2022 Trade Value: #41 to #50

Design by Luke Hooper

As is tradition at FanGraphs, we’re using the lead-up to next week’s trade deadline to take stock of the top 50 players in baseball by trade value. For a more detailed introduction to this year’s exercise, as well as a look at the players who fell just short of the top 50, be sure to read the Introduction and Honorable Mentions piece, which can be found in the widget above.

For those of you who have been reading the Trade Value Series the last few seasons, the format should look familiar. For every player, you’ll see a table with the player’s projected five-year WAR from 2023-2027, courtesy of Dan Szymborski’s ZiPS projections. The table will also include the player’s guaranteed money, if any, the year through which their team has contractual control of them, last year’s rank (if applicable), and then projections, contract status, and age for each individual season through 2027, if the player is under contract or team control for those seasons. Last year’s rank includes a link to the relevant 2021 post. Thanks are due to Sean Dolinar for his help in creating the tables in these posts. At the bottom of the page, there is a grid showing all of the players who have been ranked up to this point.

One note on the rankings: particularly at the bottom of the list, there isn’t a lot of room between the players. The ordinal rankings clearly matter, and we put them there for a reason, but there’s not much of a gap between, say, the 35th ranked player and 50th. The magnitude of differences in this part of the list is quite small. Several folks I talked to might prefer a player in the honorable mentions section to one on the back end of the list, or vice versa. I think the broad strokes are correct — but with so many players carrying roughly equivalent value, disagreements abounded.

With that out of the way, let’s get to the first batch of players.

Five-Year WAR +9.4
Guaranteed Dollars
Team Control Through 2026
Previous Rank #32
Year Age Projected WAR Contract Status
2023 28 +2.3 Pre-Arb
2024 29 +2.1 Arb 1
2025 30 +2.0 Arb 2
2026 31 +1.7 Arb 3
Pre-Arb
Arb

Year three of Arozarena’s major league career looks to me like a microcosm of what you can expect from him in general. Those muscles he added during lockdown in 2020 are here to stay; he has plus power to all fields, and plus speed to go along with it. On the strength of those two tools alone, he’s been a valuable hitter since his debut.

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To take advantage of that newfound power, Arozarena rebuilt his swing, and his new one comes with some swing and miss. If that’s the cost of doing business, though, it’s a worthy tradeoff; power is the currency of the realm these days, and if it takes a few strikeouts to get there, so be it. The result is that Arozarena’s on-base percentage will be extremely BABIP-dependent; when the hits aren’t falling, he’ll be a slug-over-OBP guy, which at the very least means he’ll be streaky. His speed doesn’t translate to great defense, either, which means he’s best suited for an outfield corner, and the Rays give him plenty of time at DH.

Still, he won’t hit arbitration until 2024, and he’s only 27, so a decline phase feels a ways off yet. The power alone makes Arozarena a bargain at those rates, even if he never posts plus on-base numbers. Teams might not break the bank to trade for Arozarena – but every team in baseball would love to have more cost-controlled contributors like him.

Five-Year WAR +11.8
Guaranteed Dollars
Team Control Through 2026
Previous Rank #42
Year Age Projected WAR Contract Status
2023 24 +2.6 Pre-Arb
2024 25 +2.5 Arb 1
2025 26 +2.4 Arb 2
2026 27 +2.3 Arb 3
Pre-Arb
Arb

Carlson drew mixed opinions across baseball, though not about his talent level. Pretty much everyone agrees that he’s an above-average big leaguer, a plus bat who plays solid corner outfield defense. His recent run in center field suggests that he could even start there if necessary, though he’s certainly stretched. Offensively, he does a little bit of everything, and while his batted ball quality is down this year, he still looks like a good bet to post above-average offensive numbers year in and year out.

This much, everyone agrees on. The question, then, is what that means for his value. Is a surefire 2-3 WAR player making deeply discounted salaries one of the top 50 trade chips in the game? I suspect that it is for many teams, because if you’re operating on a budget, cost certainty and years of team control are invaluable; a bargain at one position allows you to splurge elsewhere.

Truthfully, there’s not much separating Carlson from any number of other young and good players. I think he’s a good avatar for this archetype though, and he’s a bit younger, a bit better, or has a bit more control than most everyone else in this tier, which explains his place at the back end of the top 50 rather than in the honorable mentions. Your mileage may vary, and again, lots of evaluators’ mileage did.

Five-Year WAR +14.3
Guaranteed Dollars
Team Control Through 2028
Previous Rank
Year Age Projected WAR Contract Status
2023 22 +2.4 Pre-Arb
2024 23 +2.9 Pre-Arb
2025 24 +3.0 Pre-Arb
2026 25 +3.0 Arb 1
2027 26 +3.0 Arb 2
Pre-Arb
Arb

A year ago, we didn’t even think Greene was the Tigers’ best hitting prospect – Spencer Torkelson held that honor. But all Greene has done since then is hit, to the point where he’s reached the major leagues at just 21 years old. Truly, all Greene has ever done in his entire baseball career is hit; after honing his skills at the team’s alternate site in 2020, he hit the ground running last season and carved through every assignment the Tigers gave him. Did he strike out a little more than your average premium hitting prospect? Sure, but he made up for it with excellent production on contact, and at a precocious age to boot.

His swing and general in-game motions are in the uncanny valley; there’s something about his actions and stride that feels just off of normal. But that seems to work out well for him; he’s sometimes looked befuddled by major league breaking balls, but has still put together an average line with impressive underlying contact quality metrics. And again, he’s 21, so there’s plenty of room to grow. If Greene reaches the heights that some talent evaluators project, he’ll be a perennial All-Star in either outfield corner. Even if he falls short of that, his raw power and feel to hit should give him a high floor. Greene looks like the kind of hitter you can build your lineup around, and you’ll have time to let that lineup gel; he won’t reach free agency until after the 2028 season.

Five-Year WAR +18.4
Guaranteed Dollars $296.9 M
Team Control Through 2030
Previous Rank #13
Year Age Projected WAR Contract Status
2023 31 +4.9 $37.1 M
2024 32 +4.5 $37.1 M
2025 33 +3.9 $37.1 M
2026 34 +2.9 $37.1 M
2027 35 +2.2 $37.1 M

Ranking 47th is a steep drop for Trout, who has basically been in the top 15 of this list since debuting in the majors. But age comes for everyone, and while Trout is still one of the best hitters in the game, he’s starting to have trouble staying on the field. He only played in 36 games last year, and he’s dealt with nagging injuries this season as well. Sure, he’s producing enough when healthy that he’s still a good bet to compete for MVP awards every year, but he turns 31 next month, and he’s under contract through 2030 at $35.5 million per year.

If Trout were a free agent, he’d probably sign a deal very similar to his current one. He’s still Mike Trout; he’s still one of the best players in the game’s history, and near the peak of his powers, though he’s become more strikeout-prone in recent years even as he maintains his excellent overall output. Plenty of teams flat out wouldn’t trade for Trout, because they don’t make long-term commitments like that. The ones that were still interested, though, would really want him; plugging Trout into your lineup would greatly improve any roster.

Sometime soon – in the next few years, most likely – Trout will fall off this list, and it will feel very strange. Heck, if we named these rankings after anyone, it would be Trout. But the torch has to be passed sometime, so just think of my putting Trout here as a rousing sendoff. The king of trade value is dead. Long live the new king of trade value, (redacted until Friday).

Five-Year WAR +15.3
Guaranteed Dollars
Team Control Through 2025
Previous Rank
Year Age Projected WAR Contract Status
2023 28 +3.7 Arb 1
2024 29 +3.3 Arb 2
2025 30 +3.3 Arb 3
Arb

Good hitters are hard to find. Sure, if you ask an armchair GM, they’d tell you that you can plug anyone in at first, and that there’s a reason positionless sluggers are always getting non-tendered. They’re right – but they’re also wrong. You can plug anyone in at first, but they won’t hit like France does.

