of defensive upside. With five-and-a-half years of control remaining at 23 years old, however, age isn’t really a concern at all, and he’s above average defensively at first base, about average in the corner outfield. There’s tons to like here, but the general feeling from the sources with whom I spoke is that we’ve seen the best here. Jesus Aguilar– or Max Muncy-style breakouts also tend to play this position, so clubs won’t pay though the nose for Bellinger even if they’d love to have him.
| Five-Year WAR | +26.9 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2020 |
| Previous Rank | #37 |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2019 | 31 | +6.0 | Arb2 |
| 2020 | 32 | +5.7 | Arb3 |
Here’s the first of two short-term players who are both involved in rumors right now and have very comparable trade value. The concerns with deGrom are pretty minor: he’s somewhat slight of build, is 30 years old, and has Tommy John surgery in his rear view. That, along with only 2.5 years of control until free agency, are the only clear negatives, while the positives are pretty obvious: elite athleticism, increasing velocity two years in a row, a six-win pace this season, etc. A contender looking for an ace to impact their playoff run couldn’t do much better than deGrom, and there isn’t big money or a long-term commitment, but it’ll cost a premium prospect package.
| Five-Year WAR | +16.1 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2020 |
| Previous Rank | – |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2019 | 28 | +3.5 | Arb2 |
| 2020 | 29 | +3.4 | Arb3 |
The foreshadowing in the Contreras comment was leading you here, to Realmuto. The hole in his game a few years ago was framing, but scouts swore that he was smart, had premium athleticism, and would figure it out. In the meantime, he’s gone from well below average to solid average in that regard. Realmuto is 27, is pacing backstops offensively, and, according to Statcast, features the best sprint speeds at his position by a wide margin, backing up the claims of those scouts. The only reason he isn’t higher is there’s only 2.5 years of control here. That actually fits the timetable of contenders perfectly, though, because paying catchers for a longer period carries some risk due to the rigors of the position (see Lucroy, Jonathan).
Realmuto ended up a spot ahead of deGrom due to pitcher risk and the enormous gap between him and the next somewhat available option at the position, but it’s very close and reasonable people can differ on this. You could also argue that, like how an elite starting pitcher can affect things more in the playoffs, an elite catcher is affecting every single pitch and the whole staff.
| Five-Year WAR | +28.6 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2019 |
| Previous Rank | #21 |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2019 | 30 | +6.5 | $13.5 M |
Sale, like deGrom, is slight of build. And while he has no surgery in his past, he continues to possess a delivery that sure seems like it should cause problems. Pitchers are weird, Sale is no exception, and I suppose he’ll just throw 101 forever and eventually star in a baseball version of Space Jam, embarrassing aliens. Striking out humans must be boring to him by now.
Sale is now in the seventh year of a pretty incredible run, one in which he’s on pace to average 5.9 WAR, which feels like a number Jay Jaffe may end up quoting, if you catch my drift. There’s only 1.5 years of control left, but it’s for about $20 million for those 40-something regular-season starts and potentially two playoff runs. So, yeah, Sale is really good, and any team close to contention would pay retail in a heartbeat if he were close to available.
| Five-Year WAR | +19.7 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2022 |
| Previous Rank | #27 |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2019 | 27 | +4.2 | $9.8 M |
| 2020 | 28 | +4.2 | $12.5 M |
| 2021 | 29 | +3.8 | $14.0 M |
| 2022 | 30 | +3.9 | $15.0 M |
The hyperbole of the Sale comment doesn’t exist here: Yelich is really good, a premium price was recently paid for him, and there’s tons of cheap control as he’s entering his peak years. This is the type of building block every perennial contender needs to have, particularly in a smaller market, and this is the reason smaller-market clubs are aggressively offering extensions to any recent call-ups who have any kind of star-type upside.
| Five-Year WAR | +22.3 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2021 |
| Previous Rank | #49 |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2019 | 26 | +4.6 | Arb1 |
| 2020 | 27 | +4.7 | Arb2 |
| 2021 | 28 | +4.7 | Arb3 |
Concluding today’s group of players is a pitcher who combines the cheap long-term control of Yelich with the dominance, athleticism, potential playoff impact, and arrows-up trend of deGrom. Nola still hasn’t gotten past 168 innings in his career, and there have been some smaller, nagging issues that have impacted his durability. That said, Nola is the rare young pitcher with both plus stuff and advanced feel who comes with an air of “don’t worry, I’ll figure this out” going back to when he threw in the mid-80s as a high-school senior or made the SEC look silly while at LSU. At the end of this list, James Paxton has one fewer year of control and more demonstrated durability issues, so Nola’s dominance alone, short of a significant injury, will keep him on this list, despite the volatility of young arms.
