2023 Trade Value: Nos. 41 – 50

Reggie Hildred-USA TODAY Sports

As is tradition at FanGraphs, we’re using the lead-up to the trade deadline to take stock of the top 50 players in baseball by trade value. For a more detailed introduction to this year’s exercise, as well as a look at the players who fell just short of the top 50, be sure to read the Introduction and Honorable Mentions piece, which can be found in the widget above.

For those of you who have been reading the Trade Value Series the last few seasons, the format should look familiar. For every player, you’ll see a table with the player’s projected five-year WAR from 2024-2028, courtesy of Dan Szymborski’s ZiPS projections. The table will also include the player’s guaranteed money, if any, the year through which their team has contractual control of them, last year’s rank (if applicable), and then projections, contract status, and age for each individual season through 2028 (if the player is under contract or team control for those seasons). Last year’s rank includes a link to the relevant 2022 post. Thanks are due to Sean Dolinar for his technical wizardry. At the bottom of the page, there is a grid showing all of the players who have been ranked up to this point.

One note on the rankings: Particularly at the bottom of the list, there isn’t a lot of room between the players. The ordinal rankings clearly matter, and we put them there for a reason, but there isn’t much of a gap between, say, the 39th-ranked player and the 60th. The magnitude of the differences in this part of the list is quite small. Several of the folks I talked to might prefer a player in the honorable mentions section to one on the back end of the list, or vice versa. I think the broad strokes are correct, and this is my opinion of the best order, but with so many players carrying roughly equivalent value, disagreements abounded.

With that out of the way, let’s get to the first batch of players.

Five-Year WAR 9.2
Guaranteed Dollars
Team Control Through 2030
Previous Rank
Year Age Projected WAR Contract Status
2024 21 0.9 Pre-Arb
2025 22 1.4 Pre-Arb
2026 23 1.9 Pre-Arb
2027 24 2.3 Arb 1
2028 25 2.7 Arb 2
Pre-Arb
Arb

Oh boy, this one was tough for me. I look at my past work every year to try to identify holes in my process, and I’ve consistently left out players who haven’t yet debuted in the majors. That’s mostly for a good reason: I don’t think they’re totally in keeping with the spirit of this exercise. Valuations differ wildly from team to team, and the very best prospects generally get traded for stars, not as the highlight of the deal in their own right. But it didn’t quite sit right with me, and when Meg suggested Wood for the tail end of the list this year, something clicked.

For the most part, this list is about trading for players who are going to help your team now and in the future, with both sides being important. It’s still about that – you’re not going to see 18-year-old prospects in the low minors on here no matter how big the hype gets. But Wood has a spectacular combination of talent and proximity to the majors that makes him fit the general concept of these rankings enough that I’m throwing him on here as a signpost.

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What is he a signpost of? I think there’s a good chance that Wood is a fixture at the top of trade value lists in the next few years. It’s not a lock – he’d be higher up if it were – but if you’re looking for the next player who might have an Elly De La Cruz-like rise, Wood fits the general silhouette. That’s true physically – he’s 6-foot-7 and he’s fast – but it also fits in terms of having loud tools and an excellent feel for the game.

This time next year, Wood will likely be in Triple-A, but I don’t think a meteoric major league rise is out of the question given how well he’s handled the minors so far. The service time estimate up above reflects a call-up in the middle of next season, though obviously it’s just a guess. There is, of course, some chance that he doesn’t pan out, and the odds that he’s as good as De La Cruz (or Corbin Carroll, or any number of current phenoms) are definitely less than 50% in my eyes. But if you’re wondering who the next capital-d Dude is gonna be, Wood is my best guess. Would the Nats trade him for anyone in this range? No way. But he’s ranked 50th as a reminder that prospects probably belong somewhere on the list, even if it can be tricky to decide exactly where.

Five-Year WAR 12.4
Guaranteed Dollars
Team Control Through 2028
Previous Rank
Year Age Projected WAR Contract Status
2024 26 2.6 Pre-Arb
2025 27 2.6 Pre-Arb
2026 28 2.6 Arb 1
2027 29 2.4 Arb 2
2028 30 2.2 Arb 3
Pre-Arb
Arb

Jung’s value has pin-balled wildly over the past few years. He was a top prospect coming into last season, and the Rangers cleared a spot for him, but he missed the first half of the year thanks to a torn labrum in his left shoulder. He struggled upon his return (hardly unusual after a major surgery) and came into 2023 without quite the same hype that accompanied his previous campaign. Naturally, he lit the league on fire right away, though a slump in the second half of June brought his numbers back down to earth.

Jung’s game is built around raw power, and he looks like a perennial 30-homer guy when healthy. He’s an above-average defender at third base to boot. His biggest weakness is a propensity to chase, which leads to a worrisome number of strikeouts. It’s attributable as much to strike zone judgment as it is to approach; Jung isn’t particularly aggressive over the heart of the plate, but he swings too often at breaking balls below the zone.

That kind of profile tends to work out more often than not; power-and-defense third basemen can put up valuable seasons without huge on-base numbers, and Jung’s plate discipline is more worrisome than unfixable. His minor league track record is a mark in his favor, too. The biggest risk here is injury, and it’s a major concern at this point. Jung missed half of 2021 with a foot injury, then half of 2022 with the aforementioned shoulder issue. That’s two more major injuries than you’d hope for. Without that history, Jung would finish higher here, but risk aversion matters when you’re considering trading multiple prospects for one player.

Five-Year WAR 10.8
Guaranteed Dollars $44.0 M
Team Control Through 2030
Previous Rank #15
Year Age Projected WAR Contract Status
2024 27 2.5 $7.0 M
2025 28 2.5 $7.0 M
2026 29 2.1 $7.0 M
2027 30 2.0 $7.0 M
2028 31 1.7 $8.0 M

Hayes has been the apple of my eye for a long time, but I’m finally starting to shake off the spell. He has a lot going for him – he’s the best defensive third baseman in baseball, he makes consistent, loud contact, and he’s under contract for a long time at a low rate. There’s just one problem: All that loud contact goes straight into the ground, and the chances of that fixing itself look slim at this point.

Hayes is a generational defender, but that can only get you so far. He put up a 3-WAR season last year with an 88 wRC+, but that’s pretty much his ceiling unless he can get himself sorted out at the plate. Even as he’s started to elevate the ball more frequently this year, his hardest contact still comes on grounders, and there’s just no offense to be had that way.

If I were a GM, I’d be calling the Pirates about Hayes because an adjustment at the plate could turn him into peak Josh Donaldson in a heartbeat. But rationally, I have to admit that a sudden transformation seems increasingly unlikely. You can only be a below-average hitter for so long before potential stops mattering and (lack of) production takes over. I hope I’m wrong about Hayes’ trajectory, but at this point he looks more like a role player on an attractive deal than a future superstar.

Five-Year WAR 11.6
Guaranteed Dollars
Team Control Through 2027
Previous Rank
Year Age Projected WAR Contract Status
2024 26 2.3 Pre-Arb
2025 27 2.5 Arb 1
2026 28 2.5 Arb 2
2027 29 2.2 Arb 3
Pre-Arb
Arb

While we’re on the topic of players I love to an irrational degree, Nootbaar is the new top of the list. He has a patience and power skill set, consistently posting double-digit walk rates throughout his pro career while generating 80th-percentile maximum exit velocities in his time with the big league club. He’s a plus outfielder who can play all three positions, and he even has a strong throwing arm. In a lot of ways, he’s all the good things about the various Cardinals outfielders of recent vintage rolled into one.

With all those good things out of the way, let’s get to some negatives. He hit far too many grounders in the minors, a tendency that is rearing its head again this year. He’s missed time with injury in each of the last two seasons. He’s too passive at the plate; though he never chases, he gets himself into bad counts thanks to a low swing rate over the heart of the zone, and he has enough swing-and-miss that he ends up with a pedestrian strikeout rate despite rarely swinging at bad pitches.

For me, the total package works out to a borderline All-Star with a ton of team control remaining. For some of the people I talked to, both internally and on the team side, he’s more of an average player (with injury risk to boot). He’s got promise, no doubt, but I heard plenty of feedback that the glass was half empty.

Me? I’m a glass half full guy, at least when it comes to Nootbaar. I like betting on players with Nootbaar’s skill set and drive to improve, and even in a down year, he’s on pace for a 3.5-WAR season. Seems like a valuable trade chip to me.

Five-Year WAR 9.9
Guaranteed Dollars
Team Control Through 2028
Previous Rank
Year Age Projected WAR Contract Status
2024 26 2.1 Pre-Arb
2025 27 2.1 Pre-Arb
2026 28 2.0 Arb 1
2027 29 1.9 Arb 2
2028 30 1.8 Arb 3
Pre-Arb
Arb

Steer doesn’t have a defensive home. He has bounced around between first, third, and left this year, and he’s probably slightly below average at all three. As awkward as he looks in the field, though, he’s a natural at the plate. He combines above-average power with an excellent sense of the strike zone; I see years of double-digit walk rates in his future, and he doesn’t strike out very much, which makes his offensive floor very high indeed.

In the long run, Steer’s development might best be served by finding him an everyday spot, but his versatility has already paid off for the Reds as they’ve shuffled through lineups amid promotions and injuries. That would be a bonus for any team looking to trade for him, too; it’s a lot easier to construct a lineup when one of your top hitters isn’t 1B/DH only, even if they aren’t a defensive whiz.

If you’re looking for a comparison from recent baseball, think of Kris Bryant on the Cubs with the volume turned down a bit. I don’t think Steer will average a 140 wRC+, and I don’t think he’ll be above average at any defensive position, but that version of Bryant was so good that even 80% of him would be a perennial All-Star candidate. That’s the vibe I get from Steer.

Five-Year WAR 9.5
Guaranteed Dollars
Team Control Through 2027
Previous Rank
Year Age Projected WAR Contract Status
2024 28 2.4 Pre-Arb
2025 29 2.2 Arb 1
2026 30 1.9 Arb 2
2027 31 1.6 Arb 3
Pre-Arb
Arb

Does your team need a reliable starter? Of course it does. This is baseball we’re talking about; every team needs more pitching all the time. Ryan promises to deliver just that – frequent and reliable pitching – at a bargain rate for years to come. His big league track record is now long enough that I’m willing to believe his fastball-first approach will work; it’s a good enough pitch, and his new splitter complements it well enough, that he doesn’t need to change anything to be sustainably solid.

The big risk with trading for a pitcher is that they might get hurt. One season of an ace sounds a lot worse than two and a half seasons, but a serious injury could keep them on the shelf for about that long. As a trade chip, Ryan is relatively immune to that risk, because he’ll be around for a long time. He isn’t due to hit free agency until after the 2027 season, which means a lost year won’t torpedo his entire time with a team.

What gives Ryan the edge over the crop of rookie starters on the list of honorable mentions? It’s the certainty, more or less. Pitchers always have some likelihood of injury, but they also have a likelihood of taking a leap forward into stardom. Ryan marries that potential leap with a high floor; the combination of that and the amount of time you could have him on your team makes him more valuable than you might think.