First basemen have a 116 wRC+ this year. That’s pretty solid! France has a career 128 wRC+, and a 136 over the past two years. After a strikeout-heavy start to his major league career, he’s back to doing what he did throughout the minors: making a ton of contact, plenty of it loud. His hard-hit and barrel rates don’t jump off the page, but he hits a ton of line drives and never strikes out, which gives his offensive production an enviable floor. It’s easy to have acceptable production at first, but getting premium production there is still a rarity.

Am I worried that a decline in contact rate would push his offensive production down to average given his defensive limitations? Most definitely. But there’s nothing indicating an imminent decline; he has an excellent approach, hunting juicy pitches without chasing excessively, and a simple swing that covers the whole plate. Getting that kind of offense at arbitration prices for the next three years is something every team would jump at. After all, they all have plenty of worse-hitting corner-only guys they can replace.

Five-Year WAR +12.6
Guaranteed Dollars
Team Control Through 2025
Previous Rank #18
Year Age Projected WAR Contract Status
2023 27 +2.8 Arb 1
2024 28 +2.7 Arb 2
2025 29 +2.6 Arb 3
Arb

Gallen is a great lesson in why pitchers are so hard to place on this list. Last year, we had Gallen ranked quite highly, and for a pretty obvious reason: he’d been excellent since his 2019 debut and won’t be a free agent until after the 2025 season. After some early-season injury issues, though, he came back and looked diminished. His 2022 season has been uneven, mixing flashes of brilliance with stretches where he can’t seem to strike anyone out.

Look, evaluating pitchers is difficult. Gallen bullies hitters with his fastball, which he doesn’t throw particularly hard. It’s one of those high-spin four-seam jobs, but he doesn’t miss many bats with it. It just avoids hard contact, and he complements it with a nasty curveball that he commands extremely well. It’s really hard to describe why Gallen is so good, which makes it especially difficult to peg his value when he’s scuffling.

It’s entirely possible that Gallen shouldn’t appear on this list at all. It’s also possible that he’ll peel off a sub-3.00 ERA the rest of the season and make me look like a pessimist. This rating is the equivalent of throwing my hands up in the air. I think that teams would treat Gallen as better than his 2022 season, but still offer little enough in trade that they’d feel like big winners in the deal if he returns to his 2019-20 form. That leaves him at 45th, but with rather large error bars.

Five-Year WAR +10.6
Guaranteed Dollars
Team Control Through 2026
Previous Rank #48
Year Age Projected WAR Contract Status
2023 26 +2.3 Pre-Arb
2024 27 +2.2 Arb 1
2025 28 +2.2 Arb 2
2026 29 +2.0 Arb 3
Pre-Arb
Arb

There’s no such thing as having too many pitchers. Every year, teams learn that the hard way when what looked like a solid rotation turns into three good starters and a grab bag of Triple-A arms. Even worse, pitchers break all the time, which means most teams hate to pay top-end salaries for their starters. In essence, every team could use more pitchers like Garcia, who doesn’t reach arbitration until 2024 but has established himself as a mid-rotation starter.

The jury is out on whether Garcia will ever be more than that. He has a dizzying array of good secondary pitches; the cutter/slider/curveball spectrum he throws is the stuff of batters’ nightmares. He’s held back by a middling fastball, though; it doesn’t miss many bats, which is not what you’d like to see out of a four-seamer with so-so velocity. The result is plenty of loud contact and shorter outings as he tries to pitch backwards whenever possible.

If Garcia ends up as a roughly league-average pitcher, that’s still great! Again, every team needs those, and his track record is long enough at this point that I’m not terribly worried about a sudden decline. Not every player can be Gerrit Cole or Zack Wheeler; some are merely excellent baseball players who will be on your team for a long time yet.

Five-Year WAR +18.6
Guaranteed Dollars
Team Control Through 2024
Previous Rank HM
Year Age Projected WAR Contract Status
2023 28 +4.2 Arb 2
2024 29 +4.2 Arb 3
Arb

Controllable pitching is cool and all, but home runs are great too. Alonso absolutely bops. He has more homers than anyone else in baseball since his 2019 debut by a comfortable margin, and he’s a top 20 overall hitter in the game over that span. Sure, it doesn’t come with much defensive value, though Alonso has sharpened his fielding at first base over the years. But offense is offense, particularly now that the universal DH gives teams more flexibility in combining Alonso with whatever other defensively limited slugger they already have.

It’s not just homers; Alonso has quietly improved his plate discipline over the years. He’s swinging more often at good pitches to hit and making more contact without sacrificing quality when he does connect. He may never have the keenest eye, but he works to his strengths; when you do so much damage on contact, swinging makes plenty of sense. The only thing holding his value back (other than the aforementioned defense) is his impending free agency; he’ll make his second trip through arbitration this winter. That does cap what a team would give up to acquire him, but for his remaining two-plus years of team control, he’ll continue to launch balls into the stratosphere at a tremendous rate.

Five-Year WAR +15.4
Guaranteed Dollars
Team Control Through 2025
Previous Rank
Year Age Projected WAR Contract Status
2023 26 +3.3 Arb 2
2024 27 +3.2 Arb 3
2025 28 +3.1 Arb 4
Arb

I had a really hard time pinning down Arraez’s place on this list. He’s the best hitter for pure average in the game, bar none. This season has been a breakout year for him; he’s walking more than ever, striking out less than ever, and lacing line drives to all fields. It might be the most beautiful 150 wRC+ season you’ll ever see; watching Arraez hit feels like watching a great artist paint.

Why isn’t he higher on the list? Because he’s mostly incomparable, and mostly-incomparable players are hard to evaluate. He doesn’t really have a defensive position – he’s played a mix of first and second base this year, and has sprinkled left field and third base into the mix in the past. But he’s below average everywhere but first (and even there, he’s short for the position), so it’s not really positive utility, so much as a lesser-of-two-evils situation. And it’s hard to get by one base at a time in today’s game; pitchers are so good that someone on your team will eventually strike out, meaning hitting balls over the wall is more necessity than luxury.

I think Arraez will provide more value in the coming years than his spot on the list indicates. But teams are risk-averse, as I’ll mention many times throughout this exercise. Arraez is a risky player; he gets to his value thanks to one skill where he’s several standard deviations above anyone else in baseball, and if that one skill changes, he’ll be much worse. Every team would love to have him, but in my estimation, they’d all try to buy low.

Five-Year WAR +13.4
Guaranteed Dollars $73.0 M
Team Control Through 2028
Previous Rank #22
Year Age Projected WAR Contract Status
2023 29 +3.2 $11.6 M
2024 30 +3.1 $13.6 M
2025 31 +2.8 $16.6 M
2026 32 +2.4 $16.6 M
2027 33 +1.9 $14.6 M

I’m hesitant to make all these blurbs “you would not believe how hard it was to rank this player,” but c’mon! Marte is in the middle of his second straight solid offensive season. He’s playing nearly every day after missing a chunk of each of the last two seasons with injury. He’s on a team-friendly contract that never eclipses $17 million per year. He could remain in Arizona until as late as 2028 if the Diamondbacks exercise their team option – oh yeah, his contract has a team option.

He’s also a butcher at second base, and really everywhere he’s played in the field. He should probably play a corner defensive position somewhere, though I’m not quite sure which one. And talk about an injury risk – “long-term contract” and “hamstring issues” go together as poorly as peanut butter and jelly go well. Modern GMs would just as soon douse themselves in kerosene as take a zero on a big contract, and there’s always that lingering possibility with Marte. That’s why his deal is reasonable. What other 28-year-old with a 135 wRC+ over the past four seasons do you know who is under contract for the next four-plus seasons at a good rate?

Even accounting for the injury risk, I think Marte will be a comfortably above-average player for the majority of his contract because he hits so well when healthy. But here’s a spot where the contract hurts more than it does for most players, reasonable as it is. As I mentioned in the introduction, breadth of market doesn’t matter for stars; if a few teams are competing to trade for one, they’ll fetch a premium even if the small-market teams are out. But Marte is more nice player than star, and many of the clubs that wouldn’t mind taking on his deal are awash in above-average corner types. To me, this is the spot where a lack of suitors most hurts a player’s value in trade.

