Centers of Attention: Carlos Beltrán and Andruw Jones Elected to the Hall of Fame

Robert Deutsch-USA TODAY NETWORK via Imagn Images and Jason Parkhurst-Imagn Images

The following article is part of Jay Jaffe’s ongoing look at the candidates on the BBWAA 2026 Hall of Fame ballot. For a detailed introduction to this year’s ballot, and other candidates in the series, use the tool above; an introduction to JAWS can be found here. For a tentative schedule, see here. All WAR figures refer to the Baseball Reference version unless otherwise indicated.

When it comes to center fielders and the Hall of Fame, BBWAA voters have been a particularly picky lot. It’s all too easy to say, “This guy was no Ty Cobb,” or “This guy was no Willie Mays.” Who can live up to standards like that? Until Tuesday, just nine center fielders had been elected by the writers, fewer than any other position, but when Josh Rawitch announced the results of the 2026 balloting, two more joined them: fourth-year candidate Carlos Beltrán and ninth-year candidate Andruw Jones.

Beltrán, a five-tool player with 2,725 career hits, 312 stolen bases and the no. 9 ranking among center fielders in JAWS, received 84.2% of the vote, up from 70.3% last year. He had to overcome some initial resistance to his candidacy owing to his involvement in the Astros’ illegal sign-stealing scandal at the end of his career while helping the Astros win the 2017 World Series. Commissioner Rob Manfred’s 2020 report placed him at the center of Houston’s scheme, and it cost him his job as Mets skipper before he could manage a single game. Despite his transgression, he received 46.5% of the vote in his 2023 ballot debut, and followed with three straight years of double-digit gains.

Jones, who hit 434 homers, won 10 Gold Gloves as the defensive centerpiece of the Braves’ playoff dynasty, and ranks 11th among center fielders in JAWS (and first in fielding runs), received 78.4% of the vote, up from 66.2% last year. Roughly speaking, it’s a coin toss as to whether candidates within 10 points of the magic 75% make up the distance in one year or two, and in his case, the coin came up heads. Which isn’t to say it was all smooth sailing. Jones was amazing in his 20s, but his career fell apart in his 30s. He played his last game in the majors at age 35 in 2012, with an arrest for battery against his then-wife, and his subsequent guilty plea to a lesser disorderly conduct charge, contributing to his disappearance from the majors and giving some voters pause.

Setting that aside — and understandably, not every voter was willing to do so — Jones finished his career with just 1,933 hits. Until Tuesday, the writers hadn’t elected anyone with fewer than 2,000 hits since 1975, when Ralph Kiner (1,451 hits in a career delayed by World War II) got the nod. The writers had bypassed every candidate from the post-1960 era with fewer than 2,000 hits, though Era Committees have recently elected Dick Allen, Gil Hodges, and Tony Oliva. Additionally, Jones debuted on an especially crowded ballot in 2018, one from which 11 players have since been elected, nine by the writers; he received just 7.3% of the vote that year, so in crossing the 75% threshold, he set a record. More on that topic below.

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This is the first time since 2009 that two players at the same primary position (besides pitchers) were elected by the writers in the same year. That year, first-time candidate Rickey Henderson and 15th-year candidate Jim Rice were both elected. In more ways than one, they don’t make ’em like that anymore.

Here’s a look at the writers’ history of electing center fielders:

BBWAA-Elected Center Fielders
Player Year YoB Pct
Ty Cobb 1936 1 98.2%*
Tris Speaker 1937 2 82.1%
Joe DiMaggio 1955 4** 88.8%
Mickey Mantle 1974 1 88.2%
Willie Mays 1979 1 94.7%
Duke Snider 1980 11 86.5%
Kirby Puckett 2001 1 82.1%
Andre Dawson 2010 9 77.9%
Ken Griffey Jr. 2016 1 99.3%*
Carlos Beltrán 2026 4 84.2%
Andruw Jones 2026 9 78.4%
Source: Baseball-Reference
* = Set record for highest voting share. ** = Five-year waiting period introduced in 1954; DiMaggio was grandfathered into eligibility.

Cobb headed the original 1936 class, outdoing even Babe Ruth (95.1%) but — audible sigh — his being left off four ballots helped to create the “tradition” of non-unanimity that stood until Mariano Rivera ran the table in 2019. For as ridiculous as it was that Mays was left off of 23 ballots (don’t get me started), his share was the highest since those of Cobb, Ruth, and Honus Wagner (95.1%) in 1936.

What follows here are a few quick take-home points from the electoral results. I’ll have a candidate-by-candidate breakdown in my next installment.

Giant Leaps… Toward Cooperstown?