Five-Year WAR 13.0
Guaranteed Dollars
Team Control Through 2025
Previous Rank #33
Year Age Projected WAR Contract Status
2024 29 3.4 Arb 2
2025 30 2.9 Arb 3
Arb

I’m a sucker for great up-the-middle defenders. Luckily for Mullins, so are the vast majority of big league GMs. Mullins is durable and he’s a 70 defender in center field. Even if he couldn’t hit at all, he’d be a surefire starter for most teams in baseball based on those two factors alone. That makes for a lofty floor; it’s hard to imagine a world where a team trading for Mullins does worse than a rock-solid everyday player.

Mullins has been much better than that over the past three years, and I wouldn’t bet on it changing anytime soon. He gets on base and hits a ton of doubles, making him an ideal top-of-the-order bat. He’s under contract for two more years, which is about the only downside worth mentioning. That’s not even a clear downside, though; at that point, Mullins will be entering his age-31 season, an age when defensive value often declines.

The value proposition here is really clear: Trade for a great defender who will likely hit well, for a few key years, starting right now. After that, wipe your hands clean and move on. I considered moving Mullins up the list even more despite the limited service time, and at the end of the day, only four hitters in Mullins’s future free agency class (the 2025-26 offseason) placed ahead of him on the list. You might not think of him as a star, but this level of defense coupled with above-average hitting is a tremendously valuable combination.

Five-Year WAR 2.9
Guaranteed Dollars
Team Control Through 2028
Previous Rank #HM
Year Age Projected WAR Contract Status
2024 22 0.3 Pre-Arb
2025 23 0.5 Pre-Arb
2026 24 0.6 Arb 1
2027 25 0.7 Arb 2
2028 26 0.8 Arb 3
Pre-Arb
Arb

Whoa there, hold up Cardinals fans — don’t go getting out the pitchforks after looking at that ZiPS projection. ZiPS isn’t in love with Walker, but the numbers above are a result of the system projecting him as an absolutely abysmal defender for years to come. Switch him to DH and his projection would improve by an aggregate six wins. It’s inconceivable that Walker would actually be that bad defensively; he’ll either improve, or he’ll move to first base or DH.

His defensive issues are a real negative, but his offensive profile is still full of upside. We’re talking about a potential ultra-premium power bat, the kind of game-changing hitter who doesn’t grow on trees. Even in a fairly lackluster rookie season – way, way too many grounders have put a lid on his batting line – his outrageous power stands out. He’s absolutely crushing the ball when he makes contact and hasn’t proven easily exploitable despite his Stretch Armstrong frame. We’re talking about a premier power hitter for years to come, one with Giancarlo Stanton upside.

That upside isn’t guaranteed, which is why Walker doesn’t place higher on the list. If he ends up as merely a good hitter instead of a great one, his value will take a huge hit thanks to the sheer mass of solid hitters without defensive homes. That’s the risk. The reward is fairly obvious, though: You might end up with the next incarnation of Aaron Judge (minus the ability to moonlight in center). A lot of teams would take that gamble.

Five-Year WAR 12.5
Guaranteed Dollars
Team Control Through 2028
Previous Rank #38
Year Age Projected WAR Contract Status
2024 25 2.1 Pre-Arb
2025 26 2.4 Pre-Arb
2026 27 2.6 Arb 1
2027 28 2.9 Arb 2
2028 29 2.5 Arb 3
Pre-Arb
Arb

If you want Elly De La Cruz but can’t have him, what about the closest possible thing? Cruz has similar upside as an 80-power/80-speed shortstop, only with more red flags thrown in. His strikeout rate was enough to hold him back from greatness in 2022, while a brutal leg fracture early this season has limited him to just nine games so far. He’s only racked up 410 big league plate appearances, which means we still have a lot to learn about whether someone with his colossal frame can make enough contact and stay healthy enough to realize his sky-high potential.

Even with those risks, I think a lot of teams would be calling if the Pirates made Cruz available. The upside has always been mammoth, but it’s even more apparent now that De La Cruz is here to provide a proof of concept. This skill set can work, and it can work incredibly well. I’m not saying that it wasn’t possible before, but now it’s not even up for debate.

In a year, Cruz will either be a much more valuable or much less valuable trade chip. At some point, potential needs to turn into production, or the odds of things working out decline precipitously. That makes Cruz’s place on the list kind of silly – the Pirates aren’t going to trade him anytime soon, which makes this purely theoretical. This whole list is an exercise in theory, though, and I think that this valuation properly weighs the future paths Cruz might take.

Five-Year WAR 13.3
Guaranteed Dollars $49.7 M
Team Control Through 2029
Previous Rank #HM
Year Age Projected WAR Contract Status
2024 24 2.5 $3.3 M
2025 25 2.6 $6.3 M
2026 26 2.7 $8.3 M
2027 27 2.8 $15.3 M
2028 28 2.7 $16.3 M

I lost count of the number of people who pointed out Greene’s fastball shape during my cross-checking. For a guy who lives around 100 mph on the radar gun, his heater is exceedingly hittable. The total package works out, though, because his slider is sensational. He’ll likely always walk a few too many batters, but as long as he has that nasty breaking ball, I think he’ll pile up enough strikeouts to make the whole thing work.

I think Greene is one of the players with the greatest disconnect between the baseball industry consensus and what the general public thinks. Six affordable years of a 23-year-old pitcher with this kind of stuff? It sounds like a bonanza. Meanwhile, a number of people I talked to questioned whether he belonged on this list at all. That’s how seriously talent evaluators are taking Greene’s perceived fastball deficiency.

I’m closer to the people than the elites on this one. I get it: Greene isn’t a blow-’em-away-high pitcher, and he might never become one. But I like how well he’s adapted to life at the major league level, using his fastball as a complementary tool rather than sticking with it while it got bludgeoned. Greene is young enough that the cement isn’t yet dry on his game; it’s more important that he has the tools to improve than that he’s a finished product now. The only reason I didn’t push him higher on the list is a hip injury that sounds like it will hold him out through August.

2023 Trade Value, 41-50
Rk Pv Player Age 2024 2025 2026 2027 2028
41 HM Hunter Greene 23 2.5
$3.3 M
2.6
$6.3 M
2.7
$8.3 M
2.8
$15.3 M
2.7
$16.3 M
42 38 Oneil Cruz 24 2.1
Pre-Arb
2.4
Pre-Arb
2.6
Arb 1
2.9
Arb 2
2.5
Arb 3
43 HM Jordan Walker 21 0.3
Pre-Arb
0.5
Pre-Arb
0.6
Arb 1
0.7
Arb 2
0.8
Arb 3
44 33 Cedric Mullins 28 3.4
Arb 2
2.9
Arb 3
45 Joe Ryan 27 2.4
Pre-Arb
2.2
Arb 1
1.9
Arb 2
1.6
Arb 3
46 Spencer Steer 25 2.1
Pre-Arb
2.1
Pre-Arb
2.0
Arb 1
1.9
Arb 2
1.8
Arb 3
47 Lars Nootbaar 25 2.3
Pre-Arb
2.5
Arb 1
2.5
Arb 2
2.2
Arb 3
48 15 Ke’Bryan Hayes 26 2.5
$7.0 M
2.5
$7.0 M
2.1
$7.0 M
2.0
$7.0 M
1.7
$8.0 M
49 Josh Jung 25 2.6
Pre-Arb
2.6
Pre-Arb
2.6
Arb 1
2.4
Arb 2
2.2
Arb 3
50 James Wood 20 0.9
Pre-Arb
1.4
Pre-Arb
1.9
Pre-Arb
2.3
Arb 1
2.7
Arb 2
Pre-Arb
Arb





Ben is a writer at FanGraphs. He can be found on Bluesky @benclemens.

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HowBoutDemOsMember since 2019
3 years ago

Mannnnn I don’t know about some of these! Even setting aside the prospects who do not rate as highly (they’re within the margin of error, so whatever), you’re going to have a tough time convincing anyone that Joe Ryan, Spencer Steer, or Lars Nootbaar would have a more robust market than Jackson Holliday.

EonADSMember since 2024
3 years ago
Reply to  HowBoutDemOs

Let’s give him more than 20 PA about AA ball before we name him the next A-Rod.

Also, teams tend to like known qualities more than lottery tickets. I love Holiday, and I believe he’s going to haunt everyone he faces for years. But he’s not there yet.

KvnMember since 2026
3 years ago
Reply to  EonADS

I mean that’s fair, but that’s no so different than James Wood who’s been not exactly tearing up AA and he’s on there.

HowBoutDemOsMember since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  EonADS

If I were anointing him the next A-Rod, I’d be arguing he should be #1 overall, not 40-50. I know he presents huge uncertainty, which is why he belongs in this area and not higher.

As for your second point, I just absolutely disagree with it and think it’s obviously wrong. I do not think they like known quantities more than lotto tickets. Always depends on who the known quantity and lotto ticket are, of course, but teams prefer (for good reason) the upside of a potential superstar.

Lanidrac
3 years ago
Reply to  HowBoutDemOs

It depends on their contention window. Teams that are contending now absolutely prefer a known quantity, whether it’s the trade deadline or the offseason. It’s why trades of established players to contenders for prospects to non-contenders are so common, even during the offseason.

andrewpaulMember since 2026
3 years ago
Reply to  EonADS

Do you really think if Mike Elias called up St. Louis and offered Jackson Holliday for Lars Nootbar, they’d say no?

Last edited 3 years ago by andrewpaul
Lanidrac
3 years ago
Reply to  andrewpaul

It depends on whether they think Holliday would help them more in 2024 than Nootbaar would. Given the risk involved with a prospect like Holliday having a great rookie year as soon as next year, the answer is likely no.

Dmjn53
3 years ago
Reply to  EonADS

he doesn’t have to be the next A-Rod to be more valuable than Spencer Steer

casey jMember since 2026
3 years ago
Reply to  EonADS

A-Rod would rank higher than K’Bryan Hayes lol. Holliday has a career .472 OBP so far. The O’s would not take 4 K’Bryan Hayes’s for Holliday, despite him being no-ARod.

slz
3 years ago
Reply to  EonADS

Ok, if we’re playing this game why would we take James Wood over Holliday? Even setting aside normal prospect caveats, Wood has the Jordan Walker profile where the couple good things he does have to hit. Holliday’s offense can fall off in the majors and he can still be a mainstay on this list for the rest of the decade

jreyn24Member since 2025
3 years ago
Reply to  slz

Ceiling vs floor. Wood has a better shot at becoming Judge-lite than Holliday does becoming A-Rod-lite. Even if Holliday is safer.

slz
3 years ago
Reply to  jreyn24

Projecting HOF talent out of anyone is a fool’s errand but why are we sure about that? Holliday has murdered the lower minors. We don’t need to call him A-Rod. His dad’s offense with decent SS defense would be better than Lindor, who is only a few WAR below Judge since Judge has come into the league.

