2026 Trade Value: Nos. 31-40

As is tradition at FanGraphs, we’re using the lead-up to the trade deadline to take stock of the top 50 players in baseball by trade value. For a more detailed introduction to this year’s exercise, as well as a look at the players who fell just short of the top 50, be sure to read the Introduction and Honorable Mentions piece, which can be found in the widget above.
For those of you who have been reading the Trade Value Series the last few seasons, the format should look familiar. For every player, you’ll see a table with the player’s projected five-year WAR from 2027-2031, courtesy of Dan Szymborski’s ZiPS projections. The table will also include the player’s guaranteed money (exclusive of any signing bonus), if any, the year through which their team has contractual control of them, last year’s rank (if applicable), and then projections, contract status, and age for each individual season through 2031 (assuming the player is under contract or team control for those seasons, or has a player or vesting option). Last year’s rank includes a link to the relevant 2025 post. Thanks are due to Sean Dolinar for his technical wizardry. At the bottom of the page, there is a grid showing all of the players who have been ranked up to this point.
One note on the rankings: Particularly at the bottom of the list, there isn’t a lot of room between the players. The ordinal rankings clearly matter, and we put them there for a reason, but there isn’t much of a gap between, say, the 40th-ranked player and the guy who would have been 58th if the list went that deep. The magnitude of the differences in this part of the list is quite small. Several of the folks I talked to might prefer a player in the Honorable Mentions section to one on the back end of the list, or vice versa. I think the broad strokes are correct, and this is my opinion of the best order, but with so many players carrying roughly equivalent value, disagreements abounded. I’ll note places where I disagreed meaningfully with the people I spoke with in calibrating this list, and I’ll also note players whose value was the subject of disagreement among my contacts. As I mentioned in the Introduction and Honorable Mentions piece, I’ll also indicate tier breaks between players where appropriate, both in their capsules and in the table at the end of the piece.
With that out of the way, let’s get to the next batch of players.
| Five-Year WAR | 18.2 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2029 |
| Previous Rank | #43 |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2027 | 26 | 3.7 | ARB 2 |
| 2028 | 27 | 3.7 | ARB 3 |
| 2029 | 28 | 3.7 | ARB 4 |
Opinions on Neto’s defense are all over the place, but I don’t think anyone is quite as pessimistic as the FRV numbers that power our WAR calculations. I personally think he’s somewhere near an average shortstop defender, but as I mentioned last year in my blurb on Neto and as I heard again this year, I’m lower than industry consensus on him. I think that he’d probably be in the mid-30s on an aggregate list of their preferences. As one person put it, Neto plays a premium defensive position and he can hit. Short of a truly transcendent defender, the league would prefer Neto types to glove-first options, and though I’m generally biased in the same direction, I wanted to note that team preferences exceed mine here, both as it pertains to Neto specifically and to bat-first players at tough defensive positions more generally.
A final note on this tier of players: For me, there’s a fairly bright line separating everyone I’ve ranked so far and the next 39 players on the list. I had a lot of the first 11 guys on and off the list at various points in its construction. I’m not confident that my order would look the same now as when I finalized that section over the weekend. I think that many of the gaps between these 11 players and the best honorable mentions are a matter of personal preference, and I want to emphasize that I’m hardly infallible. But the guys who are coming up next? They were always in my top 50. No one I talked to said “Him? Really?” about any of them. If I were running a team, there’s no shot I’d trade anyone we’ve already listed for anyone ranked 39th or better, with the possible exception of prospects where the non-public data is meaningfully different than what I’ve seen, or maybe a healthy Roman Anthony. Keep that in mind as we proceed.
| Five-Year WAR | 11.8 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2032 |
| Previous Rank | – |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2027 | 22 | 2.0 | PRE-ARB |
| 2028 | 23 | 2.2 | PRE-ARB |
| 2029 | 24 | 2.4 | PRE-ARB |
| 2030 | 25 | 2.6 | ARB 1 |
| 2031 | 26 | 2.6 | ARB 2 |
Without turning this capsule into too much of a scouting report, I love Anderson’s arsenal. He’s fastball-dominant, and despite sitting 92-94 mph, he misses a comical number of bats thanks to good shape, good deception, and good command. He has a wide array of plus secondaries and can throw them all for strikes, with his changeup being my favorite. It’s reasonable to project continued improvement, because he turned 22 less than a month ago and was only drafted last summer. But even if he’s already pretty close to fully formed, that might be okay; like I said, the floor here is very high.
On a different team, one without six proven big league starters, Anderson would probably already be in the majors. He’ll probably be in the majors soon anyway, even if it’s in a multi-inning relief role; the Mariners are chasing a playoff spot and he’s one of their best players. And after this year’s prospect valuation update helped me estimate the expected value of top minor leaguers, I’m more open to putting the very best minor leaguers on this list. I’ll explain more about that in the next blurb, but let’s put it this way: I think that Anderson is one of the best young pitchers in baseball, and you can’t really beat his combination of age and team control. Even after a discount for the fact that he hasn’t done it in the majors yet – the similarly-aged pitchers already excelling in the major leagues will appear higher up, obviously – he belongs here.
| Five-Year WAR | 9.6 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2032 |
| Previous Rank | HM |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2027 | 20 | 1.1 | PRE-ARB |
| 2028 | 21 | 1.6 | PRE-ARB |
| 2029 | 22 | 2.0 | PRE-ARB |
| 2030 | 23 | 2.3 | ARB 1 |
| 2031 | 24 | 2.5 | ARB 2 |
I’m in agreement with the industry consensus that Made isn’t in the same rarefied air as Konnor Griffin, who was a clear 70-FV prospect for us. But as I mentioned in the Anderson blurb, this area of the list is consistent with the value teams can expect to garner from prospects of this caliber, even after discounting for the fact that you probably won’t get a ton of this-year (or even next-year) value out of Made.
This is a good place to mention how I see the difference between my personal valuation of prospects and the aggregate preferences of the team personnel I talked to. I’m right on top of the consensus when it comes to where the top two prospects in this year’s class should slot into a list of trade value, but there was wide disagreement about where the gaggle of other top prospects would fit in. I think that at least a couple of the people I talked to would have most of the 41-50 area populated by prospects and recent graduates, for example. There isn’t a huge gap between Made and Franklin Arias, just to pick the guy I most seriously considered for a similar placement. I think it would be entirely reasonable to slot Arias somewhere between 40th and 50th on the list, but at the same time, no one was telling me that it was silly to leave him off it. At the risk of repeating myself, my point is this: I really think that Made is the best prospect in baseball right now. I think that a lot of the players who aren’t far behind him are extremely good trade values, too. Don’t get too caught up in parsing the precise order of the guys below this spot; this is just a good benchmark for the value of this year’s best minor leaguers.
| Five-Year WAR | 21.4 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2029 |
| Previous Rank | #42 |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2027 | 25 | 4.2 | ARB 1 |
| 2028 | 26 | 4.4 | ARB 2 |
| 2029 | 27 | 4.5 | ARB 3 |
I’ve always thought of Langford as a patient hitter, but in 2026, he’s attacking earlier in counts, which has pushed his walk and strikeout rates down in concert. His power production is up, which I think comes down to finding pitches to hit early in the count more often. The ZiPS forecasts you see aren’t just the model being in love with him; I think that they’re pretty close to industry consensus here. I’m a little worried about Langford’s swing speed declining somewhat since he was a prospect, but with the emphasis on “a little.” The underlying data on his offensive production still looks very good to me, and I expect him to walk more while keeping his strikeouts down for the remainder of the year.