2022 Trade Value, 41-50
Rk Pv Player Age 2023 2024 2025 2026 2027
41 22 Ketel Marte 28 +3.2
$11.6 M
+3.1
$13.6 M
+2.8
$16.6 M
+2.4
$16.6 M
+1.9
$14.6 M
42 Luis Arraez 25 +3.3
Arb 2
+3.2
Arb 3
+3.1
Arb 4
43 HM Pete Alonso 27 +4.2
Arb 2
+4.2
Arb 3
44 48 Luis Garcia 25 +2.3
Pre-Arb
+2.2
Arb 1
+2.2
Arb 2
+2.0
Arb 3
45 18 Zac Gallen 26 +2.8
Arb 1
+2.7
Arb 2
+2.6
Arb 3
46 Ty France 27 +3.7
Arb 1
+3.3
Arb 2
+3.3
Arb 3
47 13 Mike Trout 30 +4.9
$37.1 M
+4.5
$37.1 M
+3.9
$37.1 M
+2.9
$37.1 M
+2.2
$37.1 M
48 Riley Greene 21 +2.4
Pre-Arb
+2.9
Pre-Arb
+3.0
Pre-Arb
+3.0
Arb 1
+3.0
Arb 2
49 42 Dylan Carlson 23 +2.6
Pre-Arb
+2.5
Arb 1
+2.4
Arb 2
+2.3
Arb 3
50 32 Randy Arozarena 27 +2.3
Pre-Arb
+2.1
Arb 1
+2.0
Arb 2
+1.7
Arb 3
Pre-Arb
Arb





Ben is a writer at FanGraphs. He can be found on Bluesky @benclemens.

149 Comments
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rosen380
3 years ago

He [Alonso] has more homers than anyone else in baseball since his 2019 debut by a comfortable margin,”

Hell, 2018 onward he’s second to Eugenio Suarez, so doing pretty well even if he spots the entire league a year!

TKDCMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  rosen380

Is the Alonzo part of this comment more surprising than the Suarez part of this comment?

Sonny LMember since 2017
3 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

I love ‘Most since ___’ stats when you can stretch the window to include years the player hadn’t debuted yet.

In 2016 Clayton Kershaw led all pitchers in WAR over the previous 10 years. That started his clock in 2005 when he was a junior in high school.

Lanidrac
3 years ago
Reply to  Sonny L

It reminds me of how Albert Pujols easily led MLB in HRs and RBIs (among other things) in winning Player of the Decade for 2000-2009 despite not debuting until 2001.

Although, the actual decade was actually from 2001-2010 (since there was no Year 0, and the 21st Century likewise began in 2001), where Pujols’s dominance was even more impressive. It always annoys me how most decade awards are off by a year, and no, Minnie Minoso was not actually a 5-decade player!

tung_twista
3 years ago
Reply to  Lanidrac

Pujols is 16th in PA from 2000 to 2009 so it isn’t too surprising.

What is really impressive is in the 16 years from 2004 to 2019, Trout leads all MLB hitters in WAR and he wasn’t active for almost half of them. (He is 118th in PA)

Say what you will about millennia and centuries, but the most common usage of decades has always been from 19X0 to 19X9
It is a made up term to use for convenience.
0-to-9 or 1-to-0 aren’t inherent right or wrong.
What matters is what is socially accepted and useful.

Philip ChristyMember since 2026
3 years ago
Reply to  rosen380

This is very incorrect. From 2018 thru 2022 Pete Alonso has the 10th most home runs in baseball.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago

I’m not sure I’d put Arraez that high because his year looks a bit fluky. But he definitely belongs on this list.

I’m not really buying Carlson or Arozarena over some of the HMs; I’d drop them off. Arozarena in particular.

I’m a Riley Greene skeptic, but I recognize that’s the only reason I’d bump him to the HM. If I believed the scouting reports I wouldn’t move him.

I’d put Harper over Trout on this list. Probably only one spot, though. Don’t get me wrong, I’d rather have Trout on my team in comparison with Harper. But Trout is getting paid a whole lot more.

PC1970Member since 2024
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Yeah, when I saw Carlson & Arozarena, I immediately thought there were 4-5 HM guys I would easily take over them- Harper, Devers, Harris, Gimenez, Edman..& I’d have to think hard about Olson & Machado.

Lanidrac
3 years ago
Reply to  PC1970

Carlson is better than Edman now and has a significantly higher ceiling, plus he has an extra year of control on top of that.

Edman’s WAR is significantly overrated due to defense and baserunning being overrated by WAR in general. Hitting should take up at least 70% or even higher of the weight used for WAR, except for pitchers (obviously) and catchers.

Last edited 3 years ago by Lanidrac
carterMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  PC1970

Harris could end up being a guy that is too 10 next year. He does so many things right

synco
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Carlson and Arozarena were the first two whiffs for me. And as much as I love Luis Garcia since I discovered him in my fantasy league, there are a bunch of HMs I don’t think he would be accepted straight up for.

As mentioned in a comment below (and every year), the list seems to disproportionally reward surplus value (often produced incrementally over a period of years) over the value of having a high amount of WAR produced out of one lineup spot, even if it’s for a shorter period of time. For example if the Red Sox decided they were done with Devers and punting the next 1.5 years, do we really think Arozarena or Garcia straight up would get it done? Superstars with any time left create so much gravity that they’re only moved when the selling team is truly giving up, at which point they don’t want sure-thing average guys but rather lottery tickets who might turn into the next superstar. Because ultimately sure-thing average guys are complimentary pieces, not foundational pieces, and whatever teams may say in interviews, they value them as such.

Anon21Member since 2018
3 years ago
Reply to  synco

Superstars with any time left create so much gravity that they’re only moved when the selling team is truly giving up, at which point they don’t want sure-thing average guys but rather lottery tickets who might turn into the next superstar.”

I think you’re conflating player profile with time horizons. What tanking teams want is to shift value from the present to the future. You do that by sending away currently good major leaguers and getting back prospects, who are risky for the same reason they appeal to tankers: what they have right now is potential, not performance (and expiring service time). So it’s not that the Marlins in trading Christian Yelich would have preferred to get back Lewis Brinson instead of, say, a cryogenically-frozen Keon Broxton who could be unthawed in 2020, but the latter isn’t an option. On the rare occasions when you do see two contenders match up, or swing three-team deals, solid average performers who are cheap and controllable do quite well.

Lanidrac
3 years ago
Reply to  synco

Maybe, but these guys are young stars themselves, or in other words, sure-thing significantly above average guys.

Dmjn53
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Yea I’m not in Arozarena. Clearly a valuable player but I don’t know if the low OBP/fringey defense/good but not great power combo is a particularly rare commodity. He’s also not far above replacement level this year

Pepper Martin
3 years ago

Here’s an interesting thought: Aaron Judge is 8 months younger than Mike Trout. If Trout was a free agent this upcoming offseason, which one would get the bigger contract?

Obviously Trout has the infinitely better track record, but in a new contract you’re not paying for past performance. Judge has produced at a high level whenever he’s been on the field his entire career… and he’s been on the field more often than Trout the last few years. Since the beginning of 2017, Trout has played in 556 games and Judge has played in 639 games. We’ve reached a point where, on a per-game basis, it’s difficult to say that Trout is going to be better than Judge going forward. He might be. He might not be. Depends on the year. But Trout hasn’t played more than 140 games in a season since he was — wait for this — 24 years old, and that streak isn’t ending this year.

You say that if Mike Trout were a free agent now, he’d probably get a contract for around what he’s owed. That’s currently 8 years, $283.6 million. How do you justify giving Aaron Judge less?

MikeSMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  Pepper Martin

I think Judge might have more “fall off a cliff” potential than Trout just because he’s bigger and that seems to happen to a lot of big men – Thomas, Cabrera, Fielder. But he’s also a much better athlete than a lot of those big guys (none of them could competently play CF) and arguing about who is more likely to be injured is a lot like arguing about which number the roulette wheel is going to land on. Besides, injury risk on contracts is overrated since they are all insured at less than 10 cents on the dollar so the down side risk to the team is pretty low.

