2023 Trade Value: Nos. 11-20

As is tradition at FanGraphs, we’re using the lead-up to the trade deadline to take stock of the top 50 players in baseball by trade value. For a more detailed introduction to this year’s exercise, as well as a look at the players who fell just short of the top 50, be sure to read the Introduction and Honorable Mentions piece, which can be found in the widget above.
For those of you who have been reading the Trade Value Series the last few seasons, the format should look familiar. For every player, you’ll see a table with the player’s projected five-year WAR from 2024-2028, courtesy of Dan Szymborski’s ZiPS projections. The table will also include the player’s guaranteed money, if any, the year through which their team has contractual control of them, last year’s rank (if applicable), and then projections, contract status, and age for each individual season through 2028 (if the player is under contract or team control for those seasons). Last year’s rank includes a link to the relevant 2022 post. Thanks are due to Sean Dolinar for his technical wizardry. At the bottom of the page, there is a grid showing all of the players who have been ranked up to this point.
At this point, we’re into the good stuff. All of these players are hugely valuable, and few are likely to actually get traded. That doesn’t mean this is purely theoretical, but it’s something approaching that. Like most lists, ordinal rankings can be deceiving; there isn’t an equal value gap separating every spot on the list. I’ve tried to mention where there are large gaps, but don’t read too much into someone being 14th instead of 13th. There just isn’t much difference between those two spots, and both players are a lot more valuable than the guy ranked 21st.
With that out of the way, let’s get to the next batch of players.
| Five-Year WAR | 18.2 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | $29.7 M |
| Team Control Through | 2025 |
| Previous Rank | #21 |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2024 | 26 | 3.8 | $12.1 M |
| 2025 | 27 | 4.0 | $17.6 M |
Heading into 2023, this is not the Jays player I expected to rate the highest. For all the time I’ve put into broadening and deepening my understanding of baseball over the years, I’m still a Moneyball guy at heart, and Bichette doesn’t fit that aesthetic. That’s underselling it, even; Bichette swings like he’s afraid today is the last day he’ll ever be allowed to.
Do you know the truth about that book, though? It wasn’t really about walks. It was about how on-base percentage was undervalued by the market, and how the A’s capitalized on that by trading for players whose best skill was taking a free base. Bichette gets on base the hard way — by smacking laser beams all around the field — and his career .341 OBP is hardly an illusion. His combination of contact and power is rare, and you can see why he swings so often given that fact; he’s emphasizing the best part of his game as frequently as humanly possible.
We’re on year five of the Bichette experience, and his batting line works out roughly the same every time. That’s enviable consistency, but consistency isn’t the only important thing. I wouldn’t shell out this amount of value for a guy who was stone cold guaranteed to produce a 100 wRC+. Bichette is consistently excellent, and that’s an entirely different proposition. His production doesn’t always look pretty. He’s streaky as hell. His baserunning is all over the place. But since his debut, only Corey Seager and Xander Bogaerts have out-hit him among shortstops (Fernando Tatis Jr. used to fit the bill, but he’s an outfielder now).
Like those two comps, Bichette isn’t exactly a Gold Glover out there. That’s the biggest knock on him at this point. But stapling that nice-for-a-corner-outfielder bat onto a 45 shortstop makes for an All-Star with upside. He’ll have to move down the defensive spectrum at some point, and he’s not a natural fit for either second or third base given his skill set, but that’s an issue for whoever signs him in free agency, not for whoever has him for the remainder of this deal.
| Five-Year WAR | 19.8 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | $105.0 M |
| Team Control Through | 2028 |
| Previous Rank | #7 |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2024 | 31 | 5.6 | $17.0 M |
| 2025 | 32 | 4.9 | $19.0 M |
| 2026 | 33 | 4.0 | $21.0 M |
| 2027 | 34 | 3.1 | $23.0 M |
| 2028 | 35 | 2.2 | $25.0 M |
It’s wild to me that Ramírez has been doing it for so long. His first 5-WAR season was in 2016. He trails only Mike Trout and Mookie Betts in WAR since then. He’s what you’d get if you took the above-average-at-everything players I like so much and then turned every dial up another few notches.
He runs well. He fields well. He hits the ball hard despite his small stature, and he does a great job of getting to his power thanks to a lift-and-pull approach. He makes an outrageous amount of contact for someone with his batted ball mix. He’s a strike zone genius, running double-digit walk rates and Arraez-ian strikeout rates. He cracks 30 bombs a year but still hits for average. Frankly, he seems like something out of science fiction, the idealized version of a 5-foot-9 baseball player.
Several people pointed out Ramírez’s downside to me. He already has old-player skills, he’s not getting any younger, and his exit velocities are trending down (albeit only slightly), which might be the canary in the coal mine for a broader physical decline. If Ramírez stops kicking out value in every phase of the game the way he has for the better part of a decade, he might be more plus than plus-plus, to use some of my favorite baseball terminology. He’s also no longer on an ultra-cheap contract; maybe he’s not paid like a superstar, but he’s no longer making peanuts.
My counterpoint: Ramírez is a unicorn, and his true best skill is maximizing his physical tools. There aren’t many players in baseball who I’d rather bet on making the most out of what they’re given. He’s a direct analog to Betts, only for a lower AAV and with his contract skipping the low-value seasons from age 36 to 39. I’d sooner move Betts up – and I probably didn’t write enough about him in the Honorable Mentions given how close I was to throwing him on the list despite the gargantuan contract – than move Ramírez further down.
| Five-Year WAR | 13.9 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2029 |
| Previous Rank | HM |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2024 | 21 | 2.4 | Pre-Arb |
| 2025 | 22 | 2.6 | Pre-Arb |
| 2026 | 23 | 2.9 | Pre-Arb |
| 2027 | 24 | 3.0 | Arb 1 |
| 2028 | 25 | 3.0 | Arb 2 |
I guess I can’t blame the Marlins for trying to keep Pérez’s innings count manageable, but it’s a bummer that he’s going to miss some time on purpose this year. He’s the real deal, absolutely electric across the board, and I think he’s already one of the best pitchers in baseball. The Marlins take “get your pitchers to the majors as soon as they’re ready” seriously; Pérez is only 20, and despite consistently aggressive assignments, he shredded the minors en route to his debut. He has four plus pitches already, and he’s displaying above-average command against a caliber of hitter he’d never previously faced.
Thanks to a delayed debut and his current minor league rest stint, Pérez will be a Marlin through the 2029 season. Thanks to those same shenanigans, he won’t even qualify for Super-2 status, which means he’s going to be making peanuts for the next four years. There haven’t been pitchers like him in a little while; the closest examples I can think of appear higher on the list, and even they weren’t as cheap for as long, or as good at such a young age.
ZiPS is a lot lower than I am on Pérez, and I can understand why. It has to be conservative because it surely can’t find many similar trajectories to base his off of. Without getting into the minutiae of how projection systems work, it’s a safe bet to assume they regress more towards the mean when the players are less modelable. That’s all well and good, but I get to use more tools than just projections, and every other arrow is pointing straight up for Pérez. Talent evaluators drooled over him when I brought him up, and one said “Wow, this sounds high, but I guess it’s not.”
There are three things I find myself doing more than previous proprietors of this list. I’ve thrown more long-contract and big-contract guys on here than my predecessors, and I’m still working on finding the right balance there. I like to fill the 41-50 range with cheap, controllable guys with average-player floors. Finally, and most importantly here, I’m pretty aggressive with rookies who can stay afloat in the bigs right away. I’m not saying I’m definitely right – I slapped big values on Bobby Witt Jr. and Jeremy Peña last year, and then moved them down based on more evidence – but that’s the mindset I’m using to rate Pérez. He’s tremendous, and he’s going to be on the same team for a long time at a miserly rate.
| Five-Year WAR | 15.1 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | $43.9 M |
| Team Control Through | 2027 |
| Previous Rank | #10 |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2024 | 28 | 3.7 | $9.3 M |
| 2025 | 29 | 3.4 | $17.3 M |
| 2026 | 30 | 3.0 | $17.3 M |
| 2027 | 31 | 2.6 | $21.0 M |
How much are teams willing to pay for volume? That’s the question Alcantara poses, and this year has driven that point home even further. His 2022 Cy Young wasn’t due to being completely unhittable; it was due to being great over an outrageous number of innings. Since the pandemic goofed up pitcher workloads in 2020, no one other than Alcantara has topped 210 innings in a season; he checked in at 228.2 last year. That, plus career-best run prevention (2.28 ERA, 2.99 FIP), earned him the award in unanimous fashion.
This year, he’s been meaningfully worse, and that decline hits double for players who get a lot of value from their workload. As I noted last month, it’s a multiplicative effect; Alcantara’s differentiating factor is skill times innings, and that innings number is a big one. Dropping the skill factor hurts more because there are more innings for it to hurt in, and it’s not like he was ever the best pitcher in baseball on a rate basis, so he relied on that multiple to stand out.
What does it mean for his trade value? To me, it means that he’s more of a 3-4 WAR pitcher who will occasionally spike a huge season than he is a Scherzerian presence. The volume is worth something too, even if it can’t be captured by WAR; protecting your bullpen has value, and Alcantara is uniquely suited to eat innings. You get that for four more years at reasonable rates, and the fourth year is even a team option.
I don’t think there’s an argument for taking the pitchers from the tier below – Gallen, Valdez, and Kirby – over Alcantara. He gives you a lot of the same stuff as them, only for longer (Gallen/Valdez) or at a higher expected level (Kirby). I wouldn’t fault you for taking Pérez over him depending on personal preference, though; at various points, I considered doing so myself.
There’s one potential complication: What if Alcantara just isn’t that good? What if his true talent is that of a 4.00-ERA workhorse? That’s a risk, but I don’t think it’s a particularly large one, and it’s offset by the benefits of all the extra innings you might get if that risk fails to materialize. I like betting on great athletes who’ve already had huge seasons. Would it really be that surprising if Alcantara turned in another sub-3.00 ERA next year? I don’t think so, and I think I’m in a comfortable majority of talent evaluators there.
| Five-Year WAR | 20.1 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | $90.0 M |
| Team Control Through | 2028 |
| Previous Rank | #25 |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2024 | 27 | 4.5 | $8.0 M |
| 2025 | 28 | 4.3 | $12.0 M |
| 2026 | 29 | 4.1 | $23.0 M |
| 2027 | 30 | 3.7 | $23.0 M |
| 2028 | 31 | 3.5 | $24.0 M |
If I didn’t see Webb frequently – as a San Francisco resident, I catch him in person several times a year – I might think he was just a figment of data. He’s almost impossibly consistent, and consistent around a round number to boot. Since 2021, his breakout season, he has a 3.00 ERA, a 3.02 FIP, and a 3.03 xFIP. He’s compiled 4.1 and 4.2 WAR in his last two full seasons, and he’s on pace for 4.5 this year. Heck, even ZiPS is picking up what he’s putting down; look at that pile of WAR projections, all nice and clustered.