I see Langford as a bat I’d be happy to play at DH, but three-plus years of that wouldn’t be enough to crack this list. It’s the defensive value that puts him over the top. Even if he’s more of a good corner outfielder than a true center fielder, that’s a lot more value than a DH-only type. He opens up roster flexibility, and when you can play a cleanup hitter in center some of the time, your lineup is going to look a lot more fearsome. Next year will be his first year of arbitration. In fact, I kept looking for ways to move Langford up the list. But in the end, the intermittent injury issues (he’s never played a 600-plate appearance season) and the fact that a lot of the players ahead of him have even more team control led me to put him here.
| Five-Year WAR | 16.3 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | $61.0M |
| Team Control Through | 2034 |
| Previous Rank | HM |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2027 | 22 | 2.5 | $1.0M |
| 2028 | 23 | 2.9 | $1.0M |
| 2029 | 24 | 3.4 | $4.0M |
| 2030 | 25 | 3.7 | $7.0M |
| 2031 | 26 | 3.8 | $11.0M |
Still, Basallo’s offense is the real draw. He has awe-inspiring raw power and cranks huge home runs to all fields. He’s not some min-maxed, Isaac Paredes-style home run hitter; he just swings so explosively that the ball can’t help but go out when he catches it flush. That gives him massive upside, and given that he’s a 21-year-old already delivering an above-average offensive line in the big leagues while catching, upside from here is very valuable indeed.
But as befits such a tough evaluation, Basallo’s offense isn’t all sunshine and rainbows. He chases far too much, with a sixth-percentile chase rate, and his big swing comes with a 15.5% swinging strike rate. His contact rate is well below league average, too. He’s probably always going to strike out a lot. That’s fine if he’s a catcher with 40-homer power, but if he ends up being a part-time catcher or moves away from the position entirely in the next few years, he’ll need to cut down on the chase one way or another to unlock more offensive upside.
Finally, Basallo’s contract is really good from a team perspective. It’s eight years at roughly $8.5 million per, and there’s even a team option for a ninth year. That’s a ton of team control, though as I discussed in the introduction to this series, team control for catchers is less valuable than it immediately sounds because it’s so hard for catchers to maintain a high level of skill and availability simultaneously. I ended up focusing more on the immediate future and treating the later years of his deal as bonus upside as a result. I wouldn’t fault you for having him higher on your own list, depending on how you personally feel about catcher value. I would fault you for having him ranked lower than 40th, though; I think the talent and the team control are just too enticing.
| Five-Year WAR | 13.2 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2031 |
| Previous Rank | – |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2027 | 26 | 2.7 | PRE-ARB |
| 2028 | 27 | 2.7 | PRE-ARB |
| 2029 | 28 | 2.7 | ARB 1 |
| 2030 | 29 | 2.6 | ARB 2 |
| 2031 | 30 | 2.5 | ARB 3 |
Okay, Messick! He’s my kind of pitcher, a sneaky-good athlete who Brendan Gawlowski compared to a pitching version of Alejandro Kirk. He uses that athleticism to good effect; he doesn’t throw particularly hard, but he has a deceptive delivery that he repeats well, and his fastball plays way up from its velocity thanks to good shape and the aforementioned deception. He commands it all around the zone and also throws two other fastballs, as well as a changeup, a curveball, and a slider, which lets him mix and match, hunting righties with platoon-optimized offerings, while still befuddling lefties with a horizontal sinker/slider attack.
You’ll probably hear “crafty” used to describe Messick, but that undersells it for me. He’s just good at pitching. He varies his pitch mix based on what’s working in a given game, has the range to attack different hitters differently, and makes good adjustments on the fly. It’s not always easy to tell which pitchers have this skill before they’ve faced big league competition – it’s a Potter Stewart situation for sure – but Messick has it, and I’d argue that if you disagree with me on that particular note, you just haven’t watched him pitch enough.
The knocks here are that his lack of elite stuff puts a ceiling on his value, and that he’s never going to be a huge strikeout guy. But I can live with that given that he’s going to be around for forever, and for a pittance salary-wise. In fact, I flirted with having him higher on the list. But then, the next two pitchers are pretty dang good, too.
| Five-Year WAR | 15.0 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2031 |
| Previous Rank | – |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2027 | 27 | 3.2 | PRE-ARB |
| 2028 | 28 | 3.2 | PRE-ARB |
| 2029 | 29 | 3.1 | ARB 1 |
| 2030 | 30 | 2.9 | ARB 2 |
| 2031 | 31 | 2.7 | ARB 3 |
Ashcraft’s signature skill is his ability to induce bad swings. He spams his slider against righties and they simply can’t handle it; they’re chasing 40% of his sliders outside the zone and making contact at an abysmal rate regardless of where he locates it. It’s a hard, borderline-cutter shape, low-90s velo with a bit of backspin, and while it’s serviceable against lefties, it’s particularly great against righties. He backs that with a mid-80s curveball with two-plane movement, a pitch that our two models think is one of the best hooks in the game.
I’m not enamored with the shape of his four-seamer and think it’s a below-average pitch overall, which is a great reminder that starters sitting 96-98 mph aren’t all that uncommon anymore. But it’s serviceable, and against righties, he mixes in a sinker that I like a lot more. I think that Ashcraft is always going to have stretches where he gives up too many homers, but both of his breaking balls are really good, so I can live with it.
The years of control matter here, too, of course. Five more years of Ashcraft gives him room to struggle with injuries and ineffectiveness for part of that time and still rack up meaningful value. That combination of long-term value and short-term utility – he’d look right at home as Pittsburgh’s number two starter if the Pirates eke into the playoffs – means that I’d even be comfortable sliding him up the list if I were a team in desperate need of cost-controlled pitching. He isn’t a sure thing, but the value here is meaningful even if you’re not as enamored with Ashcraft’s recent form as I am.
| Five-Year WAR | 12.4 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2031 |
| Previous Rank | – |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2027 | 24 | 2.3 | PRE-ARB |
| 2028 | 25 | 2.4 | PRE-ARB |
| 2029 | 26 | 2.5 | ARB 1 |
| 2030 | 27 | 2.6 | ARB 2 |
| 2031 | 28 | 2.6 | ARB 3 |
It all comes down to how you feel about huge pitchers who get a ton of utility out of their fastballs. If you’re up for an inexact comparison, I get Josh Hader vibes from Tolle: long stride, low release point, and a fastball that has more north/south movement than you’d expect from that arm slot. That fastball is doing a lot of heavy lifting; the only other pitches he throws even 10% of the time are a sinker and a cutter that you might reasonably call a gyro slider.
As you might expect, Tolle gives up a ton of elevated contact, and he’s always going to be a little bit homer-prone as a result. But clearly, it’s been working so far. There’s not a lot of complexity to his approach, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing; if you have two pitches good enough to throw more or less all the time, there’s not much pressure to develop more options. In the long run, I expect Tolle to need to branch out to maintain his effectiveness, and that’s why I ended up slotting him here instead of with the group that you’ll see tomorrow.
This wasn’t a universally held view. One person I talked to would have had Tolle below the two names I’ve just listed. Another had him way higher, as a bet on a pitcher with an 80 fastball figuring out more stuff to do to complement it. I’m happy with where I ranked him, but I do think it’s slightly below the average value the industry has on him. Starters who are already good and will be around for a long time are really valuable.
| Five-Year WAR | 16.7 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | $83.0M |
| Team Control Through | 2030 |
| Previous Rank | #9 |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2027 | 30 | 4.5 | $12.0M |
| 2028 | 31 | 3.9 | $23.0M |
| 2029 | 32 | 3.4 | $23.0M |
| 2030 | 33 | 2.7 | $23.0M |
| 2031 | 34 | 2.2 | $20.0M |
Some of that is due to injury — he missed a month with an oblique strain, and it’s pretty clear that he was trying to play through the pain before he hit the IL. Some of it is poor batted ball luck – his contact quality has declined, but not by nearly as much as his results. Some of it is just reversion towards the mean – there’s no way Raleigh’s true talent is a 60-homer hitter, because that’s just not how baseball works. But the fact remains that a year after he set career bests in pretty much everything, including playing time, he’s on track to set career worsts in pretty much everything, and that happens far too frequently with catchers for my liking.