If Judge were to get 8/$300M I don’t think anybody would argue it was a massive overpay, even though it is usually a bad idea to pay a guy in his late 30’s that much money to play baseball.

CC AFCMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  MikeS

Prince Fielder is a terribly odd comparison. He was short and fat. Judge is almost a foot taller than him and decidedly not fat. And trout is a big ass dude himself if not Judge sized.

joe_schlabotnik
3 years ago
Reply to  CC AFC

prince fielder was regarded by his peers to be the strongest player in the mlb. Not sure fat is the right word for him

CC AFCMember since 2016
3 years ago

Prince Fielder was a fantastic baseball player who was strong AF. He was listed as 5’11” and 275lbs, which was probably generous on the height side. He was fat.

Last edited 3 years ago by CC AFC
MikeD
3 years ago

There can be two truths: Strong and fat.

hughduffy
3 years ago
Reply to  CC AFC

Aaron Judge: 6-7, 282lb (201cm, 127kg)
Mike Trout: 6-2, 235lb (188cm, 106kg)

Judge has about 5 inches and 50 pounds on Trout.

carterMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  hughduffy

Mike Trout weighs more than 235. Easily 250. Do not think it changes a ton in terms of valuation, though. I’d def take Trout over Judge rest of career. I do wonder sometimes about the scout who said Trout eats 20 hamburgers a day, pass. Like obviously he was wrong as Trout infer circle guy. And it isn’t that I’m giving it any credence, more I wonder if Trout was eating 20 hamburgers a day. And if he was, that might even more impressive than being an inner circle guy.

Last edited 3 years ago by carter
vslykeMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  MikeS

Insurance use has trended down in baseball because it got expensive. For example, Strasburg’s contract is NOT insured, which helps explain why the Nats are behaving the way they are.

joe_schlabotnik
3 years ago
Reply to  vslyke

wait, what? I haven’t seen that reported anywhere. I wasn’t aware that there were any multi hundred million dollar contracts without insurance. where have you seen that?

Anon21Member since 2018
3 years ago

I have read this too–basically that insurance companies had no idea what they were doing in the early days of insuring big baseball contracts (like the 80s? 90s?) and so they took a bath on injuries, then responded by raising premiums to the point where teams are better off just “self-insuring” (i.e., eating the loss). I can’t remember if that was just with reference to pitchers or not.

HappyFunBallMember since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  MikeS

Contract insurance is catastrophic. It doesn’t pay out unless the player can no longer play baseball at any level. A guy who can play but is diminished is going to put a hurt on your payroll, and that’s just the way it is.

TheGarrettCooperFanClub
3 years ago
Reply to  MikeS

The contract may be insured, but it still counts for luxury tax calculations, so in effect, for a team that is not going to pass the threshold or the top threshold, it’s still a deterrant. I guess it saves the owner money though… yay?

68FCMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  Pepper Martin

Judge’s size makes him such an outlier that I think there are very real concerns about his aging curve. The guys that come to mind are Frank Thomas, Adam Dunn, and Giancarlo Stanton. None are perfect comparisons, but they all had significantly drops in production and availability in their 30s.

Pepper Martin
3 years ago
Reply to  68FC

Judge has no comps, because of his size, that’s true. His athleticism sets him apart from every other guy even remotely as close to him in baseball history; Frank THomas and Adam Dunn and Frank Howard could never do the things he could do. But looking to other sports, Judge isn’t terribly far off the size of LeBron James or Karl Malone, guys who could keep going well into their late 30’s.

jmbarton13
3 years ago
Reply to  Pepper Martin

Thomas played some SEC football. He also put up base running numbers comparable to Judge through their year 30 seasons. Thomas’s athleticism at that size is probably the closest comp you’re going to find to Judge.

eph1970Member since 2025
3 years ago
Reply to  jmbarton13

And for baseball hitters there’s the inevitable reaction time decline. When the Reds traded Frank Robinson to the Orioles, they described him as an ‘old 32.’ Bad forecast, but plenty of hitters do fall off a cliff.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  jmbarton13

It’s almost unfair to compare anyone to Frank Thomas.

Jason BMember since 2017
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Must be the Nugenix

Jason BMember since 2017
3 years ago
Reply to  Jason B

Then again Doug Flutie takes it and he’s 3’11

68FCMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  Pepper Martin

Judge’s lack of comps scares me a bit, it is just a huge unknown.

He already has a much larger injury history than guys like LeBron or Malone neither of whom had a single notable injury in their 20s. The first time Malone missed more than 2 games in a season was his final year at 40. LeBron is another relative ironman who didn’t begin to miss time until his age 34 season at which point he was already among the all-time leaders in minutes played.

MikeD
3 years ago
Reply to  68FC

I don’t know. None of us know. Judge, when he debuted at 6’7″, was the tallest regular position player in MLB history. Frank Thomas and Adam Dunn are not necessarily good comparisons. Different body types. More thick and lumbering. Thomas was a fantastic hitter, but Judge is more lean and a very good defensive OFer (why exactly didn’t the Yankees not have him playing CF since he debuted?) How about Dave Winfield, a 6’6″, lean, multi-sport athlete and OFer. Winfield played until he was 43, put up a 132 OPS+ from 31-40, had a great season at age 40 and one of his best at age 36. How about the 6’5″ Dave Parker? Another athletic and very good defensive OFer. We know Parker had off-the-field and significant substance-abuse issues that made him a lesser player in his 30s, yet despite that he still played until he was 40, even leading the league in total bases at 35.

The assumption is that Judge will fall apart because he’s extra tall. I don’t believe there’s anything that can back that up because the sample size is not large. Even the 6’5″+ compare class is small, no pun intended, and it’s not just height, it’s skill. We need a very tall and athletic player with HOF-level skills. Judge won’t make the HOF likely because of a late start and some injuries, but the talent has to be taken into account. The assumption should be he will decline, as we all do, but we simply don’t know if his height means he will collapse rapidly. Maybe it will help him. He’s a bit of a unicorn.

If I’m in the Yankees front office, I try to limit the deal to seven years. Pay him more than Scherzer’s AAV. 7/310, which is a tick over a $44M AAV. Pay him more AAV but get him off of a 9 or 10 year deal. They can afford it. That gets him off the books before his age 38-40 seasons when things could get ugly.

Last edited 3 years ago by MikeD
68FCMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  MikeD

The biggest difference with Judge is his weight as well. He’s listed at 6’7 282lbs and he looks lean. Adam Dunn was listed at 6’6 285 at the end of his career. At 25, Dunn was listed at 240 and looked physically more like Judge than you would expect. Obviously Judge is a much better athlete than Dunn was, but he wasn’t as lumbering early in his career as we tend to remember him.

The strain of carrying all that weight, even lean muscle like Judge, can add up to a lot of wear and tear on the joints. If he fills out in his 30s the way many athletes do, he could easily be playing at over 300 lbs. I suspect he would still be a tremendous athlete at that weight, but it is just more strain on his body.

Winfield and Parker were listed at 220 and 230 respectively for context.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  68FC

Aaron Judge is one of those guys who, if his size doesn’t get him, the fact that he’s just too strong for his own good might. I love who he is today–who doesn’t? But one of these days he’s going to swing and his arm is just gonna come right out of his socket.

carterMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  68FC

Mvp baseball 2005 Dunn had that speed symbol by his name and my head nearly broke, as a kid

carterMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  68FC

Ehh, I guess I can give you Dunn. Stanton is still elite in a per bat basis. Sure he misses games here and there, but that is a feature, not a flaw. Check out his sprint score. Right next to Molina. It isn’t like he is *slower* he just chooses to run slower. Frank Thomas though? 154 career wrc. At 35 he hit 42 home runs w a 267/390/592 slash line. 72 career war, which is massively negated by a defensive penalty that I think isn’t calculated correctly. If teams knew he would age like Frank Thomas they would be like where do I sign. Looking at his fangraphs page just brings me joy. 357/487/729! 21% walk 11.4%k. Da fuq?

baubo
3 years ago

I’m really shocked at Trout’s WAR projection. I know he’s starting to have injuries and he’s dropped off in his game, but that’s still a pretty shockingly low projection going forward. I feel like a change in scenery and better organizational support can help him maintain his production better than whatever the hell Angels organization do to everything into poop

Pepper Martin
3 years ago
Reply to  baubo

Mike Trout turns 31 in a couple of weeks. He has not played in more than 140 games since his age 24 season. He’s very productive when he’s on the field, but there’s no particular reason to think that he’s going to be on the field all that often going forward. The player Trout most often gets compared to is Mickey Mantle; when Mantle was the age Trout is now he won the MVP award by hitting .321/.486/.605, but missed 38 games due to injury. From that point on, Mantle was still productive — he was always a good player until the end — but the injuries took their toll, and he only had one 30 HR season (and only one 5 fWAR season) left in him. I wouldn’t be surprised if Trout’s career took a similar trajectory.

airforce21oneMember since 2026
3 years ago
Reply to  Pepper Martin

I’m guessing Mantle’s lifestyle had something to do with career arc as well, no?