Chase Utley was the only other candidate to cross the 50% threshold, reaching 59.1% in just his third year on the ballot, strongly suggesting he’s got a future in Cooperstown. And as voters debated how to handle starting pitchers in an age of reduced workloads and increasingly remote milestones, Andy Pettitte (48.5% in his eighth year of eligibility) and Félix Hernández (46.1% in his second) both surged as well. Their shares suggest they’ll eventually be elected, whether by the writers or an Era Committee to be named later.

What’s more, all three of those candidates landed on the leaderboard for the largest year-to-year jumps in voting share since the writers returned to annual balloting in 1967, with Hernández barely setting a record:

Largest 1-Year Gains on BBWAA Ballot Since 1967
Rk Player Yr0 Pct0 Yr1 Pct1 Gain
1 Félix Hernández 2025 20.6% 2026 46.1% 25.56%
2 Luis Aparicio+ 1982 41.9% 1983 67.4% 25.45%
3 Barry Larkin+ 2011 62.1% 2012 86.4% 24.3%
4 Gil Hodges+ 1969 24.1% 1970 48.3% 24.2%
5 Nellie Fox+ 1975 21.0% 1976 44.8% 23.8%
6 Hal Newhouser+ 1974 20.0% 1975 42.8% 22.8%
7 Jim Rice+ 1999 29.4% 2000 51.5% 22.1%
8 Don Drysdale+ 1976 29.4% 1977 51.4% 22.1%
9 Larry Walker+ 2019 54.6% 2020 76.6% 22.0%
10 Vladimir Guerrero+ 2017 71.7% 2018 92.9% 21.2%
11 Andy Pettitte 2025 27.9% 2026 48.5% 20.6%
12 Larry Walker+ 2018 34.1% 2019 54.6% 20.5%
13 Todd Helton+ 2022 52.0% 2023 72.2% 20.2%
14 Johnny Sain 1974 14.0% 1975 34.0% 20.0%
15 Early Wynn+ 1970 46.7% 1971 66.7% 20.0%
16 Chase Utley 2025 39.8% 2026 59.8% 19.3%
17 Minnie Minoso+ 1985 1.8% 1986 20.9% 19.1%
18 Phil Cavarretta 1974 16.7% 1975 35.6% 18.9%
19 Early Wynn+ 1969 27.9% 1970 46.7% 18.8%
20 Yogi Berra+ 1971 67.2% 1972 85.6% 18.4%
+ = Hall of Famer

That trio pushed a pair of back-to-back jumps by Scott Rolen out of the top 20. He went from 17.2% in 2019 to 35.3% in ’20 (a gain of 18.1%), and then to 52.9% in ’21 (a gain of 17.6%) — more than tripling his support in that span and turning him from a long shot into a likely honoree.

With Beltrán, Jones, and Utley the only candidates to reach 50%, this was the first time so few did so since 2000, when second-year candidate Carlton Fisk, ninth-year candidate Tony Perez, and sixth-year candidate Jim Rice were the only ones to do so, with Fisk and Perez both elected.

Biggest Comebacks, Re-Re-Revisited

While he was part of the famous triumvirate of superstar center fielders from New York City baseball teams in the 1950s along with Mickey Mantle and Mays, Duke Snider didn’t get the respect he deserved upon landing on the BBWAA ballot in 1970, four years ahead of the former and seven ahead of the latter. He received just 17% of the vote, and as noted above, it took him until 1980, his 11th year on the ballot (of what was then a 15-year eligibility window) to surpass 75%. Until 2023, that stood as the biggest comeback of any BBWAA-elected candidate, but with Jones’ election, candidates have surpassed Snider’s low mark in each of the past four years. Again, Jones now has the record for the biggest comeback:

Lowest First-Year Voting Percentages
of BBWAA-Elected Players
Player Year % Year Elected YoB
Andruw Jones 2018 7.3% 2026 9
Scott Rolen 2018 10.2% 2023 6
Billy Wagner 2016 10.5% 2025 10
Todd Helton 2019 16.5% 2024 6
Duke Snider 1970 17.0% 1980 11
Bert Blyleven 1998 17.5% 2011 14
Larry Walker 2011 20.31% 2020 10
Mike Mussina 2014 20.32% 2019 6

Seven of those eight lowest first-year percentages are from the past 16 years, within the timespan that I’ve been covering Hall of Fame elections. Overcrowded ballots caused some of these candidates to slip through the cracks the first time around, but tools like JAWS and Ryan Thibodaux’s Tracker have helped cue voters that it’s worth taking another look… or nine.

This Time, the First Time Isn’t the Charm

As The Athletic’s Jayson Stark pointed out last week, in the last 12 cycles before this one (2014–25), BBWAA voters elected 18 first-year candidates, the most of any 12-year span in Hall history. The only cycles within that span that lacked one came in 2021, when the writers didn’t elect anybody, and ’23, when Rolen, a sixth-year candidate, was the only honoree.