And I mean, he probably doesnt keep running mid .400 OBPs as he progresses through the upper minors and into the majors.

Just like James Wood probably doesnt stick in CF, run a .300+ ISO and hit for average while K-ing nearly 30% of the time like Judge does.

But if Holliday’s ceiling is Juan Soto (.280/.420/.520) with good SS defense that’s every bit as good as Wood’s ceiling. They’re both yearly MVP candidates if they hit that

TheUncool
2 years ago
Reply to  slz

Don’t think y’all should focus on Wood vs Holliday… bc that’s extremely speculative and can vary a good deal (or not really at all) depending on which prospect hound you ask. Besides, Wood is only #50 on the list. IF Holliday’s #51 (or 55 or whatever) or vice versa, it’s really not that big a deal (just as how it’d be w/ typical top 100 prospect lists in their tier). They should probably both be roughly in the same tier — and FG’s FV for both seems 60 (according to their player pages).

Focus on why Holliday doesn’t seem to be somewhere in this ballpark/tier (of say top 55 it’d seem)… and why someone like Nootbar is probably getting so much (somewhat irrational) love instead.

Nootbar seems pretty good and may still have some additional upside, but he’s not really quite that young anymore nor proven to be a reliable mainstay (due to being possibly injury-prone) nor has quite that much cheap control left w/ just 1 remaining pre-arb season left. One could probably say something similar about Hayes too, just that he has an extra year of control, but it’s not completely clear that’s actually extra surplus value over Nootbar.

Last edited 2 years ago by TheUncool
HowBoutDemOsMember since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  HowBoutDemOs

Another way of thinking about this: Had Nootbaar or Steer been available in this year’s draft, would they have gone #1? Absolutely not. If we just assume everyone signs a slot deal, I don’t think they’d go ahead of any of Crews, Skenes, or Langford.

I think my more general point is that in the intro you rightly make the point that value is not linear because stars are worth more than the straight line of WAR suggests. Yet this back 10 is full of solid players with lots of team control but without star upside. There are a decent number of players left off the list entirely, starting with Holliday, who I think just obviously have more value than much of this group.

EonADSMember since 2024
3 years ago
Reply to  HowBoutDemOs

The other side of this is guys like Torkelson, who fell off drastically. There are more young guys at the bottom of this list than last year. But Jackson probably juuuuuust misses the cut because of lack of assurance. He was probably still in high-A when this was written.

HowBoutDemOsMember since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  EonADS

Yeah no doubt, we shouldn’t assume prospects achieve their projections. And I think Torkelson is a good example of why Walker does not belong on this list, even though I like his upside quite a bit! R/R players without defensive value just have a very narrow path to stardom. Both those guys have the offensive profile to get there, but it’s hard to become an awesome MLB hitter. Holliday presents a different case imo because he has a lot of pathways to providing lots of value.

maximus74Member since 2025
3 years ago
Reply to  HowBoutDemOs

eh, walker is almost 3 years younger than torkelson and already has proven more with the bat even with the GB% issues

Lanidrac
3 years ago
Reply to  HowBoutDemOs

The difference with Walker is that he has already established himself as a good Major League hitter. Even if his game never improves any further and he needs to be the primary DH, that’s still a darn good floor for a guy with over 6 years of control remaining.

Besides, there’s also the option of Walker potentially moving back to his natural position of 3B someday.

Last edited 3 years ago by Lanidrac
GoodEnoughForMeMember since 2024
3 years ago
Reply to  HowBoutDemOs

I’m going to push back on the first point because I think a 3.5 war a year player absolutely would be a #1 pick. If healthy and given a long career that’s a “hall of very good player” with a sprinkling of all star bids. Torkelson, Mize, Royce Lewis, Moniak, and Appel have all been #1 picks in the last ten years. Nootbaar is way better than them. A 100% guaranteed player of that caliber would practically break the draft if you could trade that pick.

HowBoutDemOsMember since 2019
3 years ago

We’ll just have to agree to disagree there. Teams who pick #1 understand the bust potential, but they’re looking for potential superstars. Yes, those guys you listed have been #1 picks (too early to put Torkelson or Lewis there I think, but there have been other busts. How about Luke Hochevar!). But Adley Rutschman, Dansby Swanson, Carlos Correa, Gerrit Cole, Bryce Harper, Stephen Strasburg, and David Price have also gone #1 in recent years (and if you want to go back further, we can start counting first ballot HOFers). I don’t think there’s any chance in the world that Lars Nootbaar would have gone #1 this year in a draft with at least three guys who everyone agrees present superstar upside.

OtterMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  HowBoutDemOs

This is a silly argument because no one would take soon to be 26 year old Nootbaar #1 in the 2023 draft and when Nootbaar was draft eligible, he hadn’t developed into the player he is today.

HowBoutDemOsMember since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  Otter

But the fact that nobody would take soon to be 26 year old Nootbaar #1 is exactly my point. That means he’s not as valuable as Skenes, Crews, Langford.

Lanidrac
3 years ago
Reply to  Otter

That’s actually kind of the point. There is NO bust potential if you could somehow put an established and still relatively young above-average Major League player back in the draft. Every contending team would absolutely take such a guy at #1 if you could guarantee he wouldn’t bust and would need no time in the minor leagues. A guaranteed pick like that that is absolutely more valuable than a superstar lottery ticket to contending teams.

Last edited 3 years ago by Lanidrac
TheUncool
2 years ago
Reply to  Lanidrac

Given what we’ve seen, yes, there are absolutely a few GMs/teams who would take Nootbar #1… but those are usually awful GMs/teams at drafting, farm development and MLB roster construction, LOL.

Yes, Nootbar would probably fulfill their goal, but that doesn’t mean their goals were ever that good though… or they would be better, more frequent, serious contenders instead of perennial losers, except perhaps for the Moneyball A’s of the past before most of the league caught up w/ them…

Lanidrac
3 years ago
Reply to  HowBoutDemOs

If you know in advance that you can sign them and immediately plug them onto your Major League roster to immediately have an above-average Major League player, then yes, many teams would indeed take Nootbaar or Steer with the #1 overall pick at slot bonus value.

TheUncool
2 years ago
Reply to  Lanidrac

Don’t forget though that Nootbar isn’t actually a reliable, finished product though. I’d agree some GMs/teams would probably take him #1, but probably not quite as many as you think — he seems a tad injury-prone and hasn’t actually proven himself for a full season yet despite only having 4 more seasons of control left.

Maybe if we’re talking a Nootbar who can be expected to stay healthy plus come w/ full 6 years of control, then that might get you to having large majority of teams taking him #1 I guess, but those are substantial IFs though.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  HowBoutDemOs

Joe Ryan has the lowest xERA in baseball this year, and Lars Nootbaar is a solid 3.5 win guy. I think you could go either way on them over Jackson Holliday.

However, Spencer Steer and Ke’Bryan Hayes definitely do not belong on this list. Steer’s BABIP is a mirage, and he has no position; I don’t think he compares well to someone like Kerry Carpenter (who can play defense somewhere , who also shouldn’t be anywhere near this list. And I don’t buy that Hayes is going to have a sustainable breakout at the plate.

HowBoutDemOsMember since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I’ll confess that I reacted to Joe Ryan’s name without seeing his peripherals, which surprise me. I still have trouble seeing him as much different than a guy like Heim though–that is, a previously decent player now having a breakout. Will teams buy this is his true self? I’d have to look more closely, but I’m skeptical, but I’m also always skeptical about pitchers specifically. I personally would not entertain a Holliday – Ryan trade, but maybe others disagree.

I don’t think Nootbaar is a solid 3.5 win guy, and even if he is I don’t think he’s likely to ever be much more than that. Good player, plenty of value, but outfielders of his caliber come along all the time and can also basically be recreated on the cheap by platooning if you’re willing to use up the extra roster spot.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  HowBoutDemOs

Ryan is gonna be spectacular if they ever decide to stop playing guys like Julien at positions where he really shouldn’t ever be playing.

Nootbaar is on place for 3.7 wins over 600 PAs while underperforming his batted ball data. That’s something like the #55 position player in major league baseball, and that’s the bird-in-hand. And if you buy that he’s CF-capable (and he’s positive in defensive value there this year) then he’s at a position of scarcity and his WAR is going to shoot way up. So, no, I don’t agree that there isn’t any upside there. Although I admit that I am skeptical that he is going to be much better than a 3.5 win player, I’d say he has at least as much upside as downside.

HowBoutDemOsMember since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

We’ll have to agree to disagree on Nootbaar. He hits a ton of grounders, and I’m skeptical of any WAR/600 for a left-handed hitter if they haven’t established they can hit lefties (his career numbers look ok but this year not so much). I’m just not seeing a potential star there.

PC1970Member since 2024
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

& Riley Greene is on a 4.4 over 600 PA pace, is similar in the field (both are a little stretched in CF, above average in RF/LF) AND is 3 years younger with 1 more year of team control.

HowBoutDemOsMember since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  PC1970

Yeah while I share sadtrombone’s overall skepticism about Riley Greene reaching superstar status, I’d for sure take him over Lars Nootbaar, no doubt.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  PC1970

I mean…that’s an argument for Greene to be on the list, not for Nootbar too be off it.

PC1970Member since 2024
3 years ago

Agreed..I was just making the obvious comparison since they’re somewhat similar players

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  PC1970

I think that Greene’s defense in is likely all downhill from here, whereas I’m not sure about Nootbaar. But the main issues is that lack of power, when combined with the strikeouts, is really concerning to me for Greene in a way that it isn’t for Nootbaar (their expected homer rate is almost identical). Greene is running a .417 BABIP; I know that the batted ball data says that he’s earned it but there’s a difference between earning it in the past and being able to keep it going for the future.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

The batted ball data doesn’t say that he’s earned his BABIP – it says that quite a few more of the liners that he sprays everywhere should have been doubles.

Statcast thinks he’s a .275/.350/.475 guy with a .350 BABIP

His GB% is right at 50%, this year – he just had an ugly “GB/FB” because his LD% is so high!

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago

Right, what I am saying is it is super hard to hit that many liners. This is the curse of Eric Hosmer–he relied heavily on hitting liners all the time, and he couldn’t do it. So there’s some real downside risk here.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

But even that “downside” is something like Nick Markakis, given his defense.

Pachoo9Member since 2021
3 years ago
Reply to  PC1970

Yep, I’d take Greene over Nootbar for sure. Markedly younger with more present and future potential imo.

Lanidrac
3 years ago
Reply to  HowBoutDemOs

I disagree that 3.5 WAR outfielders are all that common or can be commonly created in a platoon. Maybe for guys consistently worth 2 or even 2.5 WAR, but beyond that they’re much harder to find or platoon.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I <i>do</I> think Steer’s being a bad defensive 1B is a much bigger flag than his .310 BABIP…but yeah.