I think it’s reasonable to expect more of the same streakiness in Raleigh’s future. That’s not a player-level evaluation; it’s about the position. Catching is just hard. Plenty of teams have leaned into having two serviceable catchers platoon in recent years, because these big workloads are just ruinous. I think a lot of teams simply don’t want to be in the one-tentpole-catcher business.
That’s the macro reason that I lowered catchers across the board, but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t want to trade for Raleigh. Just as I never thought he was going to repeat last year’s phenomenal season, I think he’s far better than he’s shown so far this year. His contract is quite reasonable, just over $20 million a year for five more years after this one. He’s a solid defender (I’m downgrading him from great due to a pattern of declining advanced metrics), and has enough raw power that I think he’ll be able to float to DH more frequently as he ages out of everyday catching duty. Raleigh is one of the best catchers in baseball, and he’s clearly a big asset to his team. Just because I’ve tinkered with how I think about that value doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. One team evaluator disagreed with me on the catcher issue, in fact, and would have this whole tier 10 spots or so higher.
| Five-Year WAR | 17.3 |
| Guaranteed Dollars | – |
| Team Control Through | 2030 |
| Previous Rank | #49 |
| Year | Age | Projected WAR | Contract Status |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2027 | 26 | 3.6 | PRE-ARB |
| 2028 | 27 | 3.7 | ARB 1 |
| 2029 | 28 | 3.6 | ARB 2 |
| 2030 | 29 | 3.3 | ARB 3 |
His carrying tool is great bat speed that he marries with a measured offensive approach. He’s direct to the ball, which keeps his contact rate high, and while I don’t think he’s Juan Soto out there by any means, the combination of plus contact, plus power, and an average eye means that he’s going to walk quite a bit, giving him an enviable offensive floor. In fact, I’d take Baldwin’s bat over Raleigh’s for any forward-looking time period, and I don’t mean that as a slight on Cal. I just think Baldwin is a very good hitter.
Defensively, he’s a work in progress. Statcast has him as one of the worst catchers when it comes to controlling baserunners, and that’s in line with our evaluation of him as a prospect. He’s average as a blocker and receiver, and I’m not questioning his ability to stick at the position, but he’s below the major league average defensively, because major league catchers are very good defenders as a group.
Still, even with the catcher devaluation and even with questions about his defense, Baldwin is an obviously great player. He hits well enough that the Braves DH him to get him more at-bats, and if he suddenly couldn’t catch, he’d certainly still hit well enough to be a big leaguer. As I mentioned in the introduction, I agree with the industry consensus that 1 WAR of hitting is worth more than 1 WAR of defense. Baldwin is young and under team control for roughly forever. I think it would be irresponsible to have him outside of the top 35, even with everything I’ve written about catchers. He’s just that good.
| Rank | Prev | Name | Team | Pos | 2027 | 2028 | 2029 | 2030 | 2031 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Elite Catchers | |||||||||
| 31 | 49 | Drake Baldwin | ATL | C | 3.6 PRE-ARB |
3.7 ARB 1 |
3.6 ARB 2 |
3.3 ARB 3 |
|
| 32 | 9 | Cal Raleigh | SEA | C | 4.5 $12.0M |
3.9 $23.0M |
3.4 $23.0M |
2.7 $23.0M |
2.2 $20.0M |
| Good Controllable Arms | |||||||||
| 33 | – | Payton Tolle | BOS | SP | 2.3 PRE-ARB |
2.4 PRE-ARB |
2.5 ARB 1 |
2.6 ARB 2 |
2.6 ARB 3 |
| 34 | – | Braxton Ashcraft | PIT | SP | 3.2 PRE-ARB |
3.2 PRE-ARB |
3.1 ARB 1 |
2.9 ARB 2 |
2.7 ARB 3 |
| 35 | – | Parker Messick | CLE | SP | 2.7 PRE-ARB |
2.7 PRE-ARB |
2.7 ARB 1 |
2.6 ARB 2 |
2.5 ARB 3 |
| Wait ‘Til You See Him Hit | |||||||||
| 36 | HM | Samuel Basallo | BAL | C | 2.5 $1.0M |
2.9 $1.0M |
3.4 $4.0M |
3.7 $7.0M |
3.8 $11.0M |
| 37 | 42 | Wyatt Langford | TEX | OF | 4.2 ARB 1 |
4.4 ARB 2 |
4.5 ARB 3 |
||
| Top Prospects | |||||||||
| 38 | HM | Jesús Made | MIL | SS | 1.1 PRE-ARB |
1.6 PRE-ARB |
2.0 PRE-ARB |
2.3 ARB 1 |
2.5 ARB 2 |
| 39 | – | Kade Anderson | SEA | SP | 2.0 PRE-ARB |
2.2 PRE-ARB |
2.4 PRE-ARB |
2.6 ARB 1 |
2.6 ARB 2 |
| Value Plays | |||||||||
| 40 | 43 | Zach Neto | LAA | SS | 3.7 ARB 2 |
3.7 ARB 3 |
3.7 ARB 4 |
||
| 41 | HM | Michael Harris II | ATL | CF | 4.0 $9.0M |
4.0 $10.0M |
4.1 $10.0M |
3.9 $12.0M |
3.5 $15.0M |
| 42 | – | Ben Rice | NYY | 1B | 3.2 PRE-ARB |
3.0 ARB 1 |
2.6 ARB 2 |
2.1 ARB 3 |
|
| 43 | 10 | Ronald Acuña Jr. | ATL | OF | 3.2 $17.0M |
3.0 $17.0M |
|||
| 44 | 20 | Riley Greene | DET | OF | 3.5 ARB 2 |
3.4 ARB 3 |
|||
| 45 | 47 | CJ Abrams | WAS | SS | 3.4 ARB 2 |
3.4 ARB 3 |
|||
| 46 | 22 | Hunter Brown | HOU | SP | 3.3 ARB 2 |
3.2 ARB 3 |
|||
| Tough Calls | |||||||||
| 47 | 31 | Ketel Marte | ARI | 2B | 4.2 $12.0M |
3.1 $20.0M |
2.5 $22.0M |
1.8 $22.0M |
1.2 $11.5M |
| 48 | – | Mason Miller | SDP | RP | 1.9 ARB 2 |
1.8 ARB 3 |
1.7 ARB 4 |
||
| 49 | 42 | Roman Anthony | BOS | OF | 2.8 $4.0M |
3.3 $8.0M |
3.4 $15.0M |
3.6 $19.0M |
3.6 $23.0M |
| 50 | 15 | Fernando Tatis Jr. | SDP | OF | 4.0 $25.0M |
3.7 $25.0M |
3.3 $36.0M |
2.8 $36.0M |
2.4 $36.0M |
Ben is a writer at FanGraphs. He can be found on Bluesky @benclemens.
A Jesus Made for Cal Raleigh trade would be weird
But fair, apparently!
I guess people inside baseball must really love Zach Neto if they wanted him higher than this. I see a second or third baseman with enough offense for either spot, which doesn’t really move the needle for me. But if his sources are insistent then I don’t blame Ben for putting him on there.
I know Ben says that the spots from the HM all the way up to Neto are interchangeable but I would definitely rather have Otto Lopez over him, and controllable role player sounds right for Neto. And I think Lopez and Neto are both 110 wRC+ types of guys except Lopez is a much better defender. I think I would switch them.
Neto’s got one of the biggest FRV/DRS gaps out there – B-Ref has him down for 13 WAR over the last three years.