Webb would have been a free agent after the 2025 season, but he and the Giants agreed to an extension that will keep him around through 2028. He would have been on this list regardless, but three extra years at sub-ace dollar values kicks him up a notch. He’s durable and consistent. “Pitchers don’t age, they break” is a useful concept when thinking about the risk of long-term contracts for guys who put incredible strain on their elbows for a living. I’m not saying Webb is immune to that, but the people I talked to who care about such things think that Webb’s mechanics are helpfully simple, and that’s a nice feather in his cap.
I think this is about as high as I’ll ever put a pitcher with Webb’s skill set on a trade value list. Because his game relies on so many balls in play, there’s a cap on his run prevention skills. In some ways, he’s West Coast Alcantara. He’s also a big volume guy; he already has 11 starts of seven innings or longer this year. If he has a down year stuff-wise, he’s going to look very average out there. That’s the deal when you’re talking about sinker-dominant pitchers.
Still, admit it: You’d want your team to trade for Logan Webb, even if the prospect cost made you slightly uncomfortable. He’s like a security blanket; every time he starts, you’ll feel good about the team’s chances. He’s only 26. His contract is modest in modern baseball terms, so you don’t have to worry about him getting in the way of signing, say, Shohei Ohtani. Maybe contact-oriented pitchers have a ceiling, but Webb is at that ceiling right now.
| Five-Year WAR | 21.5 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | $67.0 M |
| Team Control Through | 2032 |
| Previous Rank | HM |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2024 | 23 | 3.9 | $5.0 M |
| 2025 | 24 | 4.3 | $8.0 M |
| 2026 | 25 | 4.4 | $8.0 M |
| 2027 | 26 | 4.6 | $9.0 M |
| 2028 | 27 | 4.3 | $10.0 M |
Man, I’m such a sucker for this exact skill set. Harris is a premium defender with Gold Gloves in his future. He hits the snot out of the ball. He’s on a bargain of a contract that will keep him around forever with annual values from a bygone era. There’s just one question: Can he hit?
If this sounds a lot like Ke’Bryan Hayes to you, well, you’re not wrong. I like Harris’ offense more than I liked Hayes’, but their issues are pretty similar. They both hit the ball into the ground a lot, so those pretty exit velocities don’t come with the power you’d expect. They both have an aggressive approach that puts a lid on their walk rate, and they both strike out plenty.
Harris has made it work for longer at the major league level than Hayes ever did, which gives me a little hope. He’s a tremendous defender; if it turns out that he’s a 95-100 wRC+ bat, that’s Kevin Kiermaier with the Rays, a famously valuable player. Kiermaier is a lofty defensive comp, but Harris looks like he might be in that general echelon; he has huge range and a cannon arm.
There’s also this: Harris had more plate appearances in his good-bat 2022 season than he’s had so far in a down 2023. He’s hitting closer to what I expected him to do coming up, but his career line still looks solid, and projection systems think he’s a slightly above-average hitter. His approach has actually improved, too. He still swings too much, but he’s headed towards average, which is always a reassuring sign. And even if I’m wrong, his contract is so team-friendly – he’s making less than $10 million a year on average over the next seven years.
I’ve been wrong on players just like this before. I like dreaming on good defenders starting to hit more, and I know it. But Harris just checks so many boxes that I can’t help myself. I even had him higher earlier on before talking myself down just a hair. I love premium defenders, particularly young ones on long guaranteed contracts. I like betting on players with top-shelf raw power, or at least its exit velocity proxy. If I’m wrong, so be it. These are the kinds of players I’d target if I were a big league GM.
| Five-Year WAR | 18.6 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | $27.5 M |
| Team Control Through | 2027 |
| Previous Rank | #8 |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2024 | 26 | 3.9 | $12.5 M |
| 2025 | 27 | 4.0 | $15.0 M |
| 2026 | 28 | 3.8 | $20.0 M |
| 2027 | 29 | 3.6 | $20.0 M |
Every year, I put Robert higher on this list than I expect to. I come into the exercise worrying about the injury risk. It’s no small matter that if he hits 100 games played this season, it’ll be a career high. I look at his approach and grimace; he’s all gas and no brakes at the plate, which leads to some scary strikeout numbers. If you think of touted prospects from the past who haven’t panned out, injuries and approach are frequent warning signs. This really shouldn’t work.
It does, though, because Robert is just that good. He’s an elite defensive center fielder. He has 70-grade power, and he gets to it in-game because he’s adept at elevating the ball despite a voracious approach to the strike zone. When we wonder about whether someone chases too much, they don’t usually have a career 129 wRC+. There’s more than one way to be a successful hitter, and Robert clearly prioritizes putting his cacophonous power on display as often as possible. Can you blame him after seeing it in action?
Thanks to an early-career extension, Robert is due modest salaries in 2024 and 2025. The White Sox also hold team options for the two years after that, and those are slam dunks if he keeps playing like this. The only reason he’s this low on the list is because I really do worry about his strikeouts, but maybe I’m just too afraid to go out of my hitter evaluation comfort zone.
If you’re looking for a high-variance play, this is your guy. The downside feels very real. What if the strikeouts really get away from him? What if he plays 162 total games over the next two seasons? Are you really picking up those team options on the hope that he’ll stay on the field? His health track record can’t be hand-waved away. But the upside is also tremendous. Robert is a top-five position player in baseball right now, and if he’s healthy I don’t see that changing.
| Five-Year WAR | 18.5 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | $197 M |
| Team Control Through | 2033 |
| Previous Rank | #22 |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2024 | 27 | 4.3 | $21.0 M |
| 2025 | 28 | 4.3 | $22.0 M |
| 2026 | 29 | 3.8 | $22.0 M |
| 2027 | 30 | 3.3 | $22.0 M |
| 2028 | 31 | 2.8 | $22.0 M |
I know, I know: Riley’s offense isn’t up to par this year. His contact quality took a small step back. He looks more like a 125 wRC+ hitter – his line is worse than that, but the underlying statistics all look rosy – than a 140 wRC+ hitter. Panic!
I’m not panicking. Riley is a stud on offense, and a down half-season won’t convince me otherwise. He pummels the ball when he makes contact, and he’s actually making contact at a career-high rate. He puts the ball in the air frequently, and he has enough power to turn those into homers to all fields. Take any hitter short of demigod territory, and they’re bound to have a down stretch once in a while even if their long-term talent is unchanged.
There’s an undeniable risk here. Sometimes a slump is just a slump, but sometimes it’s a new level of performance. I think the smart money is on a short-term blip, but Riley’s ZiPS projections have declined from the offseason (though they’re still up from last year at midseason). Even granting that risk, I’d try to buy in at a discounted rate, because I think Riley is the real deal, and if you acquire him, you’ll have him for a long time.
Only one of the people I consulted in making this list pointed to Riley’s contract as a worry, and I’ll give you the same response I gave them. I just can’t get that worried about a contract that ends in his age-35 season. Honestly, it’s almost a benefit; the alternative would be having him leave in a few years, and those back years aren’t likely to be huge overpays. $22 million a season isn’t a millstone-level contract these days. I model contractual commitments with some time value of money and some general future discounting, and for players who aren’t on the wrong side of 30, I generally prefer more years of control to less, even if the rates aren’t a huge bargain. (For what it’s worth, the purely-modeled version of this list, before I touched it at all or asked for any feedback, had Riley 15th.)
And there are even some exciting developments on the Riley front this year. He’s looking better on the defensive end, and that was my least favorite part of his game before this season. He’s a lot more valuable playing third base than moving to first, and I think he’s a lock to stay at the hot corner for the next half-decade now. If you think Riley might just be an okay hitter who spiked two incredible years, this ranking is too high. But I think he’s an excellent hitter with rock-solid underlying metrics, and I’d feel pretty great if I could pencil him into my lineup for most of the next decade.
| Five-Year WAR | 19.2 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | $69.0 M |
| Team Control Through | 2029 |
| Previous Rank | #37 |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2024 | 29 | 4.9 | $9.0 M |
| 2025 | 30 | 4.2 | $15.0 M |
| 2026 | 31 | 3.9 | $15.0 M |
| 2027 | 32 | 3.4 | $15.0 M |
| 2028 | 33 | 2.8 | $15.0 M |
Jeez, Braves, let someone else play for once. Atlanta is positively awash in great players, with longtime trade value darling Murphy just another example. The guy just does everything. He’s always been an elite defensive catcher. His 2021 season (100 wRC+, 3.3 WAR in 448 PA) felt like a preview of a Molina-eque career to come. Now, he also bops.
What can you do other than marvel? I can’t imagine Murphy will keep up this level of offense — catching is exhausting and he’s improved basically every facet of his game this year — but if he keeps even 50% of his gains, he’s going to be a monster. That’s what ZiPS seems to think, and it matches with my own intuition.
In case there weren’t enough things going in Murphy’s favor, he’s a great thrower, so the increased importance of controlling the running game in 2023 makes him look even better. That’s not supposed to be a knock on his other defensive skills, though. He’s also a top-notch receiver and nearly as good as a blocker, something I can say with greater certainty now that Statcast measures blocking directly.
Because this is Atlanta we’re talking about, Murphy signed an extension that will keep him around for a long time just before going on this tear. He has five years and $69 million left after 2023, a club option after that, and I mean, what?!? Who was his agent? Fine, the contract bought out three years of arbitration, but not at particularly lofty rates. Dude posted a 5-WAR season last year – he was already a star when he signed a contract that pays him like Andrew Benintendi.