Very confusing to see Steer and Hayes here over the likes of Riley Greene…and I don’t think the O’s would do Holliday-Wood straight up, but I think the Nats would.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago

I am a Riley Greene skeptic, probably the last one in the world, and even I think he belongs on this list more than Steer and Hayes.

Left of Centerfield
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I was wondering if Steven Kwan deserves to be on this list. Seeing Nootbaar makes me think he does deserve to be on here but I also have a hard time seeing him being above #40.

But just comparing:

-They’re almost exactly the same age (Nootbaar is 3 days younger)
-They’ve done about the same in the majors (Kwan 5.9 WAR in 239 games, Nootbaar 5.0 WAR in 229 games).
-Career wRC+ of 113 vs 116

The one advantage that Nootbaar has is more power which teams tend to value more than Kwan’s defense/OBP. On the other hand, the ZiPS 3-year projections on their player pages shows Kwan at +2.2 WAR (I imagine that Ben has access to more updated info that we can’t see).

Anyway, I have a hard time making a strong case for one over the other.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
3 years ago

Nootbar’s batted ball numbers are a lot stronger.

Kwan does take his walks and get his steals…but he’s just a lot more exposed to BABIP variance than Nootbar.

Left of Centerfield
3 years ago

Fair enough though Kwan has a 4.4 WAR season whereas Nootbaar hasn’t even had a 3.0 WAR season yet. And while Nootbaar came in at #48, Kwan didn’t even make the HM list. Again, I can see the case for Nootbaar over Kwan, just not that big of a gap.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
3 years ago

That’s just down to health/playing time, though.

And availability matters! But I don’t think we have enough of a sample to label Nootbar injury prone, at this point.

TheUncool
2 years ago

Whatever you label him, he still hasn’t actually proven to be a 3.5-WAR player for a(ny) full season though, NVM multiple full seasons. That’s still just projection w/out quite that much proven support — yes, it’s certainly a fair deal more supported than most any rookie/prospect w/ say just a couple months of solid MLB experience, but not a ton more though w/ basically just 1 full combined season split across 1.5 years so far w/ questions about his durability, if nothing else. Plus there’s far less upside at this point than a substantially younger rookie/prospect w/ a couple months of fairly good production.

Last edited 2 years ago by TheUncool
TheUncool
2 years ago
Reply to  TheUncool

Anyway, I’m not necessarily hating Nootbar being on the list (or perhaps just barely outside… as I think the late-40’s to say #55 aren’t really that big a diff). But besides the talent and durability questions, Nootbar also only has 4 years of control left (and only 1 pre-arb year) and no meaningful way to push free agency (or arbitration years) further to wait for any development if needed, including the questions about him actually staying on the field…

Basically, the issue may be who got completely left off even from being honorable mentions (for being very close) it seems…

mcgobMember since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I’d like to hear why you think steers babip is a mirage? It isn’t crazy high.

Lanidrac
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

The “no position argument” only really mattered back when half the teams didn’t play with the DH. Now that most teams could just make such a guy their primary DH if necessary (even if it means they have to put a subpar but still relatively superior defender back in the field), it’s no longer that big of a hit to their trade value.

Last edited 3 years ago by Lanidrac
TKDCMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  HowBoutDemOs

It is a bit odd that after the introduction stressed the value of stars over average or slightly above average players, nine out of the first 10 guys have zero years of team control projected at 3+ WAR. Would 3.5 years of cheapish Lars Nootbar really attract a higher highest bid than 4.5 years of Freddie Freeman at $27 million?

Last edited 3 years ago by TKDC
HowBoutDemOsMember since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

Completely agree.

baubo
3 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

Projection systems by default are going to have lower average WAR for young players vs older ones, due to their inherent volatility of bad outcome = 0 WAR that you won’t see for veterans. If you’re predicting “number of 3+ WAR seasons under team control” for all these guys 41-50, I bet the results are going to be a lot of such seasons.

Sure some of these guys may bust, some may not develop much, but some may also turn into superstars and by 2024 trade value column, people are going to wonder why they weren’t mentioned in top 10 back in 2023. There is a lot of variance within this group and a lot of that vairance is pointing upward.

TheUncool
2 years ago
Reply to  baubo

Which begs the Q why some of those prospects and/or some of these guys didn’t either end up as honorable mentions or simply change the list to tier rankings and/or expand to top 60 or more instead.

Heck, top prospect rankings usually go to top 100 or so… and we all know there’s tons of variability there…

tung_twista
3 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

Possibly, because you are comparing 25~28 year old Nootbar and 33~37 year old Freeman. 
Dodgers would not want to trade Freeman for Nootbar, but neither would the Cardinals, and not just because of Goldschmidt. 

Recent 1B (future) HoFer’s age 34-37 season

Bagwell
wrc+ 127 fwar 12.2

Votto
wrc+ 121 fwar 7.6

Helton
wrc+ 112 fwar 5.0

Pujols
wrc+ 107 fwar 3.2

Miggy
wrc+ 100 fwar 0.0

Bagwell is the only player whose performance exceeded what you could expect from $108M. 
Votto was arguably worth it considering the shortened season of 2020, but in the same time frame, he was merely 11th/10th/11th by fwar/WPA/batting runs among 1B, so the surplus value, if it exists, would not be that much.

TKDCMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  tung_twista

Well, you forgot the Crime Dog, who should seemingly count if Bagwell does, and he had 10.4. Paul Goldschmidt is also two years older than Freeman and his 34-37 seasons are looking like they will be pretty dang good too.

It is true that some guys at first base fall off fast, since losing offensive abilities craters their value, and Miggy literally has it happen at age 34! However, Freeman is not really the big bodied slugger type. Hell, he’s adding stealing bases to his game the last two seasons. Even a conservative true value for him right now (let’s say 5.0-5.5 WAR) and an aggressive aging curve (-0.7 per year) would predict he will not age beyond “useful starter” by age 37, and you’re getting “top-10 player” right now.

I don’t know how others think, but I’d rather have him and his contract than a bunch of the guys on the top 50 list. Yes, his age presents a risk, but the limited years and his very high baseline mitigate that a lot.

Lanidrac
3 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

But also keep in mind that his contract puts a cap on Freeman’s value. You don’t just have to worry about whether his performance will hold up but also whether you can afford to pay him while his performance starts to decline even if he ages relatively well.

jreyn24Member since 2025
3 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

Yeah scarcity matters. There’s far far more players out there that are a tweak or two away from turning into Nootbaar than there are turning into Freddie Freeman.

68FCMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

The silly economics of baseball messes with this thought experiment. There are 25+ teams that would be interested in a guy like Nootbar, there are maybe 5 that would consider Freeman just because he is expensive and most owners are very cheap. There is a reason that most of the FMV stars are concentrated on a few teams. Once there are only a few teams that would be willing to take on the salary commitment, then fit and positional need matter more. That suppresses his market considerably.

TKDCMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  68FC

I think this is way off, partially because $27 million is not quite a discount on “top dollar.” The only teams I simply could not see being in on Freeman based on “philosophy,” or as you put it, cheapness, are: Oakland, TB, KC, Houston, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Chicago (AL), and Miami. You could possibly add a few more, but around half the league would not run for the hills just because a guy has 4/$108 million coming his way.

68FCMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

Freeman was a free agent 18 months ago and signed that contract. No other team offered him more money then and now he older and has already gone through a season and a half of the surplus value portion of the contract.

Pretty much by definition players have no trade value immediately after signing free agent deals unless they gave the signing team a discount. Teams aren’t going to offer trade value for a contract they aren’t willing to sign the player to if they were a free agent. Would Freeman beat 4/108 on the free agent market now?

If Nootbar was a free agent, what would he end up signing for over the next four years? Almost certainly more than he will get paid in arb.

TKDCMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  68FC

This is silly. Freeman in 2022 carried risk of decline/injury/etc. and instead he seems to have miraculously taken a step forward at age 32-33. The baseline of Freeman now compared to what a normal aging curve would tell you following the 2021 season are not even close. At least 2 WAR apart. And he honestly signed a mediocre deal, largely because of the lock out and his willingness to try to wait out the Braves.

On top of that, as soon as he signed that deal, worldwide inflation boomed. Everything about this opinion makes no sense to me.

nevinbrownMember since 2022
3 years ago
Reply to  HowBoutDemOs

There are still 40 more names to go

Jon
3 years ago
Reply to  HowBoutDemOs

Agreed, you put Nootbaar on any team in baseball and every single one would be lining up to trade him straight up for Holliday.

Lanidrac
3 years ago
Reply to  Jon

Not if they’re contending, they won’t! If Nootbaar was playing for a contending team this year, why the heck would they dump him for a prospect and lower their chances of making the playoffs and ultimately their chances of winning the World Series this year?! Even for the Cardinals, Nootbaar is more valuable to them for their plans to contend next year in 2024 and maybe even in 2025.

Last edited 3 years ago by Lanidrac
The Duke
3 years ago
Reply to  HowBoutDemOs

I just don’t see the value of having a bunch of guys on the list who won’t be moved. The list should only really be comprised of people who are actually marketable. Who cares about Holliday or Walker. They aren’t moving

jreyn24Member since 2025
3 years ago
Reply to  The Duke

Disagree. This exercise is way more fun when it’s fully comprehensive.

The Duke
3 years ago
Reply to  jreyn24

Maybe the title of the article (and the series ) is wrong

Antonio BananasMember since 2026
3 years ago
Reply to  The Duke

It’s not. This is fangraphs and the readers know what it means.

68FCMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  The Duke

It is players who are marketable, not players who are being marketed. The reason guys like Holliday or Walker aren’t moving isn’t because they don’t have trade value, it is because they do have value.

A list of guys who are likely to be moved at this deadline would be very boring. A few bigger name players who we already know the order of their value and a lot of mildly interesting relievers that really could go in any order.

TKDCMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  The Duke

There is a whole other series about realistic possible trades. And then you can also just see them happen!!

bookbookMember since 2024
3 years ago
Reply to  HowBoutDemOs

Dustin Ackley, Jesus Montero, and even Jared Kelenic and Ryan Anderson say hi. Top prospects are always more fun. Actually more valuable? I’m not sure.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago

James Wood over Jackson Holliday! Bold statements right off the bat!

(for the record, I would have Holliday as #1, Caminero at #2, and Wood at #3, but Wood has the highest upside of anyone in the minors).

LCPC
3 years ago

I guess I’m resigned to the fact I’m just never going to understand the appeal of Lars Nootbar.

scotth855Member since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  LCPC

The 111 WRC+ doesn’t get you going???

KvnMember since 2026
3 years ago
Reply to  LCPC

It’s the funny name. I think Will Smith (either of them) would be much better regarded if his name was Lars Nootbar.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  LCPC

He’s above average at a lot of things. He gets on base, he plays good defense, and he runs the bases well. He’s probably the 20th best outfielder in major league baseball and he’s not up for arbitration until 2025. He only has 20-homer power, but aside from that, what’s not to like?