Now we have a third such instance within a six-year span. Usually when this happens, it’s a single holdover breaking through, but this time it’s a pair. Prior to Tuesday, the last time multiple holdovers were elected without a first-year candidate joining them was in 2011, when second-year candidate Roberto Alomar and 14th-year candidate Bert Blyleven made it. In the last 40 years, the only other times that’s happened were in 1987 (third-year candidate Catfish Hunter and sixth-year candidate Billy Williams) and 2000 (Fisk and Perez).

Underlying this was the reality that this was a particularly weak class of first-year candidates from a Hall standpoint, with Cole Hamels and Ryan Braun the only ones with a JAWS above 33.0 — which is to say the only ones within 20 points of the standards at their respective positions. With Braun’s candidacy hamstrung by both his short career and two suspensions for violating the game’s drug policy (the first of which was overturned by an arbitrator), he received just 3.5%, knocking him off the ballot, leaving Hamels (23.8%) as the only second-year holdover for 2027. The last time such a thing happened was in 2012, when Bernie Williams was the only first-timer to make the cut, receiving just 9.6%. When the deluge of strong and controversial first-year candidates (Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens et al.) arrived the next year, Williams dropped to 3.3% and fell off the ballot. Hamels is at least in much better shape than that.

The Electorate Grows, the Ballot Shrinks

A total of 425 ballots were cast during this cycle, an increase of nearly 8% over last year and the first time since 2012 that at least 400 votes have been cast. Driven by an influx of MLB.com writers and editors (more on which below), this was the largest electorate since 2019 (also 425), though it fell far short of the high of 581 ballots, set in ’11. The Hall’s decision to sunset voters more than 10 years removed from active coverage decreased the size of the electorate from 549 voters in 2015 to 440 in ’16, and it’s been slowly dwindling since then, with industry trends — layoffs, closures, ill-considered pivots to video — contributing to the decline.

This was a comparatively weak ballot in general, with just three candidates meeting the JAWS standard at their respective positions, the lowest total since 2006, and just six with a JAWS of 50.0 or higher (40.0 or higher for catchers), the lowest total since ’08. Given that landscape, the voters used just 5.77 slots per ballot, 1.0 fewer than last year, and the lowest average since 2012, but not far off from a couple of other recent cycles. This was the second time within that 15-cycle span that the number of blank ballots reached double digits:

Recent BBWAA Ballot Trends
Year Votes Votes Per Ballot All 10 Elected Blank
2012 573 5.10 N/A 1 9
2013 569 6.60 22% 0 5
2014 571 8.39 50% 3 1
2015 549 8.42 51% 4 1
2016 440 7.95 41.6% 2 N/A
2017 442 8.17 45.2% 3 2
2018 422 8.46 50.0% 4 1
2019 425 8.01 42.8% 4 0
2020 397 6.61 20.5% 2 N/A
2021 401 5.87 14.5% 0 14
2022 394 7.11 33.8% 1 6
2023 389 5.86 13.9% 1 8
2024 385 7.00 24.4% 3 0
2025 394 6.77 24.9% 3 0
2026 425 5.77 20.9% 2 11
Source: Baseball-Reference
“All 10” and blank ballot figures via BBWAA. Yellow shading = modern record (since 1966).

New Kids on the Bloc

One of the key factors shaping the results this year was the influx of new voters. In 2015, the BBWAA voted to admit MLB.com writers and editors into the organization, and now, with 10 years under their belt, they’re eligible to vote. According to the folks at the Tracker, at the outset of this cycle, as many as 40 or even 50 new voters were expected to join the rolls, with about 25 of those coming from MLB.com. Those estimates may have been low, because as of 6 PM ET on Tuesday, 37 first-time voters had published their ballots, as many as there were in 2024 and ’25 combined.

Perhaps even more interesting is how consistently those newcomers voted for the most favored candidates. All 37 included Beltrán, and all but three included Jones, helping to push them across the finish line. They gave Utley and Hernández more than 75% of their votes, and helped several other candidates set new highs as well:

New Public Voters vs. The Field
Player New (37) Others (388) Dif
Félix Hernández 75.7% 43.3% +32.4%
Cole Hamels 51.4% 21.1% +30.2%
Bobby Abreu 56.8% 28.4% +28.4%
Chase Utley 83.8% 56.7% +27.1%
Andy Pettitte 70.3% 46.4% +23.9%
Mark Buehrle 40.5% 18.0% +22.5%
Carlos Beltrán 100.0% 82.7% +17.3%
Andruw Jones 91.9% 77.1% +14.8%
Dustin Pedroia 29.7% 19.8% +9.9%
David Wright 21.6% 14.2% +7.4%
Manny Ramírez 40.5% 38.7% +1.9%
Álex Rodríguez 40.5% 39.9% +0.6%
Gio González 0.0% 0.0% +0.0%
Howie Kendrick 0.0% 0.0% +0.0%
Daniel Murphy 0.0% 0.0% +0.0%
Alex Gordon 0.0% 0.3% -0.3%
Nick Markakis 0.0% 0.3% -0.3%
Matt Kemp 0.0% 0.5% -0.5%
Hunter Pence 0.0% 0.5% -0.5%
Rick Porcello 0.0% 0.5% -0.5%
Torii Hunter 8.1% 8.8% -0.7%
Shin-Soo Choo 0.0% 0.8% -0.8%
Francisco Rodríguez 10.8% 11.9% -1.0%
Edwin Encarnación 0.0% 1.5% -1.5%
Ryan Braun 0.0% 3.9% -3.9%
Jimmy Rollins 13.5% 26.5% -13.0%
Omar Vizquel 5.4% 19.6% -14.2%
Source: tracker.fyi

With the Tracker likely to add something on the order of another 100 ballots over the next couple of weeks, those percentages will shift and probably converge. But for now, wow!

Everybody Gains

As was the case in my year-to-year comparisons of our crowdsourced balloting, every returning candidate received a higher share from the voters in 2026 than in ’25 — even Hunter, the only candidate who lost ground from the writers (and our crowd) last year. Eleven candidates did receive less than 5% and are ineligible for further consideration by the BBWAA, none of whom were surprises; three were shut out. Ramirez has aged off the ballot after a 10-year run, unable to escape the impact of his two suspensions. Six holdovers posted double-digit gains:

2026 BBWAA Hall of Fame Voting Results
Player YOB Votes 2026% 2025% Change
Carlos Beltrán 4 358 84.2% 70.3% +13.9%
Andruw Jones 9 333 78.4% 66.2% +12.2%
Chase Utley 3 251 59.1% 39.8% +19.3%
Andy Pettitte 8 206 48.5% 27.9% +20.6%
Félix Hernández 2 196 46.1% 20.6% +25.5%
Alex Rodriguez 5 170 40.0% 37.1% +2.9%
Manny Ramirez* 10 165 38.8% 34.3% +4.5%
Bobby Abreu 7 131 30.8% 19.5% +11.3%
Jimmy Rollins 5 108 25.4% 18.0% +7.4%
Cole Hamels 1 101 23.8%
Dustin Pedroia 2 88 20.7% 11.9% +8.8%
Mark Buehrle 6 85 20.0% 11.4% +8.6%
Omar Vizquel 9 78 18.4% 17.8% +0.6%
David Wright 3 63 14.8% 8.1% +6.7%
Francisco Rodríguez 4 50 11.8% 10.2% +1.6%
Torii Hunter 6 37 8.7% 5.1% +3.6%
Ryan Braun* 1 15 3.5%
Edwin Encarnación* 1 6 1.4%
Shin-Soo Choo* 1 3 0.7%
Matt Kemp* 1 2 0.5%
Hunter Pence* 1 2 0.5%
Rick Porcello* 1 2 0.5%
Alex Gordon* 1 1 0.2%
Nick Markakis* 1 1 0.2%
Gio González* 1 0 0.0%
Howie Kendrick* 1 0 0.0%
Daniel Murphy* 1 0 0.0%
Source: BBWAA.com
* ineligible for future consideration on BBWAA ballots.

I’ll have a look at what these results mean for each candidate in my next installment.





Brooklyn-based Jay Jaffe is a senior writer for FanGraphs, the author of The Cooperstown Casebook (Thomas Dunne Books, 2017) and the creator of the JAWS (Jaffe WAR Score) metric for Hall of Fame analysis. He founded the Futility Infielder website (2001), was a columnist for Baseball Prospectus (2005-2012) and a contributing writer for Sports Illustrated (2012-2018). He has been a recurring guest on MLB Network and a member of the BBWAA since 2011, and a Hall of Fame voter since 2021. Follow him on BlueSky @jayjaffe.bsky.social.

61 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
OnWI1933Member since 2016
6 months ago

Congrats to both players!

And look at Utley. Very promising. And pitchers taking steps forward

Very cool all around

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
6 months ago
Reply to  OnWI1933

Hamels should be up there higher than he is

pepper69funMember since 2020
6 months ago

Very glad Jones made it. Tremendous fielder and big power. Key player in the Braves run.

frankenspock
6 months ago
Reply to  pepper69fun

That’s Dodger Legend Andruw Jones, thank you very much.

pepper69funMember since 2020
6 months ago
Reply to  frankenspock

How he played for Dodgers is obviously the key to his career. My bad

JimmieFoxxalorianMember since 2020
6 months ago

Nice to see Beltran get the call! Such a phenomenal all-around performer and the main character of many memorable postseason moments.