If teams generally have him as a solid-average SS, he’s Jeremy Pena with two extra years of team control.
I don’t think teams are relying on DRS or anything like it. I think they’re relying on the eye test as well as the scouting reports from a couple of years ago.
Not that relying on DRS makes sense either when OAA is out there. DRS gives straight up implausible numbers for defensive value because they’re trying to estimate something without inputs that are fine-grained enough to do it. There’s a ton of error in there (even more so than OAA).
And I think that Ben’s FO contacts are likely to be using a home brew defensive model, supplemented with recent reports from their pro scouts.
OAA is dramatically worse than DRS at evaluating the defensive value of infielders because it just looks at how many balls you get to. Look at Luis Arraez, who OAA ranks as the second best second baseman in the majors this season after an entire career of being a terrible fielder, all because the Giants have positioned him more deeply to reach more balls this season. DRS, on the other hand, says that he’s the same guy he’s always been.
With OAA, handling a 110 mph one hopper right at you is worth substantially less than an 85 mph routine grounder four steps to your right because OAA does not account for exit velocity.
If I’m not mistaken, Statcast does somewhat take EV into account by using an intercept point for ground balls,
Taylor Walls getting consistent playing time for a team that’s as analytically forward as the Rays despite bad Statcast fielding metrics and awful hitting really does make me question FRV/OAA for infield defense, along with the Arraez example you gave. The article on Arraez’ defense that was published a few months ago did nothing to convince me he’s improved as a defender, and though DRS can come up with some extreme numbers that probably go (sometimes way) overboard, it can line up better with how orgs are acting
Yeah, when the Dodgers are at +150 DRS but only +10 FRV going back to 2023 (with a -0.17 ERA/FIP over that stretch) it’s hard to imagine that FRV is doing a better job capturing their defensive performance.
The Rays (-0.17 ERA/FIP gap) are another pretty smart team where their +89 DRS since 2023 far outpaces their -50 FRV over that same stretch.
My hunch is that defensive juggernauts like the Brewers (+160 DRS vs +105 FRV with a -0.39 ERA/FIP gap), Cubs (+168 DRS vs +109 FRV with a -0.27 ERA/FIP gap), Guardians (+124 DRS vs +86 FRV with a -0.27 ERA/FIP gap), and Blue Jays (+249 DRS vs +129 FRV with a -0.11 ERA/FIP gap) all have internal model spitting out results much closer to their DRS totals than their lower FRV numbers.
We have no idea what the teams are actually using. I don’t even know how you would find that out aside from visiting each of their offices.
And at the team level there really isn’t a huge difference. The Blue Jays and Cubs are the two best in both metrics, Cleveland is also doing very well in both. The White Sox and A’s are really bad. This makes a lot of sense, because what happened in the play itself isn’t that much in doubt. It’s about partitioning it between different players.
The DRS numbers are just generally more extreme, which is part of the problem I have with it. DRS this year ranges from -42 to +62, and FRV goes from -28 to +43. That’s a huge difference in scale, and I have big concerns about how it gets folded into WAR because of that.
But the ordinal rankings aren’t too different.
Where there are differences between team-level performances and how well they correspond with ERA gaps are likely due to three things:
1) Differences in how they model positioning. This is probably most of it, and almost certainly why the Dodgers team level defense is so much more impressive than what the individuals do.
2) Whether there are things that FIP isn’t capturing well. Some FIP-ERA differences are due to pitching from the stretch (how much is debatable). There are also some teams that seem to be much better at finding pitchers who can exert some limited control over batted ball outcomes. I’m convinced Yamamoto is one of those pitchers, for example. And I don’t think FIP captures pop-ups and other near-certain outcomes, but they get folded into fWAR anyway.
3) Catcher defense: DRS doesn’t use framing at all IIRC, and how we measure framing is highly disputed anyway.
I’m a dyed-in-the-wool Tango guy to the point that I talk incessantly about Ryan Howard’s RE24 and Derek Jeter’s RoE…while running a living spreadsheet of (RA9WAR-FRV/10), because fWAR thinks the outcome of a 120 foot pop fly can only be explained by the same random variation that causes a pitcher to have less velocity from the stretch than the windup and the Royals to have better defensive performances when Zack Greinke defends the pitcher position.
Which is why I don’t treat FRV as the last word on true talent!
To an extent, sure, as there are a few balls that you can reach at 85 mph that you wouldn’t get to at 100+ mph. The problem is that OAA isn’t accounting for exit velocity at all on balls that the defender can reach. That’s why Angels infielders have a much worse OAA when Reid Detmers is pitching than when Jose Soriano is pitching. Detmers allows much harder contact and at higher angles which make those balls much more difficult to field even when they are within range.
OAA for infielders is pretty bad at estimating defensive value and should not be used at all. I’m not saying that DRS is perfect, but it is substantially better than OAA for infielders. OAA for outfielders is quite good.
I’m going to need a refresher on what DRS is using as its data source, because saying that DRS has more inputs is not necessarily a good thing. Historically DRS has tried to calculate things at a super granular level that they couldn’t accurately measure, so it had a bit of a garbage in – garbage out problem. It was better than nothing but there was a lot of error in the data itself relative to what they were trying to do.
Maybe they’ve switched to something more reliable now, but it’s not always better to put more into a model if they can’t get accurate readings of it (or if it’s confounded by something else).
My understanding is that DRS uses historical data to look for similar batted balls and their results.
OAA for infielders is so bad that I ignore it completely. I don’t think it has any value at all.
Yeah but what I am curious about is how they know where the ball landed. The actual data. The granularity only works if the data is accurate.
I know historically they coded it by hand, but I can’t find anything that explains where it comes from lately and it seems like they should have some computer readings now. But how much, I don’t know.
This won’t fully answer your question, but this relatively recent blog from Tom Tango goes a bit into OAA and DRS for infielders and outfielders: https://tangotiger.com/index.php/site/comments/frv-v-drs
My understanding has always been that there is somewhat more granularity in DRS as opposed to OAA. That is a bad thing in the case of the outfield, where plays are more or less “see ball, catch ball” so accurate batted ball data is really all you need, but it might help in the case of the infield where is seems the Statcast model has some oddities to it.
Yeah Tango’s research suggests that there is huge inconsistency in the outfield for DRS from year to year. Which doesn’t inherently mean it is wrong but it is a huge red flag.
Infield is pretty even by the same measure, maybe slightly tilted towards DRS.
The main problem with DRS for a long time is that they had broken down the geography of the field into zones at a granular level but they literally couldn’t code it to that level of accuracy. In theory computer measurements would help with that, but I am not sure what the actual data is that they are using now. It might be the same hand coded stuff, it might be computer inputs, it might be a mix.
Their data actually might be proprietary and they might not want to share exactly what it is because they sell stuff to teams. Whatever they do to it / wherever it comes from might be a selling point, might not want to give that part away.
That’s what I really want to know. Can they actually do all of these things they say they are doing? The track record is pretty mixed, and you can come up with some weird numbers if you are assuming a level of precision you don’t have.
That…is LITERALLY the opposite of how OAA, haha.
Factoring in positioning and EV serve as its key differentiators from DRS!
The specific issue with using OAA to evaluate true talent is that it only tells us how a player performed relative to an average player in that field position, given the same ball placement and velocity!
The model’s parameters mean it cannot account for a player being better at fielding Ball X hit at Speed Y at Angle Z from coordinate (A,B) than from coordinate (C,D).
DRS did not factor in pre-pitch positioning before 2020, but since then it has.
OAA does not and never has included any direct measurement of exit velocity. A 110 mph one hopper straight to the shortstop and an 80 mph grounder straight to the shortstop have the same value.