LCPC
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Yeah, I keep getting told he is a great player, then I watch my cardinals and, um, he’s not…

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  LCPC

It’s because he’s not “great” in any one area. Guys like that don’t stand out.

OtterMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Yeah, it takes watching the Clint Frazier, JB Shuck, or whatever bum Rick Hahn hopes won’t totally suck over the last decade to appreciate the Nootbaar’s of the world.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Different flavor of what Semien’s been in TX.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago

Except that Semien also has the amazing skill of getting 720 PAs in a season. The hardest ability to scout is dur-ability.

LCPC
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

True. He’s decent all around. I just don’t know if that would make him one of the most valuable players in the game. Like I started off this thread, I just don’t get it.

Last edited 3 years ago by LCPC
sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  LCPC

Keep in mind, he’s being paid minimum salary. If you’re the #55 position player and you’re getting paid nothing, you’re probably among the Top 50 most valuable trade pieces (although I’m not sure being cheap can carry you any further than where he is listed here).

kingharbaughMember since 2021
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Above average at a lot of things carries a lot of risk as you age. One skill drops off and all of a sudden you have a pumpkin. Not saying that will happen to Noot, but it’s reason to give pause.

Lanidrac
3 years ago
Reply to  kingharbaugh

Yeah, but by that time he’ll be eligible for free agency in the first place. This list only considers the player’s value while under team control, after all.

TheUncool
2 years ago
Reply to  Lanidrac

Not sure if that’s the case… since he can’t seem to stay on the field so far, LOL.

For all we know, he may even turn into some kinda pumpkin by next year if this continues and somehow worsens…

DLHughey
3 years ago
Reply to  LCPC

It’s a vogelbach-esque plate discipline/grounder-heavy profile plus the ability to play defense. That’s not great, and the passivity is only getting worse.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  DLHughey

Vogelbach with good OF defense and above-average baserunning is the good version of Aaron Hicks…who was a 4-win player, when healthy.

DLHughey
3 years ago

Vogelbach currently has a sub-100 wrc+ and a .126 ISO. That’s michael a taylor 2022, a 1.5-2 win player if he could run or play defense.

But Noot’s plate discipline is way more vogelbach-y than anyone wants to admit. Ben touched upon it, but it’s the sheer passivity that’s the problem. Nootbar is bottom tier in terms of z-swing. He’s not selective, he’s just passive, standing there looking for a walk.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  DLHughey

And last year Vogelbach had a 128 wRC+ and a .194 ISO. That’s a 5 win player with running and defense.

For his career, Vogelbach has a 109 wRC+ and a .186 ISO, which is…a 3-4 win player, with Nootbar’s running and defense.

That’s not even getting into how many doubles Vogelbach’s legs have turned into singles, over the years…or the fact that the only time Michael A Taylor managed a wRC+ as high as Vogelbach’s is now, he was worth 3 wins in 430 PA.

Last edited 3 years ago by Cool Lester Smooth
LCPC
3 years ago
Reply to  DLHughey

Exactly what I see when I watch him. Passivity. It’s almost as if he’s trying to walk and not hit.

cardinalskenobi
3 years ago
Reply to  LCPC

Take a look at his statcast page from last season and this season. It hasn’t completely translated to results yet, but based off of his statcast metrics Nootbaar has the potential to breakout in a big way. Also he has a fun name and seems to be super fun/charismatic.

rye890
3 years ago

I don’t like how this list has become all about prospects. Sure there are certain top prospects that will be among the most valuable players, but I think most franchises value players with at least some major league success much more than prospects.

HowBoutDemOsMember since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  rye890

Yeah I added a second comment above to make the larger point that I think this list values certainty too much. I cited Holliday as an example because A) I’m an O’s fan so I watch/think about him more than average and B) he got a lot of discussion in the other thread. But you can make the same point about a bunch of guys. Like in a proposed Nootbaar-Heim trade, I think it is very obvious that the Cardinals take it in a heartbeat and the Rangers would laugh uproariously before hanging up the phone. Now there are more MLB teams than just those two, but I think the large majority would prefer the catcher about to put up 5WAR and with lots of team control left than the outfielder who might never have a 3WAR season.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  HowBoutDemOs

Nootbar’s been worth over 4 WAR in the last calendar year, and Statcast actually thinks he’s been unlucky.

HowBoutDemOsMember since 2019
3 years ago

What has Jonah Heim been worth over the last calendar year?

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  HowBoutDemOs

4.0 WAR on the dot, haha!

HowBoutDemOsMember since 2019
3 years ago

Where are you pulling this from? Could be right, but Heim has 3.4 WAR alone this year, so that seems…surprising.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  HowBoutDemOs

The “last calendar year” function on FanGraphs leaderboards.

Heim put up 2.2 WAR on a 122 wRC+ in the first half, last year.

In the second half, he put up 0.6 WAR on a 72 wRC+.

Catching is hard!

baubo
3 years ago
Reply to  rye890

This probably speaks more to how MLB teams value players vs fangraph writers. Teams these days love their cost control players.

TribeToTheEndMember since 2016
3 years ago

It seems odd to me that Jordan Walker moved *up* the list relative to last year, given the year he’s had and the obvious yellow flags that have emerged on his profile (defense, GB%). Is that more a reflection of a methodology or philosophy change for the list, the overall talent level decreasing (seems unlikely), or do we actually think his value has increased year over year?

For the record, I am very much still in on Walker personally and I think his placement here strikes me as reasonable given the guys around him, I just can’t square it with him being an HM last year. If you have him at 44 *now*, it’s hard to believe he wasn’t at least 35-40 this time last year.

CC AFCMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  TribeToTheEnd

I think people are nitpicking Walker to death. He’s 21 and skipped AAA before being sent down part way into the year. The fact that he’s been 15% better than average offensively at that age with that little exposure to the high minors is outstanding. And the fact that he bounced back really well after being sent down and having the club try to change his swing is a big positive in his favor. Everybody needs to chill and realize how good he is at a really young age.

He’s basically already what 26 year old Eloy Jimenez is right now. I think something like Justin Upton is a really reasonable scenario for him. Another guy who came up very early and they have similar bodies (just add like inches and proportional weight for walker) and swings.

Last edited 3 years ago by CC AFC
sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  CC AFC

Justin Upton is a really interesting comp for a lot of prospects and young players because he was one of the most obvious standout corner outfielders who had all the tools but settled in as “just” a TTO-type player than all-world destroyer like Lance Berkman or Vlad Guerrero Sr or even JD Drew (he was really good!). But there are a lot more guys like Upton now than Lance Berkman.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  CC AFC

I don’t think anyone’s worried about the bat…but Upton was a good defensive RF until his late-20s, and was still passable for a few years after that.

CC AFCMember since 2016
3 years ago

I hear a lot of complaints about his offense, but defense is clearly the biggest question. I don’t think it’s fair to judge Walker’s outfield ability yet because the Cards just threw him out there with almost no experience at the same time they were asking him to jump two levels to the majors. Maybe he’s a horrible defensive outfielder, maybe he gets to average or passable if he actually gets a fair chance to learn the position. Worst case, he moves to 1B or DH and he’s probably a really good offensive player with upside for more.

OtterMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  TribeToTheEnd

Walker could age poorly on this list, but I’d rather Walker at 21 and in the majors with some success being on this list than 25yo Jung/Steer.

TribeToTheEndMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  Otter

Agreed with this. I think where I am landing is that I’d rather have had Walker at 20 in the minors but with a high likelihood of some future major league success on this list vs the Jung / Steer equivalents.

Lanidrac
3 years ago
Reply to  TribeToTheEnd

Sorry, but I much prefer the 21-year-old version of Walker with a near 100% likelihood of Major League success and still a very high ceiling of future success.

JSJohnSmithAnon
3 years ago
Reply to  TribeToTheEnd

Like Betts playing better and dropping 26+ spots, there’s a lot on this list that doesn’t make sense.

Lanidrac
3 years ago
Reply to  TribeToTheEnd

Last year, Walker was in AA. This year, he’s already established himself as a good Major League hitter. Why wouldn’t he have more value this year now that the risk of him becoming a bust is almost zero?

Last edited 3 years ago by Lanidrac
LesVegetables
3 years ago

I realize trade values are hard, and it would be super lame to just list prospects as the most valuable players in baseball, but I am pretty confident that if any of the top ~10 prospects in baseball who aren’t listed here were to be traded for Mullins, Nootbar, Hayes or Steer, most if not every writer on this site would say it was a terrible move to sell the prospect.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  LesVegetables

That probably depends who you classify as the top 10 prospects in baseball right now. A whole bunch of these guys are in the majors now. Of the guys that are left, I wouldn’t trade Holliday, Wood, Caminero, Chourio or Painter for those guys (even with Painter’s injury) but after that the top prospects are…Jackson Merrill? Druw Jones? Adael Amador? Marcelo Mayer? Brooks Lee? Pete Crow-Armstrong? Evan Carter? I think you can have a debate about trading them for Mullions or Nootbaar (not Hayes or Steer, those guys don’t belong on the honorable mentions much less on this list).

GoodEnoughForMeMember since 2024
3 years ago
Reply to  LesVegetables

I think this gets at how we can value things differently when we have the luxury of not being on the chopping block daily. We can dream on a prospect going supernova in 4-5 years, a GM has no guarantee they’ll be around in 4-5 years. To many GMs a 2-3 win player now vs a potential 5 win player in 4 years is significant job security, especially as long as you’re anywhere around like, 80+ wins with expanded playoffs these days, and maybe you trust your dev people enough to get more juice out of those kinds of high floor players anyways or use platoons and the like to maximize value (LAD has been great at this among others, I really think the 95th percentile of pretty much anyone good enough to be drafted is at least 5-6 wins, loud tools or not).

Last edited 3 years ago by GoodEnoughForMe
Jasper FranciscoMember since 2017
3 years ago
Reply to  LesVegetables

We tend to overvalue prospects in general. No. 15 on the Fangraphs list has a 55 FV, which is “Above-average regular, 2.5 to 3.3 WAR”. That’s Lars Nootbaar.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago

That’s below Lars Nootbar!

Lanidrac
3 years ago

And that’s only an average projection for the prospects, whereas Nootbaar has already proven his value. Those prospects could still be complete busts for all we know.

3cardmontyMember since 2025
3 years ago
Reply to  LesVegetables

You’re describing the Gabriel Moreno for Dalton Varsho trade, and the writers on this site did not, in fact, say that the Jays had been hosed. Correctly so, it was a fair deal.

Lanidrac
3 years ago
Reply to  LesVegetables

If the buyer is a contending team, it could very well be considered a decent move.

Last edited 3 years ago by Lanidrac
TheUncool
2 years ago
Reply to  Lanidrac

A contending team in the thick of a race would want a guy that will reliably stay on field going forward though… and Nootbar is not quite that (to put it somewhat mildly).

Sonic
3 years ago

Lars Nootbaar? lol

OTMHeartBBCMember since 2025
3 years ago

Lars nutbar over Adolis Garcia et al? lmaooo

PC1970Member since 2024
3 years ago

OK..Now, I think Riley Greene should be on the list.