I’m sad that Murphy doesn’t fit into the top 10 on this list, because he’s a consistent performer whose game I think flies under the radar even after escaping the A’s. If it’s any consolation, he’s a tier ahead of everyone we’ve already talked about today. I don’t think there are any good arguments for having Murphy lower than this spot on the list, and I’d be comfortable putting him as high as sixth. What an awesome player.
| Five-Year WAR | 18.3 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2027 |
| Previous Rank | #20 |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2024 | 27 | 4.1 | Pre-Arb |
| 2025 | 28 | 3.9 | Arb 1 |
| 2026 | 29 | 3.7 | Arb 2 |
| 2027 | 30 | 3.4 | Arb 3 |
McClanahan is an ace-level pitcher with eye-popping stuff. He sits 96-98 and touches 100 mph when he needs to. His changeup is off-the-charts good. His breaking balls turn hitters into pretzels. He’s scuffled a tiny bit with command this year, but his career numbers look solid. It’s hard to post numbers like his by accident.
Due to some injuries early in his career, the Rays have been quite cautious with his innings counts, but he’s been sneaky durable. He missed a few turns around the All-Star break for maintenance reasons, but he’s started the same number of games as Framber Valdez in the last three seasons, and more than Blake Snell or Shane Bieber, to name some well-regarded hurlers.
Now, does he come with risk? Absolutely. He doesn’t have an especially long track record of success; 71 starts is just not a lot when you’re trying to predict how good someone will be for the next four years. But that’s the reason he’s so high on this list: You get him for the next four years. I don’t think there’s much chance that McClanahan is actively bad. It’s just a question of how good he is and whether he’ll stay healthy.
If he pitches like a number one starter for the next four years, I have him too low. If he misses a year and a half with a major arm injury, I have him too high. That’s the balance of risks here. Pitchers with this combination of stuff, track record, and team control don’t come along very often. When they do, they’re among the most valuable players in the game.
| Rk | Pv | Player | Age | 2024 | 2025 | 2026 | 2027 | 2028 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 11 | 20 | Shane McClanahan | 26 | 4.1 Pre-Arb |
3.9 Arb 1 |
3.7 Arb 2 |
3.4 Arb 3 |
|
| 12 | 37 | Sean Murphy | 28 | 4.9 $9.0 M |
4.2 $15.0 M |
3.9 $15.0 M |
3.4 $15.0 M |
2.8 $15.0 M |
| 13 | 22 | Austin Riley | 26 | 4.3 $21.0 M |
4.3 $22.0 M |
3.8 $22.0 M |
3.3 $22.0 M |
2.8 $22.0 M |
| 14 | 8 | Luis Robert Jr. | 25 | 3.9 $12.5 M |
4.0 $15.0 M |
3.8 $20.0 M |
3.6 $20.0 M |
|
| 15 | HM | Michael Harris II | 22 | 3.9 $5.0 M |
4.3 $8.0 M |
4.4 $8.0 M |
4.6 $9.0 M |
4.3 $10.0 M |
| 16 | 25 | Logan Webb | 26 | 4.5 $8.0 M |
4.3 $12.0 M |
4.1 $23.0 M |
3.7 $23.0 M |
3.5 $24.0 M |
| 17 | 10 | Sandy Alcantara | 27 | 3.7 $9.3 M |
3.4 $17.3 M |
3.0 $17.3 M |
2.6 $21.0 M |
|
| 18 | HM | Eury Pérez | 20 | 2.4 Pre-Arb |
2.6 Pre-Arb |
2.9 Pre-Arb |
3.0 Arb 1 |
3.0 Arb 2 |
| 19 | 7 | José Ramírez | 30 | 5.6 $17.0 M |
4.9 $19.0 M |
4.0 $21.0 M |
3.1 $23.0 M |
2.2 $25.0 M |
| 20 | 21 | Bo Bichette | 25 | 3.8 $12.1 M |
4.0 $17.6 M |
|||
| 21 | 17 | Will Smith | 28 | 5.0 Arb 2 |
4.7 Arb 3 |
|||
| 22 | 28 | Framber Valdez | 29 | 4.0 Arb 2 |
3.5 Arb 3 |
|||
| 23 | HM | Francisco Alvarez | 21 | 3.5 Pre-Arb |
4.2 Pre-Arb |
4.7 Arb 1 |
5.0 Arb 2 |
5.3 Arb 3 |
| 24 | 45 | Zac Gallen | 27 | 3.8 Arb 2 |
3.5 Arb 3 |
|||
| 25 | 26 | Shohei Ohtani | 28 | |||||
| 26 | HM | George Kirby | 25 | 3.1 Pre-Arb |
3.1 Pre-Arb |
3.1 Arb 1 |
3.0 Arb 2 |
2.8 Arb 3 |
| 27 | – | Anthony Volpe | 22 | 3.0 Pre-Arb |
3.6 Pre-Arb |
3.9 Arb 1 |
4.2 Arb 2 |
4.1 Arb 3 |
| 28 | – | Matt McLain | 23 | 3.7 Pre-Arb |
4.1 Pre-Arb |
4.3 Pre-Arb |
4.4 Arb 1 |
4.1 Arb 2 |
| 29 | 6 | Juan Soto | 24 | 6.5 Arb 3 |
||||
| 30 | 11 | Kyle Tucker | 26 | 3.8 Arb 2 |
3.8 Arb 3 |
|||
| 31 | 16 | Ozzie Albies | 26 | 4.2 $7.0 M |
4.0 $7.0 M |
3.7 $7.0 M |
3.5 $7.0 M |
|
| 32 | – | Luis Castillo | 30 | 4.2 $24.1 M |
3.8 $24.1 M |
3.3 $24.1 M |
2.8 $24.1 M |
2.3 $25.0 M |
| 33 | HM | Logan Gilbert | 26 | 3.3 Pre-Arb |
3.1 Arb 1 |
2.9 Arb 2 |
2.6 Arb 3 |
|
| 34 | 50 | Randy Arozarena | 28 | 3.5 Arb 2 |
3.2 Arb 3 |
2.7 Arb 4 |
||
| 35 | 9 | Vladimir Guerrero Jr. | 24 | 3.0 Arb 2 |
3.3 Arb 3 |
|||
| 36 | 14 | Bobby Witt Jr. | 23 | 3.2 Pre-Arb |
3.5 Arb 1 |
3.6 Arb 2 |
3.7 Arb 3 |
|
| 37 | 18 | Jeremy Peña | 25 | 2.7 Pre-Arb |
2.8 Arb 1 |
2.7 Arb 2 |
2.5 Arb 3 |
|
| 38 | – | Zach Neto | 22 | 1.6 Pre-Arb |
1.8 Pre-Arb |
1.9 Pre-Arb |
2.1 Arb 1 |
2.2 Arb 2 |
| 39 | 27 | Alejandro Kirk | 24 | 3.1 Arb 1 |
3.1 Arb 2 |
3.1 Arb 3 |
||
| 40 | – | Hunter Brown | 24 | 2.3 Pre-Arb |
2.3 Pre-Arb |
2.3 Arb 1 |
2.2 Arb 2 |
2.2 Arb 3 |
| 41 | HM | Hunter Greene | 23 | 2.5 $3.3 M |
2.6 $6.3 M |
2.7 $8.3 M |
2.8 $15.3 M |
2.7 $16.3 M |
| 42 | 38 | Oneil Cruz | 24 | 2.1 Pre-Arb |
2.4 Pre-Arb |
2.6 Arb 1 |
2.9 Arb 2 |
2.5 Arb 3 |
| 43 | HM | Jordan Walker | 21 | 0.3 Pre-Arb |
0.5 Pre-Arb |
0.6 Arb 1 |
0.7 Arb 2 |
0.8 Arb 3 |
| 44 | 33 | Cedric Mullins | 28 | 3.4 Arb 2 |
2.9 Arb 3 |
|||
| 45 | – | Joe Ryan | 27 | 2.4 Pre-Arb |
2.2 Arb 1 |
1.9 Arb 2 |
1.6 Arb 3 |
|
| 46 | – | Spencer Steer | 25 | 2.1 Pre-Arb |
2.1 Pre-Arb |
2.0 Arb 1 |
1.9 Arb 2 |
1.8 Arb 3 |
| 47 | – | Lars Nootbaar | 25 | 2.3 Pre-Arb |
2.5 Arb 1 |
2.5 Arb 2 |
2.2 Arb 3 |
|
| 48 | 15 | Ke’Bryan Hayes | 26 | 2.5 $7.0 M |
2.5 $7.0 M |
2.1 $7.0 M |
2.0 $7.0 M |
1.7 $8.0 M |
| 49 | – | Josh Jung | 25 | 2.6 Pre-Arb |
2.6 Pre-Arb |
2.6 Arb 1 |
2.4 Arb 2 |
2.2 Arb 3 |
| 50 | – | James Wood | 20 | 0.9 Pre-Arb |
1.4 Pre-Arb |
1.9 Pre-Arb |
2.3 Arb 1 |
2.7 Arb 2 |
Ben is a writer at FanGraphs. He can be found on Bluesky @benclemens.
So trying to guess the top 5…Acuna, Carroll, Rutschman, Franco, ??? Trying to think of a pitcher who’d fit, but i’m drawing a blank! All I can come up with is Strider…but don’t think he’d be there.
Henderson should be in the mix, there.
agree…i’m not personally a huge fan of his, but based on how the list is shaking out, i can see him up there.
He’s 22, a comfortable 4 WAR guy even with his current warts, and has 5 more years of team control.
Is Henderson really top 10 while Jung is 49? Prospect rankings are doing some heavy lifting there.
Age is doing most of the lifting.
Given the attrition rate of starting pitchers, I think it’d be irresponsible for any of them to rank in the top 5.
well, i certainly wouldn’t rank one there…but the list as it is has has 4 pitchers in the 11-20 range, so Ben may have a different view!
Not sure Adley is top 5? Catchers wear down too much, right?
1) Acuna
2) Franco
3) Carroll
4) Julio
5) Tatis
6) Rutschman
7) Gunnar
8) Elly
9) Strider
10) Alvarez
Think that’s low on Gunnar.
Maybe? I wasn’t counting any potential draft pick comp (does this stick if he is traded?) but I guess that with a year of extra control would push him over Adley.
I still think I’d rather have each of my top 5 guys, even Tatis with his contract and off the field issues just because he is sooo good.
I’d probably flip Tatis and Gunnar, just because of the nonsense risk with Tatis, haha!