| Rk | Pv | Player | Age | 2019 | 2020 | 2021 | 2022 | 2023 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 21 | 49 | Aaron Nola | 25 | +4.6 Arb1 |
+4.7 Arb2 |
+4.7 Arb3 |
||
| 22 | 27 | Christian Yelich | 26 | +4.2 $9.8 M |
+4.2 $12.5 M |
+3.8 $14.0 M |
+3.9 $15.0 M |
|
| 23 | 21 | Chris Sale | 29 | +6.5 $13.5 M |
||||
| 24 | – | J.T. Realmuto | 27 | +3.5 Arb2 |
+3.4 Arb3 |
|||
| 25 | 37 | Jacob deGrom | 30 | +6.0 Arb2 |
+5.7 Arb3 |
|||
| 26 | 11 | Cody Bellinger | 22 | +3.7 Pre-Arb |
+4.6 Arb1 |
+4.8 Arb2 |
+4.9 Arb3 |
+5.3 Arb4 |
| 27 | 18 | George Springer | 28 | +4.2 Arb2 |
+3.9 Arb3 |
|||
| 28 | 19 | Willson Contreras | 26 | +3.7 Pre-Arb |
+3.8 Arb1 |
+3.6 Arb2 |
+3.4 Arb3 |
|
| 29 | 34 | Noah Syndergaard | 25 | +4.6 Arb2 |
+4.8 Arb3 |
+4.6 Arb4 |
||
| 30 | – | Shohei Ohtani | 23 | +3.1 Pre-Arb |
+4.0 Pre-Arb |
+4.3 Arb1 |
+4.6 Arb2 |
+4.8 Arb3 |
| 31 | 12 | Gary Sanchez | 25 | +2.5 Pre-Arb |
+2.7 Arb1 |
+2.7 Arb2 |
+2.6 Arb3 |
|
| 32 | – | Eugenio Suarez | 26 | +4.2 $7.0 M |
+3.9 $9.2 M |
+3.6 $10.5 M |
+3.6 $11.0 M |
+3.3 $11.0 M |
| 33 | – | Mitch Haniger | 27 | +3.2 Pre-Arb |
+3.0 Arb1 |
+2.9 Arb2 |
+2.8 Arb3 |
|
| 34 | – | Rhys Hoskins | 25 | +3.2 Pre-Arb |
+3.4 Pre-Arb |
+3.3 Arb1 |
+3.2 Arb2 |
+3.0 Arb3 |
| 35 | – | Blake Snell | 25 | +3.2 Pre-Arb |
+3.4 Arb1 |
+3.4 Arb2 |
+3.1 Arb3 |
|
| 36 | 24 | Jose Altuve | 28 | +5.3 $16.5 M |
+4.8 $26.0 M |
+4.9 $26.0 M |
+4.5 $26.0 M |
+3.9 $26.0 M |
| 37 | – | Andrelton Simmons | 28 | +4.9 $13.0 M |
+4.7 $15.0 M |
|||
| 38 | 8 | Anthony Rizzo | 28 | +4.6 $11.0 M |
+4.4 $14.5 M |
+4.0 $14.5 M |
||
| 39 | – | Fernando Tatis, Jr. | 19 | +1.2 Pre-Arb |
+2.1 Pre-Arb |
+3.4 Pre-Arb |
+4.0 Arb1 |
+4.6 Arb2 |
| 40 | – | Walker Buehler | 23 | +2.8 Pre-Arb |
+3.0 Pre-Arb |
+3.0 Arb1 |
+2.8 Arb2 |
+2.9 Arb3 |
| 41 | 33 | Max Scherzer | 33 | +6.5 $35.0 M |
+5.6 $35.0 M |
+5.2 $35.0 M |
||
| 42 | 17 | Buster Posey | 31 | +4.9 $21.4 M |
+4.3 $21.4 M |
+3.6 $21.4 M |
+3.1 $22.0 M |
|
| 43 | HM | Odubel Herrera | 26 | +3.0 $5.0 M |
+2.8 $7.0 M |
+2.7 $10.0 M |
+2.7 $11.5 M |
+2.7 $12.5 M |
| 44 | – | Victor Robles | 21 | +2.5 Pre-Arb |
+2.8 Pre-Arb |
+3.1 Pre-Arb |
+3.1 Arb1 |
+3.2 Arb2 |
| 45 | HM | Rafael Devers | 21 | +2.5 Pre-Arb |
+3.2 Pre-Arb |
+3.8 Arb1 |
+3.9 Arb2 |
+3.8 Arb3 |
| 46 | – | Jose Berrios | 24 | +2.8 Pre-Arb |
+2.9 Arb1 |
+3.2 Arb2 |
+2.9 Arb3 |
|
| 47 | – | Trevor Bauer | 27 | +4.2 Arb2 |
+4.2 Arb3 |
|||
| 48 | 48 | James Paxton | 29 | +4.9 Arb2 |
+4.7 Arb3 |
|||
| 49 | – | Jean Segura | 28 | +3.0 $14.3 M |
+3.0 $14.3 M |
+2.9 $14.3 M |
+2.7 $14.3 M |
+2.4 $17.0 M |
| 50 | – | Kyle Tucker | 21 | +2.2 Pre-Arb |
+3.0 Pre-Arb |
+3.7 Pre-Arb |
+3.7 Arb1 |
+3.7 Arb2 |