He is performing similar/better than Nootbar (depending on how much of Greene’s performance you think is sustainable), has 1 more year of service time remaining, which will probably cost less than $1M, AND is 3 years younger, so you’re buying the better end of the aging curve.

He is also hitting better than Steer this year & has much more defensive value & is 3 years younger.

I won’t even get into Hayes, Walker, etc because their issues have been discussed ad nauseum.

Last edited 3 years ago by PC1970
OtterMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  PC1970

The case against Greene is pretty simple: .417 BABIP and nearly 30% K rate

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  Otter

Hitting line drives nearly 30% of the time and never popping up is a pretty good way to have a high BABIP.

OtterMember since 2016
3 years ago

Of course, but he isn’t going to run that hot over 2,000 PA. What does he look like if he’s ‘only’ running a .330 BABIP and the strike outs remain? His ISO isn’t eye popping either. He reminds me of pre-2022 Moncada, which is a very nice player who even made this list at least once, but once the BABIP drops he becomes a glove only guy.

FrancoeursteinMember since 2025
3 years ago
Reply to  Otter

He is 22. I almost guarantee he will improve his K% over time. I think he’s super talented and capable of settling in as a 25% K guy with a high BABIP

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  Otter

Presumably, when his BABIP numbers regress to his batted ball indicators (to ~.350) his ISO numbers will regress as well.

And if they do regress to what he “deserves,” he’ll be running a ~.200 ISO.

MRDXolMember since 2021
3 years ago
Reply to  Otter

I don’t think it is reasonable to assume the same thing will happen to Greene. 2019 Moncada had an avg exit velo of 93.1 MPH, 5th-highest in the league. He was also a lefty and considerably faster than anyone else, mostly hulking sluggers, on the EV list: in short, it was not just BABIP luck, there was real BABIP skill there.

2022 and 23 Moncada is under 89mph exit velo, because his chronic back issues have totally sapped his explosive rotational ability. It’s not BABIP luck drying up.

amaass2Member since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  PC1970

His Cardinals fandom is starting to shine through more than in the past. I’d wager he answers an inordinate amount of Cardinals questions in his chat than years before. Perhaps he is getting more questions about them than before given the season they are having and the nature of their lineup (bad pitching, glut of young offensive talent). Buuuuut I’d wager, even then, it is showing through more than he realizes. I just hope he’s doing well! I’m sure his job is exhausting – I wouldn’t be cut out for it.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  amaass2

Ben Clemens is not putting Lars Nootbar that high because he liked the Cardinals, he’s putting Lars Nootbar that high because he’s a good player getting paid league minimum. There are a lot of comments here fixating on Nootbaar when it actually makes perfect sense where he is on the list.

Smiling PolitelyMember since 2018
3 years ago

These are fun exercises and you’re always going to disagree somewhere, but I’m trying to understand Ben’s logic preferring James Wood, with an “Adam Dunn” like profile (limiting defensive upside), to a *lot* of other current MLers and better prospects. Is it *that* hard to find tall, corner OF/DH types who mash in the minors? And if you’re willing to dream on De La Cruz or even still on Hayes at this point, why not Holliday there? (also curious where someone like Henry Davis or Diego Cartaya might end up on this list…)

Uncle SpikeMember since 2020
3 years ago

No way Davis or Cartaya are on the list. But I agree, Wood over Holliday is a head scratcher for me.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
3 years ago

Wood’s able to handle CF right now – it’s not a given that he fills out of the Aaron Judge “Goldilocks Zone.”

Stanton was also a great RF, when he was young.

…but give me Holliday over Wood.

Last edited 3 years ago by Cool Lester Smooth
sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago

I don’t think he’s going to be as good as Aaron Judge, because that would be almost impossible. But if you want to dream on a prospect, it’s absolutely James Wood. You don’t get guys who have a real chance to both stick in center field and hit the ball at 120 MPH very often (or ever). The upside of a guy like that looks a lot like, I don’t know, if 2021 Ohtani quit pitching and played center field instead.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I think the upside of a guy like that is just called “Aaron Judge,” haha.

His career RAA in CF is positive!

Last edited 3 years ago by Cool Lester Smooth
sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago

He’s not gonna be Aaron Judge. Not even in Mike Rizzo’s dreams.

Smiling PolitelyMember since 2018
3 years ago

(ugh, sorry, meant Cruz, not De La Cruz, who obviously IS real)

Thomas
3 years ago

Love this list every year and I appreciate the work that goes into it.

In my estimation, I wouldn’t trade Patrick Bailey for any of these players. Even assuming his bat regresses I think it would be a bad deal to trade him for Hayes or Cruz. Having a year and change off between Poseys has maybe led me to overvalue generational defensive catchers, but that’s just how I feel now!

elcommish
3 years ago

Having a pretty tough time understanding the inclusions of Wood, Hayes, Steer and Nootbaar over someone like Riley Greene. Greene has one fewer year of team control as Wood and, if his 3 year ZiPS projections on the team page are anywhere near current, would lap the field in 5 year WAR. Greene has more WAR this year in 53 games than Steer has in 91! And plays centerfield. And is 3 years younger.

HowBoutDemOsMember since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  elcommish

Spencer Steer on this list is just some really crazy stuff. There are at least 10 players, maybe like 30, who you’d take sooner. And I always feel bad making these points because Spencer Steer is a good, fun, young player with plenty of value. But the Reds themselves would cackle all the way to the bank if the Tigers offered them Riley Greene straight up for Spencer Steer.

gettwobrute79Member since 2026
3 years ago

Maybe the Pirates should flip Hayes and Cruz positionally.

downbaddav
3 years ago
Reply to  gettwobrute79

i’ve been thinking this, but too scared to bring it up

bobody
3 years ago

Valuations differ wildly from team to team, and the very best prospects generally get traded for stars, not as the highlight of the deal in their own right.”

Doesn’t this imply the very best prospects have similar trade value to stars? The Reds would trade Steer for Holliday in an instant – so would any other team.

cwood41
3 years ago

Sorry, but it is incomprehensible that you think KeBryan Hayes would fetch more in a trade than JACKSON HOLLIDAY. Kind of invalidates a whole lot of this list.

lavarnway
3 years ago

Yeah Freddie Freeman has way more trade value than all of these guys.

68FCMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  lavarnway

If the Dodgers decided they no longer wanted to be in the Freddie Freeman business and were going to just waive him, how many teams would claim him and take on his contract? That is basically the starting point and I’m really not sure there would be more than a handful. Probably the Brewers, Orioles, Twins, and Marlins. Maybe the Yankees, Giants, and Astros. Beyond that, I’m not sure. He was a free agent and nobody offered more than the contract he is on. A lot of teams just don’t have the budget space to take on another $27M for the next 4 years and the ones that do already have established first basemen that Freeman would be an improvement on, but probably not enough to justify the salary.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  68FC

The Yankees and Giants would absolutely put in a waiver claim on him, although I’m not sure about the Astros state of mind right now with Crane seemingly more involved.

But I think there are a lot of other teams too. The Padres would in an instant, and probably the Mets too. The Blue Jays and Rangers would at least consider it.

I don’t think many of those teams would give up good prospects for him, but if all it costs is money I think about 10-12 teams would be in on him.

68FCMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I was thinking CBT considerations might slow a couple teams down, but I can never keep track of who is resetting or is a repeat offender. The general point is only about a 3rd of the league is even in play at all which limits the potential for a bidding war.

diamonddores
3 years ago

Hayes is an adjustment away from being peak Donaldson? I think that’s about as true as saying the Rockies are a couple players away from being the class of the NL West

Dmjn53
3 years ago
Reply to  diamonddores

peak Donaldson had a 157 wRC+. Hayes is just a small adjustment away from a 75 point improvement

68FCMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  Dmjn53

As much as we laugh, that is basically what Donaldson, Justin Turner, and Jose Bautista all did and Hayes has a very similar profile. Hayes just has a longer track record in the bigs because the glove is so good he is worth playing even without the breakout. It’s not likely that he can take the step since we tend not to think about the dozens of guys with that profile who couldn’t make the adjustment, but he’s as good of a swing change candidate as there is.

What we just don’t know is why if he is so obvious a candidate it hasn’t happened yet. Is it because it just isn’t going to take for him or is it because he hasn’t gotten the right coaching yet because he’s on the Pirates who aren’t exactly on the cutting edge of this sort of thing.

FrancoeursteinMember since 2025
3 years ago
Reply to  diamonddores

Yea that line made me laugh. I think he’s an adjustment away from hitting like Joe Randa

jreyn24Member since 2025
3 years ago
Reply to  Francoeurstein

Pretty great comp actually

zstam
3 years ago
Reply to  diamonddores

Hey I mean in his 331-game career, he has 23 homers compared to 41 for 2015 Donaldson! He’s over half way there already!!

Last edited 3 years ago by zstam
68FCMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  diamonddores

Through his age 26 season (Hayes’ current season), Donaldson had a career 84 wRC+. At age 25 Donaldson had a 94 wRC+ in a full season in AAA. Donaldson made a swing change to improve his launch angle and took off. Hayes has 89th percentile avg exit velo with 77th percentile whiff rate. He’s a little behind peak Donaldson in exit velo, but he has the profile to have a similar breakout. With that contract, the a breakout would immediately turn him into one of the most valuable assets in baseball not unlike Jose Ramirez was on his last deal.

If the Dodgers or Rays were to trade for him, he would be a prime Donaldson/Yandy Diaz/Justin Turner type breakout pick. Of course, those teams trading for him would mean they think they know what the tweak to unlock the power is. If say the Rockies were to trade for him, then it would be for the player he is, not who he could be.

What that means for his trade value though is anyone’s guess.

diamonddores
3 years ago
Reply to  68FC

Fair enough. Hopefully it happens for Hayes like it did the players you mentioned

synco
3 years ago
Reply to  68FC

See that’s the thing. Pre-adjustment, Donaldson/Diaz/Turner weren’t worth much, because breakouts like that are rare.

Last edited 3 years ago by synco
Dmjn53
3 years ago
Reply to  synco

This. I’m not paying to dollar for a player that might be fixable. I’m paying top dollar for a player that doesn’t need to be fixed

Last edited 3 years ago by Dmjn53
OtterMember since 2016
3 years ago

I’m not sure why we’re listing players like Jung and Steer, who might actually be what they’re showing but likely aren’t, over pick your ‘fairly paid’ All-Star. If Jung’s BABIP falls to .290 with his K% and low walk rate, he isn’t sniffing this list, and I’d be pumping the breaks on Steer. I think we’re somehow underrating the stars of the game who got paid — not saying Mookie or Freeman (assuming he isn’t here) are top 25 guys, but somewhere in this back half is probably where they should be. It’s once thing if the above average player on a good/great contract is above Mookie, its another when we have a limited track record that might just be a lot of luck making an average player look good.

zstam
3 years ago
Reply to  Otter

Yeah like you can’t tell me perennial FIP leader Kevin Gausman has a lower trade value than Hayes or Nootbaar. Like, just because he has a big-ish contract (still a bargain for the pitcher he is), a team would value him lower than a slick-handed, well below-average hitting 3B? If anything, Gausman should be high up because of what a bargain his contract is.