CC AFCMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  airforce21one

Right? Mantle’s alcoholism combined with the relative lack of modern sports medicine makes that comparison a real stretch, besides being a data set of 1.

Pepper Martin
3 years ago
Reply to  CC AFC

There’s not a huge universe of “similar to Mike Trout” players to compare him to.

Pepper Martin
3 years ago
Reply to  airforce21one

The alcohol definitely took a toll with Mantle. But even with the gruesome injury in the 1951 World Series, Mantle did a lot better job of staying on the field during his 20’s than Trout did, so he was starting from a healthier place than Trout.

Dmjn53
3 years ago
Reply to  airforce21one

They also had no idea how to probably rehab his torn ACL back then

PC1970Member since 2024
3 years ago
Reply to  Dmjn53

The ACL he tore stepping in a drain in the OF at Yankee Stadium on a ball in play in a WS game.

That should also give you an idea of the difference in the playing conditions from now to then.

Pepper Martin
3 years ago
Reply to  PC1970

Tell that to Blake Rutherford.

TKDCMember since 2016
3 years ago

Yeah, I’m just going to combine to homer Braves takes into one comment, if only to keep my additional downvoted comments to one.

1. Feels like Kyle Wright should have made honorable mention. I can’t imagine him making top 50 and no chance he’s better than a couple of these pitchers. That’s a small nit. There are probably 20-30 Honorable mentions to the honorable mentions.

2. I think almost every team would rather have Harris II and his team control than anyone on this list. Some teams might prefer Trout. The Braves are in win-now mode and I don’t think any Braves fan would welcome a Trout for Harris II trade. The Mets are just spending like drunken sailors so they might rather have Trout, but not sure about any other team. Would the Yankees trade more for another aging slugger than a legit answer in centerfield for the next six years? Harris II might (probably will?) regress at the plate and maybe he’s only going to be an average hitter. But he’s the youngest player in the league and is clearly valuable on the bases and in the field (where it seems prospectors whiffed on his abilities). Interestingly, he may actually be that high-floor player that FG thought Cristian Pache would be.

If Julio Rodriguez has an argument for #1 as a 21-year old rookie who is projected as 5.5 WAR/600 PAs right now, then Harris II, a slightly younger 21-year old rookie with a current projection of 3.3 WAR/600 PAs should be somewhere on the list.

markakis21
3 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

Not sure about Kyle Wright, but def agree with Harris II. I know surplus value isn’t everything, but he is a star in his own right for every age, and he’s 21!

v2miccaMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  markakis21

It’s picking nits a little. Kyle Wright is still cost controlled for a few years, but only has the 2022 season to show as a really positive track record right now. You could argue that he deserves an honorable mention seeing as Spencer Strider made the list with a similarly small sample size.

Uncle SpikeMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

I don’t think MLB teams are ready to fork over a huge return for Harris. Outside of an amazing 3 weeks stint to start his MLB career, he’s never put up amazing numbers. His minor league numbers are good, not great. He put up a 161 wRC+ over the first three weeks of his MLB career but is at a 93 wRC+ over the last month since then. Eric gave him a 50 as recently as this June as well as grades him as a below average defender. I realize he’s very young and there’s definitely some upside there but I agree with Ben and think the HM is appropriate.

TKDCMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  Uncle Spike

He’s been the 8th most valuable OF in MLB by fWAR over the last month.

With all due respect to Eric, it seems likely that he whiffed big time on his defensive evaluation and if that is the case you would have to bump that 50 FV up 5-10 points.

Last edited 3 years ago by TKDC
sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

How funny is it that after years of everyone building up Pache as the next all-world defensive CFer that guy turned out to be Harris?

Harris reminds me a bit of Kiermaier. Maybe he hits a little better and defends a little worse, or one and not the other. But he’ll be a good one.

CC AFCMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

There’s definite adjustments that need to be made, though. His K-BB% is atrocious and it’s supported by him swinging out of the zone a ton and whiffing are a fairly high rate. Not to mention his launch angle is very low, which is resulting in a high GB rate.

I’m certainly willing to grade on a curve for a young guy who jumped levels, but his current success offensively is not going to be sustainable without an adjustment.

TKDCMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  CC AFC

Yeah, if his offensive success looked like it was likely sustainable as is then I’d argue that he should be top-20 on this list, given what appears to me to be very good to great skills in base running, fielding, and arm.

While I think regression is the reasonable expectation I also think that “making adjustments” is also a reasonable expectation for the youngest player in the league that barely played above A-ball.

DLHughey
3 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

Why not say the same thing about Christopher Morel? Plate discipline is iffy, SSS defense metrics are lower on him, but he’s getting on base at a way higher clip, has a higher wrc+, and at least has a good BB%. Also spent no time at AAA.

I don’t think morel is a t50 player, nor do I think Harris is. Guys go on hot streaks and cold streaks, extrapolating either of those into “he’s a top 20 guy” after 1-2 months is silly.

TKDCMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  DLHughey

He’s two years older, painfully obvious that he’s being carried by a drastically outlier BaBiP, and sucks at defense.

There are reasons to view them differently.

Also, please don’t put bullshit words in my mouth. I very clearly said that it would be wrong to put him in the top 20. Don’t be that guy.

Last edited 3 years ago by TKDC
DLHughey
3 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

Who cares about babip when his woba lines up with his xwoba? Morel has hit the ball well and gotten outcomes that roughly line up with that. To a slightly lesser extent, Harris has as well, which is partly why I’m not screaming “ermagerd babip” at him too as if it was 2011. We’re supposed to be better at this by now.

And anyone putting faith in 2 months of defensive metrics does not quite understand how they work at all.

There are no reasons to view the two differently because they’ve basically done the same thing, except for Morel is hitting for more power and walking more and getting on base more.

TKDCMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  DLHughey

Well, you clearly don’t understand xwOBA and it’s limitations, so maybe you’re the guy that needs to be better? Comparing Morel to Harris II is, no offense, really effing stupid. Again, no offense.

Last edited 3 years ago by TKDC
Jason BMember since 2017
3 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

“no offense” = “I’m going to insult you like hell but I’m going to try to provide cover for any potential rebuttal or repercussions!”

In the south we have “God bless” for that purpose as well. 🙂

BurleighGrimesMember since 2026
3 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

Way too early for this take imo

68FCMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

Remember, defense peaks really early, so he will probably decline defensively going forward. The most likely outcome seems to be trending towards an average-ish hitter with an average to plus glove in CF. That is absolutely a valuable player, but being in the 50-60 range sounds about right.

Anon21Member since 2018
3 years ago
Reply to  68FC

Remember, defense peaks really early, so he will probably decline defensively going forward.

You can say this about any player who gets a lot of value from his glove, but it’s of little relevance to Harris, who is running a cool 94th percentile OAA rating in center field and is ~the youngest player on a Major League roster. Might as well ding a high-school shortstop who’s projected as a first-round talent in part because he’s a great fielder–“just wait 20 years, and see how well he fields then!”

68FCMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  Anon21

If the value is built around the glove being his carrying skill, then it is relevant. It is among the reasons Juan Lagares and Harrison Bader never made appearances on this list. Harris needs to show that he is distinctly more valuable than players. I suspect he is, but he just doesn’t have the track record at the plate yet.