Kiley McDaniel has worked as an executive and scout, most recently for the Atlanta Braves, also for the New York Yankees, Baltimore Orioles and Pittsburgh Pirates. He's written for ESPN, Fox Sports and Baseball Prospectus. Follow him on twitter.
I can’t imagine any team would give up more for Springer than Ohtani, barring a positional need in the outfield. Really surprised, I expected to see Ohtani in the top 5.
Tommy John surgery. Not every pitcher recovers.
As a full-time hitter he is somewhat comparable to Springer but as long as he’s pitching he won’t get the ABs.
As a full time hitter or as a healthy pitcher he might be worth more but as a halfsie…?
He may be an object lesson why teams don’t try the two way thing anymore.
Springer’s placement makes very little sense to me.
Thanks for these. But respectfully, I’m shocked at Ohtani at #30. Thought he’d be in conversation for #1. Even if he doesn’t pitch next year, he may still hit at an all star level. The idea that a team would rather have Realmuto over Otani is shocking to me. But divergent opinions is what makes this series so fun, I guess.
So much of his value is tied to the arm though. Depth Charts projects him for a 120 wRC+. If he’s a DH-only, that’s good but not too exciting (lines up with the projections for someone like Matt Olson), and you still risk losing a few months of the bat too if he needs arm surgery. I’d probably have him a little higher than 30, but nowhere near #1
I agree with most of what you said, but there are 2 places of disagreement:
1) Depth Charts may be really underselling his offensive potential, given that he’s put up a 145 wRC+ so far. Maybe that’s not sustainable, but 120 seems too low. Some team would definitely believe he’s better than a 120.
2) If he had to miss 12-18 months of pitching because of surgery, why would we assume he wouldn’t improve as a hitter? If he was DHing every day, wouldn’t we expect some improvement on his K rate? Even if we agree on the 120 wRC+ right now, as a just-barely-24-year-old, wouldn’t you expect him to improve with daily hitting opportunities?
Good point on #2, I didn’t consider that! On #1, though, I’m not sure I’d buy that the projections undersell him. A lot of scouts questioned his bat entering the season, and his contact rate is only 70%, so some of those hit tool concerns seem justified. I’m encouraged by his offense- he’s outhit what I would’ve expected, but I wouldn’t want to put too much stock into 150 BABIP-aided plate appearances.
I’m not sure how much to project the bat based on a lack of reps though. It’s an interesting question and I’d probably kick him into the top 20 in trade value. I just don’t think he’s close to guys like Lindor, Ramirez, Judge, or Correa, who are controllable, have longer star-level track records, and offer some defensive value.
A lot of dudes who start out at 140+ can’t sustain it. See Bellinger, C.