It was quite unfair that his managerial career never even got a chance to begin, whereas other managers who were suspended are still managing today as if that time was simply a 1-year blip on their career radar

Last edited 6 months ago by JimmieFoxxalorian
Jason BMember since 2017
6 months ago

I think he’ll get a chance at some point. These things fade over time, as the righteous indignation settles in to a low din.

mconsultatlMember since 2020
6 months ago
Reply to  Jason B

Yeah part of me is surprised that it hasn’t happened allready. I wonder if wants to manage after the experience? Or maybe the hof election helps put a bookend to the episode.

To be clear I care about sign stealing and it’s a black mark on him and the astros, but people been stealing signs forever so my righteous anger is only a low simmer. And other than that he seemed to be a good clubhouse person and overall good guy. So I’m glad he got in.

slz
6 months ago

Good to see both Jones and Beltran make it. Both deserved in and both deserved in earlier.

Utley being on track is good, too. He’s a HOFer.

I dont know about Felix. HOF talent who burned out too early IMO. I think he’s comparable to David Wright or even, like, Fernando Valenzuela. He’s not the guy I would have break the “new age” pitcher barrier with

Same for Pettitte. Weird guy to have break the steroids barrier. Just because he said he was sorry?

frankenspock
6 months ago
Reply to  slz

My problem with the analysis I’ve seen of Felix possibly ushering in the “new era” of assessing HoF pitchers is that the examples that people use as supposedly being impossible in the future to match, guys like Verlander, Scherzer, Kershaw, are all guys who are contemporaneous with Felix and a few years after in the latter two’s cases. And Hernandez just doesn’t match up to those guys, in either counting stats or efficiency. He was decently durable and hit 200 IP eight straight seasons at one point, so the argument that he gets a handicap for playing in the wrong era rings super hollow to me.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
6 months ago
Reply to  frankenspock

Yep.

It’s far more reasonable for a serious person to vote Hamels and Buehrle over Felix than the reverse.

BacterunMember since 2025
6 months ago

I’ve discovered I’m more of a small to mid hall person who would be unlikely the vote for any of those three pitchers, but it feels like Felix has the better narrative. At no point during Hamels or Buehrles career were they really considered to be in the conversation for best starting pitcher. Felix on the other hand did have times when he was talked about as the best (obviously has that Cy young as well) which I feel is the main thing that separates his candidacy from the other two. With all that said if I had to vote for 1 of them it would be Buehrle because I could usually count on him to get through a game fast enough for me to get to bed at a decent hour, plus that 2010 backhanded/backwards defensive play on the 1st base line after bouncing the ball off his flailing leg is a joy to watch.

SportszillaMember since 2017
6 months ago

Explain to me how it’s “far more reasonable” for a “serious person” to vote for guys who were never as good as Félix at their respective peaks but pitched for longer. You might personally prefer longevity to peak, but that’s far from the only reasonable approach to the Hall.

sandwiches4everMember since 2019
6 months ago

Can’t decide whether I’m unreasonable or not serious. Maybe both?

slz
6 months ago

Hamels does nothing for me. Standard very good LHP career who was just under the bar

The eye test with Buehrle was very impressive. Always outpitched what you’d expect out of him right to the end of his career and would always give you a ton of innings. Is that a Hall of Famer? I can see why Peak guys would be upset if he made it and Felix and Johan didnt. He feels closer to me

slz
6 months ago
Reply to  frankenspock

This is why I compared him to Wright. Both are one team franchise legends with near impeccable reputations who did have HOF talent but the problem is they werent like, Mike Trout-Shohei Ohtani HOF talents. They were clear enough of the bar that as long as they had full careers, they were gonna get in.

…And then neither had a full career. Wright’s back gave out. So did Felix’s arm. I dont think anyone would be super upset if either guy made it but that’s kind of where the argument is for me. They’re sentiment picks. But if you view it coldly, was either’s career better than pre-steroids Barry Bonds?

PC1970Member since 2024
6 months ago
Reply to  slz

What we don’t know is if Pettitte & Felix will continue to get more support.

It is possible that all of the “Big Hall” people that were willing to vote for them did so this cycle due to the weak ballot & the rest of the voters just won’t be swayed.I think that may be especially true for Pettitte, with the steroid taint.

Remember Clemens & Bonds got into the 60’s, but, the other 35-40% were NEVER going to vote for them.