Similarly, positioning only matters in OAA for how far the player had to travel to reach the intercept point. The Giants playing Luis Arraez much deeper than he played for the Padres or Marlins has allowed him to reach more balls and accrue a substantially higher OAA this season, which erroneously credits him as the second best defensive second baseman.
So, the thing is…that’s flatly untrue.
From the first article on OAA:
So…yeah. The one-hopper would be measured as a much easier play, with runner speed constant, because it arrived at the intercept point more quickly.
Arraez is apparently really good at playing from where Wash has placed him.
That doesn’t mean he’d be good from anywhere else…but it also doesn’t mean that OAA is giving incorrect outputs.
It is absolutely true. The reason that Angels infielders since 2023 have a 20 point gap in OAA with Jose Soriano pitching versus with Reid Detmers pitching is that Reid Detmers allows significantly harder contact. They’re the same infielders playing in the same positions.
DRS says that he’s the same fielder he’s always been. So which is more likely, that OAA has accurately captured someone improving from one of the worst fielders in baseball to being the second best fielding second baseman this season, or that OAA’s measurement is flawed?
OAA is probably superior to DRS for outfielders and catchers these days, but DRS might still be slightly better for infielders.
I’m old enough to remember DRS thinking Brett Lawrie was a historically great 3B, because TOR was an early adopter of the shift.
The difference isn’t slight. Any system that ranks Luis Arraez and Jazz Chisholm as great fielders is deeply flawed. OAA is pretty much worthless for infielders.
Curious how Ben/team personnel/everyone views bat-tracking metrics in regards to Neto. Firmly below-average in both bat speed and squared-up/swing, but above-average in pull air%.
His x-stats are not great right now and I am concerned about that. But they were pretty good last year. I think teams are willing to dismiss that because he has provided roughly the same offensive contribution for two and a half consecutive years now.
Exactly this.
Teams believe in the 115…and think he’d be aa +5 SS for any actual org.
Neto has got to be the most polarizing player on here. If you step back and just look at the raw output w his control, it makes sense. This is a 3-4 war player w 3.5 years of control
That said, it doesnt feel right. His pulled flyballs mask a lot of underlying offensive issues and his defense isn’t even slam dunk at ss, either. Kind of a weird profile. I would not want to trade big assets for him, but can see the appeal.
Neto’s great, but I’ll take Perdomo over him all day, every day.
Alright, I think I’ll follow up to the concern about DRS vs FRV like this:
I don’t think it affects his placement on the list. Because I suspect that a lot of teams do not value the actual defense of a player.
As long as they can stand there long enough without totally embarrassing the team, they don’t mind. They think that defensive ability is hard to quantify so as long as a guy is out there and hitting it’s fine. If this is true, then it is probably also why teams don’t pay as much for defensive WAR.
I think this whole argument about defensive metrics kind of misses the point, because I really don’t think Ben’s sources are using DRS as a guidepost. They see that he’s tied for 30th in homers and he plays shortstop and his OBP is not embarrassing, and that he is still lining up at shortstop every day. And that is enough.
I think that this is wrong. Maybe not for the Dodgers or Yankees because they are building a team for the playoffs anyway, and for that you need guys who can strike out a ton of batters. If you’re willing to spend an enormous amount of money on a whole rotation of elite starters that’s probably best. But in the regular season you can get really far with elite defenders because it doesn’t matter quite as much who the pitcher is, and it’s resistant to your pitchers all coming down with injuries (which is basically what always happens).
I do not think this is how teams view this even a little bit.
Since getting a unified data source for positioning and ball placement in 2021, Tango’s calculations think you should weight FRV/DRS at 60/40 for infielders…which would make Neto a +2 SS.
That’s a 2 WAR swing since the start of 2024, turning him into a 4.4 WAR/650 guy.
there isn’t a huge gap between made and franklin arias, the only difference is that arias is a better hitter and fielder
We’re two articles in and the Red Sox fans are already insufferable
Technically it has been three
Ah, you’re right. I should be commending their restraint!
So far the only player who I have seen on the list who I would definitely have put in the Top 30 is Ben Rice.
I do think Michael Harris II and Rafaela belong together though, probably somewhere in that 27-35 range.
I think the trade value for the controllable young starters would be enormous and I probably would have put them all 10 spots higher. I do think it is interesting that Yesavage is not part of this group. Maybe he and Harrison and Jump and Meyer belong in another tier below them, but I don’t see a terribly big gap between Messick and those four.
I really don’t think Bryan Woo should be above that group either and I am guessing he probably is in that group tomorrow. Maybe with McLean?
Just a big old jumbled mess of pitchers with a ton of team control. I think the volume of it is making it hard to understand how valuable they are. If you take out Yesavage (who is underperforming) that’s 8 pitchers I just mentioned, and that group plus Skenes, Miz, Burns, Schlittler make up close to half of the top 25 starters in baseball right now. And they’re making nothing.
Harris is running hot right now and will probably not maintain his production from the first half, but even with a decline baked in he’s still got a good bit of clearance ahead of Rafaela imo
I have Rafaela as a special defender and Harris as just a “good CF” (a fairly high bar, to be fair, – think Harrison Bader) which gives me a clear preference regardless if Harris’ very hot and cold offense can run a little hotter at times
Rafaela is also quite a bit cheaper, which isn’t a huge deal since Harris’s deal is also very team friendly. But that kind of tips it in Rafaela’s favor IMO.
Yeah, I think I had 5 pitchers in my top 25- Miz, Schlitter, McClean, Burns..& Sanchez, who’s extension is about 1/3 of what he would get if he was a FA.
In fact, I think I have Sanchez as the 2nd highest rated pitcher because he feels more stable to me than some of the young guys for the next 3-4 years.
Not being critical. I chuckled at the misspelling on McLean. Made me think of Mr. Clean.
Ha! I knew that looked wrong somehow.
Maybe he is Mr. Clean..clean pitching line, that is.
It’s just tough to judge because some of them are going to regress out of consideration, others will prove they shouldve been 20 spots higher and then at least half (if not all) are going to get hurt
Like, is Parker Messick Andrew Abbott or Cris Sanchez? Who knows? We might not even find out – he could blow out in his next start
It’s hard to know because pitchers with this much team control on a rookie scale deal and this level of performance do not usually get traded. Teams are extremely reluctant to give guys like this up. And it’s gotten to the point now where you can’t assume that anyone will trade you pitching prospects because so many of them get hurt you never want any of them to leave.
It’s wild to me that Harris is actually 6 months younger than Rafaela, but that he has over 800 more MLB PAs. I sometimes forget how young Harris was when he debuted.
Anyway, I agree they are extremely similar. Both good (Harris) to great (Rafaela) CF defenders with a lot of volatility because they basically never walk, ever, and have merely decent (Rafaela) to good (Harris) power. Byron Buxton is the elite version of this archetype. Until the spike in walk rate this year, I lumped PCA in with these guys too.
Both Harris and Rafaela have the same amount of team control left if we count the team options, although Harris is a fair bit more expensive. But Harris has also been a notably superior hitter (109 wRC+ career vs. 91 for Rafaela), so maybe you value those extra years of control more for Harris as these guys crest 30 and the defense starts to slip. I wouldn’t have this much daylight between these guys.
Personally really enjoying both trade value lists so far featuring Braves as the cover photo
Maybe Chris Sale will be #21 to make it three in a row.
As a Braves fan, as much as I love Sale, if we were to just lose one guy moving forward, I think I’d rather keep Baldwin, Harris, maybe Acuña and even maybe Olson.
It is nice that his deal is very low risk, but he’s still an aging pitcher. Let’s ignore his long injury history and just judge him as a tall, 37-year-old pitcher who throws very hard. He’s gotta have the highest injury risk on this list. Yes, he’s easily an ace and the money risk is low since 2028 is an option year, but you still face a very decent chance of him being a nonentity then, probably even more-so than Acuña, who definitely has equal or greater upside.