With Murphy at 12 i think Adley is a no-doubt top 5 guy. Tatis’ contract might push him down a bit. Forgot about Julio…i’d put him in my top 5 along with the other 4 i listed.
I’m shocked that Luzardo was not even mentioned in the entire series.
I’d put Strider there for sure. Also Travis d’Arnaud 100%
As of July 2023, only four GMs have been inducted into the hall of fame. One of those four is Rickey Branch, the man who signed Jackie Robinson and broke the color barrier. I’m giving this context to say that Alex Anthopoulus likely won’t receive serious hall of fame consideration. But, given his moves at the trade deadline in 2021 and his ability to lock down talent on long-term team friendly deals, I think he at least deserves to have his name appear on a ballot at some point.
Theo Epstein’s definitely a lock, and Beane should get some shine as well.
If AA gets another ring or two…
Dave Dombrowski is another.
Won in Montreal, though his best team got shafted by the strike.
Won in Florida, then tore it down & did most of the building for the 2003 WS winner.
Rebuilt Detroit & got them to 5 postseasons & 2 WS trips
Won a WS in Boston
Winning in Philly, made WS last year
I actually thought of him as soon as I pressed “Post,” haha!
Yeah I think that Epstein, Beane, and Dombrowski all should get it. There are other guys who have won a lot like Sabean and he was good but those three are wizards and completely changed how other teams approached stuff. Andrew Friedman is someone like that who could merit consideration someday for the same reasons.
There is another guy in that category like that—Jeff Luhnow. But I would guess, that he has no chance. And that is 100% fair in my book.
Putting Anthopoulus in the HOF because he saved his owner a lot of money… is this a Rob Manfred burner account?
Locking up star talent on team-friendly and long-term deals to make them exceptionally tradeable assets, easy to fit into a team’s core, and leaving money available to make big acquisitions? Honestly sounds like an intelligent move to me. The owner being happy about it is just icing.
Also, lets not forget that’s he’s already hit on some big time draft picks. Harris and Strider, namely, but Grissom still shows a lot of promise.
I think the objection to the Albies and Acuna contracts from those taking the player perspective is that they could have received “life changing money” if they just bought out the arb years. They’re good enough players to have negotiated that. Selling FA years cheap is something they didn’t have to do.
I’d never argue against that, but I don’t think the GM cares much about that. If they somehow did it with everyone, you’d start casting side-eyes, but players often sign below-market contracts for a variety of reasons.
Since when is running a franchise about as close to perfectly as can be done something to be ridiculed?
That’s not way the original comment says.
it’s not a GM’s job to pay players as much as possible, it’s his job to build a sustainable winning team
I mean is he even the most likely Braves GM to be given consideration? Wouldn’t John Scheurholz have a better resume at this point? Having looked at the 4 GMs who did get in, I don’t feel any modern GM other than Epstein really will, but if we’re talking about who would be most deserving I don’t think AA at this point is close. In 5 years if the Braves win another title or 2? Maybe then there’s a debate.
I could be mistaken, but isn’t Scheurholz on the hall already?
Yup he is. There was an ESPN article with only 4 GMs but that was about baseball pioneers. Oddly enough he is the only GM in that section of HoF that I can recognize as being in the time frame I started watching baseball. So I sure picked the wrong guy to make my point lol. Weirdly it’s just him and Bud Selig of all people.
i think the name you are looking for is Branch Rickey
Oops.
I think you underestimate the great Rickey Branch. He’s a combination Rickey Henderson and Cliff Branch
Personally, I think Branch Rickey’s invention of the farm system was an even bigger accomplishment for him than signing Jackie to break the color barrier. For one thing, even if Rickey and Jackie hadn’t broken the color barrier, someone would’ve come along to do it within the next decade or two at worst.
Andrew Friedman’s getting in (many years from now, but still), and you can probably punch Dave Roberts’s ticket, too
SSS theater, but Riley has been hitting the snot out of the ball since the break. Will it continue? Well probably not. But if it’s a sign of regression to a 130 or so WRC mean, then the ranking is more justified.
He Heard me talking shit, apparently
After yesterday, talking about Riley would be beating a dead horse, so I’ll say I honestly don’t see anything else wrong with this. I will say that last year I went on a long, long rant about how undervalued Michael Harris II was and I knew I’d be proven right, and now I want each and every one of my downvoters from last year to admit they were wrong and beg for forgiveness. Don’t be shy!
Michael Harris is such a beast…and he’s fun, too!
Even if he levels out as the 115 wRC+ guy Statcast thinks he is…that’s a 5 win player with his defense!
I also think he will eventually be moved up in the line-up and when that happens there is room for growth in his value as a baserunner.
I grovel at your feet Sir TKDC. Admittedly I was a naysayer and downvoter and have very much been proven wrong. Good on you for sticking to your guns and not falling into the hive mindset.
I don’t think it’s especially wise to put a guy with not even half a season of plate appearances who is vastly outperforming their batted ball numbers on this list. Sometimes you are right with that and sometimes you aren’t. I am sort of talking about Harris but with De La Cruz’s expected ranking I expect to be discussing this a lot again.
EDLC had quite a better prospect pedigree than Harris II, which I think matters.
I mean, Harris was promoted and an above average big leaguer before he even had a chance to shoot up prospect lists. He’s all of 10 months older than EDLC.
I’d probably have Perez at 12 and Murph in the Top 10…but it’s hard to argue with anything else!
I could understand Acuna/Albies/Harris/Strider, from the players’ perspective…but that Sean Murphy extension is absurd.
Harris and Strider were reasonable deals. Acuna’s deal was quite bad, and Albies is the worst post-FA era contract ever.
No idea how the Braves get it done, but they sure do.
Acuna and Albies signed for absolute peanuts as amateurs…and it’s not like Ozzie was an appreciably better prospect than a guy like Gregory Polanco.
They locked in lifechanging money for themselves and their entire extended families.
Literally any MLB contract (let alone a contract extension) one signs is life changing money for your family. These guys pass life changing money in a year or two. Life changing money is a given.
Albies and Acuna both easily could have held out for way way more, and they would have gotten it. Easily. By tens of millions each.
Not that it needs reminding, but:
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/ozzie-albies-just-signed-a-stinker/#
https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2019/4/11/18306927/ozzie-albies-atlanta-braves-contract-extension
Be sure to tell Dustin Fowler, Jesus Montero, and Dom Brown that “life-changing money is a given.”
Imagine how much Jon Singleton could have made if he’d held out for more!
It’s hard to overstate the delta in terms of marginal utility between going from $2m to $30m of career earnings, compared to the difference between $30m and $100m.
Albies was already being offered an extension. He was going to make life changing money regardless. He was already a proven MLB stud, unlike Fowler/Montero/Brown. He was worth a lot more and he was going to be paid a lot more no matter what happened. His life was going to change for the better (financially at least), forever.
At the same time, he also left a ton of money on the table. Fangraphs estimated it could be as much as $200m in value. Conservatively, over $100m+ in value. That’s why the contract is so egregious and why it’s the best/worst in the history of the game, depending on which side of the table you’re on.
Each of the guys you listed made $3m-$5m in their short careers. Although $30m is a lot more money, $3m-$5m in such a short time frame is definitely life changing money. That kind of money sets you up to pay cash for most of the bills us common folk pay monthly, never to have to worry about it again.
Again…hard to overstate how much larger the difference between $5m and $30m is than the difference between $30m and $300m, in literally every single meaningful way.
…and I’m also entirely unsurprised by the risk tolerance that internet commenters whose financial literacy extends solely to the profit margins of multibillion dollar enterprises have for other people’s lives.
Do people really not understand how simple this is?
The Braves lock up young players in their pre-arb years and provide life changing money to them well before they’re “owed it” in return for taking less than they’d likely expect in arbitration and for longer years.
The Braves aren’t doing anything magical, it’s other teams not willing to pay their young players before they’re forced to that makes it seem like it.
The Dbacks did the same with Carroll, teams are starting to learn it’s worth that minor risk of injury to lock up these young players and actually pay them before being forced to.
Pittsburgh used to do a good job of this, but it seems like their cheap ass owners have put the kibosh on it after Tabata and Polanco.
Since then, only recently have the Pirates manage to develop any players worth extending in the first place, and they did extend Reynolds. I expect we’ll see them at least negotiate with Hayes, Cruz, and Keller in the next 2-3 years.
Teams have understood how simple this is since John Hart locked up Baerga, Belle, Lofton, Thome, and Sandy Alomar Jr in the early 90s. Not all teams have had the luck of locked-up players remaining injury-free and good year-in, year-out as the Braves, Astros, Cardinals, and Dodgers have.
Not all teams have gotten so lucky as to have a top-5 player in Acuna and a top-75 player in Albies have such awful agent representation as JDR points out. The Braves also seem to be a marquis pillow contract destination as Charlie Morton, Josh Donaldson, Marcell Ozuna all did the Braves the favor of taking one-year contracts so as not to tie the Braves’ hands over the long-term.
The Braves are great and AA has done a great job, but they’ve had a lot of lucky bounces go their way as well. If anything the Braves should get more credit for the depth of their minor-league pipeline since they could have locked up Soroka and had his dead salary on the books while he was injured, but they have had so many good young players, that a few can derail and they still have plenty (with bad agents, lol) that they can lock up long-term.
And what if Acuna’s ACL was career ending?
An agent’s job is to get his clients what they want…and a kid from Venezuela who signed for $100k and is his family’s sole breadwinner is going to have a much lower risk tolerance than Dansby Swanson.
Or a bourgeois internet commenter.
That’s true for what, 30% of MLB players, maybe 20% of the top-100 players. Why don’t they all sign such terrible contracts as Acuna and Albies did? These are outliers.
Hahahhahahahahahhaha
Gonna have to ask you to show your work on that one, champ.
Specifically: Contracts signed with fewer than two years of service time by players whose amateurs bonuses were less than $1m.
This is a really emotional issue for you and kind of ancillary to my point about the causes of the Braves’ success.
….dear God.
You’re allowed to say “I have exactly zero work to cite and I pulled those numbers out of my ass…but I would have held out for more in their shoes!”
Instead, you decided to really lean into the whole “My parents pay my rent by running a PAC opposing public transit access to my suburb” vibe of the initial post.