To project someone to stay above 130, they need to do it for a lot more than 100 PAs.
Like Juan Soto’s 209 PAs.
I don’t see why Otahni couldn’t play a good RF, like he did in Japan if he were unable to pitch. He’s also athletic enough to move down the defensive spectrum.
He would have to throw the ball
Love this article and have been in agreement with the majority of the rankings so far but Ohtani at 30 is crazy! Isn’t it conceivable that Ohtani could have TJS in the off-season and come back as a hitter only for 2019 and miss little to no time? Gleyber recovered from TJS in less than 6 months, I believe. Ohtani as a full-time hitter still has tremendous value. Throw in an additional 4 cost controlled year as a hitter and pitcher as well and I believe you have a top 5 value. Very shocked to see him this low.
Gleyber’s TJS wasn’t just as a position player, it was on his non-throwing arm.
Corey Seager had TJS in May and cannot return for the playoffs, even as a hitter.
Yeah but DHs don’t throw the ball.
or provide any defensive value.
You aren’t even allowed to swing for the first four months after TJS. He would miss time regardless.
He also likely won’t have given up on pitching following TJS. Rehabbing from that injury isn’t nothing, and it would probably affect his availability as a hitter to some degree.
I get the concerns with Ohtani, but just because of marketing purposes, Ohtani is worth significantly more than all of these other players thus far. Teams certainly take that into account.
It is perhaps out of the scope of the exercise, but Ohtani is also perhaps the player with the most “extra” negative trade value for his team. The Angels won the lottery. It’s as if they picked the Hope Diamond up off the floor (not quite, probably, but close). For so many reasons, they would suffer from trading him in ways that go well beyond not having his talent at their disposal. At the very least, they would presumably be completely out of the running for any subsequent Ohtani-type players for the next few decades. Whereas if they treat him well, which they’ve done so far, they would position themselves as likely front runners.
So, by my reckoning the top-20 is made up of the following guys
2017 Rank – Player
1 Carlos Correa
2 Mike Trout
3 Corey Seager
4 Kris Bryant
5 Francisco Lindor
6 Aaron Judge
7 Trea Turner
9 Mookie Betts
10 Corey Kluber
14 Freddie Freeman
15 Jose Ramirez
26 Andrew Benintendi
35 Luis Severino
38 Alex Bregman
Which means six new entries. Those will be:
Juan Soto
Ozzie Albies
Roland Acuna
Vladimir Guerrero, Jr.
Gleyber Torres ??
??? Is there another pitcher I can’t think of? 1.5 years of Gerrit Cole seems like not enough control.
edit: Paul Goldschmidt (2017 #23) is discussed in the Honorable Mentions article, but is not included in the table of 2017 players having dropped out. I can’t imagine his value has gone UP having burned a year off of his contract. Maybe I’m wrong?
I can’t imagine it’s Cole but I can’t think of who the other player is either. Only players that could think of that might be a remote possibility would be Alex Reyes or Julio Urias. Doubtful they could be that high though as they are still relatively unproven and battling injuries.
You’re missing Matt Chapman. In his first 165 games he has put up 6 fWAR (or 8 bWAR). He’s the best defensive 3B in baseball and a solidly above average bat. He’s probably just on the outside of the game’s elite looking in, but he’s going to put up a minimum of 5 WAR in his first full season.
Chapman … hmm … maybe. 2.5 years before he even hits arbitration so he is super cheap and will be for quite a while. I’d be slightly surprised to see a glove guy with a good-not-great bat at a tremendously deep position really be a top-20 value property in all of baseball though.
Then again, I’m floored that Vlad Jr. is also.
I know he’s older and still owed a lot of money, but I would prefer to have Scherzer and his contract to any other pitcher listed so far outside of Sale.
To further predict:
Top-10 will include:
Benintendi
Betts
Correa
Judge
Lindor
Ramirez (He’ll be #1)
Trout
11-20 will include:
Bryant
Freeman
Kluber
Seager
Turner
Where Bregman and Severino land is going to depend on just how much helium the rookies have in them
Correa shouldn’t be top 10. He’s got 2.5 years left and while he’s great he hasn’t quite brought it all together yet and has injury concerns now. Top 10-20 seems to be his spot.
Bregman, for instance, has an extra year of control and could easily be argued as the better overall player.