I’d say definitely to keeping Olson. Paying $22 mill/year, which doesn’t break the top 50, for a top 2-3 1b in the league who plays almost every single game every damn year is a steal.
He’s never missed a game for the Braves. I doubt it ends that way, but he currently holds the record.
Yeah, according to the trade value list Olson is similar in value to Skubal.
Yet, I couldn’t see Atlanta doing that trade..even if Detroit through in Torkelson to “replace” Olson.
& my gut says Detroit would do the mythical Skubal (or Skubal/Tork) for Olson trade in a heartbeat.
There are a ton of players I wouldn’t trade for Raleigh at this point. Soon to be 30 year old catcher with declining defense.
My personal trade value rankings would be more skewed toward current performance for players on long-term deals. I think a lot of the value of pre-arb or arb players is that they can be released if the bottom falls out. I would much much rather have Baldwin (among others).
And a big contract.
I agree. Age is just such a big factor here. So many playoffs drop off even in their early 30s, and I especially don’t think catchers age well offensively.
I have a hard time believing MLB teams would value Zach Neto over Ben Rice
Really sounds like Ben’s sources all think he’s closer to DRS than FRV…so it’s a solid defensive SS who’s put up a 115 wRC+ from 23-25 vs a fringey defensive 1B who’s put up a 130 wRC+ from 25-27.
How much do you value Rice’s age-31 season?
I think you may be overestimating the ability of MLB teams to make good decisions.
MLB teams have spent a huge amount of time doing due diligence and they know more than me. I know this.
And then Ben’s sources keep insisting that Zach Neto needs to be higher on the list.
And that’s when I realize that group of Ben’s sources are definitely not thinking through this at all. Probably relying heavily on the eye test at shortstop and not paying much attention to his xBA of .203.
I definitely buy that teams would value Zach Neto over Ben Rice. Mostly because Ben tells me so, but that doesn’t mean they are correct to do so.
Conversely…they may have an xwOBA model that factors in batted ball direction and even more granular fielding data indicating that his true talent is closer to the DRS number.
My wariness of appeals to authority also extends to assuming Tom and Mike’s model is perfect and disregarding the 1.7 WAR/650 swing using DRS would create.
I don’t doubt they are using more of everything but that is not always a good thing! Historically they have modeled stuff that they couldn’t measure at the level needed.
That’s what their pro scouting department is for – there’s exactly zero chance these teams are using 2022 MiLB scouting reports to make valuation decisions on MLB players.
After all, the Angels can’t trade for Neto!
An interesting consequence of this list now being based on actual trade value from the real teams rather than trying to nail the players’ abstract value as it “should” be is that the guys with higher-variance value across different teams are going to end up higher on the list. In fact all it should take in principle is one team valuing the guy that highly, no matter whether they’re “correct” or not.
This can and should lead to some weird results! In fact I think it’s arguable that the list should be diverging more from the “correct” mean-regressed estimate of the players’ value.
Yeah, I think it’s market rate that “guy who was a shortstop, even nominally, with issues” is valued heavily. Just they shouldnt be
Something like half of all albatross contracts in the league right now are guys who played SS in their 20s
Of course, nor does it mean you’re correct in your continued insistence that Ben Rice should be like #4 or something.
Hey more like #25!
I could see him on this section of the list too.
That said, I definitely agree with you that Ben is just too down on Rice. He has the fifth highest xwOBA over the last two years, and he’s hitting for a lot of power this year (fourth in xHR, I believe). This is not some smoke and mirrors stuff.
I would put Nick Kurtz ahead of Rice, but I have very little reason to think that there’s a big difference in their future performance. Same years of control. Same position. About the same number of PAs in the majors, so similar sample sizes. Rice has a slightly higher xwOBA but Kurtz has a slightly higher wRC+ over the last two years. ZiPS RoS projection has Rice with a 142 wRC+ and Kurtz at 137, while Steamer has it 141 to 130 in favor of Kurtz. These guys are really similar and I don’t think league perception has caught up to Rice’s performance.
The big difference between the two is age – Kurtz is 23 and Rice is 27. They are very close now, but I would bet on Kurtz having a bit more development ahead of him.
wRC+ peaks at 22 but stays roughly level until 27, then starts declining very slightly until 30, after which it declines significantly. Neither Kurtz nor Rice are likely to change very much from their current level before they reach the end of team control after 2030. Kurtz has maintained his elite performance over a larger sample, so he should be ranked more highly, but Rice at #42 is too low.
The main concern with age at that level is injury, but IIRC Kurtz’s medicals were a thing before.
(I would also put Kurtz first but I just don’t think there’s a big gap)
So you’re saying this is PCA’s true talent level?
Cal Raleigh is such a wild card. Catcher heading into his 30s, dealing with injuries, having a terrible year at the plate, owed 4 years/$80 mil. Most teams would want him but I’m not sure how much they’d give up to roll the dice on him.
Cal is worth so much more to the Mariners than to any other team, that it’s hard to imagine any trade working out. If the M’s are trading him, they’re probably peeling back to the studs to rebuild from the ground up. Including the front office.
Yeah, the exercise is tough because Raleigh is a pretty distressed asset right now.
Time for the fun to try to determine who the top 30 will be!
By my count there are 19 returners who will be on the list
1 ohtani
2 witt
3 skenes
4 carroll
5 wood
6 elly
7 gunnar
8 judge
9 merrill
10 j rod
11 PCA
12 C Sanchez
13 Chourio
14 Caminero
15 Yordan
16 Woo
17 Mis
18 Yamamoto
19 Rafaela
Which leaves 11 more spots. I think eight locks are Dingler, Wetherholt, McGonigle, McLean, Kurtz, Schlittler, Griffin and Burns. So who are the last 3, any guesses? Maybe Turang or Pages? C Mongomery?
Definitely Turang, Ben has said so in chats. The other two also seem pretty close to locks, or at least guys who would absolutely have had to be honorable mentions if they weren’t on the list.
Guessing Turang is above Gunnar and the other one above Turang must be Griffin (it would be a pretty big shove for Montgomery). Unless I’ve spaced on a name.
I agree Gunnar is probably still pretty high, but I strongly disagree with that. There’s not a ton separating him from Acuna right now for me.
Wait what are you disagreeing with? I said Gunnar would be the second-lowest of this group, above Montgomery only.
…I guess Montgomery is probably the one off the list if Sale is on. A little hard for me to have Montgomery decisively below Jacob Wilson and Zach Neto, but maybe the thought is that Montgomery’s performance is less likely to be sustained because he scuffled at AAA.
I would put Gunnar just ahead of Acuna. He’s probably better than this, but the team control has dwindled down a lot so you get fewer shots at him going nova.
Gunnar is having a very poor season by his standards, but I’m encouraged by the fact that his contact rates have been stable. He’s just chasing a lot more out of the zone for some reason. He’s still reaching 150+ games every season while playing slightly below average defense at shortstop.
Think I’d rather have Gunnar off the list than Top 30. We’re at the point where 2024 was a clear outlier, he probably should move to 3B, he’s ever closer to free agency and by all accounts he is gonna want an insane contract so there’s no “if we trade for him we can extend him” bonus factor
…But then you see Zach Neto ranked 40th and welp
Is Sale on it? Turang and Pages would seem like locks to me. Sale in top 30 seems high to me but not even a HM seems crazy (despite my earlier comment).
I’m not getting all the talk of Sale here. He’s 37 with significant injury history and with 1 more control year at $27 million plus a $30 million option. This just doesn’t seem to fit Ben’s parameters well at all.
Explain Wheeler as HM and Sale as nothing?