The Acuna and Albies deals are indeed huge outliers, even for guys from Latin America who signed as pre-arb players. Julio Rodriguez got paid. Wander Franco got paid. Rodriguez/Franco each had healthy IFA signing bonuses compared to Acuna getting $100k and Albies $350k, but Acuna and Albies were both in MLB making MLB salaries with a record of performance that was putting them in line for some serious arb payouts. They were about to make a lot of money, soon, that would swamp those differences in signing bonuses, yes even if they got injured.
So why is it just these two guys? We’ll probably never know.
Putting the Albies deal aside, because I do think it was weirdly low, the Acuña deal is generally blown out of proportion:
1. He was not “close”to getting paid. He had two full seasons to go before he’d be a Super-2.
2. His deal was the most money ever guaranteed to a player with under 1.00 year service time. It was the record.
3. Acuña stands a very good chance to make more in career earnings than Tatis and/or Franco. Unlike those guys, Acuña gets another bite at the apple at age 31. If he’s still a superstar, he will be able to sell his early 30s for a massive amount. Tatis will be 36 and Franco will be 33. To match Franco, Acuña would need to sell his age 31-32 seasons for about $49.5 million each. If he’s a star player, that is very much possible to match or beat. To match Tatis, who by the way was two years closer to free agency than Acuña was, he would have to sell his age 31-35 seasons for $44 million each. This might be harder but is not out of the question, and remember that Franco got to MLB a year faster and Tatis was fortunate enough to not get service time manipulated.
Would I rather be in the Franco or Tatis camp? Yes, easily. That money is made and Acuña has little upside in comparison as even a best case scenario would not push him that far ahead of the other two and the worst case scenario and a lot of other scenarios put him far behind. But I think the total numbers always get throw out there like it is an even comparison and the fact that Acuña’s deal is shorter (much shorter in Tatis comp) is mostly ignored.
Not to aggressively match bullet points, but just to answer things in order 🙂
1) Acuna had just made $545k as a first-year player, and had a contract in hand for $560k as a second year guy. I would very much liked to have made $1.1m in salary by the time I was 21. He wasn’t yet making huge, generational money yet, but it’s not like these guys are scraping by. And given his performance, he was in line to get a whole lot more, yes even if he got injured.
2) It’s a nice trivia point, but it is trivia. If he’s worth it, he’s worth it. And these deals (tons of money for a super young stud) were becoming quite common at the time, and have continued to be.
3) Yeah, those would be tremendous yearly salaries. If Acuna is worth ~$50m in new money in his 30s, kudos to him. Of course, he wouldn’t have to catch up to Franco and Tatis, neither of whom are as good as he is, if he was paid more equitably as a young player. Either way his career standard isn’t to be paid comparatively to Franco or Tatis, but to be paid what Ronald Acuna is worth. Which he shall not be.
Acuna’s contract isn’t the worst in the world (Albies’ is). It’s merely extremely team-friendly. He’s clearly significantly underpaid, but will get another shot in his 30s to try and make up some ground. Odds are he won’t, and his new team certainly isn’t going to pay him more money to make up for that he lost in his 20s, but he’s going to make another bundle. It just won’t be what he could have made.
I dunno, man – Acuna’s rookie year was just as good as Frenchy’s!
Imagine if Jeff Francoeur had thrown all of his future potential earnings away after that season…for just $100M guaranteed!!!
If by “just as good” you mean “quite a bit better at a younger age” then yes, yes it was lol
Acuna posted a 142 wRC+ when he was just barely not a teenager anymore (he turned 20 in December). Frenchy posted a 127 wRC+ as a 21 year old and most of that was due to a ridiculously hot start. He posted a 188 wRC+ in his first 35 games but only a 75 wRC+ in his final 27 games. He also only had 274 PA’s to Acuna’s 487.
So Frency had a torrid month-ish while a younger Acuna was literally 15% better over almost 2x as many PA’s.
Wanna see a list of 18-20 year olds in the past 30 years who put up a better wRC+ than Acuna did at that age?
Mike Trout
ARod
Juan Soto
Thats it. Thats the list.
You have made a bunch of disingenuous arguments in here but acting like Frenchy and Acuna were basically the same as rookies is probably the most egregious/ridiculous.
JUST LIKE JEFF FRANCOEUR!!!!
Man, I’m sure he’s glad that he had a great agent, who didn’t get let him suckered into taking $100m guaranteed as a 22 year old stud!
I think we’re arguing different things. No one’s saying that young players shouldn’t sign long term deals that sacrifice some future money for a sure thing now. They should! What people are arguing about is the degree of discount they should accept for that sure thing.
Acuna took a huge discount. At the time he signed his deal it was estimated he left about ~$100m on the table, or that his contract was about 50% of what it should be. That’s a pretty huge discount, especially considering he was going to make life changing money regardless in arb, even if he got hurt. That’s why he’s going to be #1 on the trade value list this year, and probably for a good long time to come.
At the time Albies signed his contract, it was estimated he left a catastrophic $100-200m on the table for a sure thing of $45m. That’s why it’s the worst contract ever.
What I’m arguing is that the average FG commenter who kvetches incessantly about Acuna’s deal is white, American, likely didn’t even take the basic FAFSA loans, and can’t even imagine the concept of having dependent parents.
And that those kvetchers therefore have a far higher risk tolerance for players’ career earnings than small-bonus players who are their family’s sole earner do.
I think Acuna took a team friendly but largely reasonable deal.
I think Ozzie should have either gotten at least $20m more or two fewer years on his deal.
I also don’t think Ozzie’s an idiot for taking $35 to stay with a place that he likes, rather than risking only making $2m on his career in the event of a catastrophic injury for the chance at making $100m in FA.
ACL’s havent been career ending for like 50 years. They are barely season ending these days (Adrian Peterson was back playing running back in 8 months) so thats just a disingenuous argument right from the jump. Name me 5 MLB players who has had their career ended by an ACL this century. Hell, you can expand it to other sports outside baseball if you want.
The reality is that the risk of catastrophic injury to an OF or really any position player is pretty minimal. the odds of an OF having his career ended by injury are much much smaller than you are portraying and certainly smaller than the odds of Acuna continuing to be really really good. And any agent worth their salt should be telling them that.
The Braves have also been really good over the last three-plus decades, have a well-run organization that is generally well-respected (the Coppy nonsense notwithstanding), and happen to be located in a place a lot of players like to live in or nearby.
I don’t know if I buy the hometown discount argument some people make, and I don’t think taxes are a factor, but I am curious if there are image rights and other subsidiary things on the margins that make these deals better than just the frontline number.
The Braves target players for whom the hometown discount may apply.
Austin Riley has a home in Hernando, Mississippi, just south of Memphis.
Matt Olson is from a suburb of Atlanta.
Michael Harris II is from a suburb of Atlanta.Spencer Strider is from Knoxville, Tennessee (though he was a Cleveland Indians/Guardians fan growing up).
Collin McHugh is from a suburb of Atlanta.
The motivation of other players to sign these extensions vary.
Sean Murphy is from Dayton, Ohio, so not a hometown discount there. He’s also 28. The earliest he would be a free agent was 2026, when he would be 31. Maybe he gets lucky and gets Willson Contreras money ($87.5M/5 years). Or Murphy settles for a little less, gets $88M/7 years, gets some of that money earlier, and plays with some great players in a great organization for the next part of his career.
Ronald Acuña Jr. wanted to reward the organization that believed in him enough to sign him when he was a small and skinny 16 year old.
Ozzie Albies is from Curaçao. Andruw Jones was the first superstar baseball player from Curaçao, so it shouldn’t be surprising that the Braves have had a number of players from Curaçao over the years – most of them grew up rooting for the Braves. Ozzie’s other reasons for signing the extension were more personal. He wanted enough money to take care of his family, he wanted to play baseball with his best friend Ronald, and to that end, he wanted to not be traded. The Braves don’t give no-trade clauses as a matter of policy. So they offered him a contract where they wouldn’t trade him under almost all circumstances.
Image rights are handled through the MLBPA, IIRC, but I’m sure the team helps with endorsement deals.
Dansby Swanson grew up in Marietta, haha!
But he was a Vanderbilt grad…with a $6.5m signing bonus…who grew up in Marietta…so he was more than willing to take his chances.
The entire “trick” is targeting these kids whose lives (and whose families’ lives) will change if they get guaranteed tens of millions of dollars in Y0 rather than receiving a fraction of that money in Y5 if everything goes exactly perfectly.
They’re also the #1 professional team in ATL.
Maybe #2, after the Dawgs.
Mike Trout is a lucky bounce. The Angels have been able to do a good thing exactly twice in 10+ years (Trout and Ohtani).
When a team hits over and over and over like the Braves…maybe they’re just good at this.
There are more risks than injury, as Jon Singleton, Evan White, and others have shown.
The difference with Singleton and Evan White is that they both signed their deals as minor leaguers. Albies and Acuna were both proven MLB studs, and therefore obviously worth a lot more.
Evan White’s career has been derailed by injuries. What do you mean?
Everybody’s been doing this for years.
This is a gross oversimplification and also inaccurate.
It’s situation and player dependent, full stop. Offering an early career/pre-arb extension isn’t some easy button GMs league-wide are ignoring or unwilling to do.
Plenty of young players turn down contract offers like these every year because they think they can earn more.
Plenty of young players already received life changing signing bonuses and are less swayed by early extension offers (notably Kris Bryant).
Some players are more risk averse for a variety of reasons and will take the ‘discount’ the teams are offering, others not so.
The specific reason the Braves catch heat for Acuna and Albies (Riley and Strider are ‘normal’ extensions) is because many feel (including myself) that the Braves capitalized on the financial and family situations of both players to get far steeper discounts on early career extensions than those players deserved based on performance and service time.
The Braves can’t help that both players accepted the contracts offered and I’m sure plenty of players reject or negotiate up similar offers made by teams every year. But just because both players agreed to their respective contracts doesn’t free the team and agents from ethical questions that can’t be answered by simply saying ‘baseball is a business’ or ‘they are the ones who agreed to the contracts, regardless of circumstance.’
The fact the Braves have had so many top players agree to extensions is also notable because it’s outside the norm and it’s not simply because other teams aren’t making those offers to their own players. They might be more aggressive in their extension efforts sure. But most, if not all teams are making extension offers to their young players.
I’ve heard this argument that players turn these contracts down, but can anyone cite an example of a pre-arb player turning down a contract from their team that’s similar to what these guys have signed? I’m not talking about one or two year deals for a few million. I’m talking +100 million they’re guaranteed to make right then.