Correa is super 2, Astros have 3.5 years left.
Tweaking his back is reason enough to slide him below Lindor, not out of the top 10. He’s 23 and has 16 career WAR with a career 134 wRC+ as a SS. This”hasn’t quite brought it all together” is nonsense.
Correa is 6 months younger than Bregman. As an Astros fans I love AB, but there is no argument that Bregman is better than Correa that doesn’t start and stop with the last six weeks.
Deduction says it has to be Goldschmidt, but I agree with your take. Of last year’s top 50, 21 are listed as having dropped out and 14 are already listed, which means only five new players in the top 20. If Goldschmidt is the last one left, there we have it.
before reading down the list: “no-doubt slam-dunk best catcher in baseball”… i tried to guess who this could be. after initially thinking salvador perez and buster posey, i came to a conclusion. it’s j.t. realmuto isn’t it.
alright, yeah, that’s fair
okay well anyways the lesson i learned here is that even the “best” of us get things wrong sometimes. i was on realmuto from somewhere in late 2015 and iirc had him in fantasy from then on. and even then the big names of posey and perez got to me.
hashtag marketability, or whatever
For those counting at home so far:
PHI 3
HOU 3
SEA 3
BOS 2
NYM 2
LAD 2
CHC 2
LAA 2
WAS 2
MIL 1
MIA 1
NYY 1
CIN 1
TBR 1
SDP 1
SFG 1
MIN 1
CLE 1
Would the Yankees trade Sanchez straight up for Realmuto?
No I doubt it. And I’d be shocked if the Cubs would trade Contreras for Realmuto straight up. But Realmuto is definitely better than both of them so most teams would rather get him for 2.5 years than Contreras or Sanchez for 4.5.
Saying Realmuto is “definitely better” than Sanchez when Sanchez put up a 4.4 WAR last year seems like a stretch. Maybe Realmuto better – but not by enough to make 2.5 years of him worth more than 4.5 years of Sanchez.
Despends on your metric of choice. WAR doesn’t calculate framing, which Realmuto does well and Sanchez does not do as well. Using Baseball Prospectus WARp which does value framing Realmuto has been worth 3.9, 5.4, and 3.9 WAR the past two years and this season so far. Sanchez meanwhile is 2.6, 5.1, and 0.6 in that same time frame. That’s what I was using as my baseline for “definitely better.”
I agree that the Cubs and Yankees would prefer their younger cost controlled catchers over Realmuto. And I suspect the Marlins would also prefer the extra years of control on those guys too.
So who does this leave that would prefer Realmuto over Sanchez/Contreras? Maybe a team like the Nats/Red Soxs who are in it to win it now?
It’s all so theoretical it’s tough to say. My guess is a large number of these teams would take Realmuto over Contreras/Sanchez: Brewers, Nats, Red Sox, Rockies, Dbacks, Cardinals, Braves, Indians, Angels, Mariners.
If you put Contreras or Sanchez on the Marlins instead of Realmuto and removed the bias that develops over time, I’d imagine there’s a good chance the Yankees and Cubs would be on that list too.
And honestly, I’m a Cubs fan. I love Contreras and wouldn’t trade him for any other catcher. I’m trying my best to set my biases aside haha
Thanks – didn’t realize that about BP. I’d still argue the extra control outweighs Realmuto’s superiority though. I’m largely discounting this year as a BABIP fluke for Sanchez considering based on everything else he’s been very similar, or even arguably better( based on BB%) than last year.
Sanchez’s quality of contact is bad across the board this year. He has bad BABIP luck for sure, but his line drive rate is down from 21% to 14% and his infield fly ball rate is up from 10% to over 21%. Your batting line will almost always suck when over 1 in 5 hits is a pop up.
Sanchez was not up the whole year two years ago, so basically they are about even other than this year, right? What are ZIPS projections? About the same?
Wait, what? I could have sworn it was the other way around–that Sanchez does it well and Realmuto doesn’t. But Sanchez is kind of shaky behind the plate in general and Realmuto is pretty good otherwise. Are you sure it’s the framing metric and not how BP calculates other defensive value?