Last edited 6 months ago by PC1970
Left of Centerfield
6 months ago
Reply to  PC1970

Also seems that a lot of the jumps this year were due to mlb.com. So several candidates got a one-time boost, but it’s not clear where additional support will come from.

descender
6 months ago
Reply to  slz

The combination of coming forward and admitting it, apologizing, and it not being used to turn him into Superman… and not breaking any hallowed records. Plenty of ways to forgive Pettitte.

Pirates HurdlesMember since 2024
6 months ago
Reply to  descender

I am pretty shocked at the Pettitte jump. Hard to follow the cognitive dissonance to put Pettitte in and still exclude Clemens.

TKDCMember since 2016
6 months ago

Pettitte not only admitted using and apologized but he did so when denials would have conceivably worked. That’s just such a rarity not only in baseball but just in public life generally.

joelbarlow
6 months ago
Reply to  slz

for some reason its become very important to put SPs in and Felix is a media darling somehow. I think entirely because bloggers gave him a nickname in like 2007

kevbren849
6 months ago
Reply to  slz

Break the steroids barrier? We’re gonna pretend they haven’t already done that with guys like Piazza, Ortiz and Pudge?

sandwiches4everMember since 2019
6 months ago
Reply to  kevbren849

Well, I am at least. Certainly in regards to Piazza/Pudge, anyway.

Barney Coolio
6 months ago

Your comment is missing quite a few words. Are you saying that you believe that Piazza/Pudge are more or less likely to have done steroids than Ortiz?

TKDCMember since 2016
6 months ago
Reply to  Barney Coolio

I assume less likely as they did not fail a test and just have a commissioner give some vague “pass” on his failure without even a bit of discussion on what that meant for 100 other people on the list.

Veeck as in BeckMember since 2024
6 months ago

May 14 1999, we skipped our classes and drove from Iowa City to Chicago to catch a Braves game at Wrigley on Friday afternoon. 2:20 start, 65 and sunny. We got there early, picked up some bleacher tickets, and watched BP. Andruw Jones was shagging flies and putting on a show for us – catching them behind the back, enjoying our heckling. At one point he turned around, made eye contact, started to toss the ball to us before smirking and turning away. We ate it up.

I think that’s my only interaction with a Hall of Famer – something I couldn’t have said when the day started. We went to a ton of games in 1998 and 99 – those were some memorable summers!

drewsylvaniaMember since 2019
6 months ago

MLB knew about steroids and aided it. Lots of people did them, so the playing field was not nearly as leveraged as, say, illegally ID’ing pitches in the World Series.

Last edited 6 months ago by drewsylvania
drewsylvaniaMember since 2019
6 months ago
Reply to  drewsylvania

MLB bans bettors for life, while cheating that directly and significantly impacted the World Series in the winners’ favor, gets enshrined.

Keeping Shoeless Joe out and putting Beltran in.

Make it make sense.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
6 months ago
Reply to  drewsylvania

A) There’s nothing worse than throwing a game.

B) Shoeless Joe should be in.

C) The Astros kept cheating after Beltran was gone…and they’re not about to ban Crane.

drewsylvaniaMember since 2019
6 months ago

So, Beltran should be in the Hall?

I mean, what he did was the same as throwing a game, except in his team’s favor. Why is that more acceptable?

Lastly–the people who kept the cheating going should also not be in the Hall.

Last edited 6 months ago by drewsylvania
PC1970Member since 2024
6 months ago
Reply to  drewsylvania

I guess Willie Mays shouldn’t be in then.

He was on the 1951 Giants, who stole signs to spur their late season surge over the Dodgers. Assuming he took advantage of that, should be out, too?

How about Gaylord Perry?

Babe Ruth used a corked bat, toss him out, too?

drewsylvaniaMember since 2019
6 months ago
Reply to  PC1970

This Week in False Equivalencies.

pepper69funMember since 2020
6 months ago
Reply to  drewsylvania

FYI. Putting Jackson (accepted gambler money in actually throwing a World Series) into same breath as Beltrán (used every edge to win a World Series) shows how completely ridiculous your take is. Even biased morons know that deliberately losing is a crime vastly beyond what Beltrán is accused of.

drewsylvaniaMember since 2019
6 months ago
Reply to  pepper69fun

Not worth taking the time or effort to explain how wrong and in how many ways this comment is.

sandwiches4everMember since 2019
6 months ago
Reply to  drewsylvania

The rule against betting is red-line, clear as day, and has existed for many, many years, so, no, I don’t feel the least bit bad about Rose, Marcano, and (what likely appears to be) Clase.

As much as I despise the Astros and still feel personally cheated as a Yanks fan, I still think Beltran deserves to be in the HOF. I view 2017 as an impermissible extension of the gamesmanship of sign-stealing. Honest question: if Manfred had vacated the hunk of metal 2017 World Series win, does that change your opinion?