Anon21Member since 2018
3 years ago
Reply to  68FC

I just think you’re looking at it the wrong way. The limitation on his value is that his offense is uncertain, it’s not that his defense will likely decline significantly during his team-controlled years (which only take him to 27).

68FCMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  Anon21

I agree. I suppose I am just hesitant to really believe he is an elite defender yet given the small sample size and deviation from the scouting reports.

TKDCMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  68FC

Harrison Bader was also playing A ball when he was Harris’ age. Past that, I believe FG also whiffed on his defense in its scouting. Bader has been 3-4 WAR player in 4 of his 5 seasons since his rookie year (2020 pro rata, on pace this year). I know surplus value is not everything, but I’d bet Bader’s is higher the last five years than half of the players that made the list in 2018.

68FCMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

As far as trade value goes, defense just isn’t a highly prioritized as offense by teams. It might be that they don’t think it’s as consistent or they don’t think it’s as valuable, or just that they aren’t as confident in their ability to measure it.

For what it’s worth, I check the MLB pipeline scouting report for Harris and they had a 50 on his defense and say him as a long term CF, but not an elite one.

Sometimes the scouting reports are just wrong or something changes. Julio Rodriguez is a great example of this, he just showed up this year significantly faster than he was last year and went from a 60 runner and 45 glove in a corner to a 75 runner and a 50 glove in center.

jmbarton13
3 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

And Statcast measurables like jump and sprint speed suggest the defense isn’t a fluke. His exit velos and barrel % are well above average. He’s made mechanical adjustments to his swing since his call up. I’m not sure how ZIPs weights his MiLB time vs his MLB time, but I think it’s underprojecting him.

Anon21Member since 2018
3 years ago
Reply to  Uncle Spike

Eric gave him a 50 as recently as this June as well as grades him as a below average defender.

All due respect to Eric, but I think MLB teams are probably more likely to care about his Statcast ratings and just generally watching him play. He is not a below average defender, and there’s no need to treat a prospect grade as if it’s more authoritative information than what he’s done since coming up.

will1331Member since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

ZiPS 3 year projections have Harris at 1, 1.1, & 1.5 WAR. That obviously feels light, but worth remembering, especially having just 50 games under his belt.

TKDCMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  will1331

Those projections aren’t updated. They’re based on pre-2022. For a guy like Harris who had only played in A+ ball, they are entirely useless.

Dmjn53
3 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

I think there’s some justifiable degree of skepticism on Harris. He’s clearly been awesome so far, even more so when you factor in his age, but the 2% walk rate is at least a yellow if not a red flag.

I don’t think the Julio comp works because everything he’s doing feels sustainable, plus he had the Uberprospect pedigree

jbgocubsMember since 2025
3 years ago

I never want to be the guy calling a writer a homer because it’s lazy and usually stupid. But Ben! You’re making me with the Carlson placement on this list. Guy swings a noodle bat, every single player bar Grisham from the HM’s would garner more trade interest than Carlson

jaysfan39Member
3 years ago
Reply to  jbgocubs

I thought he would be an honorable mention but I think you are under selling him a bit he has 2 FWAR in 78 games while dealing with nagging injuries, he might not ever be a star but he seems like as sure of 2.5 to 3.5 WAR 23 year old you can find while coming with 4 years of control. It isn’t the sexiest profile but it certainly comes with some value.

WerthlessMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  jbgocubs

Agree. Carlson and Riley Greene… Not even close to similar trade value. Imagine the Cardinals calling around and shopping Carlson; asking for Greene, or Harper, or Trout straight up. Same comment with Arraez.

Lanidrac
3 years ago
Reply to  Werthless

You’re correct, because I certainly prefer Carlson over an unproven rookie like Riley Greene with only a 95 wRC+ and below-average defense over 31 MLB games.

Last edited 3 years ago by Lanidrac
sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  jbgocubs

Considering that Edman isn’t on this list I don’t agree.

Lanidrac
3 years ago
Reply to  jbgocubs

What are you talking about?! Carlson had a 113 wRC+ as a rookie last year and has followed it up with a 111 wRC+ so far this year. That is NOT a “noodle bat”! Throw in his above-average defense, and he’s a quite valuable young star who is probably still developing and has 4+ years of control remaining.

Last edited 3 years ago by Lanidrac
v2miccaMember since 2016
3 years ago

Seeing Mike Trout drop this low on the list he once dominated just makes me feel old. I’m bracing myself for the likelihood of him completely falling off of the 2023 iteration. Definitely the end of an era.

MikeD
3 years ago
Reply to  v2micca

I remember when Babe Ruth dominated these lists. Updates were delivered by carrier pigeons.

airforce21oneMember since 2026
3 years ago

Why does ZiPS have so many young players with declining future WAR projections?

striderremixMember since 2023
3 years ago
Reply to  airforce21one

I can’t speak for ZiPS, but the more recent data on aging curves suggests that players only decline, rather than improving through their mid/late twenties as was previously the case. That could be why.

I suppose you’d really expect those players to stay stable through age 29ish rather than declining, and maybe that’s what the question is about, since guys like Carlson have very slight attrition.

Pepper Martin
3 years ago
Reply to  striderremix

But that’s just obviously stupid. If players only decline, rather than improving and then declining, you would see major league rosters made up entirely of newborn babies.

Jason BMember since 2017
3 years ago
Reply to  Pepper Martin

Yes. That is exactly what you would see. Well said. /s

Last edited 3 years ago by Jason B
ALLluckNOtalentMember since 2017
3 years ago
Reply to  airforce21one

My reasonable guess is that every year into the future a person is more and more likely to get injured, and once someone gets injured they are relatedly more likely to be less productive and get injured more for the rest of their career.

I follow most of the major sports and this seems to be true across the board for why so many star young players do not end up with the hall of fame careers that their numbers extrapolate out to

mattMember since 2023
3 years ago

I know he only has 1.5 years left before FA but I’d have devers over everyone on this list but Ketel. I think elite players are undervalued by the $/WAR linear theory

MRDXolMember since 2021
3 years ago
Reply to  matt

Yeah it seems very clear to me that a 5-WAR player paid $15M is way more valuable than a 2-WAR player paid $2M

jaysfan39Member
3 years ago
Reply to  matt

Yeah I agree with this it would certainly be a more complicated way of valuing WAR but it seems like each additional WAR a player earns should have more value as it is rarer to get that WAR from one player something like

1 WAR player 6 mil, 2 WAR player 13 mil, 3 WAR player 21 mil, 4 WAR player 32 mil, 5 WAR player 45 mil…… so as each additional WAR becomes more rare i.e. way less players hit that WAR threshold the WAR calculation becomes more valuable.

I guess this isn’t the intent of WAR calculations but the more WAR provided by one player the easier it should be to have a higher WAR as a team, of course ignoring the disaster that is the Angels.

Lanidrac
3 years ago
Reply to  jaysfan39

Actually, it’s more like 1 WAR = $2M, 2 WAR = $5M, etc. Once you get to the superstar level is where you see each additional WAR costing an additional $8-9M or more.

It’s not that the superstars are all that undervalued by the flawed $/WAR theory but that the lesser players are really overvalued by it.

MikeD
3 years ago
Reply to  matt

How do we know if he’s not above all those players? There’s numbers 41-1 still to come.

MikeD
3 years ago
Reply to  MikeD

Answering my own question here. I hadn’t read the companion piece about those who just missed with Devers on it.

68FCMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  MikeD

He was in the honorable mentions as having just missed the list.

Lanidrac
3 years ago
Reply to  matt

That’s true, and contract value does play a role in this list, but it’s much more about the total WAR over the remaining contract years that $/WAR in this case.

diamonddores
3 years ago

drove down to PHX this past Friday to see Soto vs Gallen and had such a pleasant experience despite the 113-degree temperatures. Gallen has awesome stuff. And Soto was a joy to watch interact with his teammates and the fans out in RF

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
3 years ago

With Trout making $37m and dropping off a cliff I’m surprised he’s even on the list by these criteria

diamonddores
3 years ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

Trout seems better suited for the NFL at this point. Built like a brickhouse and only needs to play 16 games a season.