Just to be clear, here are StatCorner’s per-game numbers on Realmuto and Sanchez for this year:
Realmuto: -1..17
Sanchez: 0.72
Now here’s Baseball Prospectus (this is on the whole year, not per-game)
Realmuto: 0.8
Sanchez: 1.3
I know it’s trendy to bash Sanchez’s work behind the plate, but his framing is pretty consistently a bit above league-average, regardless of metric. Realmuto ranges from bad to a bit above-average, depending on the metric.
Correct. My mistake, I was misreading Fielding Runs as Framing Runs. Sanchez is a much better framer than I was giving him credit for. Guessing the overall FRAA discrepancy is more attributable to Realmuto being a better overall athlete?
Sure, 4.9 WARP better, but over 408 more PA. At his pace, Sanchez would make up 3.3 of those wins over 408 more PA. The difference is 0.7 WARP/600 PA—not nothing, but not worth pre-arb and arb1 years of control to me. I’d take Contreras over either though.
I get that Chris Sale is arguably the best pitcher in baseball. But I am extremely skeptical that he’s so much better than deGrom that the extra year of control on deGrom doesn’t matter.
I’m shocked that people are still citing Sales delivery as a concern when hes been one of the most reliable arms in baseball for nearly 8 years now. At what point do people admit they’re wrong about this and admit you cannot predict arm injuries?
Maybe you can predict them semi-reliably, but Sale is an outlier?
I agree, at this point, he’s one of the least likely pitchers to be injured (sorry Boston fans I just sent him to the DL with this comment). He’s working on year four of consecutive 200+ IP.
Now, he isn’t COMPLETELY without injury.
In 2012 he had some elbow issues throughout the season
In 2014 he went on the DL for the same elbow
In 2015 he fractured his foot and went on the DL (not a pitching issue)
Still, he’s basically been healthy (as far as pitchers go) for his career. I think we can definitely look at guys profile (mechanics, repertoire, velocity, previous health) and say who is/isn’t at a likely higher chance of injury. That doesn’t mean it’s 100% accurate, but there are common symptoms
I’m not sure I’d say he had elbow issues as much as it was just fatigue in 2012 for a guy that spent the previous year in the bullpen. 2015 he broke his foot jumping out of a truck like a dope.
2014 appeared to be the white sox playing it cautious with a guy suffering from arm fatigue. Hes never had any actual structural damage, just standard wear and tear and tiredness.
He went on the DL for the 2014 and 2015 injuries. The 2012 might have been fatigue but he was “sidelined” several times, enough that MLB registered it as a transaction.
Leave it to Rational Fan to be…rational
If Christian Yelich is at 22 then Starling Marte must be in the top 20. Consistently higher WAR with more steals and better defense up the middle and an even more friendly contract. This year is no exception either.
For better or worse, I’d bet that Marte’s PED suspension plays a factor in his trade value.
Possibly but aside from that he’s been top 10 in WAR among NL outfielders his entire career. This year he’s second and much higher than Yelich I might add. He should at least be an honorable mention.
You can’t just “aside from that” when it comes to rules infractions which result in a suspension.
If I apply for a job and disclose a prior felony, someone with 90% of my capabilities but a clean record looks like a lot safer bet as an employee.
Yelich is also three years younger than Starling, which is no small factor in a list such as this.
Something wrong with the previous rank(s) in the individual player boxes, degrom and Bellinger both 11, sale and yelich both 21. Two guys were 19 and 34 as well I think but I’m typing on an iPad and annoying to scroll. Enjoy the list but can’t imagine Sale > degrom with a full season less of control.
Sale doing it in the AL probably has a lot to do with it.
I don’t know that it changes things a ton, but Springer signed a 2-year deal prior to the season for $12M per, buying out his remaining arb years (’18 and ’19). I think if anything, it moves him down, but there IS a cost certainty associated with him, for better or worse.
Wait…you think 1 year of Sale has more value than 4 years of Snell? Umm. Okay.
Depends for who. For a team likely to make the playoffs in 2018-2019, most if not all would take Sale. Some of the others would likely take Snell. Also, 1) track record, and 2) Snell has been very lucky this year.
Put it all together and yes, Sale’s got more value I think.
“We can’t say for sure these are connected or necessarily say anything about Contreras, but it generally lines up with the profile he’s had for a while, which is that of an offensive catcher. ”
I’m a bit confused by this statement: Are we talking about Willson Contreras who’s pitchers give him him high marks for pitch calling, is one of the best catchers in the game at controlling the running game, and is the very best at throwing behind the runner?