1 year and 2 months of age. That matters a lot when you’re a 37 year old baseball player.
I can buy that there is increased risk for each additional year of age, but is it really that much and how does it compare to $23+ million in extra compensation through 2027 and also the risk-free team option for Sale 2028 at $30 million?
If it weren’t for Wheeler’s TOS I could definitely buy it but he’s also old and has big injury concerns (though, again, I think for all currently healthy pitchers, being older is more of a risk than your previous injuries).
Just seems like 14 months is doing a whole hell of a lot of lifting, but I also think top-30 is crazy. I would have thought he was a fringe top-50 but not listing him at all is wild.
Yeah the starters who’ve pitched to under 2.50 ERA under the last two years are (min. 100 innings):
Ohtani (on the list)
Sale
Skubal (last year of control)
Schlittler (on the list)
Wheeler (one-plus year of control, almost half again as expensive as Sale)
It’s hard to get pitchers of that quality and Sale isn’t that expensive. And the flip side of the short control is that if he breaks completely the financial commitment isn’t ruinous.
MisiorowskiNvm, missed that he was there already. I think you nailed it
Wow you got all 30 IMO. Nice. Going to be a lot of guys making their debut in the top 15! (McGonigle, Kurtz, Wetherholt, maybe Griffin and maybe Burns)
Maybe I’m just splitting hairs here, but I would definitely not trade Ben Rice or Ronald Acuna for Zach Neto. I get SS is valuable, but give me the guy with MVP potential or the guy with a 164 wRC+ and five years of team control any day
Moreover on Rice: he has a higher career xwOBA than Nick Kurtz, who’s going to be ranked 10+ spots above him. I don’t really get it
I freaking love Ben Rice – we’ve at most 2 degrees of separation.
Kurtz is four years younger and his career wRC+ is 30 points higher.
That’s dragged down by his improbable .186 BABIP in 2024 while barreling 15.6% of his contact that season. Since the start of 2025, Kurtz has a 14 point advantage in wRC+, which is still significant but less dramatic. Age isn’t extremely relevant since neither should decline much before the end of their team control after 2030.
I have no problem with where Kurtz will be ranked, I just think Rice should be substantially higher than #42.
I was absolutely convinced Kurtz was an overdraft by the A’s.
Boy was I wrong.
(SS isnt valuable)
The Brewers have 63 wins with a combo of Joey Ortiz and Cooper Pratt at the position. The Dodgers are playing a mid 30s right fielder there. The Rays have Taylor Walls playing the spot because they committed to a child molester. The Yankees have gone on deep Playoff runs with Anthony Volpe.
The SS positional adjustment is the largest category error in baseball right now
Wait, so we’re using (team having success without an awesome SS) as some sort of proof that SS isn’t valuable?
Good lord.
What I’d argue is an even bigger category error is fWAR’s DH adjustment, but that might just be me…
“You don’t need a shortstop if you can take other team’s busts and make them into players” does seem a little strong for my taste.
A +5 positional adjustment seems totally reasonable to me.
Yep – THT told us that the total gap positional adjustments should be like half the magnitude a decade ago, by doing the same math as Tango and Lichtman with a much better dataset.
Now we’ve a decade of FRV – run the math again and make the damn change!
The Dodgers are playing an easy future first ballot hall of famer there. The one year the Yankees had Volpe and even made it past the ALDS was the only year his WAR (3.5) was above average. But more than anything, and I can’t believe I have to say this, baseball is a team sport.
Your framing is worse than Logan O’Hoppe.
Not sure if I understand. At age 21, Cooper Pratt has a xwOBA of .354 and is a plus defender (super small sample, of course). He’d be on pace for 4-5 WAR.
Even without the xStats, he’s been an Aybar zone guy through 100 PA.
I could not disagree more about Kade Anderson having good fastball command, as the lack of fastball command is precisely why I think he’s overrated. Every start I have watched of him with Arkansas has featured consistent misses with his fastball up in the zone and/or to the first base side. That’s obviously much better than missing over the heart of the plate, but I do think his walk rate in the major leagues will be dramatically higher than it has been in the minors.
To me, Ryan Sloan is a full grade higher than Kade Anderson as a prospect, as his stuff is better and his command is better.
You guys have to understand what he’s doing with the prospects at this point. Yeah, in the past, I also got annoyed when he had James Wood on the list instead of Jackson Holliday (it turned out I was wrong and Ben was right) but it’s just a representation of “here’s where this year’s top prospects are” – he has a Pitcher and a Position player, so they’re both looking good right now, and they’re around 40, so that’s also pretty good. You can insert whatever eye of the beholder guy you want (Arias instead of Made, i.e.) instead of the actual names chosen
He’s not putting default top pitching prospect at #39, he’s relaying his specific opinion on Kade Anderson. I’m giving some pushback on that based on my own experience with prospect analysis. I don’t mind people doubting my opinion or even downvoting it, but I’m confident that I will end up being proven correct as I have been so many times in the past (Jackson Holliday is one of those prospects that I said was wildly overrated).
Eric had Seth Hernandez (#12) and Ryan Sloan (#19) ranked above Kade Anderson (#41), something I completely agree with.
I apologize on behalf of the commentariat for not being aware of your unassailable prospect evaluation skills, Random Guy on the Internet.
It’s funny that you assume the downvotes are for your opinions, not how you express them.
Look up the article on this website titled Evaluating the 2016 Prospects: Boston Red Sox and scroll down to the comments. Then look up the article on this website titled 2025 Top 100 Prospects and scroll down to the comments.
I most certainly won’t be doing that. But I’m glad you know exactly which article comments to cherrypick to make yourself look correct
I don’t need to cherry pick anything. I’ve been a paid prospect analyst for over twenty years and my track record is pretty impressive for a Random Guy on the Internet.
Langford certainly was too patient early on. He also led the league in % balls called strikes his rookie year (actual stat), I watched every at bat. But even then he often was often too patient and took a ton of called third strikes. This year he is being a lot more aggressive, so it clearly seems to be something he is doing intentionally. I think he still has another level to him at the plate, but if this is what he is, that is fine.
Not sure about the Messick/Ashcraft/Tolle placements. Maybe I’ve been burnt too many times with Strider, Schwellenbach, and even the Bobby Millers of the world. I think teams are low on all arms, so this is more a comment on how many pitchers should be in the top 50 (versus questioning those 3 specific pitchers).
The issue is you still need pitchers to win. You kind of just have to accept that theyre gonna get hurt
The irony of pitchers producing less WAR individually due to injury is that then their scarcity drives up their value.
It’s really hard to square the industry consensus on Zach Neto, some of the metrics and Statcast data, with how bad he’s looked on defense when I’ve watched this year, how non-competitive many of his at bats are, and how generally listless he looks sometimes. A lot of that is probably due to the Angels of it all. But this is why player evaluation is hard!
Outside the pitchers, this feels like a rough transition tier in the list.
Neto does nothing for me. He’s another in the line of “stand at shortstop, get gifted 2 WAR” guys, you’re not even getting that many years since he was basically ML ready out of college and his K-rate is headed towards reserve/out of the league territory as soon as he gets moved off SS
Raleigh is a fruitless exercise to rate this year but I’d probably have dropped him further. This season is *so* bad that you have to count it basically just as much as last season (he’s already down to .222/.331/.504 if you combine them – are they just gonna be his career average when it’s all said and done?), he also has K-rate/average issues and the cumulation of issues makes his 29 look an old one. The later mentioned Sean Murphy forebodes as an all-around elite comp who just fell off a cliff at the same age with some injuries as a contributing factor
The Basallo writeup makes him sound like Francisco Alvarez from three years ago. I was expecting more of a “yeah maybe he’s a DH but he’ll be a good one.”