Lanidrac
3 years ago
Reply to  diamonddores

Well, 17 games now, plus the playoffs.

TerryMc
3 years ago
Reply to  Lanidrac

Fortunately Trout has never had to worry about extra games in the playoffs.

v2miccaMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

He’s currently 12th among position players in fWAR. And even with his reduced playing time is on pace for a 6+ fWAR season. If that is falling off of a cliff, I’ll take my parachute.

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  v2micca

I meant the 5 year projection to fall off a cliff. He’s still on flat ground now. My comment has more to do with questioning the validity of these criteria

Last edited 3 years ago by Ivan_Grushenko
TheGarrettCooperFanClub
3 years ago

Man, I really must be missing something on Arozarena. Corner-only (and not a particularly good defender), high GB%, his power is a .175 ISO, OBP is barely above .300, this is the second-straight year of ugly Statcast numbers, he’s not really young anymore either, and he’s projected for ~2 WAR a season during his team control years. He steals bases at least? I guess that’s something. It seems to me like you can find this player in free agency in February. Sure, you may be paying him more than Arozarena’s arb-controlled salary, but you also don’t have to give up the prospect capital to acquire him.

Am I just really missing something with him? I thought he was way too high last year, and I still think he’s too high.

airforce21oneMember since 2026
3 years ago

I don’t get this either. Awful lot of players on the HM list that I would rather have vs Arozarena. I feel like his brand is still inflated by that incredible playoff run he had?

PC1970Member since 2024
3 years ago

& the other thing on Arozarena is he’s not that young. He’s already 27, so it’s not like he’s some 22 year old you can still dream on.

He’s who he is at this point & there’s a much greater chance he’s going to just decline from here on out then show any real gains.

68FCMember since 2020
3 years ago

He is going to get non-tendered or traded in a salary dump before he reaches free agency. Part of that is just because it’s the Rays, but that feels like a player that doesn’t have top 50 trade value.

joelbarlow
3 years ago

The Trout ranking/conversation/contract is fascinating to me because we absolutely whipsaw on these guys faster than we realize. In 2019 this website wrote about his contract as a huge bargain, absurd, Trout leaving so much value on the table etc.

And while that may be true in some abstract sense, baseball continues to operate in a dummy market where half (more?) the teams operate on an artificially low budget. Trout’s salary and projections of like 4 WAR simply are not attractive to many teams and like, if the Tigers traded for him and he spent his 30s as Ken Griffey2, people in Detroit would probably not feel like he was a bargain.

airforce21oneMember since 2026
3 years ago
Reply to  joelbarlow

Whipsaw for sure. It’s also now apparently laughable that Seattle would consider taking Juan Soto straight up for Julio Rodriguez.

J Rod is a great prospect, but it wasn’t that long ago that Soto was the next Ted Williams (at least on this website, and many others).

68FCMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  airforce21one

All of these things can be true at once. Trout’s deal was a bargain because he was getting paid in line with Harper and Machado. Since then he is 5th in MLB in fWAR, Harper is 14th, Machado 20th. Each year the remainder of the deal is less valuable since all of the big contracts have their value frontloaded when the player is a superstar. The backend of the deal is usually underwater, but the benefit is in the first few years when they produce $60M+ in value. Trout still has a couple years left in the value stage of his contract before the backend and while many teams wouldn’t be willing to take on his contract, there are some who would.

As for Soto, he still is an amazing player and the closest thing we’ve seen to Ted Williams since Ted Williams himself, the difference is he is only under contract for 2.5 years at $20M+ and Julio is under contract for 5.5 years, half of those at the minimum. Julio only needs to be 60% of the player Soto is to be more valuable.

Anon21Member since 2018
3 years ago
Reply to  68FC

As for Soto, he still is an amazing player and the closest thing we’ve seen to Ted Williams since Ted Williams himself, the difference is he is only under contract for 2.5 years at $20M+ and Julio is under contract for 5.5 years, half of those at the minimum. Julio only needs to be 60% of the player Soto is to be more valuable.

Also once you start saying “would Team X trade Y for Z straight up,” you’re introducing factors that this analysis isn’t designed to consider, namely the current team’s competitive posture. Seattle wouldn’t do that trade because they’d be robbing Peter to pay Paul–you don’t trade good major league players at a position of need to get a guy to help you win now.

Lanidrac
3 years ago
Reply to  68FC

Nah, Pujols in his prime was closer to Ted Williams that Soto is or likely will ever be.

bookbookMember since 2024
3 years ago
Reply to  Lanidrac

Pujols was better on defense than Ted or Soto, even with the planter fasciitis

68FCMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  Lanidrac

Pujols never had a BB% over 16.4%. Williams was at 20.6% over his career, Soto is at 18.9% on his career and over 20% each of the last 3 seasons.

The Soto profile matches Williams almost exactly. A defensively limited lefty OF with an elite eye and good, but not quite elite power.

joelbarlow
3 years ago
Reply to  68FC

but it isn’t a 5 year contract where you can ride that gentle slope downwards. there are many many many years left.

Anon21Member since 2018
3 years ago
Reply to  joelbarlow

The bigger factor on the Trout adjustment is that the outlook has changed for the worse since that article. He was durable through the first year of that new deal, but after that he just hasn’t stayed healthy. If he were producing on a rate basis like he has since 2019, but had recorded more than 600 PAs in 2021 and 2022, he might still be a top-10 guy.

kid
3 years ago

Subjectively it seems like the “solid glove/light bat” names are always the ones that evaporate off these rankings.

Arozarena – Like others, baffled by how he manages to outslug his Savant expectations every season by 50-100 points. Combined with the baserunning and defense that FG rates as negatives for his career… Feels like a very fragile profile and an odd inclusion on the list.

Carlson – Through 1,000 PA, a perfectly average player. ZiPS thinks there’s more power than he’s shown, I think he’d have done it already if he had it in him. Barrel rate going down, exit velo going down, xSLG going down. Pass.

WerthlessMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  kid

They didn’t learn from the Verdugo and Madrigal mistakes from last year. Or, the “shouldn’t we think the player is above average before making the top 50 values” mistake.

Last edited 3 years ago by Werthless
Lanidrac
3 years ago
Reply to  kid

Since when is a career wRC+ of 107 (and 112 from 2021-22 so far) and above-average defense considered “a perfectly average player”? If that were true, his wRC+ would be 100 and his defense only average.

Carlson is also probably still developing and going to get even better. Most hitters don’t reach their peaks after only 1044 MLB PAs.

Last edited 3 years ago by Lanidrac
Dmjn53
3 years ago
Reply to  Lanidrac

A 107 wRC+ with above average corner outfield defense is exactly what a “perfectly average player” looks like.

MRDXolMember since 2021
3 years ago

Mystery player absent from the top 50:

Age 29
Up the middle defender
Top 20 in position player fWAR since ‘19
Two bargain-price years of control remaining

CC AFCMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  MRDXol

Deez?

HappyFunBallMember since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  MRDXol

If you’re talking about Tim Anderson, he was discussed in the HMs article.

MRDXolMember since 2021
3 years ago
Reply to  HappyFunBall

Yes, I’m complaining about that placement. Compare him to say Pete Alonso. Both have 2 years till FA which should cost pretty similarly: $12.5M and $14M team options for TA, Arb-2 and Arb-3 for Alonso, whose traditional stats should ensure he’s well compensated. Since Alonso debuted/Anderson broke out in the same year, 2019, we can compare results since then: 13.8 total WAR for Anderson, 10.5 for Alonso, but Alonso did so in a lot more PA: 5.2 WAR/600 for Anderson, 3.2 WAR/600 for Alonso. Anderson is clearly the better player, plays a much more important position, and he’ll be probably be cheaper too.