I get it that it’s in vogue to value pitch framing (robo umps please!), but when did it become the only facet of catcher defense?
Posted this in chat, but didn’t get picked.
Maybe I’m just being a homer, but look at Suarez (ranked 32) vs. Yelich (ranked 22).
Over the last 2 years:
Batting line:
Suarez: .279/.378/.501 over 980 PA
Yelich: .285/.367/.446 over 1052 PA
Walk and strikeout rates are similar
Suarez: 12.7% BB, 22% K
Yelich: 10.7% BB, 20.9% K
Soft/Medium/Hard contact are similar:
Suarez: 16.5%/48.8%/40.2%
Yelich: 14.9%/46.4%/38.6%
They’re in the same ballpark with WAR (Suarez’ 7.2 to Yelich’s 6.6).
Age is similar (Suarez is ~5 months older).
Suarez rates out better using Def (2.9 vs -2.7) and plays higher up the defensive spectrum, while Yelich wins handily in baserunning value (11.5 BsR vs Suarez’s -1.9).
Yelich has 4 years of control after this year at $12.82MM AAV
Suarez has 7 years of control after this year at $10.68MM AAV
Unless you believe the last two years aren’t Suarez’s true talent level, Suarez looks like the more valuable player – better contract, better bat, better D. Only place he loses in baserunning (and I guess name recognition and being a late-bloomer).
Also, just noticed it looking at their player profiles, Happy Birthday, Eugenio Suarez!
I could understand teams paying more for Yelich than Suarez, simply because of the pedigree/ceiling and the fact that even five or so years into his major league career there’s still this notion that Yelich is a power breakout away from superstardom, and that there’s a legit chance that power breakout happens.
Now, maybe a year in Mil that’s roughly in line with his career power numbers puts that to rest once and for all and going into 2019 perception aligns more closely with reality.
Suarez also has the edge in intangibles. He always gives you 105.5%. At least, he does when he makes contact.
Haha, good catch, I thought my “averaging two seasons” math might have been sketchy on those contact quality numbers in particular. Other #s should be solid though.
Corrected Numbers:
Player, Soft%/Med%/Hard%
Suarez, 16.4%/43.2%/40.4%
Yelich, 15.0%/46.5%/38.5%
It’s interesting that all the talk about Ohtani that assumed there would be a wink-wink under the table deal with whatever team signed him that he’d in short order get a larger/longer contract never really came to fruition. In fact, I never even heard any rumors that said contract was being talked about.
Kind of works out for the Angels if we’re looking at 2020 at least before they can even hope for 150+ innings from him, just interesting that something that was widely assumed never really panned out.
The contract was almost certainly an offseason option…until the DL.
Tommy John prospects drain a lot of certainty from a player, even hitters.
Not a good correlation (R2 of 0.008 using some broad assumptions) between projected surplus value and trade value rank.
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I have to say, Cody Bellinger seems low to me, though it’s hard not to be biased by ZiPS projecting him to Jose Altuve’s equal over the next 5 years. Relative to Juan Soto, Bellinger has one fewer year of team control and, hugely, a 6pp higher projected K%. But Bellinger projects for more power, and the big difference in my mind is that Bellinger might pass in CF. And if not, he has the hands, speed and arm to be a plus defender in an OF corner or a plus-plus defender at first.
Soto’s defense is bad, but we know that defense is glossed over in trade valuation. I believe people in the game are telling Kiley they’re more excited about Soto now, but I’d take Bellinger.
I’ll be surprised if Kenta Maeda doesn’t make it onto this list somewhere. It doesn’t seem likely at this point. There is undoubtedly some injury risk tied to him, but he’s proven to be much more than an effective starter (by the end of the year he will likely be around 3 WAR per season since joining the league). He gets Ks, he limits walks, and he seems to do a fairly good job at limiting hard contact. Oh and he’s only owed about $7 million per year for the next 5 years (and less if he gets injured and doesn’t meet his bonus requirements). Very low risk for teams.
I have a feeling Ohtani is not going to get TJ. I think it is more of a cultural thing, and speaks a lot to how we are so quick to get under the knife. A lot of pitchers always needed TJ, they just didn’t get it. Is it necessary?