Shoeless Joe…well, that’s complicated.

drewsylvaniaMember since 2019
6 months ago

It might. I just don’t think we should be enshrining the ringleaders of the very direct and obvious cheating.

Also, just because the rule of “bet on baseball = permaban” has been there forever, is not an argument for whether or not what Beltran et al should be barred from the Hall.

drewsylvaniaMember since 2019
6 months ago
Reply to  drewsylvania

I will assume downvoters are homers unless an counterargument is actually offered.

pepper69funMember since 2020
6 months ago
Reply to  drewsylvania

Actually, most of the down voters just think you are wrong. It’s painfully obvious that absolutely nothing on face of this earth would change your mind, too. Why bother a debate, which implies YOU are willing to change YOUR opinion? You aren’t. I’m sure you will come back and say you are, but with both know you aren’t. You’re just going to rant more, mock whatever gets said, and maintain your original position. Witness you already attacking the credibility of folks who disagree with your “homers” remark. How about folks been stealing signs and signaling batters for over 100 years, so some of us don’t put this on a par with PEDs or gambling. The only thing illegal is using a video. I find that an asinine rule. Teams routinely use video to break down pitchers for pitch tipping. What’s the difference? Why is one legal and one not? Must be a real homer to know the former means a player should be blackballed forever and the latter to be applauded? How about I don’t like the way the character clause is being applied and so I pretty much just ignore it like hundreds of actual HOF voters also pretty much ignore it? Perhaps I don’t think Astros sign gate has diddly to do with the body of work Beltrán put forth on the field. I’m a Braves fan. I wasn’t personally impacted by this issue either way, so I feel pretty neutral. I can’t possibly be a homer. So, there goes your bias theory, too.

FrodoBeck
6 months ago
Reply to  pepper69fun

“The only thing illegal is using a video”

That word illegal has a meaning and matters here, btw

pepper69funMember since 2020
6 months ago
Reply to  FrodoBeck

True. But crimes have varying levels of severity. There’s murder and there’s jaywalking.

FrodoBeck
6 months ago
Reply to  pepper69fun

If we’re selecting for something called the Hall of Fame and it’s the highest honor in the sport, we can be picky.

Plus, I wouldn’t say the analogy of Steroids:Murder::Stealing Signs illegally:Jaywalking is accurate

The way the Astros stole signs was more akin to embezzlement or a similar white collar crime. We can still put them in prison and not let the instigators get into the Hall of Fame

drewsylvaniaMember since 2019
6 months ago
Reply to  FrodoBeck

Exactly. And why should a white-collar crime be necessarily punished less than a blue-collar one?

drewsylvaniaMember since 2019
6 months ago
Reply to  pepper69fun

This is a long screed of uselessness, since you’re riding your own invented narrative throughout it.

frankenspock
6 months ago

Pedroia getting that many votes in his second year is crazy. Not a shot he makes it, but Hamels is the only one close to him and below him are a lot of guys who aren’t getting in.

JuuuustAnotherBaseballFanMember since 2018
6 months ago
Reply to  frankenspock

I’d like to think it’s the David Wright effect. Oh what could have been, that sort of thing. I don’t think he’ll be getting in either no matter how whimsical people are.

Last edited 6 months ago by JuuuustAnotherBaseballFan
Thatguy47
6 months ago

Both solid selections, with Beltran a bit more of a lowend guy but deserving. Utley another obviously deserving guy more than his WAR indicates, as he fits criterion for being undervalued by WAR (elite peak, stable vs variable performance over a number of years with clear decline as GM’s like Dipoto try to plan around hitting win totals to get into playoffs). Gets in w/in next 2 years especially w/ thin ballots and momentum.

Less certain about Felix/Hamels/Pettitte, especially Pettitte. Good not great pitcher w/ like one especially great year (1997). Was mostly a 3-4 win guy especially under RA/9 WAR. Hamels fares better than Felix by that measure by a margin w/ Felix’s peak somewhat better but both are iffy. Jeff Kent was a brutal selection too. Seems standards are falling a bit but maybe thin ballots are just getting people excited. Great player but Pedroia on a possible hof path is wild.

PC1970Member since 2024
6 months ago
Reply to  Thatguy47

I wonder, esp with the MLB.com voters, if there is not a self-interest in voting for more players from certain corners of the media.

It creates more interest, more discussion & more players getting in drives more activity around induction day, too. All of which drive clicks.

Not saying that’s 100% the reason or there is some directive to do so, but, even subconsciously it could happen.

descender
6 months ago
Reply to  Thatguy47

Pettitte’s HOF credentials start on October 1st.

sandwiches4everMember since 2019
6 months ago
Reply to  descender

That doesn’t really help. His postseason resume is not nearly as good as his reputation. It’s 276IP of 3.81 ERA (almost a dead ringer for his regular season ERA). There’s more than a little “Jack Morris effect” here because of his Game 5 start in the 96 series.