Compare, say, Matt Olson to Alonso for arb numbers: Olson got $5M in arb-1, Alonso $7.4M arb-1. Olson was projected to get $12M before getting traded & extended, so I’d expect Alonso to get ~$15M for ‘23 and $21M for ‘24 assuming he performs as usual. If I’m not insane on those arb numbers, ~$36M for those two years of Alonso vs $26.5M for Anderson is just a no-brainer.

sogoodlooking
3 years ago

“The only thing holding [Pete Alonso’s] value back (other than the aforementioned defense) is his impending free agency; he’ll make his second trip through arbitration this winter.”

And Juan Soto is Alonso plus about 1.5 WAR per year. A terrific player, but generational?

I know, I know–but hear me out. Career to date, Soto has been worth just 5.7 WAR per 650 PA. He’s very slow for a 23 year old and if he doesn’t belong at DH now he will, soon enough. So why is everyone thinking that with Soto getting something like $60m in arb, that he’s still worth a very big bite out of a team’s farm system?

If the Mets deal for Soto, for example, sending a package including Alvarez, Baty, and Vientos to the Nats, they’ve just created three holes on their roster those guys were a decent bet to fill in 2023, all for the privilege of about $32m total in surplus value in 2023 and 2024 *plus* having to get a catcher, 3Bman, and DH–or live with the modest talents currently present.

I confess the talk about Soto at the moment baffles me. A great, great hitter, but overall? He’s worth about 60% of peak Trout, a little more than that wrt Betts, and since Soto got to the league he hasn’t quite put up Marcus Semien’s production. What’s going on? Why the lack of context in the general discussion?

Pepper Martin
3 years ago
Reply to  sogoodlooking

I totally agree with you, and I am absolutely baffled by how valuable people think Soto is. The track record of players who need to move to DH in their early 20’s is… not great, and it seems like his decline in BABIP this year is largely due to a decline in foot speed, which… see how that played out for Frank Thomas in his 30’s? Which is basically where Soto is now?

MRDXolMember since 2021
3 years ago
Reply to  Pepper Martin

Soto’s foot speed and defense are down this year because he isn’t pushing himself and risking injury on a godawful team with owners who refuse to offer to pay him remotely close what he’s worth. The guy is not done with his age-23 season and is already top-30 all-time for WAR thru age 23; practically everyone else on that list is a Hall of Famer besides like Shoeless Joe Jackson and Alex Rodriguez. He’s projected— median projection!— to put up nearly 8 WAR for the next 3 years. This is deranged.

Dmjn53
3 years ago
Reply to  MRDXol

You have absolutely not idea how much he is or isn’t pushing himself, unless you have an inside source

willl
3 years ago
Reply to  Dmjn53

The exact same thing happened with Harper’s defense: -3.0, -7.9, -21.5, -1.4, -2.7. Guess which one was his contract year.

With Soto: 1.4, -3.9, -1.1, -11.3. I’ll let you guess at what point the Nats no longer had anything to play for.

But either way, it’s pretty clear that at age 23, Soto isn’t entering some calamitous defensive decline. And even if we accept that Frank Thomas is an appropriate Soto comp (which is a silly comp, because Soto is merely a slightly below average defensive RFer while Thomas was always a very poor defensive 1B), Thomas didn’t move away from 1B until his age 30 season, so we can still expect Soto to play RF for another 6 full seasons before he becomes a full time DH.

archibaldyeats
3 years ago
Reply to  Dmjn53

Check out Rosenthal’s latest column in The Athletic , if you can, and he discusses Soto not playing 100% full-bore on defense and shirking off plays because he’s not entirely focused at the moment due to National’s situation. (And yes that brings up it’s own red flags itself, I think.)

jmbarton13
3 years ago
Reply to  sogoodlooking

Agreed. I find it incredibly interesting that we’ve spent the last 15-20 years discussing WAR as a stat that looks at the whole ball player. I don’t think anyone would suggest that WAR is perfect, but it does a pretty good job looking at batting, fielding, and base running in one metric.

Soto is one of the 5 worst defensive outfielders by any measure and an argument can be made that he’s the worst. The underlying measurables support the defensive ratings. He has average reaction times with poor speed and bad routes.

If we’re to believe that WAR is valid statistic, why should discount it in Soto’s case? How do you properly value a generational hitter that’s a DH at age 23?

68FCMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  jmbarton13

Look at 2018 Bryce Harper for the explanation for Soto’s defensive numbers this year. He was a plus defensive outfielder in 2019 & 2021, it’s a little early to declare him a DH.

HappyFunBallMember since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  jmbarton13

It’s worth noting that WAR is a sabremetric statistic, and not necessarily the standard by which real MLB front offices judge players.

Similarly it is worth noting that the bloviations of media pundits is also not the standard by which real MLB front offices judge players.

Lastly, I don’t expect to see Juan Soto at number one on this list.

willl
3 years ago
Reply to  jmbarton13

Soto is one of the 5 worst defensive outfielders by any measure and an argument can be made that he’s the worst.

Citation needed.

This is so hyperbolic and wrong, it’s hardly worth replying to. But let me know how you could possibly use statistical evidence to back up this assertion. Here’s the data, let me know where Soto is in the bottom five: https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=of&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=1500&type=1&season=2022&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2019-01-01&enddate=2022-12-31&sort=22,d&page=2_30

tung_twista
3 years ago
Reply to  sogoodlooking

Hitter WAR through age 22 season in the last 50 years

1. Mike Trout 29.2
2. Alex Rodriguez 20.8
3. Ken Griffey Jr. 19.7
4. Bryce Harper 19.4
5. Juan Soto 18.8

Remember, this includes the pandemic shortened 2020 when Soto hit wrc+ 201 and it would have been pretty easy for Soto to rack up >2 WAR in a full season.

Very few non-generational players average “just” 5.7WAR/PA by age 23 and most of them have much small sample sizes.

WerthlessMember since 2020
3 years ago

Phillies fan here. Spencer Strider and Pablo Lopez are both worth a lot more than a bunch of these league average position players. Cheap 2 WAR guys are not worth more than cheap near aces.

Aaron Nola, possible too, although less team control than the above two guys.

Lanidrac
3 years ago
Reply to  Werthless

None of the position players on this list are merely league average players.

DylanMember since 2016
3 years ago

Heck, if we named these rankings after anyone, it would be Trout.

How quickly we forget Evan Longoria. I still half expect to see him near the top of the list.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  Dylan

Jose Ramirez had quite a run too.

tung_twista
3 years ago

It’s a silly exercise, but I’m pretty sure it is the Angels, not the Marines, who would say no to France<->Trout swap deal.
Or really, the Angels probably say no to swap with any of the other players on today’s list.
Which begs the question “Who is the least trade valuable player that Angels would be willing to accept for a 1-to-1 swap with Trout?”

sox34
3 years ago
Reply to  tung_twista

Agreed. Mariners would trade France for everyone below him plus several honorable mentions.

sox34
3 years ago

Ketel Marte that high on the list is baffling.

rye890
3 years ago

Arozarena doesn’t belong anywhere near this list. I’d rather have a somewhat highly regarded prospect than him if I ran a team. He’s an average outfielder those grow on trees.

Lanidrac
3 years ago
Reply to  rye890

Granted, his defense is poor, but he put up 3.9 fWAR last year and still has a 115 wRC+ in a down year this year. That’s more than average.

soddingjunkmailMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  rye890

The Guardians need to find one of those trees.

shaq_diesel
3 years ago

BTV really dampened how much I used to look forward to this exercise.

Adam SMember since 2016
3 years ago

I know the list is trade value not projected zWAR – estimated salary. But I have to believe a hitter like Ty France would get more in trade than the two pitchers immediately above him given that pitchers break all the time. And thus for Gallen, as an example, you’re really looking at two seasons of 3 WAR and one season where he misses significant time due to injury.

nicholasjMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  Adam S

Completely agree. Ms wouldn’t trade France for either of those pitchers

Ben HallMember since 2016
3 years ago

I was surprised to see Arraez, given that he wasn’t even an honorable mention last year. Perhaps teams have access to better data, but his advanced stats at Baseball Savant are pretty much the same as last year. With the exception of last year, he’s always outperformed his expected batting average, but last year’s xBA and this year’s are within two points of each other (.295 and .293), so he seems very likely to come down quite a bit from .340, though still to an excellent average.