Last edited 3 years ago by zstam
Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  zstam

Wait.

I didn’t even realize Gausman didn’t make the list.

He is a guy who “deserves” the gap between his FIP and ERA…and he’s STILL a borderline ace on $22m/year!

Last edited 3 years ago by Cool Lester Smooth
3cardmontyMember since 2025
3 years ago
Reply to  Otter

Think of it like this. The moment Freeman signed his contract, he had zero trade value, by definition. Any team would’ve just given him a larger contract rather than trade prospects for the contract the Dodgers gave him. Furthermore those contracts are always meant to have surplus value in the front half to cancel out negative value in the back half. Freeman is now a year older and his contract has one fewer surplus year and a larger percentage of negative value years than it did when he signed it a year ago. Given that, I fail to see why his trade value would have increased much beyond zero in the last year. Team needs and competitive positions may have changed so that another team would be willing to give up something to assume the whole contract, but not nearly enough to make him a top 50 asset.

kid
3 years ago

Every year I feel like I understand the TV series less and less. Spencer Steer? Ke’Bryan Hayes? I’m never getting there. Nootbar? Sorta get it, but he feels a lot like Trent Grisham, right? Wood’s inclusion is a good idea, as I personally would rather shoot shots on upside vs. baseline.

JSJohnSmithAnon
3 years ago
Reply to  kid

It’s definitely getting worse.

kingharbaughMember since 2021
3 years ago

Wow this looks a bit ridiculous after reading the honorable mentions intro. What is James Wood doing here? Why is Nootbar here over Greene? What’s Steer doing on this list at all? Hayes, too. What the hell.

kingharbaughMember since 2021
3 years ago
Reply to  kingharbaugh

How did Jordan Walker improve his rating? Even with the defensive move to DH, how can you stomach ranking a DH only this high? It seriously limits his upside and I doubt major league teams are going to line up to trade for someone so limited on that side of the ball.

Dmjn53
3 years ago

man I love Fangraphs, but for the life of me I cannot understand the continued obsession with Ke’Bryan Hayes

Last edited 3 years ago by Dmjn53
sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  Dmjn53

“Gretchen, stop trying to make Ke’Bryan Hayes happen, it is not going to happen!”

curt schillings ketchup bottle
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Jordan walker “If you’re a top 5 prospect….why are you a DH???”

kid
3 years ago
Reply to  Dmjn53

Thank you for saying this.

jreyn24Member since 2025
3 years ago
Reply to  Dmjn53

That’s Ke’Bryan “an adjustment away from peak Josh Donaldson” Hayes to you.

synco
3 years ago
Reply to  Dmjn53

#1 they love bloodlines, even though they bust as often as anyone, and it’s not like Charlie Hayes blew up the world.

#2 he was a first round pick, and those seem to be harder to give up on.

#3 that first month in 2020, inflated by a gigantic BABIP.

Hayes is Gordon Beckham and Brett Lawrie all over again – non-SS infielders and former first round picks who blew up in their first short sample and imprinted on the analysts as future stars, but never got the magic back again.

jreyn24Member since 2025
3 years ago
Reply to  synco

Calling Hayes Beckham and Lawrie is incredibly harsh. Defense matters.

Dmjn53
3 years ago
Reply to  jreyn24

Defense definitely matters, that’s why he’s not in the minor leagues

Brock244
3 years ago

The hard thing about making these lists is that is balancing present day production vs upside

Guys like Nootbar, Ryan, Steer obviously have real value but there’s not way I’m taking any of them over a prospect with real star upside. Like I’m not sure I would trade Jackson Holiday for TWO of them

Or put another way, If those guys were made available I wouldn’t want my team trading a top 20 prospect in baseball for

Example: the redsox wouldn’t trade Roman Anthony for these types of guys and I doubt he was considered

Last edited 3 years ago by Brock244
Dmjn53
3 years ago
Reply to  Brock244

what I can’t get past is that Steer’s present value is a 120 wRC+ DH. Is that really that valuable?

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to have Spencer Steer on my team. But there are 50+ players I’d rather have first

Uncle SpikeMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  Brock244

I would disagree with you there. As a Red Sox fan, I’m excited about Roman Anthony but there’s not really a strong track record of elite production. He’s on an insane heater right now, however, he’s likely to come crashing back down to earth. He had an .089 ISO for 202 ABs at A ball to start this year but has a .478 ISO in hist last 85 ABs at A+. If the Sox were going for it, I think they would gladly sell high and get a solid bat that can help them this year and be a good value for years to come.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  Uncle Spike

The modal FV50 prospect is more like Hunter Renfroe than Lars Nootbaar. By any objective standard, turning out like Lars Nootbaar would be an excellent outcome for Roman Anthony.

Brock244
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Sure, but it’s the upside. I think most teams would rather dream on a Franchise player than get a nice quality cheap player

Last edited 3 years ago by Brock244
sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  Brock244

This is where I think fans differ from the front office. Doing things like trading your 3.5 win corner outfielder who isn’t even to arbitration yet for a guy who has a 75% chance of being worse eventually gets you fired even if he has a 10% chance of being meaningfully better.

soddingjunkmailMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Couldn’t agree more. I’ve been avoiding wading in on this debate, but I’ve been pretty surprised at the tone in the comments section.

3.5 win players are immensely valuable. There were (runs and checks) 50 position players on the FG leaderboard for 2022 at 3.5 or above.

Less than 2 per team for crying out loud. And if they happen to be reasonably young and cheap? That’s GM catnip. And this doesn’t even begin to address the prospect attrition rate.

fanofthemanMember since 2020
3 years ago

Normally I feel like the comment sections are relatively in tune with the writers. Not perfect agreement but fairly close most of the time. When there’s a huge disparity, it always makes me wonder if what we’re seeing is a place where teams are behaving a way and the writers know (because of their contacts) but fans don’t. Sometimes I think the gap is because the fans are describing what they want FOs to do and the writers are describing what they think FOs will do

Brock244
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I can see that viewpoint and I guess it would depend on the FO, but I think a much preferred scenario is to just acquire a 2-2.5 win player for a much cheaper price and keep your high upside young guys

I think teams very rarely trade awesome position player prospects, and when they do it is usually for a very rare commodity like an elite arm

I just don’t like the idea of trading a haul for a non-star position player, and I think a lot of FO agree which is why it rarely happenes (Adam Eaton is the one that comes to mind)

Last edited 3 years ago by Brock244
Brock244
3 years ago
Reply to  Uncle Spike

It’s the underlying metrics on Anthony

The hard hit rates, lack of chase, and contact in the zone is awesome. This is why he was getting real buzz while not producing much in low A and what got him a promotion despite lackluster results

But a 19 year old doing what he’s doing as a CF with those under the hood metrics is insane.

I think he’s a top 20 guy right now (BP had #9) and Might have surpassed Mayer.

Last edited 3 years ago by Brock244
zstam
3 years ago

James Wood’s ranking has me confused in relation to some of the other guys on here. Wood is a top-5 prospect in the game (many people would say top-3), so naturally his trade value could be equal to another top-5 prospect. But is anyone going to give up a top-5 prospect for Hayes, Nootbaar, or Mullins? Certainly not. I think that point alone proves that prospects should be higher on this list.

OtterMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  zstam

After the 2016 season, the White Sox traded Adam Eaton to Washington for Lucas Giolito, Reynaldo Lopez, and Dane Dunning. Eaton was coming off a great WAR season because his glove when through the roof, but he was a 3.5-4 win player signed to a great deal. 2016 Eaton might be a bit better than Nootbaar and on par with Mullins (though not a CFer) and he fetched Giolito who not a top 5 prospect at the time, was a year prior and two upside arms.

I think people would be surprised what Nootbaar and Mullins would pull in a trade. Hayes is a bit different, but with his glove if he ever figures out to hit with a bit of power, you’re looking at a top 10 player.

zstam
3 years ago
Reply to  Otter

Eaton was coming off a 6.8 WAR season, so this isn’t a great comparison. And like you said yourself, he did not fetch a top-5 prospect. So I think my point still stands.

OtterMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  zstam

Washington was trading for future performance, not past, and Eaton’s nearly 7 WAR season was bolstered by his glove going nuts, not his bat (which remained above average). Heading into 2017 Fangraphs had Giolito at a FV of 60 and Lopez was 55.

kid
3 years ago

This Ke’Bryan Hayes mania has got to stop. Invoking “Peak Josh Donaldson” as within the range of outcomes is, frankly, disqualifying. I personally am always cautious about not going gaga over defense because a) the game is already heavily structured to prevent run production and b) individual defense can come and go. Maybe Hayes is a superlative defender, but he can’t hit; he can generate EV, but that sub 6-8% HR/FB rate over the past 3 seasons is alarming, and no hitting coach is going to be able to fix that. He doesn’t barrel the ball, and Savant doesn’t think he’s been unlucky. He has been lifting the ball more over time, but he must not be driving the ball in the air with authority; Savant pegs him for 5.7 xHR across 307 PA.

AzizalMember since 2017
3 years ago

So many complaints about Riley Greene not being on the list. Y’all do realize there are 40 more names coming right?

kingharbaughMember since 2021
3 years ago
Reply to  Azizal

It’s almost like he could have been included on the honorable mentions list that was released before this and linked at the top of this post?

amaass2Member since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  kingharbaugh

Tbf maybe Op didn’t realize that. But you are technically correct, the best kind of correct.

Uncle SpikeMember since 2020
3 years ago

Not to beat a dead horse here but, considering Jackson Chourio wasn’t listed in the HM section but someone like Jackson Merrill and Dylan Crews were, makes me think that Chourio will make the list, which is fine but I don’t know how you can square that. Chourio is a top 40 player but Holiday is just an HM? Doesn’t add up to me.

zstam
3 years ago
Reply to  Uncle Spike

Or maybe they aren’t listing him at all? Idk, either they are way down on him or they think he’s the #1 prospect in the game.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  zstam

I am assuming he is not going to be on this list at all. It’s super exciting that a no doubt center fielder who turned 19 a few months ago has an almost league average batting line at AA but it would be very hard to imagine him 10 spots higher than James Wood.

OtterMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  Uncle Spike

Holiday being a HM makes total sense imo if a bit cautious. He has 3 games above high A. I get he’s having a great season (though I guess we’d want a bit more power if we’re nitpicking), but he’s so far from the majors at this moment. If he keeps this up in AA the rest of the year, we’re obviously having a much different conversation around Labor Day. But as of now, I don’t think it’s so huge injustice.

si.or.noMember since 2017
3 years ago

Come for the list, stay for the comments

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
3 years ago

I tend to look at this exercise from the opposite direction. I would be very willing to take a chance on a vaunted young prospect, Holliday is a perfect example, and trade a proven major leaguer who is valuable, even a star, for him. Is Holliday worth an Arenado? The answer, responding in a New York minute, is yes. My favorite example of this comes from 1975 when the Yankees sent their #1 starter, Doc Medich, just 26, who had won 49 games in the 3 previous seasons to the Pirates for a smallish, 21 year old, 2nd baseman who had hit .164 during his first cup of coffee in the show. Willie Randolph went on to be an integral cog for the Yankee over a stretch that included two World Series titles while amassing a 65.9.bWAR. I can’t see many GM’s trading a top starter for an unproven minor leaguer, but they should. Player value and how to maximize that evaluation is at the cornerstone of a successful franchise and I relate this, quite closely, to the Braves approach of locking up young players they believe in before the price becomes prohibitive. The Braves acumen is multiplied many times over when these other teams are forced into questionable long term contracts for players already beginning their slide.

OtterMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

The flip side would be if the Guardians traded Bieber for MacKenzie Gore or Joey Bart or Royce Lewis or Jo Adell after the 2020 season.

I have no clue how the Braves get all these guys to take below market deals — seems like nearly every other player/agent on other teams don’t get sweet heart deals like Atlanta.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  Otter

It’s because the Braves extend these kids with life-changing money before they hit arbitration.

Acuna signed for $100k.

Albies signed for $350k.

Harris signed for $550k.

Dansby didn’t sign one of their sweetheart deals, because he got $6.5m out of college as the first overall pick.

fanofthemanMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

And I think that is the hard part of the exercise: FanGraphs commenters are WAY less averse to taking risks on prospects than even the biggest gamblers among the GMs. GMs generally try not to get fired. Fans try to get excited and dream of exciting trades and exciting outcomes.

I’m not saying GMs are right, but I do find the difference between commenters and FOs a fun subplot to follow.

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  fanoftheman

You are on the right track with your comment. As a group i find the GMs to be more, read only, interested in protecting their glutes than taking a risk on a young player. The Braves have embarrassed almost every other team in their ability to recognize talent and jump at the opportunity to give these young players financial security while, most certainly, limiting the maximum money that a few of them would make. It only works because the Braves aren’t giving that money to Jo Adell, Spencer Torkelson, Yoan Moncada and………. ad infinitum. When I see Bloom trade Renfroe, a useful player in Fenway, for the corpse of JBJ, a very modest prospect in Hamilton and a complete stiff in Binelas, I wonder if he can recognize talent. I know Alex Anthopoulos can.

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

It wouldn’t be complete if I didn’t mention that I also believe Alex Anthopoulos to be a warlock. How else can anyone explain the fact that he signed the starting NL All-Star SS for pocket change and let somebody else pick up the gazillion dollar price tag on the previous SS. That’s 3 for 7.3 against 7 for 177. He might be able to use that money in other ways. More realistically, I think it is time to say that he knows baseball as well as, more likely better than, anybody else in the game.

Last edited 3 years ago by bosoxforlife
Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
3 years ago

To me a 2 WAR season more than 2 years from now isn’t worth much. It should more like the greater of discounted value of projected WAR and option pricing. Yes a 2-3 WAR season in 2023 and 2024 is valuable enough, but beyond that it should be more about the odds of a 4 WAR season or more. The Holliday for Hayes comments seem right.

Moreover a 5 WAR season in 2023-4 at full retail price would still be worth more than a 2 WAR season at a discount. For example I doubt the Dodgers would trade Betts or Freeman for Lars Nootbar, surplus value or not, and they shouldn’t.

richielampsMember since 2022
3 years ago

The Arraez undervaluing has gone too far Ben!!! He still has 2.5 years of control and he’s a top 10 offensive producer in baseball! For pretty cheap!

And enough with the K. Hayes love. It’s over. He’s not a star or even close. Fine he’s a great defender, he’s 26.5 years old and has never put up a wRC+ over 90! His value isn’t close to the other guys on this list and I’m guessing that’s what insiders told you too.

Either way, thanks for the list, it’s a great read!

TribeToTheEndMember since 2016
3 years ago

First off, thanks for putting this list together. Seems like a ton of work and obviously has created great discussion already.

A feature that I’d love and could imagine going over very well with Fangraphs members would be a ‘keep trade cut’ style ranking system that aggregated the “wisdom” of the crowds by allowing them to iteratively choose between Player A and B (maybe sourced from a group of the top 100 or so). I think it would be super interesting to see how a crowdsourced list compares to the list created by the FG staff and industry experts.

amaass2Member since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  TribeToTheEnd

100% agreed! I was a bit critical in my other comments with my perception that his Cardinals fandom is showing through buuuuuut still this is phenomenal work!

amaass2Member since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  TribeToTheEnd

Awesome idea!

FrancoeursteinMember since 2025
3 years ago

Y’all are gonna feel really stupid when Ke’Bryan turns into Brooks Robinson!

bada87bingMember since 2020
3 years ago

Admittedly I have zero inside info here, but I’d be pretty surprised if there was a *single* team that had Steer valued over Riley Greene.

pdunes
3 years ago

In previous years, I’d maybe be doing the Alonzo Mourning face gif reading these but not now.

Would you rather have Jackson Holliday or Oneil Cruz? I’d bet the Pirates would do that trade straight up for a younger, healthier, and more more talented future shortstop and might toss a player in to make it happen.

Oneil has warts. They’re ones that people have raised in the past and unless he can come back and show that he can overcome them, then there’s no way he has more value than the shiny new thing that everyone’s dreaming on.

Mitchell MooreMember since 2020
3 years ago

If one could meld Steer and Hayes into one player, call him Stayes, then you’d have yourself a top 50 TV guy. But a defensively challenged 25 year old corners only man and/or a slick fielding 3B only guy who hits like a second division shortstop? Please.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  Mitchell Moore

To be fair a guy with Steer’s bat and Hayes’s glove and either of their contracts would be one of the top players in baseball. But also, you could create all sorts of Frankenstein-players with this approach and it would be better. Like, Ezequiel Tovar and Kerry Carpenter would be a six win player.

Uncle SpikeMember since 2020
3 years ago

It’s interesting to see who’s smarter, the crowd or Fangraphs. Looking back at last years comments, the consensus was that Ben overrated Arozarena, Carlson and Crownenworth. Score one for Ben for Arozarena but two points for the crowd. The other two players that caused a lot of debate were Michael Harris and Ke’Bryan Hayes. I got to give props to TKDC who fought hard for Harris but was getting downvoted into oblivion, by myself included. Harris has slowed down a bit but still proved he was worthy to be much more than an HM. The debate over Hayes seems to still be much the same but I think the anti-Hayes’ers have the edge at the moment.

kid
3 years ago
Reply to  Uncle Spike

Was just thinking about this. I was with the Crowd on all three, and obviously Randy has been quite good, the other two have been – as the kids say – “Mid”. What has fueled Randy’s outbreak? Well, he went from an 8% barrel rate to a 15% rate, and if you foresaw that… good on you! However – Randy has settled down a bit from April, though his “X” stats still remain quite strong.

Last edited 3 years ago by kid
sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  Uncle Spike

Harris was basically brand new at that point. He’s going to be good (probably more for his defense than his offense) but it was totally reasonable, maybe more than reasonable, to not go out on a limb for him at that point.

amaass2Member since 2019
3 years ago

Ben is hands down my favorite writer here but I can’t shake the feeling he has let his fandom for the Cardinals shine through more this year (particularly thinking back to a chat in April where he was a bit stressed out but took a majority of Cardinals questions). I really don’t see how Lars Nootbaar made the top 50 while Justin Steele was an HM.

Idk, I love Ben so much and I thoroughly get excited with each of his articles. Just an observation I’ve had. Am I alone here in thinking this?

amaass2Member since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  amaass2

Maybe I’m going overboard, idk. I don’t like being negative on the internet. He really is doing an incredible job and I’m just a reader/fan.

Alas I can’t delete my above comment so I guess my gut reaction will live on.

amaass2Member since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  amaass2

I apologized to Ben on Twitter about the above comment and he was super cool about it! What a BOSS.

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  amaass2

He does have a thing about Lars Nootbaar but debates across the bar are a huge part of the appeal of baseball since I was 21. We are here to debate his opinions, which I value highly, but disagree with so far in this series. As far as Ben being my favorite writer, with which I concur, I plan my Mondays carefully to be comfortably seated, with a cool beverage at hand, so that when 2:00 EDT comes I am ready for an hour of top level baseball chat.

MRDXolMember since 2021
3 years ago

This is… confusing. There are several players on the HM list I would prefer over most if not all of these ten.

Wood is an excellent prospect. I don’t see how he ranks higher than Jackson Holliday in value. Justin Steele has been better and healthier than Hunter Greene, and is gonna be much cheaper despite one less year of control (Greene’s 2029 club option). Arguably he’s also a better bet for future health *because* he doesn’t throw a billion mph.

Riley Greene is absolutely more valuable than Walker or Steer: bat projects similarly but he’s much more defensively capable. I like Mullins a lot, but I have no idea how it can be construed that 1.5 years of him is worth more than 3.5 years of Jonah Heim or William Contreras.

I don’t see why Steele is not here but Ryan is. Same team control, but Steele is better this year and was better with more inning last year.

Last edited 3 years ago by MRDXol
Pachoo9Member since 2021
3 years ago

Yeah, agree. The two names who look out of place to me in the top 50 are Nootbar and Steer (because of his lack of defensive home). Think Holliday should easily make the list over both those guys.

GoodEnoughForMeMember since 2024
3 years ago

I’m sure it’s done with confidentiality in mind, but I know FG has a lot of team contacts they reach out to each year when they do this series, and somehow getting to see those team opinions would be absolutely fascinating, especially for controversial players.

slz
3 years ago

I feel like all 10 of these guys are “squint and you can see it” types but the reason you’re squinting is because they’re all flawed in one way or another.

This is your Eye of the Beholder extended HMs, essentially. I think I’d rather have Adolis Garcia as my bet on a bat (think I’ve seen Lars Nootbaar called a “3.5 win OF” ten times in these comments – Garcia is already over 3.5 wins this year!) before any of these guys, but he’d be in my 40-50 range regardless.

I’m not an Oneil Cruz or KeBrayan guy and I’m also not really a Riley Greene guy although I get the arguments with him. I might be a Patrick Bailey guy if someone can convince me he’ll stay above the mendoza line once the regression kicks in (the defense is legit and I think the pop is too) but those caveats are exactly why I can understand people being just as unsure about him as I am about the Pirates left infield.

bbtm8
3 years ago

I wish someone loved me as much as Ben irrationally loves Ke’Bryan Hayes. And I’m a Pirates fan.

curt schillings ketchup bottle
3 years ago

Ain’t nobody trying to trade a premium prospect for Lars nootbar, kebryan Hayes, or even Cedric mullins