Albies signed for $35M, not $100M.
And most of Boras’ guys don’t sign away free agent years. Probably other agents too.
I don’t blame the Braves like AJJ does. They’re the lucky beneficiary of multi-year All-Stars who are really risk-averse and have bad agents.
I didn’t blame the Braves. I went out of my way to use wording that doesn’t place blame directly on any single entity. I said the Braves capitalized on the circumstances and can’t help it that the players accepted their contract offers. We’re saying the same thing to a point.
I’ll readily acknowledge the Braves got lucky while at the same time questioning the ethics involved from multiple participating parties.
Yup!
This stuff isn’t always public but Bryan Reynolds is a notable recent example. He rejected 2 long-term extension offers before his final pre-arb season in 2021.
https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/pirates-sign-bryan-reynolds-to-two-year-contract-but-all-star-should-continue-to-be-trade-target/
Bryant and Lindor are other notable examples that were discussed in the media at length.
Didn’t Bryant when he was with the Cubs? Edit: Lindor too.
Manny Machado in Baltimore and Juan Soto in Washington, just off the top of my head.
It’s not always that easy. For one thing, many young stars are perfectly willing to hold out until free agency.
Others have bad luck with injuries early in their careers and then show better health later on, or it takes a few years for them to develop into quality players who their teams would want to retain long-term.
For others, it takes a while until their careers stabilize to where a good benchmark for a long-term extension becomes apparent. Even at such reduced rates, teams don’t want to pay a guy where the risk is too great that he drops off into only being a bench player at best or possibly even an early flameout, especially if it means they’re going to wind up dropping him by DFA or a dump trade before the contract is up. Likewise, if a player thinks he’s still getting significantly better and/or has had some bad luck, he (usually) doesn’t want to shortchange himself too much even with these kinds of extensions.
It just smells funny when the latin and African American have signed the worst contracts and the caucasians still make a lot more from the same team at the same age.
I didn’t realize Sean Murphy was a player of color!
I mean…it speaks to the fact that centuries of systemic racism have given white players a significantly greater level of risk tolerance than kids whose families literally depend on them.
The top 10 mid-season top prospects list last year and their Trade Value progression YoY
Gunnar Henderson HM –> Top 10
Eury Perez HM -> 18
Gabe Moreno Not Listed -> Not Listed
Corbin Carroll HM -> Top 10
Jackson Chourio Not Listed -> Not Listed (should be HM)
Elly De La Cruz Not Listed -> Top 10
Grayson Rodriguez Not Listed -> Not Listed
Jordan Walker HM -> 43
James Wood HM -> 50
Anthony Volpe HM -> 27
Plus Strider and Harris had graduated from prospect list already and both went from HM to top 15, although neither was as highly rated a prospect.
Elly being top 10 would be the worst placement in the history of this series.
He currently has a 99 wRC+, a 31.3% K rate, a 5.6% BB rate, a 57% GB rate, and a .390 BABIP. His swing decisions are bad (o-swing above average, z-swing below average) and he has a history of very high minor league K rates. That’s a recipe for a high probability bust outcome unless he demonstrates process improvements. That’s not “top 10 trade value in all of baseball,” even a (IMO generous) ZIPS projection has him maxing out at a 759 OPS through 2025.
Stats-wise, agreed. It’d be interesting to include marketing value in this. He’s electric.
You don’t have sustainable market value if your production in the field isn’t there
Trade value is ALSO perception. EDC’s emphemeral value is off the charts at the moment.
Meh, I don’t think Arozarena was a top-10 Trade Value guy after looking like Babe Ruth in the 2020 playoffs. I think there is more variance with prospects (Zips disagrees with Longenhagen quite a bit, though I think Longenhagen maps to actual trades quite well), but EDC is fairly well known. I don’t think we’ll see any Shelby Miller-type ripoffs any time soon since projection systems are really good for major-league level players.
Arozarena was a weird one because of all the back room nonsense that teams put massively different weight on. I think some teams probably zeroed him out because of it. To be fair, a lot of headcases never do put it together. To also be fair… it didn’t seem like Arozarena has the specific kind of problems outside baseball that derail careers, it was just the Cards having a stick up their butts about it. So when he crushed the playoffs you could see it as a flash in the pan or him delivering on the potential people unfairly discounted.
Arozarena wasn’t a top prospect in the first place. Before he broke out in 2020 playoffs, Arozarena was only considered to be something like a 4th outfielder for a contending team who might develop into a consistent starting-caliber player.
Naturally, everyone was suspicious as to whether that 2020 playoff performance was for real until he proved it was indeed for real with his Rookie of the Year performance in 2021.
This seems fairly convincing to me, but of course he’s only been in MLB for a couple of months and you can’t just scout the statline. That’s true even given the minor league history. I’m assuming based on his top-10 placement that the industry consensus is that the tools are so good that he will correct the strikeout issues and is a high-probability superstar. It doesn’t seem crazy to me, although the performance risk feels like a more comfortable fit in the 11-20 range.
He had his entire time in the minors to correct the K issues against inferior pitching and never did.
Maybe he can improve, but this isn’t a high probability superstar, it’s a high probability bust with the small chance of a superstar outcome if he drastically improves. 30% k rates in the minors are a terrible sign for anyone.
Willy Adames and Javy Baez are about as extreme as you can get with the discipline profile while being an above average hitter at SS, and Elly has a way to go before he’s there. And those guys aren’t top 10 guys nor were they ever.
Even if he doesn’t imrove there (and he might), he could still be a good hitter (with best in class speed/baserunning and good defense) with a 30% K rate.
You can find plenty of superstars in the bottom 10-20% of K rates. The fact that he is an average hitter with a 57% GB rate and striking out 30% of the time is telling.
His K rates may be in line with the minors, but his batted ball types are very much not. He hits the ball really hard. If he can EITHER take a few precentage points off of his K rate, OR hit 33%ish flyballs like he did in the minors, he will be a well above average hitter.
If he can do both, he will be a star-level hitter with all the other plus-plus he brings. A batted ball proflie typical to his minors seasons would basically make him 2023 Luis Robert.
Everything in your comment is true, but it’s describing why a high-variance prospect can succeed. It is not describing one of the 10 most valuable assets in baseball
The main issue with this argument is the facts.
Elly dramatically improved on both counts in AAA this season.
and the walks in AAA give a lot of hope for continued development
FWIW, that ZiPS projection is out of date. Per Dan’s update on Tuesday, his 2024 wOBA projection is up to .340.
His MLB sample size is so small that is has changed drastically since this list was put together presumably before/during the all-star break. Since the break Elly has 1 hit in 25 PA, which has dropped his line considerably. A 132 wRC+ (which is what he had a week ago) wouldn’t be cited as a concern.
Your point that we shouldn’t get carried away with small sample sizes is absolutely correct though. Most of the concerns that could have been cited in May about his K rates are still absolutely there and haven’t gone away because he ran a .440 BABIP for a month.
57% GB rate is a wild departure from his minor league norms. Previous high was 44% in High A ball. Unless something changed, one would think that number will start to come down by at least 10 percentage points.
Another pretty good indication that Jackson Holliday belonged in the top 50 this year.
I don’t see how de La Cruz is in the top 10.I know he had an electric first week but he’s now down to a 99 wRC+, and has a much more volatile profile than the other rookie SSs on this list in Nieto, Volpe, and McLain.
I’d like be wrong here, but he looks like a “more fun than he is good” kind of guy
Riley has done some good work this year to tighten up several elements of his plate discipline – O-Swing%, K% – though he is taking more called strikes, and his Z-Swing% is curiously down to 71% from his career average of 76%. That aside, what’s been missing are the barrels; the recent outburst helps, but that .198 ISO still needs work. Not that I own him on multiple fantasy teams and have been tracking this stuff religiously or anything like that.
From what I’ve read about his work ethic I don’t think anyone should be too concerned about his overall production. But it definitely seems like he’s trying a different approach at the plate this year, as though he’s trying to develop more patience but isn’t quite at the point of capitalizing as well as he should.
Maybe this gets me BBQ’d in the comments section, but I think I’d rather have Jose Ramirez than Austin Riley.
I’m a Braves diehard and to win a game last year, this year, or even maybe next year? Yeah, you’re probably right.
But over the next 5 years? In 2028 Riley will be the same age that Ramirez is right now, which is definitely what bumped Riley over JRam in this exercise.
Oh for sure.
Quite a bit of this exercise is weighing current vs. future contributions. Of course it depends where a team is in its success cycle, but from a talent management perspective in general I think I prefer superior performance(at a lower cost) up front because I still have time to plan for the future.
It’s a virtual lock that Riley outperforms Ramirez in the out years, but I value those less heavily.
(None of this is to say I think Riley is a bad choice at all.)
It’s a no brainer if each contract goes 5 years. How about 9? Riley is signed through the same age.
Riley’s profile is similar (if slightly worse) to Kris Bryant’s through age 26 and Bryant cliffed at 28 so there’s still plenty of downside risk.
I just don’t think saving less than Ozzie Albies’ salary on lux tax AAV over market rates is enough to justify him at #13 here. On the list, sure, but I’d put him below every other Brave.
Market value AAV on Riley’s production is Devers’ deal.
So it’s a $10m difference, annually.
I guess this is a semantics argument. When I said market value I meant what the team can get on the market. Not what a theoretical free agent at age 26 Austin Riley would get instead of a contract covering his arb years.
Is Matt Chapman getting 30m this offseason?
…
…
…
I’m confused.
Will Matt Chapman be 26 this off-season?
No but Matt Chapman isnt going to cost you Francisco Alvarez+ or Matt McLain+ or Eury Perez or Mookie Betts (4m AAV more than Riley) and Patrick Bailey (20m less) to acquire, which is what this exercise is for and his and their placement suggests.
This is a trade value column. I used the term ‘market rate’ from the team’s perspective because Austin Riley doesn’t trade for himself. 4 WAR corner bats can be purchased most offseasons. They typically won’t be 26 but they also typically dont have 10 year commitments.
But you know what, let’s accept your premise and ever forgo the Boston overpaid because of Boston-specific reasons argument. Devers’ lux tax hit is 29.1m. Riley’s is 21.2. Ok, that delta is larger than Albies’ salary but less than Michael Harris’ tax hit. Devers wasn’t even a HM. 8 million a year is the difference between #13 and not in consideration?