Just a tough group. I like Wyatt Langford, at least. I believe in his defense quite a bit more than the author. Otherwise, I’d take Ben Rice over everyone here. Including Baldwin
I don’t necessarily agree with all of this, but I super agree with the Basallo/Alvarez comp. The only difference I see is Basallo is six inches taller.
Basallo just feels like Gen Z Gary Sanchez.
Basallo is a bit like Bryce Eldridge with a puncher’s chance of staying at catcher.
Eldridge is a lot further along now, but if you rewind even a couple months people were wondering if he was a bust. When guys with 80 raw start putting it together it comes together fast.
Jac is another guy like that. Carlos Gonzalez also fit that mold. Sort of kind of James Wood and Nick Kurtz too, although I think people were more confident they were going to hit.
Of course this could just be who he is, kind of along the lines of someone like Jesus Sanchez. That’s a real possibility too. That would play at catcher easily but not 1B/DH.
Sure, he *is* a lefty.
Basallo is superior to Alvarez in both rate of contact and quality of contact. If he ever cuts down on the chase, which admittedly is a massive caveat, then he’s going to be an elite hitter.
I might not take him over Baldwin, as Baldwin is also a very special bat and younger. But Rice I think is more of a true talent 135+ (I’d take over) than the 125-135 range they gave him. Even last year he got incredibly unlucky and still had a 133wRC+. I’d say he is in between what he is doing this year and what he did last year which makes him one of the best hitters in the game
I also have Rice as a 145 wRC+ guy…but Baldwin’s about as good behind the plate as Rice is at 1B.
Even using THT numbers, that’s a massive swing worth more than 15 points of wRC+.
Can someone help be reconcile Jesús Made as the best prospect in baseball with a projection even 3-4 years out that has him as a league average player? Is ZiPS just very conservative on him?
I’d think if he were a start in the making we’d been figuring 4 WAR seasons as a median with a chance to be MVP level. These projections aren’t even future all-star. Either the ranking or the projection is wrong, IMO.
I think he actually earned his way to AA (unlike some of these other super young guys pushed quickly) but his performance this year, even accounting for only being 19, should probably cause some break tapping. He’s very toolsy and the production had backed that up prior but it’s probably fair to see how it all falls before he is anointed just yet
His preseason prospect writeup mentioned a similar early developer International toolshed was Luis Robert. The ups and downs of Robert’s career probably make you understand the hype and also the downside of that hype (of course, any guy crowned the #1 prospect is going to get picked apart)
I’m gonna need an example of Luis Robert walking as much or striking out as little at any level as Made is currently doing in AA.
Jesus Made’s median outcome is comparable to Franklin Arias and Leo De Vries due to them all making contact at an above average rate with above average power for the position. The reason Made ranks higher is that he possesses superstar potential which the other two do not. He is an elite athlete who should end up with even more in-game power than he has shown thus far.
He’s not being ranked by his current performance, which is what ZiPS looks at. He’s being ranked based on scouting assessments of what his performance will be in the future.
Much of this is because he just turned 19. In three years out he’s still going to be a year and a half younger than JJ Wetherholt is now.
We are also increasingly learning that Statcast-type data is better for predicting major league hitting performance than minor league performance, at least partly because stadium effects in the minors are ridiculous. And his minor league data is fantastic.
I’m a little late so I’m not the first person to say it, but by the time I finished reading Cal Raleigh’s write-up, I didn’t feel convinced of his ranking at all. The inevitable decline probably should have pushed him into the 40s.
I don’t think anything he would return in a trade is close to what he could be. Reminds me of a dynasty fantasy sort of situation. You would get low balled to hell, and the chance of the return to form is worth just holding. No one is giving up where he falls in dynasty ranking equivalent…so you just have to hold. You understand the dynasty ranking (same here with ranking) but good luck getting that. They’d say I know, etc, recency bias etc would go against the internal models imo
Having watched lots of Basallo’s play this season, I’m super bullish his future performance. He’s significantly improved his blocking since last year, he has a cannon for an arm, and pitchers seem to be happy throwing to him; let the robots call the game and his framing is irrelevant. On offense, he definitely chases too much, but he also visibly makes in game adjustments when hitting. Glad the O’s have signed him up long-term, and I would not at all be surprised if he had a 280/350/550 season in there. It’s huge power.
I personally agree on Basallo and think he’s a top 20-25 trade value. Locked up for cheap in the prime years. Huge. He’s 21 (22 soon but still)! I think Basallo getting shopped has much better offers across the board than if Judge or even maybe Ohtani gets shopped.
I get the skepticism in the comments given how many catching prospects have gone wrong, but I am completely with you. He looks special to me.
The thing is, Basallo doesn’t even have to stick at catcher to end up being a pretty special player and an absolute bargain on his contract. I think people forget how special his bat was for how young he was coming up.
Gimme Geraldo Perdomo (rest of contract OR rest of career) over Zach Neto.
Effectively the same offense except Perdomo can pick it (like +10-15 runs better than Neto) and his offensive skill set doesn’t rely on “one cool trick.”
Basallo would have been an easy exclusion for me. That contract looks par to me, albeit with long tail potential for huge savings. Presently, he’s a below-average catcher with a swing-and-miss problem. The EVs look nice, but Big Christmas can say the same, and he barely exists anymore. That’s not a totally fair comp–Basallo is a full grade better on the whifftastrophe spectrum–but I do think it aptly illustrates the downside of this profile. He might not hit enough, and he might need to move off C. To me, both concerns are disqualifying for this list.
Put another way, if I was running the Brewers and decided to put Jesus Made on the block, I’d laugh at an offer of Basallo. Laugh and laugh and laugh some more.
I don’t know…If I were running the Brewers I would think pretty hard about a Basallo-Made trade. Eric has them both as 65 FV prospects. You might prefer one skillset over another, but I see the key differences as future value and high ceiling (Made) vs present value and high floor (Basallo).
I’d prefer Made but it’s awfully close. I said this in another comment but Basallo is a bit like Bryce Eldridge with a puncher’s chance of staying at catcher.
Whoa, what a boatload of work! Thank you! Five straight years? Incredible!
It seems like there are an exceptional number of good to all-star level players who are hurt and/or having and bad first 100 games this year.
The question of trade value is really how much teams value a given skillset plus contract and team control for the player. But in so many cases I don’t think we agree what the player skillset is. I think Cal Raleigh is an all-star catcher who even if he moves to DH 2/3 and C 1/3 rather than vice-versa in a couple of years has such a good bat that his contract is a huge bargain. BUT I recognize it’s possible we’re seeing the first evidence of him falling off a cliff and he’s simply a 2-3 WAR player going forward. FWIW, that’s essentially my take on all of the Padres with long term deals, while recognizing some bias due to fandom.
Likewise this is likely a flukey injury for Aaron Judge (or at least my sense) and he’s an 8-win player making only $40M. But this is hardly his first significant injury and maybe we’re seeing a decline in skills and health that makes him a 4 WAR player and OVERPAID from here on out.
I have just wasted some of the precious minutes I have left reading from many of the commenters who know baseball their various viewpoints about which defensive analysis system did what and why it was better or worse than the others. I came away with exactly the same opinion I have had since I began to read about FRV or DRS or OAA here at Fangraphs. Until there is some universal agreement, or even something closer than the wildly varying numbers that are spewed out, I will continue to use the eye test. What counts to me is consistency, range and, my pet test, the ability to handle the hot smash right at the feet. Dustin Pedroia set the standard and watching him snag one rocket after another was something to behold.
Interesting observation. Is Pedroia the best you’ve ever seen at dealing with those tweeners? I don’t recall him being particularly incredible with them, but then again it seems like no players are nowadays
tbf, “hot smash” EVs are up 5-10 mph from Pedroia’s heyday.