Willians Astu-stu-studilloMember since 2020
6 months ago
Reply to  Thatguy47

Judging a guy who played in front of those Yankee defenses based on RA/9 WAR is really unfair.

grandbranyanMember since 2017
6 months ago

05-15 Felix (2,262 IP)
77 ERA- | 78 FIP-
54.9 rWAR | 52.4 fWAR
[prime Felix topped MLB in both WARs for an eleven season stretch]

10-25 Sale (2,084 IP)
71 ERA- | 69 FIP-
58.6 rWAR | 57.6 WAR
[five extra seasons for Sale, 182 fewer IP, but better on a per IP basis]

13-24 Cole (1,954 IP)
79 ERA- | 77 FIP-
46.3 rWAR | 45.9 rWAR
[peripherals about as close as it gets, but still 308 IP short of prime Felix in two extra seasons]

13-25 Wheeler (1,728 IP)
81 ERA- | 80 FIP-
40.0 rWAR | 41.2 fWAR
[started too late, ended too early but had a Top Ten age 28-35 run among pitchers during the Thirty Team Era]

14-25 deGrom (1,539 IP)
66 ERA- | 66 FIP-
48.5 rWAR | 46.4 fWAR
[the ultimate low quantity test case would be an easy yes for me on account of the sheer dominance]

16-25 Snell (1,158 IP)
77 ERA- | 79 FIP-
30.0 rWAR | 26.4 fWAR
[peripherals preeettty close, IP not so much]

17-25 Fried (1,079 IP)
72 ERA- | 78 FIP-
28.5 rWAR | 23.7 fWAR
[if Max approximates something like this kind of production over the final seven years on his contract he’ll have a pretty interesting case]

19-25 Webb (1,062 IP)
82 ERA- | 75 FIP-
21.9 rWAR | 24.4 fWAR
[more durable, but way less FIP beating version of Fried]

20-25 Burnes (881 IP)
69 ERA- | 74 FIP-
25.0 rWAR | 22.5 fWAR
[only deGrom and Sale have better peripherals, but much harder to stack dominant quantity nowadays]

22-25 Skubal (585 IP)
65 ERA- | 61 FIP-
17.9 rWAR | 18.8 fWAR
[nice start, but could be another Wheeler with his first truly dominant season coming at age 27]

Guys like Crochet (351 IP of 72 ERA- | 66 FIP-), Sanchez (383 IP of 68 ERA- | 67 FIP-) and of course Skenes (320 IP of 46 ERA- | 59 FIP-) have had a nice couple years here, but how much longer can they keep it up for?

2,000 plus innings with an ERA-/FIP- below 80 is something very few pitchers debuting from 2015 onward are likely to ever come close to.

TKDCMember since 2016
6 months ago
Reply to  grandbranyan

It does help the ~age 30 crowd that they missed most of 2020 and could miss most/all of 2027.

FrodoBeck
6 months ago

I guess I’ll be the one to bring up trash cans and say it’s a disgrace that Beltran is in. Cheated in a demonstrable way that impacted a World Series outcome, and wasn’t just a guy along for the ride but was pivotal in implementing it.

Doesn’t matter much because the Hall is already a weird thing given the absence of some of baseball’s biggest names, but thought that the writers may choose to do the obvious thing and exclude another cheater, given their propensity to do so in other cases.

SenorGato
6 months ago
Reply to  FrodoBeck

Just pretend he’s a Job Creator cheating and do the usual ‘Merican mental gymnastics for why that’s Actually Good even Smert. He was just being quirky, eccentric, and thinking outside the box like all greats do

Willians Astu-stu-studilloMember since 2020
6 months ago
Reply to  FrodoBeck

Agreed. What’s even the point of having the character clause anymore? Obviously there was the cheating, and personally I feel that subjecting Yankees fans to his absolutely godawful announcing should count against him somehow.

SenorGato
6 months ago

These guys have to have two of the highest $/WAR in HoF history, no? My analysis: overpaidz!

tunglashrMember since 2016
6 months ago

I watched Carlos Beltran a lot and never thought to myself ‘that is a HOFer.’ Looking at his numbers now, though, he deserves it.

Jason ScottMember since 2024
6 months ago

I hate the blank ballots that impact everyone negatively. They shouldn’t count – and, if you are a voter who sends in a blank ballot two years in a row, you should be excluded from voting for two years, since your standards aren’t being met.

Dmjn53
6 months ago

I continue to be confounded as to why Omar Visquel gets enough votes every year to remain on the ballot, and how somehow more people voted for him than David Wright

dswhiteMember since 2026
6 months ago

you misspelled Beltran in the title