So. We’ve established that Matt Chapman is significantly older than Riley.
Will anyone have team control of
Matt Chapman after this seasons, if they trade for him?
Jose Ramirez is right around the top of my list of players I respect and appreciate. He is great, and has been great for several years, but not enough people put him in the echelon of superstars that he belongs. His choosing to be a member of the Cleveland organization for his entire career, at a figure below market value, is something I also respect.
There was a story during his breakout 5-WAR 2016 season where he wasn’t voted to be an All-Star (to be fair, his best production was after the ASB), where he wanted the team to option him over the ASB so he didn’t have to take 4 days off from playing. Legend.
I love that Ramirez wants to spend his whole career in Cleveland. As a long-suffering fan of the team, his presence (and strut) is as much a Cleveland institution as the terminal tower. That said, unless his contract specifies that management must spend the contract shortfall annually on rostered players, taking the home town discount just led to an increase in wealth for the Dolan family. He’s great, but let’s not celebrate giving the owners more money, in any situation.
I would too… and by rather a lot. I’m not anti Riley, and the age delta certainly matters. But Ramirez is better than him in every single way but raw pop. J-Ram has spent last season and this one walking more than striking out, and he’s presently striking out in the SINGLE DIGITS.
I see a skillset I’m more more confident will age well than Riley, who has some real aging-into-meh-1B/DH risk.
I’m curious who people would prefer between Vlad Jr and Riley if they were on similar contracts. I think I buy into Vlad’s bat a little more and think Riley is going have to move off 3B sooner rather than later, so I think I would go with Vlad.
Of course the six more years of team control for less than Vlad will likely make on the open market makes a difference, so it’s all a moot point.
The issue with this estimation is that Riley has literally never been as bad at 3B as Vlad is at 1B.
On similar contracts? I would take Riley every time. I like Vlad and am skeptical Riley should be this high, but Riley can play third base today and probably can play a the corner outfield when he can’t. And if not he would still be a better first baseman. I’m not sure what the difference is between their bats are because Vlad Jr has had seasons much better than Riley and also seasons where he has been worse than Riley’s current profile but I don’t think it’s big.
I think I’m in agreement. Riley’s younger, but the back half of Riley’s contract could be bad if the glove isn’t playable at third any more. The bad would likely still play at first/DH but he could also go Kris Bryant on us.
I like Riley a lot but if he’s projected for 2.8 WAR in 2028 then 2029-2032 or whatever is going to be a real drag. Not enough for me to worry at all about whether it was worth it, but enough that I am probably not trading someone like Bobby Witt or Eury Perez for him.
Again, I’d take Albies and his contract over half of these guys. Why would we want players with lower WAR projections that cost more money with less (advantageous) control? And yowza, the last two years are team options. If one of his legs falls off the Braves just walk away, and don’t owe him the whopping $14m for two years of 3-4 WAR production.
Albies should be top 5.
The Albies contract is such a steal that the two team options are almost irrelevant when compared to if those two years had been guaranteed. Like sure, if Ozzie falls apart the Braves would like the ability to not pick up those options but even if they had to…it would only cost them 7 million! That’s just like 3-4% of their payroll
When it comes to performance per dollar expended I find it impossible to find anyone close to Albies. He is a proven 4-5 bWAR player at $5 million a year for as far as the eye can see. Is there anybody else, after ARB, providing 1 bWAR per million dollars of salary?
You aren’t getting elite production from a primary position from Albies. Everyone here you’re either getting that or we’re projecting you’ll get that.
re: Eury Perez
There is legitimate reason to want to preserve his arm, but I think sending him down to the minors also had something to do with saving the Marlins money.
If he’s going to pitch down there anyways, it seems they could have kept him on the major league roster and either skipped starts, used him as an opener, or used him out of the bullpen.
They actively made their team worse in the middle of a playoff race, which is incredibly disappointing.
“I’ve been wrong on players just like this before. I like dreaming on good defenders starting to hit more, and I know it.”
See: Ke’Bryan Hayes 😀
Someone had to say it
I know that relievers are fickle, but shouldn’t Bautista and Diaz both get at least an HM? Both have 4+ years of control, and have been dominant since arriving at the MLB level.
Diaz is owed Luis Castillo money and is coming off a devastating injury.
Despite how bonkers his previous three years have been (same ERA- to what Billy Wagner did on his career!!!), he absolutely needs to come back and show he’s *back* before being on a list like this.
I agree with you on Edwin… Although he is awesome if healthy. I meant Alexis 🙂
Bautista is a step above Alexis, but not sure that matters for just an HM
Damn, those guys are absolutely absurd!
Absolutely worth an HM.
It might just be the idea that team control is irrelevant for relievers. They are so fickle that they could just as easily be replacement level as dominant in 3-4 years.
Also, closers tend to get compensated pretty well in arb compared to other positions, so the discount on those years relative to a high profile free agent is reduced.
Baumann’s piece about striders obscene strikeout rates devaluing defense comes to mind here. Give me any player 11-20 other than Harris here (and maybe sandy which breaks my heart). It’s fun to think that defense matters that much. But yeah, if you can trade a 50 fv for 3.5 years of Brandon marsh, just do that rather than selling the farm for Harris. I’ll pass.
Harris is a significantly better hitter than Marsh, on top of being far and away a better defender.
Not this season he isn’t. And even if that’s true, the point remains. I just don’t think the allure of excellent defense is enough to make me give up top 15 trade value type of stuff for someone who just might not hit great
As someone who’s liked the Phillies since Scott Rolen was their top player…sample size matters.
They both have two seasons! Why is Harrises over performing season that much more believable than marshes is this year, they both have prospect pedigree. My point was never that marsh was a better hitter, or a better fielder. It’s just that if you get the vast majority of marsh on a rookie contract for a 50 fv prospect, it would be foolish to break the bank for a guy who’s like 15-20% better than him (which is what Ben is implying here). So far in their careers, that’s where they are. I just don’t see any teams treating defense the way ben seems to think they do, with this incredibly high ranking.
And Harris’s “two seasons” have featured significantly better offense, significantly better offensive indicators, and worlds better defense.
Also…1.5 seasons of Harrison Bader fetched 1.5 seasons of a 3-4 WAR starter last year, haha.
Michael Harris xwOBA while having a down offensive season at age 22: .327
Brandon Marsh xwOBA while having a good offensive season at age 25: .303
Ah yes, the “famously valuable player” Kevin Kiermaier. So valuable that he never cracked the top 50 of the fangraphs most valuable players, even after playing at a 5+ WAR/season pace his first two years in the big leagues. Boy times have changed, unless you’re a Ray.
Kiermaier’s “5 Win Pace” came because he’s an oft-injured platoon bat, haha.
If you think Harris is the next Carl Crawford, I think this ranking is fine. If you think he’s more Kiermaier, then this is too high — great contract or not. Put me in the ‘not camp’. Harris’ position and contract likely is too good for him not to be on this list for years to come, but if you’re not getting elite (or projecting elite) performance from a player, it’s very hard for me to have them in the top 20.
Maybe the next Kenny Lofton?
Kenny Lofton was excellent at getting on base, Harris so far is more good. But yes, if Harris doubles his walk rate, then he 100% should be in the top 20.
Fair, but Lofton played his first full season at age 25, which will be Harris’ 2026 season. Still would be a 90th percentile outcome, but the fact that it isn’t ridiculous is something.
The shape of production might be a little more power and a little less OBP, but a 110 wRC+ career CF with excellent defense can get you to borderline HoF status.
Mike Cameron would be another one, although I don’t know that Harris is quite at that level defensively.
Mike Cameron was underrated and underpaid through his career. I imagine his trade value would take a similar hit.
That was 25 years ago, though. Times have changed.
Harris had an absolutely atrocious start to the year and has already recovered to league average after putting up nearly 5 WAR in a partial season at 21.
He’s K-ing less now, the platoon splits have narrowed, he’s still playing an excellent CF and the power hasn’t disappeared.
Carl Crawford played in a corner, his career ISO is .145 and he had one year with as many home runs as Harris hit last year in 441 PAs
Is this still just skepticism from him not being 6’4 or in the minors long enough to shoot up prospect rankings? Harris’ career line remains comparable to Julio Rodriguez, who is also having a down year with the bat. Is anyone projecting J-Rod to turn into a pumpkin?
I think I’m alone in this one, but my skepticism of Harris is more about his defense being elite than his bat being good. I buy that he is a 110-115 wRC+ hitter. I am not certain he is in that Kiermaier, Buxton, Bader, Jose Siri tier of elite defensive CFers. More in that tier behind them with Mullins, Grisham, and Carroll. That is still very good, but when the carrying tool is the glove which typically peaks early, that worries me just a bit.
Still if he is an above average hitter with a plus glove on that contract, he is still hugely valuable. But I think he will settle into more 10th best glove in CF than top 3.
I’ll buy this with the caveat that he’s a 110-115 WRC+ guy now as a 22 year old and there’s still quite a bit of potential upside offensively.
What if he’s DET-era Granderson?
Or the healthy version of Lorenzo Cain?
Or Royals-era Beltran?
A 115 wRC+ CF with plus defense is a 5 win player.
I think the real concern is that lately primary center fielders have been hurt a lot. I do not know why this is or if it applies to Harris but I am increasingly alarmed at the number of center fielders breaking down.
Aside from that very vague and general worry that may not apply to him at all asI think this ranking is totally fine. It is hard to find a center fielder who can hit at league average or better while playing good defense.
A Team column in the table at the bottom would be very helpful.
Robert’s in his fourth year now… I don’t think the worry about his bat is warranted. The injury risk concern is reasonable, but the chase/K concern is not. He doesn’t chase like Salvy or Javy, who are up above 44% O-Swing as usual; his chase rate this year at 37.6% is quite high, but no more than a couple ticks above Bichette and Julio. Dudes this physically gifted can absolutely make this work. He’s also extremely aggressive in-zone, which is good of course.
The K% at 29% this year is the result of a deliberate change in approach, via change of hitting coach. He was striking out at about 20% in ‘21-‘22 but not lifting it as much, under the tutelage of Frank “fuck the home run let’s hit .300” Menechino, and still put up a 130 wRC+ over that span. That he’s able to succeed with nearly opposite approaches reassures me pretty well that he’s gonna keep mashing.
I agree. The man is a stud. Unless there’s a catostrophic injury you pick up Robert’s options.
I quite liked 2021 Robert
I’m struggling to understand how contract status is really factoring into the rankings.
Care to elaborate? I think empirically we can observe that surplus value is an input to trade value but not as important as say, increased playoff and World Series probabilities for the acquiring team over the years of control of the acquired player. I think Ben Clemens wrote that he’s emphasizing uniquely talented players more than cheap years of control, but he’s used that more as a rule-of-thumb than a firm rule, so Mookie Betts doesn’t make the top 50.
The most glaring example is Austin Riley and Ozzie Albies. But seeing this list of 10-20 being largely full of big contracts is the impetus for the comment.
Jose Ramírez…. the Guardians would trade him straight up for almost every pre-arb player listed below him on this list. And he’s awesome and underrated! But high quality prearb MLB talent is the most valuable type of talent (or second behind the team-friendly controlled contract).
what this article presupposes is…they probably wouldn’t
They wouldn’t because they would get offered more by the highest bidder.
ATL heaux
Austin Riley is going to be just fine. Even in this so-called down period I see something around 30 HR’s with solid major league defense. Ooooh! As I write this he hits a 3-run shot to the moon to put the Braves ahead. Yeah, I think he can play.
There are concerns about Riley when he’s 30 but I have yet to be convinced that he’s any different a hitter right now than he was the last two years. I’m very surprised that anyone thinks he isn’t going to hit again.
As a Phillies fan, its disheartening to see so many young, talented Braves on this list.
I think its disheartening to the fans of all 29 other teams that they’re still signing all these guys to below market deals at a time when it seems like every other agent and player wised up to what teams were doing in the 2010s.
Wander Franco shouldn’t be in the top 50.
Certainly not above Torkelson who should be top 5! Matt Manning should probably slot in around 15-20 as well.
it’s always funny to me how people (probably Braves fans) will say that the Braves are the only team willing to take the risks of signing young, relatively unproven players to these contracts. every other team in the league—well, 28 of them—would have all offered the exact same extensions the Braves gave to everyone, outside of maybe Riley. the idea that teams would be too cheap to sign one of the best catchers in baseball to a 6 year, $73 million dollar extension is completely laughable.
there’s also the supposed hometown discounts, which i guess is a common factor, but that seems less significant than all of these guys having agents that work for, like, Hollywood Upstairs Sports Management. Sean Murphy is signed to Rowley Sports Management, which only has Kyle Gibson among active players; Riley is signed to something called ALiGND Sports Management, which appears to have him and Liam Hendriks as significant players, Michael Harris doesn’t even have an agent listed on Baseball Reference, and Spencer Strider is signed to Frontline, which doesn’t have a list of clients on their website, but does seem to include, of note, Trey Mancini and Drew Smyly. And there were of course the Acuna and Albies deals, which had their own can of worms, even at the time. Forgive me for thinking that these contracts might be more about agencies making sure they get their percentage than what’s in the best interests of the players.
my best guess is there’s probably some sort of peer pressure thing going on. it helps to have all these stars under contract to snowball things, though i have no idea what’s going on with the guys they let go. Freddie Freeman breaking down in tears last year felt like something out of a documentary about scientology, and both he and Dansby Swanson insisting they were willing to take less money to stay with the Braves felt like the sort of player-side penance that fans stopped needing years ago.
all this to say that everything going on with these contracts is exceedingly weird, especially in light what happened with Coppolella. the new system doesn’t really feel much different than what was going on before.
FYI, Michael Harris II is represented by Munger English Sports Management.
It’s really not that hard to understand. It’s all about the culture of the team.
Since Alex Anthopoulos took over as GM in 2018, he’s prioritized creating the right clubhouse culture for the Braves. What does that mean? First, you find the right people – people who aren’t jerks or a-holes. Character and makeup are important, because the Braves want guys who will be good teammates. So first you find good people, then second, good baseball players.
If players want to hang out with their teammates, they’ll want to win for their teammates. That comraderie, that brotherhood, leads to better performance on the field, and makes it easier for the club to recover when times are bad. The team hasn’t had a losing streak over 4 games since 2017.
Once you find the right people, you give them the tools and resources they need to be successful. The soft-serve ice cream machine in the Braves clubhouse has been the subject of jokes, but it shows that the organization is willing to spend money on the little things to make their players comfortable.
If the front office thinks something will translate to wins on the field or team morale, they’ll spend the money on it. A player told Alex that the Cleveland visiting clubhouse has towel warmers outside the showers, and that Braves needed to have them too. Shortly thereafter, towel warmers were installed in the home clubhouse.
The Braves clubhouse culture is one of their strengths. This year, when the team has been on the road, all the players and coaches eat breakfast together at the hotel. The team pays for it. And for dinner. Which they all eat together as well. Eating meals together is good way to increase trust with your coworkers.
The Braves have created a team culture where players are teammates who are invested in each other’s success, where they genuinely like their coworkers, they like the staff and management, where everyone is pulling on the same rope of winning another championship.
So players want to stay. Dansby is from Atlanta. He wanted to stay, but the Braves weren’t willing to offer him anything near market. Freddie Freeman wanted to stay in Atlanta, but his agent messed up the negotiations.
The team is willing to pay certain players to stay (sorry, Dansby, not you). Those extensions fall into two groups: extensions that take a player into their early 30s, where the player will have a chance to sign another big contract (Acuña, Albies, Harris, Strider), and extensions that effectively cover the rest of the player’s career (Riley, Murphy, Olson).
There’s nothing weird going on with the contract extensions, just the business of baseball.
sorry but claiming the Braves culture is about finding guys who aren’t assholes is ridiculous. even without getting into the story about McCann and Freeman telling Acuna how to play the game the right way (*dog whistle*) this team still employs Marcell Ozuna. get out of here with that “character” nonsense.
and the rest of that is just nonsense that seems to assume the other 29 teams have never thought of building team morale or having towel warmers in the clubhouse. if only the Dodgers, Yankees, Astros, Rays, or any of the other lauded front offices in the game had thought of something like this, then maybe they’d also be getting their players to sign extensions that should have the MLBPA calling for investigations.
if it was just the “business of baseball” there would be more than one team doing it.
Agreed, the first thing I thought of with regards to “high character guys” was Marcel Ozuna, which rendered the rest of the wall of text pretty meaningless
i thought about responding with that but one thing i keep in mind with comments sections is that a lot of people, myself included, enjoy reading them, and it’s worth providing the insight to people who might otherwise not know what’s going on
Character isn’t about whether people make mistakes or not. It is about how they respond to the mistakes they make both on and off the field. It is about how they respond to the grind, to adversity, to the challenges that are omnipresent in baseball. It’s about the energy they bring or subtract from a team, how they respond to being put into a role that they may not want, or being sidelined because someone else is simply more successful.
As much as Marcell Ozuna appears to be the outlier, he isn’t. It doesn’t matter how much money Ozuna was owed, if he was a disruptive presence in the clubhouse, he’d be gone.
All reports are that Ozuna has engaged in the processes that MLB has under its DV policy to try to become a better person for his family and resolve the various issues he created for himself. I don’t think that it is a coincidence that Marcell’s performance on field improved after his legal issues were resolved. He said that he was finally right with his family during a series in Miami with the Marlins this May of this year where he finally started having success again.
People are not the same to everyone, and as problematic as Ozuna’s behavior off the field has been, he is well-liked by his teammates. Ozuna is a relentless cheerleader for his teammates, stayed positive through his on-field struggles, and when his teammates struggled, has tried to help them.
Michael Harris said that the turning point for his season was when Marcell gave him a pep talk and told him, “You’re the best centerfielder in MLB.” Matt Olson was in a hitting slump when Marcell noticed in video that Matt was lowering his hands before his swing, making him swing through high fastballs.
The Dodgers, Yankees, and Astros are all teams that have had players who had DV suspensions and kept them on the roster. The Dodgers signed Trevor Bauer as a free agent even though they knew he had character issues. The Astros traded for Roberto Osuna because they thought they could get him for cheap due to the DV suspension. A lot of teams will sign a player if they are talented enough, and try to manage the issues they bring to a team. Sometimes it works out like the 1986 Mets, but sometimes it turns into the 2013 Detroit Tigers.
At any rate, yes, the players do sign because they like each other and want to stay with each other. The Albies extension was bad, but Ozzie wanted an extension that would ensure that he would stay with the team and wasn’t traded, and that was the team was willing to offer in April 2019. Ozzie has said that money isn’t that important to him, and ultimately, he chose to accept it. The other extensions are below-market, but none so hideously below market as Ozzie’s.
What the extensions all have in common is they pay millions more than the players would otherwise get during their pre-arbitration and arbitration years, in exchange for lower values overall and/or buying out free agent years. For Riley, Olson, and Murphy, their contracts are likely to be the one big contract they’ll have in their careers. For Harris, Strider, Acuña, and Albies, they’ll all have a second shot a big contract in their early thirties.
Aside from Olson and Murphy, the players signing extensions came up through the minor league system, they’ve been with the organization for years, and they’ve been teammates for years, often through the minor league system.
Sometimes, players just want to remain teammates. For example, Justin Turner and Kenley Jansen resigned with the Dodgers for 2017 after Kenley Jansen’s wedding. Sometimes guys want to continue being teammates, and it isn’t a coincidence that both Turner and Jansen are on the Boston Red Sox. There’s a similar story for Acuña and Albies for why they both signed extensions in April 2019.
The Braves culture makes players want to stay with the team. The team has ownership that is willing to give guaranteed contracts to young talent, management that offers those extensions, and players willing to trade less overall money to get money early and guaranteed.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t the issue with Coppy that the Braves were bundling prospects to figure out a way to give prospects more money? Seems like the exact opposite of what you’re claiming here.
no, you are very much wrong. Coppolella was banned for skirting international signing rules, which are put into place not just for competitive balance reasons, but also are supposed to have the added benefit of providing protection for vulnerable teenagers who can have their lives upended by having the rug pulled on the kind of shady backroom deals the Braves were promising.
that he was ever reinstated is a fucking joke.
To quote Keith Law, who knows more about this than me: “Coppolella’s punishment seems even more egregious now with these punishments. Of course, he was accused of violating rules designed to keep owners from having to spend more money on players and that is an eternal sin in the church of baseball”